Talk:Iron Butterfly

Something
12.72.134.101 15:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)This article needs a major rewrite. There are a number of inaccuracies, half-truths, and major omissions. For one thing, the list of members here is only correct for a few of their albums. Lee Dorman and Erik Braunn were not original members (although they were onboard for In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida) and LOTS of people who aren't mentioned were in the band at one point or another.

Also, while it's true that the band broke up in '71, the article fails to mention that the band has been reformed multiple times since then, and in fact that they are on tour today, with two members from the early days (Lee Dorman and Ron Bushy are in the band - Erik Braunn is dead and I have no idea what Ingle is doing or if he's sitll alive.) Isomorphic 00:02, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

-Regarding Doug Ingle; last I heard from band mates and others in their circle of musician friends, after the death of his father, Doug return home to San Diego mid-tour, to look after his mom. Last I heard, he's still alive and haven't heard different. I'm Partev, I used to crew for the band 1975-77, and two spin-off bands Magic and Gold 1977-79. I can be contacted for further info at dark_star@ieee.org or at partev@cs-darkstar.com if that helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.166.54.42 (talk) 22:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

There used to be a picture of the classic line-up as well, and that disappeared too and wasnt replaced.

It should also be noted that the term "Heavy" as commonly used to describe a genre of rock music was "coined" by Iron Butterfly. The term came into use after the release of their album "Heavy". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.85.29 (talk) 19:06, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If a good source can be found, that can be posted on the article. Backtable Speak to Me  about what I have done  01:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Heavy' was a term used back in the Fifties among beatniks, so, no.50.111.1.254 (talk) 06:01, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

"Soul Experience" was a chart-climber in 1969 or 1970
The main article suggests that "Innagaddadivida" was the group's biggest hit, and I don't dispute that, but how high did "Soul Experience" climb the charts when Ball first came out? I seem to remember 'Soul Experience' receiving a ton of air play in 1969 and 1970. 12.72.134.101 15:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)James Glenn Clark12.72.134.101 15:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * As I have now noted and referenced in the article on Ball, "Soul Experience" managed to get as high as #75. This makes it the band's third-highest charting single; "Easy Rider (let the wind pay the way)" was their second-highest.--Martin IIIa (talk) 01:42, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

"Oceans Twelve" It sounds like Doug Ingle or Eric Brann had something to do with the score. Iron Butterfly had or has such a unique sound, and I'm not just talking a certain part of the movie, the whole movie score sounds like it was at least influenced by the "Butterfly". But now that I think about it the band has had so many changes its hard to credit anybody with the originality of the sound. Although if I was to credit anybody with the influence of the score it would be Doug Ingle and Eric Brann. Just an opinion.

Fair use rationale for Image:Ironbutterfly.jpg
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Better Lead Image?
This current ones an album cover which really isnt a great lead. Any viable pic of the band? LordRobert 12:34, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Name correction, please
Is the young guitarist's name Brann or Braunn? The article uses both spellings. I seem to remember Braunn, but I no longer have the album to check. I also remember hearing that he was only high-school age when "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" was released. That'd be interesting in the article, if true. Grinhooks (talk) 16:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Update: Never mind, I verified and added the info myself. Erik Braunn's official (now posthumous) website, http://www.erikbraunn.net never refers to him by any other name, I can't yet confirm his birth name. Grinhooks (talk) 17:21, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

His born identity was "Erik Keith Braunn", which is how it appeared on the the pamphlet at his memorial service. His full born name is out there on the web somewhere, I've come across it before. "Erik Braunn" is how it appeared on his business card he gave me. I knew him and crewed for the band during the mid to late 1970's. We had been in touch on and off over the years. Also, I'm the one that caught the phone call at their studio from the band on tour in Germany, regarding bass player Keith Ellis. They needed Lee to go to Germany sooner rather than later. 98.96.90.166 (talk) 23:17, 29 June 2008 (UTC) Partev- I crewed for Iron Butterfly September 1975 to summer 1977, then two of the spin-off bands Magic (1977-78) and Gold (1978-79), I was there, so I have first hand knowledge. I can be contacted at dark_star@ieee.org or partev@cs-darkstar.com

