Talk:Irish Wolfhound/Archive 1

Health section is confusing
I can't make heads nor tails of the Health section, since the first paragraph is all negatives. It appears to be telling you what they used to do, but don't do now.. which doesn't actually tell you what you're supposed to do now. Can someone familiar with the subject please reword that so it makes sense? Errick 06:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

That claim of 18 months before being ready for lure coursing and other strenuous activities is dubious. ASFA allows all breeds, IW's included, to course at 11 months. AKC allows IW's at one year. Sky Schemer 16:18, 28 October 2009 (PDT)

purpose?
Why is the purpose of the wolfhound both to hunt wolves, and to mate with wolves? And how come it doesn't mention anything else about the latter in the article? Robin Chen 19:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds like someone made a joke... The breed's purpose has bever been to mate with wolves ;) --84.74.135.177 22:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Im betting that someone got it confused with the sarloos wolfhound because THAT breed did have that purpose becaus the origonator of that breed found that as a result of all the inbreeding of dogs to form specific breeds made dissorders and weaknesseswere showing up more and more regularly. so in order to reduce this Mr. sarloos bred the wolf with a sertain sheperd dog and bred that dog with other sheperds to stabalise the breeds so they wouldnt die out.

Alleged Extinction
http://www.iwclubofamerica.org/gettysburg.htm

I found this as a reference link from the Irish Brigade page. Apparently, at least this sculptor once believed the breed extinct. Anyone ever hear anything like that? The article as is mentions the breed became very scarce, but if it was ever widely accepted to be extinct, that would certainly be worth noting. --BDD 21:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I do believe that Captain Graham (do I have the name right?) had to try hard to find enough living examples, so I would not be surprised if they were thought to be extinct - not that I know. What I find interesting about that statue, by the way, is I've never seen a real Irish Wolfhound sit like that! Their (at least mine and others I've known) sit with their hind legs splayed out at the knees, not nicely tucked in, at least the vast majority of the time, and due to the way their tendons work their front feet don't stick out strait and flat along the ground in front when the "elbows" are bent: instead that bend forces the "wrists" (don't know correct dog terms" to bend, and they usually end up with their paws sticking out sideways in something that tends to draw comments concerning chicken wings. Quite goofy but very charming, so any IW folk out there with dogs that DO sit gracefully please don't flame me for having Dr. Suess-type hounds. --Fitzhugh 05:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Defaced
someone has defaced the history section of the article saying

"The breed is very old, possibly from the 1st century BC or earlier, they r the uglyest dogs ever and can lick there a**es all day for all i care!!!!!! they have lots and lots and lots of pubic hairs (well thats what it looks like at least!!!!!) but anyways how about yours is it sick or something? if your hear to bye one turn around and go the other way!!! you dont want one of these there tooo big youll cry about when it barks at you every god forsaking time you enter that front door!!!!!! i personaly like those little chiwawas or however you spell it!!!!!! i cary mine aroud in a little "THATS HOT" purse and i love it!!!! it barks at whoever comes near me and i love it becuz its like my little alarm it tells everytime a man sticks it **** up my *** i love it!!!!!!"

I lack the knowledge of how to return the page to its original state

The instructions for reverting are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_revert_a_page_to_an_earlier_version You can skim most of the page, the actual instructions are quite simple and short, but the rest is quite useful to know and understand. Please, don't be shy about editing! You'r contribution matter as much as anyones Fitzhugh 07:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes it was defaced, and thank you! I appreciate your commenting on it and I reverted it. Looks like someone has been vandalizing this page a bunch today and I think earlier though I only glanced at changes.

