Talk:Iron Range

Requested move
Iron Range &#8594; Iron Range/Arrowhead. It is linked to from several pages as "Iron Range/Arrowhead" and I added information to complete the page as such. - ObsidianOP
 * Oppose These are distinct regions of Minnesota and should have seperate articles. EdwinHJ | Talk 00:19, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose for three reasons. One, as a lifelong Minnesotan, my experience has been that the Range is often called just that, or usually "Iron Range" in more formal discussion, and not commonly refered to as a hyphenated or slashed term with the Arrowhead. Two, both the Arrowhead and the Range are sizable regions with enough history, landscape, and culture to each have interesting articles. And three, a slash in a WP title is deprecated for technical reasons. Jonathunder 02:42, 2005 May 12 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The use of "/" is depreciated. See Discussion below --Philip Baird Shearer 02:49, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 11:36, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Discussion
ObsidianOP 03:09, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It's possible to divide Minnesota, like anywhere, into as many regions as one wants. I feel that together they are roughly on the same scale as the other regions the state has been divided into, as well as making a convenient geographic boundary. But, if the move doesn't pass, then I would be happy to create the new page using the content I already wrote.  I'm kinda new at this so I do appreciate any help.


 * The population is WAY off- it looks like you have included Duluth. Duluth is NOT part of the Range. The arrowhead thing is confusing everyone.


 * For "The Iron Range" has a colloquial, local understanding but also a more general geographical understanding (appropriate to the larger Wikipedia project). The fact that many native Minnesotans equate "The Range" with the Mesabi is because the Mesabi is the largest by area and in iron production and the most populous of the four major iron ranges of Minnesota. However, it is legitimate, when considering "Iron Range" in general, to include a discussion of significant ranges outside the Mesabi: Cuyuna, Vermilion, and Gunflint, all of which are historically, culturally, and geologically significant. I propose that the (little) additional particular information contained in the Mesabi Range article be incorporated into the Iron Range article, and that the Mesabi Range page become a #REDIRECT page.Jerry picker 14:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The fact is, even if this Mesabi Range page survives, it will likely be as an incomplete stub, as the lion's share of useful Iron Range information is obviously accumulating at the Iron Range. The contributors and Wiki users appear to be voting with their mouse clicks. 70.187.149.53 14:57, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I also see Duluth included in the Arrowhead with no historic information on this page relating to Duluth. Duluth should have its own page.  Make the Arrowhead and the Iron Range seperate please.  Nobody cares about the arrowhead. The only time the arrowhead is reffered to here is by the weather man when he says that their will be rain throughout the arrowhead region. I also removed the section on Judy Garland.  Grand Rapids is not part of the Range.  (There is no iron mining done there, never has been never will be.)


 * Grand Rapids is absolutely part of the Mesabi Iron Range! The Greenway, West Hill, and other significant mines are within a 5 mile radius of town, and mine tailings approach the city limits. Jerry picker 16:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

See Naming conventions ->Naming conventions (technical restrictions)
 * The following character (forward slash) is allowed, but it is impossible to link if it is the first character of the title:

/
 * (Slashes elsewhere in page titles can have some largely harmless side-effects...

also it implies an html hiarachy, So why use it when there are other options? Philip Baird Shearer 02:49, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Divisions
There are a 1000 ways to divide minnesota, the "iron range" and "arrowhead" regions will never be able to be settled here because they are not official. However, The census does break MN into regions I think this article should be re-labled Northeast minnesota, and Iron Range & arrow head should re-direct here. Can anyone else find an official definiton of MN regions? -Ravedave 21:22, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Itasca State Park
Although the Iron Range includes Itasca County, Itasca State Park is located in Clearwater County, Minnesota (Clearwater County Website) - not a part of the Iron Range (Iron_Range).

Major Cities
Neither Kinney nor Winton really qualifies as deserving of being listed. In fact, having lived in the area for 6+ years, I have never heard of either. Plus neither have a population over 1,000. I think they should be removed.