Lineup section
This section is poorly formatted and too big, as well as unprofessionally written in places. Can anyone who knows a lot about Iron Butterfly fix it up? Rarr (talk) 01:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * i compacted the formatting. someone else will have to look at the content —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 19:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I used to crew for them 1975-77, and have stayed in touch with drummer Ron Bushy over the years. I'll give it a look-see. Partev at dark_star@ieee.org or at partev@cs-darkstar.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.166.54.42 (talk) 21:49, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Album sales
There was a discussion to this effect on the "list of best-selling albums" page, but how many copies each did Iron Butterfly's albums sell? Especial "In A Gadda Da Vida". The discography page says that "Heavy" and "Ball" went Gold each, and "In A Gadda Da Vida" went Quadruple Platinum, yet this seems ridiculously low. Any help, with sources/links/whatever would help to improve this article. Thank you. Dr Rgne (talk) 12:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Connections to a Group of Guys in Germany
The cut, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, was a very popular song for a group of morse intercept folks at Rothwesten.......you know who you were... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rdodson (talk • contribs) 02:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

And that's relevant to the article how exactly? Dr Rgne (talk) 09:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The text around the infobox picture
It doesn't need to be there. However, I do not know how to remove it, so if anyone else is able to do that, then that would be nice. Thank you. Backtable Speak to Me about what I have done  23:27, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Done. It might be better to replace the picture entirely with something a little better than a non-flat photo of the band? Let me go look in my collection. Or if you have a better one... Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 08:08, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for fixing that loose text; it is much appreciated. I wouldn't mind the photo being replaced, but I don't have much experience with uploading photos on wikipedia. I might get aaround to uploading photos one day, but it definitely is one of my current weaknesses, unfortunately. Backtable Speak to Me  about what I have done  21:21, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

New album
Iron Butterfly issued a new album called The Lost Broadcasts link 1, link 2 --Marekkoudelka (talk) 09:39, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that the articles Martin Gerschwitz, Erik Brann, Jerry Penrod, Darryl DeLoach, and Danny Weis be merged into this article. None of these people have any notability outside of their involvement with Iron Butterfly, and aside from Brann, none have notability even there, having contributed to at most one album. This means that, with the possible exception of Brann, they all fail to meet WP:MUSICBIO. More importantly, since they all essentially just repeat information already found in the main Iron Butterfly article, the existence of separate articles just multiplies the amount of work Iron Butterfly editors have to do. Finally, all the articles are in poor shape as far as references go, and merging them into Iron Butterfly will ensure that information gets attention from a greater variety of editors.--Martin IIIa (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Support. Those particular articles do not have much going for them. They are very short and have at most one reference in the page. However, there is Jerry Penrod's article, which states that he has been in two bands with Wikipedia articles (Iron Butterfly and Rhinoceros.) Maybe some more information could be added to that one, but if it is necessary for them all to be redirected, then so be it. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 04:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * My bad... I don't know how I managed such a blatant oversight, but it completely slipped my mind that both Weis and Penrod were later in Rhinocerous. The problem remains that their articles have both been around for years and still have little enough content that they would fit more conveniently within Iron Butterfly, but they at least have notability independent of Iron Butterfly, and this raises the question of whether Weis and Penrod should redirect to Iron Butterfly or Rhinoceros.  Maybe we should put those two on hold for now and just merge the other three?--Martin IIIa (talk) 16:00, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In the meantime, I think that's a good idea. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 22:39, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, it looks like that's all the discussion this proposal is going to get, so I'll close the discussion and do the merges. If I have a moment, I'll try to dig up more content for the Weis and Penrod articles, too.--Martin IIIa (talk) 15:32, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

How did Pinera and Rhino join?
This has been puzzling me ever since I first picked up Metamorphosis about 8 or 9 years ago. Every history of Iron Butterfly I've seen says that Mike Pinera and Rhino joined the band prior to the recording of the album. Yet the album itself - whose reliability is hard to question - designates them as non-members. For starters, it's credited not to Iron Butterfly, but to "Iron Butterfly With Pinera and Rhino". Far more tellingly, it ambiguously credits all songs as written by Iron Butterfly, and upon checking the BMI records for these songs, I find they belong to Ron Bushy, Lee Dorman, and Doug Ingle. Pinera and Rhino have no ownership on any of them. On top of all that, it is odd that the band would hire two additional guitarists when they already had two in their very ranks, especially as they'd gotten on just fine with only one guitarist before.

It's easy to draw an explanation for how so many IB histories would get this point wrong: At some point, a historian decided to simplify the story of Pinera and Rhino's involvement with Metamorphosis and just say they were already official members at that time, and subsequent historians just repeated what they'd read from this guy. It wouldn't be the first time such an oversimplification was passed around as historical fact. And yet, I find the whole thing puzzling, given how prominently Pinera and Rhino are featured on the album's sleeve, and the unquestionable fact that they did join at some point before the breakup. Is there anyone here who has heard any details of exactly how Pinera and Rhino came to join the band?--Martin IIIa (talk) 15:06, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Both Pinera and Rhino were full-fledged members. They joined the group, which then toured in support of the 'live' album, then all went into the studio to record the "Meta.." album. Rhino was unable to get a writing credit due to contractual difficulties, and Pinera probably had some input into arrangements, at least. Many reasons can account for not getting writing credits in rock groups. Oh, and there's nothing at all 'odd' about hiring two guitarists. Rhino was quite a catch and added some virtuosity in that department that was quite beyond Braunn's playing. Oh, and the 'with' was just a way to give the new guys some notice to the public.50.111.1.254 (talk) 06:13, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Is this a Reliable Source?


