Talk:Ireland national football team (FAI)

Comments from User:Djln
Hi Fashion Icon, Can you please stop reediting Ireland national football team (FAI) with incorrect and irrelevant info. This team did represent all-Ireland and regularly included Northern Irish players. You have failed to indicate why you think did it not represent all-Ireland.

The Irish FA successfully appealed the decision and were allowed to retain the right to field a team called Ireland, with players drawn throughout Ireland in the non-FIFA regulated British Home Championship 

The statement above is incorrect and is more about Ireland national football team (IFA) anyway so should not be included. The IFA stopped using players from the Republic of Ireland after 1950. Djln--Djln 17:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * In what way is the above statement incorrect? The Fashion Icon 17:53, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The IFA lost the right to select players from the Republic of Ireland and only retained the right to use the name Ireland. However the main reason it should not be included is because of what I said above – it is more about the IFA team. This article is about the FAI team. Plus why do insist on inserting claimed to represent... . This was a legitimate all-Ireland team recognised by FIFA. Djln--Djln 21:42, 10 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I know you have an issue with FIFA regulating international football,, perhaps if you would give a context for your claims it might be easier for me to understand your position. I also find it confusing having three distinct threads contained in one rant, perhaps if you were to split up each argument into seperate sections it would be easier to follow, in the interim, I have revertd to the concensus version The Fashion Icon 13:36, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Removed following
 * at a time when the Irish FA and the other home nations had withdrawn from FIFA. Used in reference to 1923. IFA did not leave FIFA until 1928. Djln--Djln 21:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I am sorry you are not capable of following three threads of an argument at once. Perhaps before you start reediting articles you should get your facts correct first and maybe get to grips with multi-tasking ! On what grounds do you declare your version the consensus one ? I have written the core of this article and unlike you I have done research.
 * inserting claimed to represent implies this team is less valid then Ireland national football team (IFA). If you don't think it was representative, then explain why and your opinion can be included.
 * The Irish FA successfully appealed the decision and were allowed to retain the right to field a team called Ireland, with players drawn throughout Ireland in the non-FIFA regulated British Home Championship. This section is about the IFA team and does not need to be mentioned here.
 * The above para also misleadingly implies that IFA team selected players from the Republic after 1950. Djln--Djln 21:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thankyou for making your points in a clear and concise way.
 * on your first point, regarding the Irish FAs membership of FIFA, throughout the early days of the organisation the home nations withdrew quite often, the 1928 split being the most significant, however this was only one of many
 * The very reason "claimed" is inserted is because the clains are not equal, the Irish FA had a significant history of representing Ireland, it played in the most prestigious tournament at the time. The FAI team never commanded the following of fans as an Ireland team. Most importantly it never selcted players across the Island, with the exception of the Iberian tour, in the same way that Ireland did, restricting itself to free-state players, Brits and 3rd rate Northerners.
 * The concept of competing claims is one of the main threads of this article, and the final outcome, as well as the demise of this branding exercise should be included
 * I dont think anyone is that stupid, but you can append that that the a player from the republic was never fielded by Ireland after the ruling The Fashion Icon 10:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The only reason the IFA had a long history of representing Ireland was because it was founded first ! The FAI has an equally strong claim and was supported by FIFA. To claim the British Home Championship was the most prestigious tournament at the time is an extremely British-centric POV. It was just one of several similar regional competitions and is only notable because it is the oldest. While the home nations chose the path of isolation, other countries including the Irish Free State, were competing in the Olympic Games and the World Cup. Unlike the BHC, these two competitions are still going strong.
 * Yes the FAI did face accusations of selecting third rate Northerners in an attempt to strengthen their case. However the IFA and English FA regularly blocked FAI attempts to call up Northern Ireland and England – based players and the article cites some examples. I don’t see how this makes this team claims to be all-Ireland less valid. The team regularly included Northern players, their ability or lack of it is irrelevant. In addition the make up of the team is also more relevant then which team was most popular.
 * The FAI only picked Irish League players for Iberia tour, this is true. However equally the IFA never picked a League of Ireland - based player, after 1924 all Free State – born players who were selected for IFA were based in UK. Both associations are guilty of blocking players from their own leagues from playing for their rivals. However this still does not make their claims to be all-Ireland teams less valid.
 * Your version of the FIFA ruling is still wooly and open to misunderstanding.
 * Removed below. Bad spelling, bad grammar and just incorrect. It also just repeats info already included in article elsewhere. Last sentence in second excerpt is also misleading.
 * when FIFA decreded that the team be known as The republic of Ireland]], and that the only football team permitted to use the name Ireland was the Irish FA international selection. 
 * The Irish FA successfully appealed the decision and were allowed to retain the right to field a team called Ireland, with players drawn throughout Ireland in the non-FIFA regulated British Home Championship, however a Republic born player was never to play for Ireland again. Djln --Djln 19:48, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move
I have thrown a proposal to change the naming convention up at Talk:Ireland national football team The Fashion Icon 16:37, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Selected Former Players
Who selected these players and why did they do so? The Fashion Icon 22:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What exactly is your problem now, all these players played for this national team at some point. Check their individual articles and you can see why these players have been included. They are among the teams most notable players and / or have been mentioned earlier in the article. The article is well sourced and referenced, so how or what in particular qualifies as original rearch. Djln--Djln 00:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If you scroll up the thread, you will see my "problem", however I wll restate my question, "Who selected these players and why did they do so?", it they were selcted by some random wikipedian then it is original research, however if they have been "selected" by an independent reputable source, then just tag in the ref. On your other point, while articles may hint on reasons for inclusion, this list has also excluded the majority of players, and it is difficult to determine why the descision to exclude was made The Fashion Icon 09:50, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You have stated elsewhere that you are against the actual existence of this article. This seems to be your latest attempt to undermine it. You have not given any reason why these players should not be included. The onus is on you to say why they should not be included. If you a have an issue with why these particular players are included then put forward a case for or against an individual player. Hundreds of other articles on clubs and national teams have similar lists which are chosen by a consensus of interested Wiki editors. There is nothing to stop you adding to the list if you feel a particular player has been overlooked. It is not necessary to reference every single player especially if they have been mentioned in the article and /or have their own article with references. Try making a positive contribution and stop being so negative.  Djln --Djln 00:23, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no objection to these players being included, but the basis on which they are selected needs to be explained, the concept that "adding to the list if you feel a particular player has been overlooked", is blatantly original research, there are three options:
 * Include all the players
 * Include no players
 * Include a reference to the selction and exclusion criteria
 * The Fashion Icon 06:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If you have no issue with why these players are included then what is all your fussing about. You are just stirring shite for the sake of it. All these players have Wiki articles with references and links and / or are mentioned in the article. Not all the players who played for this team have Wiki articles are were as notable as these. If we listed every single player who played for the team, it could go into the hundreds which would be ridiculous. Articles on Liverpool F.C. or FC Barcelona or England do not list every single player who played for them, but include a section of Noted Players which is a Wiki standard. See WikiProject Football/National teams. If you have an issue with these sections, you should take it up at WikiProject Football and not here. Djln--Djln 23:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It is more the exclusion criteria I am worried about, and while a wiki article may imply notability(as reliable as wikipedia is), the absence of an article does not imply non-notibility, so this should not be the basis for exclusion. However you are right, this is a bigger issue than just this one article, I will post something on one of those project pages later this week, I'll drop you a line when I have done so The Fashion Icon 07:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)