what a sick jerk. so what if they dont like the breed they dont have to be so offensive. and as for chihuahuas(here comes my hipocrate moment) i HATE THOSE YAPPY LITTLE RATS especially in the hands of some one like her. its very rude to let your dog bark at people. this person is shaming her country. i hope she's not from america thats my home country —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.150.11.71 (talk) 02:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Britishwolfhunt.jpg
The image File:Britishwolfhunt.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --20:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Height
In an earlier version of the page, it says 5 - 10 centimeters less for females, but this was changed as it was suspected to be vandalism to 50 to 100 centimeters. As this creates a range 10 times higher than that of the males ( 50 cm vs 5 cm) I'm thinking that the original may have been correct, but misread by the person who changed it. It seems quite reasonable to me that the breeders would aim for a female dog between 5 to 10 centimeters less than the male, although they may have thought it read that they aim for a dog 5 to 10 centimeters, which is less than the male.
 * I could be wrong here, but it seems strange to me as it currently stands:
 * Males - 85 to 90
 * Females 50 to 100
 * --78.151.187.14 (talk) 20:07, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Plagerism?
I noticed that the paragraph under "Temperament" is largely copied and pasted from the article it cites, which is considered plagerism. Somebody needs to paraphrase it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.22.86.238 (talk) 00:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Going overboard
I understand the temptation to put in a lot of 'citation needed' links, but I'm pretty sure we can refer to Irish Wolfhounds as 'dogs' without citing a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.5.239.5 (talk) 19:15, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

History
The present section on the history of this breed is rich in myth, poor in fact. It is certainly poor in verifiable fact. Any historical description of the modern Irish Wolfhound, that does nor seriously discuss the contribution of G.A. Graham the creator of the modern breed, is insufficient, if not irrelevant.--Richard Hawkins (talk) 21:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Since I made the above comment, the History section on this breed has been expanded by more unverified "opinion". The factual links between the modern breed of Irish wolfhound and: "cu", "Irish laws", "ancient woodcuts", Roman history, Irish sagas, king's ownership, bejeweled dogs, the killing of wolves like rats, the catching of armoured knights etc, are tenuous if not non-existant, and in some cases simply nonsense. If this section is to include legend and myth, it should be clearly labelled as such, and other "facts" should be verified with citations.--Richard Hawkins (talk) 13:37, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Two different dogs are spoken of in this article - the ancient breed kept for hunting wolves and for war and extinct long ago, and the modern breed generated from a number of crosses to include the size of the Great Dane and the general conformation and coat of the Scottish Deerhound. The article might be best split into two. One article about the mythological beast and one about the real modern Irish Wolfhound. Queryit (talk) 00:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Tallest / largest?
Is the IW really supposed to be the largest dog of all breeds? I didn't see the equivalent text in the linked FCI or KC (UK) standards, but the AKC standard includes the phrase "The largest and tallest of the galloping hounds." This implies that IWs need not be larger than Danes or Mastiffs, but they are the largest of the sighthounds.

Traditionally they have been the tallest of dog breeds, when considering the tallest individuals, but by no means the heaviest (I believe an Old English Mastiff recently had that record). However, at least until recently the claim for the tallest dog was made by the owner of a Great Dane that, as I understand, was intentionally bred over generations purely for height, and the owners have attempted to make money off of selling merchandise (everything from cups to t-shirts) with their dog and the claim of that dog being the tallest on them. This was as of a year or so ago, and though I currently have my second wolfhound I do really do not know for sure. I do know that the majority of wolfhound breeders I have spoken to at shows regarding the subject have strongly rejected the idea of breeding for height, since that is neither an indication of health nor desirable temperment, and I will say that the focus of the breeders on those issues was a strong factor in my choosing the breed. That is not to say there are not disreputable and wholly irresponsible breeders of Irish Wolfhounds, just like any dog - they just have faired better than many (from what I have seen) since there has not been a large demand for such a large dog. I went over a few issues here, but I hope it helps. Please consider this just pointers to things to look up, not definitive answers. If nothing else, even my current Irish Wolfhound "runt" gets comments each time we go downtown like "where's the saddle?" "Is that really a dog?" "How tall is she when she stands on her hind legs?" etc. The answer to the last is only 5 feet 8 inches or so, while my first was way over 6 feet, and was around 36 inches at the shoulder. I believe the best answer is: as a breed they are the tallest, though some statistical outliers in other breeds may be even taller, and Great Danes seem to be on average quite close in height. Another IW person may slam me for this, but I don't claim perfect knowledge. --Fitzhugh 04:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Iwsoi (talk) 12:07, 27 March 2009 (UTC)== IP Vandalism to the Link Section (IW Society of Ireland) ==