Under the "bop" section it states "...in all the the album has sold 30 million copies...". This could then replace the outdated "25 million" number listed in the article. Eye Fields (talk) 17:03, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh, here's another one I forgot to type :(

Eye Fields (talk) 17:06, 27 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, neither of those really work. The second source is reliable, but they specifically note that the 30 million figure came from the band's website, which is of course not an independent source. The first source is a site selling tickets for the band's shows, so most likely that bio came from the band's management as well. Also, in purely logical terms, the 30 million figure seems dubious. If we accept the 25 million figure as accurate, then that means the album sold 5 million copies in the past 5 years, yet so far as I know there's been no surge of interest in the album over that time. Most likely Iron Butterfly's management is rounding the album's sales up to the nearest ten million.--Martin IIIa (talk) 15:00, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

The 25 million figure was first cited in the early 90's, and can be sourced from various reliable sources from the time. That means that the album would have had to have sold approximately 5 million copies worldwide in 20+ years. There have been "special edition" re-releases, as well as the title track being used in movies, and an episode of The Simpsons to name just a few things. Considering how many copies Michael Jackson's Thriller is supposed to have sold in recent years(jumping from app. 48 million in about 1994 to 105 million by 2007?) the "5 million worldwide in 20+ years" does not seem excessive. Eye Fields (talk) 15:14, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, okay. I haven't seen any sources on the album's sales that date back to the 90s. The problem remains, though, that neither of the sources you've linked can be cited for that fact. I'll see if I can dig up a better reference when I get some time.--Martin IIIa (talk) 12:14, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


 * ...Bad news. I've done some searching, and while I did turn up two more reliable sources stating over 30 million in sales ( and ), both of them explicitly cite the band's website as the source of the figure. That's three reliable sources now that we've found which rely on the band's website, which makes me suspect there may not be a better source for the 30 million figure out there. Also, I stumbled on an old 2008 discussion of the matter at Talk:List of best-selling albums/Archive 3, and they couldn't find a good source for it either. We may be stuck with 25 million until there are further developments.--Martin IIIa (talk) 22:45, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Morris is actually Morse
I replaced four instances of "Bruce Morris" with "Morse", because it seems that's the name of the percussionist. § FreeRangeFrog croak 18:37, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

DeLoach information
The sentence including the following - "DeLoach subsequently recorded with Two Guitars, Piano, Drum and Darryl" - seems a bit unclear. Is Two Guitars, Piano. . . a musical group? The statement implies this but is not clear in it's intent. It also seems somewhat out of place as it appears seemingly out of nowhere and unconnected to the previous paragraph. Thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 18:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Puple Pyrimd Records released two inoffical live albums in May and August this year; (Live At The Galaxy 1967) and Live in Copenhagen 1971. For the latter not enough source material except [could be found] Saemikneu (talk) 12:48, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

New inoffical live albums
Puple Pyrimd Records released two inoffical live albums in May and August this year; (Live At The Galaxy 1967) and Live in Copenhagen 1971. I didn't do a article beacuse only two sources could be found [RateYourMusic.com] and [Entry on Allmusic] and I felt the earlier material would be worth an article due its rareness on the market. Saemikneu (talk) 12:50, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

RIAA
Johnnie Taylor's "Disco Lady" is the first Platinum® single. The first Platinum™ album certified by the RIAA® was The Eagles' Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975.

