Talk:Ironman Triathlon/Archive 1

Stuff

 * Is it sure that the idea was born in 1977? Every other source i found says that the idea was born in 1978. The first versions of this article also said 1978, but on Nov.11 2004 someone changed it to 1977. A marathon is 42.195 km. --Franzxf5 17:59, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The event is a trademarked event and the official rendering of this article should have both words in the title capitalized. I moved the article to reflect that.  --Gerald Farinas 17:32, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * However, the official site uses "Ironman" in their text, which is not only proper English, but also easier to read. Any objections to fixing the capitalization in the article? Liamdaly620 16:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I have adapted the distances in mi to reflect the distances in km (1 mi = 1.609 km). I hope these numbers are correct. I'm a bit unsure if mi fractions are expressed in a decimal way. Should it be 1.123 mi or 1 mi xxx yards? D.D. 11:51, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what this is supposed to mean: The event is run all over the world with a special world championship, have moved it here, if anyone can figure, please explain. Kosebamse 22:21, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * This might make more sense, there are Ironman distance races all over the world. Plus there is also a Ironman distance race which is the world championship. Mathmo 01:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Can someone please verify the distances? I always thought a marathon was exactly 26.2 miles, I don't see why this one would be slightly different. zellin 03:24, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * I can verify a marathon is a standard distance of 26 miles, 385 yards or 42,195 meters (in pure miles that would be exactly 26.21875) the difference between the English and metric measure is less than an inch or less than a million of the total distance [source: Olympic Marathon: A Centennial History of the Games' Most Storied Race by Charlie Lovett]


 * Can somebody explain why under the Ledendary Ironman triathletes section for Paula Newby-Fraser it reads "6 consecutive victories in Hawaii (overall record)" by the Winners section only tells of a maximum of four consectutive victories (1991 - 1994)?

Useless Facts
The well known 26 mile marathon has actually been 26 miles, 385 yards since 1908. Before the 1908 Olympics the official marathon distance was around 25 miles. For the 1908 Olympics in London, England it was decided that the royal family needed a better view of the finish line. The race started at Windsor Castle and organizers added an extra 385 yards to the race so the finish line would be in front of the royal box.

From that point forward the marathon distance became 26 miles, 385 yards (42.195 kilometres). The International Assiciation of Athletics Federations (IAAF) adopted the distance as the "official" marathon distance in 1921.

Western Australian Ironman
The town of Busselton, Western Australia holds an ironman event with qualifying spots up for grabs. I dont konw much about the organisation or sport. Should this ironman event be on the list of qualifying events. Ironman WA site. Hossens27 13:38, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is a qualifier for the world champs. (and I so wish I'd done that race... pity it is so far away even though it is in oz, because australia is so damn big! Perth is so far away I might as well go to hawaii) Mathmo 01:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

reversion of large additions
FYI: I've removed a lot of material added by Ytriguy - see. I appreciate his eagerness to improve our coverage, but I don't think that his additions fit into the style of an encyclopedia article. FreplySpang (talk) 16:00, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Some of the points made are very good ones, and are unique to this kind of event. (for instance the sensation a lot of age groupers get of finishing at night with the lights and glow sticks etc...) So should in some manner be included in this article, just perhaps with a slightly different style of writing. Mathmo

External Link
I am suspicious of the "Ironstruck" website listed as an external link. The author does not give out his name, or events he's participated in, which is very unusual for an Ironman athlete. So unusual, and in addition to the absence of detailed facts on the website, that I'm pretty certain that the writer of the site is not/has not been an actual participant.

I would recommend some more legitimate links instead: beginnertriathlete.com, or ironmanlive.com.

Links for Peter Reid
Links for Peter Reid (Ironman winner 1998, 2000,2003) are incorrect. They lead to a page for an English footballer of the same name. Link should be "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Reid_(Triathlon)"


 * Fixed Mathmo 01:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Spinning off pages for events
Should get around to individual pages for each event, rather than just a link to their website. Mathmo Talk 02:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Looking at the german wikipedia at the moment, they have a lot of full sized articles about various ironman events already. Mathmo Talk 21:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words
In "Today" section, "Many consider this to be the most difficult sport in the history of the world." Not cited, nor do I see any source you could get for this type of statement. Perhaps this part could be rephrased to talk about its relevance. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words


 * There is most definitely some weaselness going on in this article. If I get the chance in the next few days I will try to weed out some of the more obvious transgressions. Prost! Hammersbach (talk) 13:21, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

