Talk:Iron March

Potential sources

 * Fascist Forge: A New Forum for Hate (ADL, Jan 2019)
 * non-RS
 * Mysterious hacker dumps database of infamous IronMarch neo-nazi forum (ZDnet, Nov 2019)
 * The Woman Who Plotted a Valentine's Mass Murder Shares How the Internet Radicalized Her (Vice, Feb 2019)
 * Extremist Files: James Mason (SPLC)
 * Neo-Nazi Web Forum Iron March Has SQL Database Dumped on the Internet Archive (Gizmodo, Nov 2019)
 * Airbnb Bans Over 60 White Supremacists After Iron March Forum Database Leak (Gizmodo, Dec 2019)
 * Leak from neo-Nazi site could identify hundreds of extremists worldwide (The Guardian, Nov 2019)
 * Map of hate: Publication pinpoints Canadian users of neo-Nazi site Iron March (CTV News, Nov 2019)
 * The Obscure Neo-Nazi Forum Linked to a Wave of Terror (Vice, Mar 2018)
 * Visions of Chaos: Weighing the Violent Legacy of Iron March (SPLC, Feb 2019)
 * A U.S. Marine Used the Neo-Nazi Site Iron March to Recruit for a ‘Racial Holy War' (Vice, Nov 2019)
 * 'Deadly serious': Ex neo-Nazi and Iron March user speaks out on de-radicalization (CTV News, Dec 2019)
 * An Atomwaffen Member Sketched a Map to Take the Neo-Nazis Down. What Path Officials Took Is a Mystery. (PBS Frontline, Nov 2018) minor
 * Fascist Forge, the Online Neo-Nazi Recruitment Forum, Is Down (Vice, Feb 2019)
 * Online Neo-Nazis Are Increasingly Embracing Terror Tactics (Vice, Jan 2019)
 * Antipodean Resistance: The Rise and Goals of Australia's New Nazis (ABC AU, April 2018)
 * All-American Nazis (Rolling Stone, May 2018)
 * Discord is purging alt-right, white nationalist and hateful servers (Polygon, Feb 2018)
 * Fascist, pro-Nazi flyers posted at Old Dominion University (13 News Now, March 2016)
 * Neo-Nazi Posters Spotted on Boston University’s Campus (Boston Magazine, May 2016)
 * Campus Reacts After Fascist Group Fliers Posted at ODU Campus (Mace & Crown student newspaper, March 2016)
 * Militant Neo-Nazi Group Claims Credit for Hanging Hitler Portrait, Swastikas on Campus Building (Chicago Maroon, December 2016)
 * Montreal neo-Nazi, outed this week, was lead cheerleader for deadly U.S. cell (CBC, May 2018)
 * This Web Service Banned The Daily Stormer. Why Won't It Drop Another Neo-Nazi Recruitment Forum? (The Stranger, Feb 2017)
 * Homegrown hate (Winnipeg Free Press, Aug 2019)
 * Angry White Men tag
 * From Iron March to Fascist Forge (Gnet research, Dec 2019, reliability?)
 * Ukraine’s Far Right Is Boosting A Pro-Putin Fascist (Bellingcat, Jan 2020)
 * There Is No Political Solution': Accelerationism in the White Power Movement (SPLC, Jun 2020)
 * America's neo-Nazi Terrorists Have a Powerful New Patron: Vladimir Putin (Haaretz Opinion, Feb 2020, often-cited author in extremism, so almost certainly due)
 * Indiana police fire new officer after social media posts reveal link to neo-Nazi forum (USA Today, Oct 2020)
 * ‘No room for hate’: Indiana police recruit fired for neo-Nazi ties, chief says (wsoctv, Oct 2020)
 * 'Extensive' background check missed police officer's involvement in neo-Nazi forum (Purdue Exponent, Oct 2020)
 * UK Ex-Police Officer Jailed for Belonging to Neo-Nazi Group (US News/Reuters, Apr 2021)
 * Neo-Nazi police officer facing jail for membership of banned group (UK News, Apr 2021)
 * Police officer convicted of being in Nazi terror group jailed for four years (Jewish News, Apr 2021)

October 2020 Pentagon report to congress:
 * Pentagon report reveals inroads white supremacists have made in military (The Columbian, Feb 2021)
 * [https://www.rollcall.com/2021/02/16/pentagon-report-reveals-inroads-white-supremacists-have-made-in-military/ (Roll Call, Feb 2021)

Data Analysis:
 * Massive White Supremacist Message Board Leak: How to Access and Interpret the Data (Bellingcat, Nov 2019)
 * Transnational White Terror: Exposing Atomwaffen And The Iron March Networks (Bellingcat, Dec 2019)
 * The Iron March Data Dump Provides a Window Into How White Supremacists Communicate and Recruit (Lawfare Blog, Feb 2020) (Note: has the word 'blog', but see [[Lawfare (blog)
 * Lingua Ferro Iter: Insights Gained Through Linguistic Analysis of Iron March (Small Wars Journal, April 2020
 * AI Weekly: Cutting-edge language models can produce convincing misinformation if we don’t stop them (VentureBeat, Sep 2020)
 * Podcast by researcher on Iron March

Possible external links?:
 * Ironmarch.exposed: A website that allows easy searching of the leak.
 * Iron March Dossiers: Site detailing all individuals doxxed by the leak