Over the past few weeks, there have been several attempts by IPs to put the "IW Society of Ireland" on top of the link list and to link to an outdated page of the IW Club of Ireland instead of the official club page. The "IW Society of Ireland" has only been created recently and is not an official breed club. While it can be mentioned in the link section after official breed clubs, the IKC-associated Irish Wolfhound Club of Ireland is the sole official breed club in the Republic of Ireland and therefore takes precedence over this group. --Cú Faoil (talk) 17:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Contrary to the above assertion, the Irish Wolfhound Society of Ireland is approved by and affiliated with the Irish Kennel Club.

There should be no such thing as a group having "precedence" -- we all want to further the breed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iwsoi (talk • contribs) 12:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree tallest is accurate/justified, certainly not largest as that implies weight.. which this certainly does not lead in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.153.137.69 (talk) 00:35, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Temperance contradiction
There is a direct contradiction in the temperance section. It first claims that wolfhounds are "stand-off ish" to strangers, yet in the next paragraph claims they make bad guard dogs because they are friendly to strangers. Someone please correct this section... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.220.90 (talk) 01:32, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Life expectancy
I have edited the section of life expectancy to make it slightly more honest. I think 6-7 is pretty accurate and that it is important to point out that this reflects the fact that it is a giant breed and also that this leads to a lot of heartache for owners. I think a lot of breeders and people associated with the breed like to brush this kind of stuff away which results in people buying these animals under false pretences. I ahve therefore removed the optimistic forecast of ten - I kow of kno scientific proof that lifes are getting any longer - on the contrary cancer seems to be on the increase. My first managed 6 and my second has bone cancer at 4. max@hotopf.com

This page previously said life expectancy was 10 years on average. Someone just changed it to 6 to 7. New Encyclopedia of the Dog (Bruce Fogel DVM ,2000) says 11 years. The New Dog Handbook (Hans-J. Ullmann, 1985) says 12 years. I looked in a bunch of books and these are the only ones that mention life expectancy. Online, Dogbreedinfo says 6-8 years; animalforum says 7-8; These go along with a lot of online sites that all quote ranges around 6-8. There are some online personal examples that happen to mention ages of this breed at expiration; all again in that short lifespan. How do you suppose the print media has such a disconnect from what's online? And how do we know what's reliable average info? I'm going to leave it at 6-7 for now. Elf | Talk 23:56, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Reviewing the mailing list and messageboard traffic of IW breeders, 6-8 is, sadly, the current average, especially for show-quality animals. Many breeders are now specifically breeding for longevity and health rather than AKC trophies, with some lines achieving a consistent 10-12 year lifespan. Just wish I had a house rather than an apartment, they're fascinating animals. Matt Gabriel | Matt Gabriel


 * You will always find such discrepancies in longevity statistics like this, simply due to the sheer quantity of factors that determine its value. Consider humans; in some countries our life expectancy is as much as 20 years longer than others. As a vet, I would certainly not be surprised to see a (well looked after) Irish Wolfhound live to 10 or even 12.


 * The German Version of the article has very useful numbers from a recent study - I'll try to get them over here sometime if nobody beats me to it.

Right censored data
There is a study which analyzed the data from the Bernardi survey and after controlling for right censored data, the average lifespan increased from 6.47 to 7.37.--Dodo bird (talk) 02:55, 7 April 2011 (UTC)