What are the specific times for each of the 3 parts?
I'm very interested in this but I couln'd find it. For example, I'm wondering what time they run on the marathon while they've already swum and cycled such a big distance. How much slower are they because of that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.190.253.129 (talk) 06:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC).
 * On www.ironman.com you can select events and find results. In Hawaii 2006 the best running times were 2:48:16 for men and 3:08:54 for women. They would lose maybe 20-30 minutes. I don't know if it was hot, it is often in Hawaii, that creates longer times. The best cycling time was 4:18:23 and 5:01:39. The best best swimming time seems to have been 53 min for men, but there can be an expert who is not so fast cyclist/runner further down in the list. 53 min is rather long time, probably rough water. A woman had 54.29, a very skilled swimmer. -- BIL 13:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

1982 Ironman Winner
The article lists and links to Kathleen_McCartney ( now Kathleen McCartney (dean) NSH001 (talk) 08:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC) ) as the winner of the 1982 edition. Yet the linked article describes only a Kathleen McCartney as the dean of Harvard Graduate Shcool of education, with no mention of any athletic background, let alone being the winner of Ironman. Maybe the link is incorrect and these are two different people? Wikihonduras 19:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I e-mailed the Dean at Harvard, and she confirmed to me that she is NOT the Ironman winner. I have now set up a separate stub article for the latter. --NSH001 (talk) 09:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Too WTC-centric, I think this article needs to mention existence of non-WTC events
I've done 4 WTC Ironman's over the last years so I know the topic somewhat and certainly know what a WTC-sponsored Ironman event is like. But as an avid reader of the triathlon magazines for years I also know there are quite a few popular Ironman distance triathlons that are not run by WTC.

If we had an article on cars that only mentioned GM and did not mention Ford, Toyota, Mercedes etc., I think that car article would not have a NPOV because it was only mentioning GM.

Right now this Ironman Triahtlon article mentions WTC again and again and never even hints that there are Ironman distance triathlons offered by other, non-WTC organizers and sponsors.

WTC is a for-profit company. They own the trademark to "Ironman", but they are not the only source of "Ironman distance" triathlons.

I propose adding something like this: "While the WTC owns the Ironman trademarks and hosts the majority of major Ironman races, it's important to note that "Ironman" also refers to the format and distance, and there are a number of large and very popular Ironman-distance triathlons held every year."

I also propose we add a link or two that point to triathlon magazines or websites that have fairly comprehensive listings of Ironman-distance events. Force316 01:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, this article is indeed too WTC-centric. On your proposed wording, we need to be neutral, so
 * we can't tell our readers what is "important", but we can give them the facts
 * we should avoid words like "popular"
 * avoid vague words such as "a number"
 * - better to mention the large triathlons by name, with numbers participating if appropriate, properly sourced. Also need to be careful about adding external links - see WP:EL --NSH001 10:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Wrong winning time for 1993
Allen's winning time was 8:07:45 (not 8:11:45) – the record time to date – as listed on ironman.com. --Anshelm &#39;77 (talk) 23:15, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Ironman & related articles - discussion on expansion
A discussion on future options for the arrangement of articles relating to Ironman Triathlon has been started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Triathlon. Comments from editors of this article are welcome, as we endeavour to meet the project goals of improving Wikipedia's coverage of triathlon.

Editors may also wish to consider supporting WikiProject Triathlon by adding your name to the project members section on the project page.

Yboy83 (talk) 11:28, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Why do they start with swimming??
anybody know why they have the order they do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.116.66 (talk) 17:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Answer:
Having the swim as the first event is much safer for the athletes.

If swimming were the second or third event, then the athletes' electrolytes are reduced during the swimming phase. Because of the reduced electrolytes, the athletes would be more likely to have a leg cramp during the swimming phase if the swimming were the second or third event. Having a leg cramp while swimming is a medical emergency that can lead to drowning.

Also, if an athlete is exhausted during the land events, the athlete can simply sit down. If swimming were the second or third event and the athlete became exhausted, the athlete could drown.

67.52.71.200 (talk) 04:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Cycling is before running, also for a safety reason. An exhausted athlete can sit down, but will probably avoid that on bicycling and would fall down or go outside the road or forget braking before a sharp curve or road crossing. The finish is the most demanding and is safer during running. --BIL (talk) 08:51, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't mean to sound rude, but I feel this question is important
A 17 hour race? Jesus man are you allowed to take a dump? There IS a bathroom break right? Sorry, the article does not talk about that anywhere.