 * Uff da, NO! I'm from Da Range and I've never heard of Kinney either.  But the historical information is interesting.  Don't cha know?Gandydancer (talk) 17:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I know where Kinney and Winton (Winton Hydro) are, but can someone tell me why Babbit, Tower, Gilbert, Biwabik, Aurora, and Hoyt Lakes are all missing? If they are listing Kinney, they might as well list Allen Junction and its 6 inhabitants. I would consider Hoyt lakes as a "major city" as it was about 2600 people strong. The town was literally raised out of a swamp and built overnight (a couple of years actually) by the mine (LTV Steel). It is also right next to Long Year drill site which is a historical place. How about taconite harbor while we are at it??? The city that was pulled out by the foundation? Its Arrowhead, not Range, but more historic than Kinney. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.32.165.192 (talk) 01:59, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Combine tower/soudan, and fix the link from tower to be tower,mn vs cell phone towers and such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.85.41.163 (talk) 05:56, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Regions of Minnesota
There are iron ranges all over the world. Why is The Minnesota Iron Range getting designated as the "Iron Range"? This article should be named "Minnesota Iron Range", or even The Mesabi Range especially since there are distinct iron ranges in states that border Minnesota (see Marquette Iron Range). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.179.137.198 (talk) 17:40, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The "Explore Minnesota" web site (http://www.exploreminnesota.com/regions/index.aspx) divides the state into four regions. We could do it that way. But I think to do so and be inclusive with the histories of major separate areas would be hugely monolithic. Would you include the Hinkley fire with the development of Duluth. The Cuyuna Range and the creation of the towns and cities from Bay Lake to the almost lost town of Tromald with the rest of "The Ranges"? Or perhaps I have misunderstood the scope of this project. I admit I am biased as I live in Crosby. --Watcher 03:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. There is already an article on the Arrowhead Region (and another on the North Shore).  Most of the Iron Range is in the Arrowhead but some is not; let's leave description of the Arrowhead to its own article.  Good articles stay on point, and this one will benefit by removing extraneous material covered elsewhere. So let's limit the cities and the population stats (if available) to the iron mining regions.  We can mention the ports but they are not part of the Range.   If not sooner done, I will make those changes soon.  Kablammo 03:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)  At the same time we will have to revise Regions of Minnesota to conform.  Kablammo 12:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It sounds like the plan is to move most of the info. in this article to Arrowhead Region and then develop this one to talk mostly about iron mining. I think that's a great idea.--Appraiser 17:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Question
What is the difference between the Iron range and the Mesabi Range? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:48, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The Mesabi is one of the four iron deposits (ranges) which collectively make up the "Iron Range". From first section in the article. Vsmith (talk) 11:46, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

There are arguably five Iron Ranges in Minnesota. The big three are the Mesabi, Vermillion, and Cuyuna. The other two are less well-defined. One was a small-scale operation in Southeastern Minnesota. This was mined during the Second World War. The last is the Gunflint Iron Range. It was mined using the Port Arthur and Duluth Railroad in the 1890's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.28.119 (talk) 23:58, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Another Question
This article includes the Cuyuna Range as part of the Iron Range. The Cuyuna Range is in Crow Wing County, but does not include the Crow Wing County as part of the iron range. Two part question: 1) Why is Cuyuna included in the "Iron Range" and since Cuyuna is included, 2) why is Crow Wing County not included in the Iron Range? (Sidebar, I live in Crow Wing County and it is not the iron range.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.37.99.107 (talk) 04:43, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Merger Proposal
I propose we merge Arrowhead Region into this page. The two articles are covering the exact same region, which is redundant, and it would be much more helpful if all the information about this region was in one place. Biglulu (talk) 06:15, 23 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree - do it. Vsmith (talk) 11:49, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I disagree, overlap in geographic area does not mean overlap in scope. The Iron Range article should be specifically focused on the economic/iron related aspects of the region, while Arrowhead Region should treat the area as a region and have a broader scope. Ryan Vesey 02:29, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The Mesabi and Vermillion Iron Ranges, often both grouped into the "Iron Range" are two distinct areas. The Arrowhead Region contains these both and yet includes millions of acres beyond these.  The Arrowhead Region includes the Superior National Forest, including the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW), Voyageur's National Park, segments of the North Country Trail, the Superior Hiking Trail in its entirity, the North Shore of Minnesota, the Duluth, Minn. area, Grand Portage National Monument, the Gunflint Trail, and the Voyageur's Highway, to name a few highlights.  To lump a much larger, more geographically, geologically, culturally, and historically different area into a smaller area which is defined solely by 130 or so years of open pit iron mining would be an injustice to the Arrowhead region.  Thank you for reading.


 * Disagree - The Arrowhead and Iron Range are two very different areas and meanings as per Ryan, the above statement, and myself. Dinky town  talk  21:25, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Look at it like this: The Arrowhead Region is a historically and culturally defined region by way of geographic waterways.

The southeast boundary is comprised of Minnesota's "North Shore," essentially from Duluth and the St. Louis River north to the Pigeon River and the U.S. and Canadian Border. The northern boundary is comprised of, from east to west, the mouth of the Pigeon River, which is the International Border, west along the Pigeon River until the intersection of this river and the historic Grand Portage trail at the historic Fort Charlotte.