Classroom use:
 * William W. Newmann, PhD's syllabus

Once used, will cross out. Jlevi (talk) 01:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've read those data analysis articles but they were pretty esoteric, I couldn't really figure out how to incorporate them into the article. Thoughts? Maybe expand on international cooperation?RKT7789 (talk) 06:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure yet. I think some of it could go in the 'history' section to describe the growth and changes of the site over time. Alternatively, it could just be consolidated under the 'leak' section, since it is interesting, but perhaps only interesting for a particular audience. By providing the analysis on the page, it provides that value to those particular readers. By consolidating, it leaves those finicky details out for the rest. We'll see! I'll try integrating some of these details in the coming week or so. Feel free to modify as you see fit--I very much value another set of eyes when it comes to due weight issues like this. Jlevi (talk) 03:12, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Iron March Dossiers is a good site, wouldn't be able to use it as a direct source as sadly Wikipedia doesn't consider antifascist blogs RS, but we can however use it as a sort of guide to search for RS articles that reported on the findings, like the ICE camp captain's case. Not sure about external link policy.RKT7789 (talk) 07:42, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Counter Extremism Project released their magnum opus, commissioned by German Federal Foreign Office: “Violent Right-Wing Extremism and Terrorism – Transnational Connectivity, Definitions, Incidents, Structures and Countermeasures”. Goes into magnificent detail about IM and related groups and much more. I believe you'll find it useful.RKT7789 (talk) 14:01, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh wow. This rocks. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. Jlevi (talk) 14:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Copyright concerns

 * some concerns-- Moxy 🍁 01:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yup, I copied from there. Is this an issue? I was under the impression that rationalwiki is under a very permissive copyright scheme. I would be interested in learning more about the specifics of WP copyright if I have erred. Jlevi (talk) 01:53, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , maybe you'd be able to comment? I assume you're among those best qualified to talk about rationalwiki copyright issues. I find that rationalwiki often has articles with lots of content that is more than suitable for placement on Wikipedia (perhaps with light copy-editing), so it would be useful to know in the future if this kind of copying is no good. This was my first time doing this. Thank you for your time! Jlevi (talk) 02:00, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * RW is CC-by-sa, so we can use RW content on WP with a notice using CCBYSASource. See the copyright notice at the bottom of Freeman on the land for an example (and see Talk:Freeman_on_the_land/Archive_1 for how the RW content got there). I'm not fully up on how encouraged or discouraged this is in 2020, but that's what WP did in that case - David Gerard (talk) 05:13, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Conflict over starting date in sources
I think I noticed a conflict in when articles say the website was started. I'll need to trace back through my sourcing, but I'll try to isolate the difference:
 * Founded in 2011: CTV uses phrase "active" in reference to 2011.
 * Hatewatch started scraping Iron March in 2011. Exact starting date isn't mentioned.
 * Founded prior to summer 2010:
 * Founded in 2008:

Jlevi (talk) 01:55, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ironmarch was found in 2011, the earlier dates in the articles refer to different, earlier forums that had some of the same users but were separate from ironmarch nevertheless. One of the earlier incarnations was named International Third Position Federation which the Vice article seems to confuse with similarly named International Third Position. At least no other article makes this connection.

RKT7789 (talk) 02:23, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was having an oddly difficult time parsing those statements. Jlevi (talk) 02:25, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * "he appeared to approach members with the understanding that they already knew him from a previous iteration of the forum.


 * "Welcome all to the Iron March forum, formerly known as the ITPF forum,” he wrote, referring to a neo-fascist internet forum called International Third Position Federation. “This topic is a roll call for all veteran forum members – post here if you were back with us at the ITPF forum, all newcomers please proceed to the Introductions area.”
 * mysterious Neo-Nazi Advocated Terrorism for Six Years Before Disappearance. RKT7789 (talk) 02:31, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Fascist Forge
I'm fine with mentioning Fascist Forge in the article, but can it be considered actual successor to Iron March, when it didn't share any of the staff or users with IM. A spiritual successor, though, certainly. And yes, I admit this is nitpicking of the worst kind.RKT7789 (talk) 11:44, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I hear what you're saying. I don't have strong feelings about this. Feel free to remove. Jlevi (talk) 11:56, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm also creating an .svg of the Iron March logo based on the one from here. They're fine copyright wise if they're your own creations, right?RKT7789 (talk) 11:59, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I usually add logos to Wikipedia rather than to Wikimedia Commons because WP:logo is somewhat complicated. If a logo is composed of simple lines, shapes, and letters, or if it is a 'historically common' symbol, then logos are usually public domain. Otherwise, they're often non-free. This logo might fall under the 'historically common' category, given that it is composed of what look like standard fascist iconography. But I don't really know. Might be worth asking at the appropriate noticeboard. Jlevi (talk) 18:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, and making a screenshot is not the same as authorship. You are not the author in this case--that's whoever made this logo originally (unless... *gasp* :o you were the Iron March user who produced this logo). Jlevi (talk) 18:31, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Enough material for a BLP of Slavros?
I am considering starting a BLP on Slavros (the founder of Iron March). There seem to be enough strong sources to develop an article. Would this be reasonable? Is there a good way to integrate these materials here, or would a full section on Slavros be unbalanced on this page?

If I had to pick the strongest couple of sources in a AfD discussion on this page, here are the few I'd choose: Maybe  too.

Jlevi (talk) 03:09, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think BLP might be the best way to go about this, yeah. This is article about the site after all, and there is plenty of material about Slavros. This would be a great opportunity to finally put it together and write a comprehensive article in English. Looking for precedents, Mike Enoch and his blog have separate articles despite of less notable/notorious.


 * According to the Russian article of his grandfather, leader of Soviet Uzbekistan, he's a descendant of Hasan ibn Ali, grandson of Prophet Mohammad, making him a Sayyid. Quite the credentials for a neo-nazi! Also seems to have written a couple of books. RKT7789 (talk) 04:11, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey ! Just to be sure, Slavros doesn't have a non-English article yet, right? Jlevi (talk) 01:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Nope.RKT7789 (talk) 05:21, 29 June 2020 (UTC)