67.148.120.84 (talk) 23:42, 9 April 2010 (UTC)stardingo747
 * Toilets are available. --BIL (talk) 05:42, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Beer
The section on the history mentions the first ironman where the runner-up's support team ran out of water and gave him beer. The included reference does not mention this happening. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheClassic (talk • contribs) 20:42, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Corrected. Hammersbach (talk) 12:20, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

IRONMAN: Fastest of all Time
Andreas RAELERT (GER) and Chrissie WELLINGTON (UKD) are the holders of the fastest IronMan of all time, got in Roth (GER) 2011. However, World Triathlon Corporation (WTC) don't recognize it, because, simply, Roth don't do part of its circuit. So, I put it after those records information.movimarx (talk)Movimarx (talk) 18:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

"Not recognized by World Triathlon Corporation (WTC)"
An editor keeps trying to insert this phrase (or something similar) into two of the descriptions of records set at Roth. I have removed this phrase for the following reasons:

Firstly, the WTC is not in the business of recognizing records; it is in the business of licensing its "Ironman" brand, and to that extent it can be said to "recognize" or "sanction" events held under that brand name (note: events, not records). Secondly, the different records ("Ironman"-branded and overall) are already described separately in the article.

Suggestions for improving the clarity of the article are welcome, but that is not achieved by adding not-quite-accurate statements.

--NSH001 (talk) 19:55, 3 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Is it false to say that WTC not recognize those records? Does WTC recognize it? I think it is not-quite-accurate to use the expression "Ironman distance" to refer to the record broken in Roth. In fact, it really happened, we know it, but nobody has the right to use this brand without permission, so, I guess important to inform to everyone about it, because someone could to participate in this event trying to classify to Kona.Movimarx (talk) 23:40, 3 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The WTC is in business to make money from its "Ironman" brand, not to recognise records. It doesn't have any of the status of, say, the IAAF, an independent international organisation which establishes, and obtains agreement for, the conditions under which records are recognised. The article already discusses the Ironman brand, and the different records applicable to Ironman-branded and non-Ironman-branded races. You are welcome to help make that distinction clearer if you wish, but not to attribute to the WTC an authority it doesn't have. In Wikipedia, we write articles according to what the sources say, and there are dozens of such sources which talk about these records. --NSH001 (talk) 14:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

WTC and everyone have the right to not recognize this or that. They haven't the right to block or forbid this or that, only justice does. Raelert and Wellington broke a Challenge distance record or what they want to denominate, not an IRONMAN® distance record (pay attention to the letter "R"). Even though it being the same thing, the market laws must be respected.Movimarx (talk) 00:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

can women do the iron man
General enquiry-can women do the Iron man triathlon or is it for men only?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.195.164.26 (talk) 12:56, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * They can and do, and do it quite well. There is a section in the article devoted to the top female "Ironmen". Hammersbach (talk) 13:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Units
A new editor keeps trying to state the units of distance with kilometres first, on the grounds that "SI units always come first". This is not the case. WP:UNIT states, in part: Nominal and defined values should be given in the original units first, even if this makes the article inconsistent. The distances for Ironman races have always been defined in miles, and so they should be presented first, as required by WP:UNIT. The new editor may have been thinking of the general requirement that SI units come first, but WP:UNIT indicates several exceptions to this rule, including: In non-science US-related articles: the main unit is generally a US customary unit (97 pounds (44 kg)), which additionally applies to this article.

There are two more good reasons why defined units are presented first:


 * 1) It would look pretty silly, for example, if Wikipedia said "Roger Bannister was the first man to break the 4-minute 1.609 km barrier."
 * 2) Defined units are usually a nice round number, while the converted figure will invariably need to be stated to a higher degree of precision; it is much neater to present such figures with the defined unit first. (This contrasts with case where some physical entity is being measured, where the measurements in both units should be given to the same degree of precision.)

--NSH001 (talk) 00:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Concur Hammersbach (talk) 00:28, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree. Plus, it would seem that by using this statement: "Collins calculated that by shaving 4.8 km off the course. . ." would be incorrect (instead of the round number, 3 miles) and would be a misrepresentation of what John Collins had intended/stated. (On a side note, this statement is unreferenced.)  Barkeep  Chat/''' 05:44, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

This is an international event and hence the US-related article section does not apply, instead the 'all-other articles' section should apply. In addition the defined values seems to apply to things that have the unit as an inherit part of the name, such as the 4-minute mile, a road sign in miles or perhaps a beach named Eight-Mile Beach. The Ironman equivalent of this would be the Ironman 70.3, which would not be translated as per the defined values. However, the length of the legs is simply a measurement of the distance and is not 'defined' as that value, rather it can equally be expressed as either. In common international usage these are usually expressed in km. Another example is the size of a tennis court. These were originally made to round feet values. However, with the majority of the world using metric values these are now expressed in terms of metres first as these are the main units, with the older imperial units in brackets. Eg "The court is 23.78 meters (78 feet) long" (See Tennis_court).

However, I will agree with Barkeep on the statement by Collins as this was a quote. However, in the distance measurements, the SI units are the main units and should come first.