The northern boundary is then synonymous with the "Voyageur's Highway" or "International Border Route." This combination of land and water routes accessed by canoe is made up of 42 traditional portages and almost as many lakes and waterways. It extends from Ft. Charlotte to International Falls. This route has been in use from the very beginnings of the Euro-American Fur Trade.

The point of contention is where to define the western or southwestern boundary of the Arrowhead Region. I contend to use traditional waterways, such as the St. Louis River basin, Upper Mississippi Headwaters basin, and the connecting routes. This includes the historic Savannah Portage, which connects the St. Louis to the Mississippi via land routes.

The point is, these vital waterways which make up the Arrowhead Region were in use for more than a century before ferric (iron) mining was underway on the Iron Ranges of Minnesota. So, to try and incorporate an earlier, larger area, the Arrowhead, into a later and smaller area, the Iron Range (either the Mesabi or the Vermillion), is illogical.

There are two main historic routes through Minnesota from the Lake Superior Basin to either the Mississippi Basin or Hudson Bay Basin. One is through Duluth/Superior, up the St. Louis River, over the Savannah Portage and into the Upper Mississippi. The other is from Grand Portage on Lake Superior, up the eight mile Grand Portage Trail to Fort Charlotte, and along the Pigeon River to South and North Fowl Lakes, Moose and Mountain Lakes, Rove and Rose Lakes, a few more portages and waterbodies until the Height of Land Portage is reached. This is the Continental Divide which separate North Lake (Hudson Bay Basin) and South Lake (Lake Superior Basin). The Arrowhead Region is the land that is between these two vital water routes. The western boundary could then be defined as the traditional route from the Mississippi Basin to the Hudson Bay Basin. I am not entirely familiar with which series of water routes and major portage this is.

Another justification for the Arrowhead Region is that it is only one of two three-way watersheds in North America. The exact spot is somewhere north of Hibbing, Minn. This is now part of the gigantic Hull-Rust-Mahoning Open Pit Iron Mine. The historic spot was known by the Ojibway Tribe, but that spot reportedly is no longer extant. The other three-way watershed in the North America is within Glacier National Park in the Rocky Mountains of Montana, very near the Canadian Border. Water falling near the watershed spot north of Hibbing stands the chance of traveling north into the Hudson Bay, east into Lake Superior, through the Great Lakes and into the Atlantic Ocean, or south into the Mississippi River and down into the Caribbean Sea.

The Arrowhead is made up of interconnected waterways, both geographically and culturally significant. The question remains, which came first the term 'Iron Range' or 'Arrowhead Region?' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.28.119 (talk) 23:51, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

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Accompanying map
The map of the ranges in Minnesota misspells the Vermilion Range by including two "l"'s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.128.142.233 (talk) 06:05, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

added some current information with refs to follow
I've added some current info that is heavily linked to the articles discussed but will still add refs. Please do not delete my entry. Sectionworker (talk) 22:51, 14 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Sectionworker, this article is about the Iron Range. Just add history that is specific to the Iron Ranges (plural) as a whole. Information about specific towns and cities belongs in their articles. Also, remember Duluth is NOT part of the Iron Range (and most inhabitants of Duluth consider the Range a "foreign territory" inhabited by strange  people with funny names). StarryGrandma (talk) 23:06, 14 December 2022 (UTC)


 * What? "Duluth is NOT part of the Iron Range (and most inhabitants of Duluth consider the Range a "foreign territory" inhabited by strange   people with funny names)."  I'm from Minnesota and that's news to me.  Source please, and also source showing that Duluth is not located on the Iron Range area of Minnesota.  Sectionworker (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You may be thinking of Minnesota's Arrowhead region, which Duluth dominates economically as well as in population. This article is about the "elongated iron ore mining districts", shown in red on the map at the top of the article. There has been no iron ore mined in Duluth. My father used to complain that most Minnesotans had no understanding of either the Arrowhead or the iron ranges, just consigning them to the "outstate". No source for my probably unnecessary comment about Duluthians - just personal experience. The iron ranges were settled by a completely different set of immigrants than the rest of the state. Minnesota public television has some nice shows about the iron ranges. See About Iron Range: Minnesota Building America, which says "Without this 100-mile long, 10-mile wide strip of land in Northern Minnesota, the United States would doubtless be a different place." StarryGrandma (talk) 01:10, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Biogeochemical Processes
— Assignment last updated by Tafoy013 (talk) 15:09, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

New source on importance of Iron Range during World War II
"How important was the Iron Range to winning World War II", StarTribune, March 17, 2023. Kablammo (talk) 17:45, 18 March 2023 (UTC)