There's a misunderstanding there. In A Gadda Da Vida was released in early 1968. Bu late 1969 it had sold more than ten million copies in the USA alone. At the time the only award for certification was Gold(which was for sales of half a million copies in the USA). In A Gadda Da Vida had already been certified Gold, but that seemed a bit silly, considering how many copies the album had already sold, and was still in the Top 10(and would be the biggest selling album in the USA for the calendar year 1969). For this reason, Iron Butterfly's record company created a special award, the 'Platinum Record', with Atlantic Records head Ahmet Ertegun presenting it to them, and noting that 'the Gold Record certification is meaningless at this point. The album has sold twenty times that amount'. Note that this was not the RIAA, but rather Atlantic Records acknowledging one of their own artists' extraordinary sales. The RIAA only introduced the 'Platinum Record' award(for sales of one million copies in the USA) some years later, and for the RIAA Platinum Record, The Eagles were indeed the first act to receive that RIAA award from the RIAA. Laughably, the RIAA only recognize sales of "4 million" for In A Gadda Da Vida in the USA, which is pretty much what In A Gadda Da Vida sold in the USA AFTER 1976, with no recognition of the huge sales before that date.
 * Rubbish. CREAM was awarded platinum sales for their 3rd album, "Wheels of Fire" in 1969 - see Chris Welch's well-documented bio of the group.50.111.1.254 (talk) 06:18, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * People may have taken what you say seriously if you hadn't started your post by saying "Rubbish". Take your foul attitude elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.87.143.7 (talk) 14:26, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Jimmy Page and the name Led Zeppelin
The article states that: "Around this time, the band notably met guitarist Jimmy Page, who stated that he used the group as partial inspiration for the name 'Led Zeppelin'." However I have never heard anything about Jimmy Page being inspired - even in part - to name Led Zeppelin as a result of Iron Butterfly. The accepted story is that Jimmy Page was talking to Keith Moon and John Entwistle of The Who - both of whom were thinking about leaving that band - about forming a "super group". Keith Moon and/or John Entwistle - there seems to be some question about who said exactly what, but not that it was one of those two who said it - suggested the name Led Zeppelin. There are plenty of references which attest to this, but none - that I can find - which suggest that Iron Butterfly had anything to do with it. Either a reference needs to be found, or this statement needs to be removed. FillsHerTease (talk) 03:49, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * true, however, in interviews he has stated that another reason they liked the name LZ was that it had the 'light/heavy thing, like Iron Butterfly.'

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Heavy Metal
Iron Butterfly is pioneer of heavy metal music, along with steppenwolf and Blue cheer. Iron Butterfly recorded heavy metal standard " In a gadda da vida(US #30) in 1968. So i added genre "Heavy Metal" in this page. - LSM1204 (talk) 03:02, 16 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, LSM1204. Looks like someone disagreed, and reverted your genre addition. I like the song, I am not so sure it would be heavy metal, which I also like. What I do know is that my opinion, and yours, don't really count for much, so... can you point to some sourcessaying they're "heavy metal"? - Nabla (talk) 19:56, 17 July 2017 (UTC)


 * They're included on the comprehensive "Heavy Metal Box Set", first disc, first track! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heavy_Metal_Box FiggazWithAttitude (talk) 15:03, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * OF COURSE it was 'heavy metal' - that riff is a classic in the genre - don't confuse 90's 'speed metal' or Black Sabbath as owning the club.

Real Fright
As I've noted in a recently added footnote to Ball (Iron Butterfly album), I am thoroughly befuddled by the songwriting credits for this song. The album gives the credit (Ingle, Bushy, Brann), but the song dates back to Iron Butterfly's early days, long before Erik Brann was associated with the group. The July 1967 live recording of "Real Fright" on the album Live at the Galaxy 1967 seems identical to the version on Ball in terms of composition, apparently eliminating the possibility that Brann made changes to the song after he joined. Even more confusing, the song was registered with BMI twice, with two completely different songwriter credits, neither of which matches the credit given on the album. The first time, BMI Work #1232752, the song was credited to Doug Ingle and Erik Brann. The second time, BMI Work #1232753, the song was credited to Danny Weis and Darryl DeLoach.

Anybody have a clue what the deal here is? Alternatively, anyone know of a way of contacting either the Iron Butterfly fan base or any of the band members so that I can ask them?--Martin IIIa (talk) 19:23, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

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Who is Who?
This page is overly long with people's names. How do we know who was a "member" and who was just someone who filled in for a night. This has become a clutter of people's names, and with no citations proving any of this. I could probably add any ole name to the list and it might not be noticed. I wouldn't be surprised if there might be somebody's dog listed as a laugh. This needs to be correctly cited and the names need to be cut back. I really doubt that Iron Butterfly has had this many members over time.Sgerbic (talk) 02:40, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I accidentally broke the discography section
I was trying to add a RIAA Gold certification on the album "Heavy" but accidentally broke the section, can someone please undo it and add the Gold certification please? Easyrider77 (talk) 19:42, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. Easy fix there; thanks for being up front and honest about it. Mungo Kitsch   (talk)  23:40, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * THANK YOU!!!!!!!! Easyrider77 (talk) 01:25, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Can we condense the timeline? If so, can it be from 1966 to 1976
The timeline is too big, so lets condense it and put the old timeline on a "List Of Iron Butterfly Members" page. Easyrider77 (talk) 20:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)