--Rockyg123 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:03, 19 December 2011 (UTC).


 * Re the size of a Tennis court, the International Tennis Federation, on its website, defines the dimensions of the court in feet, and presents them correctly with the defined units first, followed by the metric equivalent in brackets. The diagram in the article follows this convention, as did Wikipedia's article itself until quite recently (17/8/2011), when it was changed by an IP editor; the Tennis court article should be changed back to comply with WP:UNIT. Ironman triathlon started in the United States, and the first Ironman races outside Hawaii were only held in the US. For this reason, this article is written in American English (see WP:ENGVAR) and is an additional reason for using US customary units, although the primary reason for using miles here remains the requirement to state defined units first, per WP:UNIT. --NSH001 (talk) 09:21, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I still don't believe the 'defined units' applies here. Defined units would apply to term 'Ironman 70.3' as this is part of the definition, but not to the lengths of the legs, espcially since in most countries these are now expressed in km first. Also, since events are now held worldwide, it should not be considered a US related article.
 * --Rockyg123 (talk) 09:42, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that as long as the World Triathlon Corporation lists the units in miles, then the article should list them as such. This is a United States based company, with international events. Any other Ironman articles outside of the U.S. (Ironman Germany, Kalmar Triathlon) should be listed first in km.  Barkeep  Chat/''' 15:05, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

distance conversion
A marathon is 42.0 km, not 42.2 km as in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.178.5.10 (talk) 16:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

RE: I disagree, a marathon is defined to be 42,195 km - not 42,0 km. Emul0c (talk) 11:00, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Fastest triathlon ran?
Article mentions fastest iron man triathlon ran in 3 hours 55 minutes by andrew clark in 2008. This is physically impossible, please remove. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.249.185.9 (talk) 10:41, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Notable Ironman athletes
I'm contemplating cutting down the 'Notable Ironman triathletes' section. If we went strictly by definition any athlete that had a Wikipedia article would meet the definition of notable, but I would like to see this section (if kept at all) to be reserved for the truly elite or remarkable accomplished athletes. Of course that measurement is completely subjective and can be argued about. In my mind (and feel free to disagree) the list should be - Men: Alexander, Allen, Van Lierde, McCormack, and Scott. Women: Badmann, Newby-Fraser, Wellington, and Carfrae.

This is not to discredit or belittle the accomplishments of those currently listed, but I think we are on a slippery slope if we start including specific qualifiers, which can be numerous (oldest to do an Ironman, youngest to do an IM, fist person with disability to do an IM, fastest person with a disability to do an IM, fastest person from Europe, most IMs in a season, etc.). I'd also like to see the sub-list on each athlete limited to around 3-4 bullet points. If the reader wants more detail they can read the athlete's article.  Barkeep  Chat/''' 15:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Running distance in intro
The length of a marathon is exactly 42.195 kilometers, which are 26.2187... miles. So, the value of "26.2 mi" as stated in the intro gives a an incorrect length in kilometers. So, we either have to reduce the conversion precision, giving "26.2 mi" or we have to increase the precision of the miles value, giving "26.22 mi". Since the other values in the intro are given with two digits precision, I would choose the latter. Spike (talk) 11:09, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Ironman Triathlon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121021064312/http://ironmanpromembership.com/im-qualifying/ to http://ironmanpromembership.com/im-qualifying/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110814025608/http://www.challenge-roth.com/en/news/newsmeldungen/2011_07_10-1.html to http://www.challenge-roth.com/en/news/newsmeldungen/2011_07_10-1.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110713060727/http://ironmanworldchampionship.com/qualification/ to http://ironmanworldchampionship.com/qualification/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 20:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

I noticed when trying to find the next upcoming triathlon that some of the dates are formatted in the American style (mm/dd/yy) and some as in Europe and elsewhere (dd/mm/yy). The sort function on the table appears to assume the American format — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.2.168.52 (talk) 07:45, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Column headers on table
I have made a couple of changes to the table, but 2 others seem very necessary.

The phrase "Australian exit" is used as a header, but is not explained in the text, nor in the main Triathlon article. I have read elsewhere to get an idea of what it is, but someone who knows the event better than I would describe it more confidently.

The columns to indicate the amount of climbing on the cycling and running legs do not have units, which renders the numbers in those columns meaningless.

The entire table is also unsourced, so one has no idea whether the info about laps is consistent year after year, or whether it refers to the course on one particular year, but we are not told when. Kevin McE (talk) 11:57, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

ironman movie
ironamn movie is good — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.195.223.170 (talk) 10:35, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Clint rules?
What does Clint rules mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.103.149 (talk) 19:46, 15 September 2019 (UTC)