Talk:Isaac Brock (musician)

Removed possible vandalism
I removed the final sentence of the entry that read " Judge, Justin "magician" Cole preceeded over the trial." At first I noticed that "preceeded" was likely intended to be "presided", and then I realized most judges don't have nicknames like amateur boxers, and the full sentence is probably junk. 70.108.70.148 00:20, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Identical article
Er. Forgive my lack of knowledge in editing this, but Last.fm has pretty much the same exact article about Isaac. http://www.last.fm/music/Isaac+Brock/+wiki I don't know who's copying who, I just thought it should be brought to attention. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.0.185.120 (talk • contribs) 9 March 2006.
 * The Last.fm article was copied from Wikipedia on Mar 4, 2006, 12:13; see the Last.fm page history. --Muchness 02:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Black eye?
Does anyone have any info about the black eye he had when he appeared on Comedy Central's New Years show thingy? They came out under the name of "Timid Turtle" - and he had a big black eye. Fight? Sgarza 18:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I remember at another public appearance, I think it was the grammys or something like that, on the red carpet (he was pretty drunk from what I remember) he said he had the make-up artist do it as a joke. Don't know how true that is though. 24.34.72.226 05:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * he got it at the last german show after a couple guys got too rowdy on booze and apparently threw a bottle at him after the show/before. see your magazines that cover this for an article from aroudn the time (im pretty sure its in pitchfork) 76.202.215.91 (talk) 04:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Sign posts, please!
Can we please sign our posts to the discussion pages? --Rhombus 21:45, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

What the heck does "balls to the wall" mean? --130.238.5.5 20:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balls_to_the_wall 97.135.126.45 (talk) 20:24, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I just had to go back and sign all my name to all my previous posts. I made an account cause I guess I'll be on more often... Also, I had to Google how to sign a post on Wikipedia several times and with various wording before I found (just use 4 tildes). I will not get into how many Wiki articles of songs I saw in the process. Night On The Sun (talk) 20:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

What doesnt that mean?
Heheh.... i dunno This guy is a great artist and has a great band

Shouldn't this mention, at least in passing, his obvious alcoholism?

-Nah, It's already blatent... But, it should give an example of his lyrics and mention his obvious genious.

i was told by the guy that introduced me to the band that he was a heroin addict up until their most recent cd, which featured float on (and i know how terrible this sounds), but that that is why their latest cd wasnt so great.

Bull C#@P
I know most of this article is BS. I grew up with Isaac in Issaquah and graduated at the same high school in 1994(this is bull shit isacc droped out after tenth grade dont belive me go to youtube and look at all 5 parts of the modest mouse untitled documentary). I saw where he lived from the time he was in 4th grade till 8th then we ran in diffrent circles. He lived in appartments next to the elementry school. He then went to the alternitive high school. As far as the father thing I dont know and before that I dont know and after high school I dont know. But best of luck to him. Its all nice on ice apparently.

Signed

Future MD of America —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.147.3.25 (talk • contribs) 16:36, 10 May 2006.


 * Without verifiable sources we can't add this info to the article – see WP:V. --Muchness 09:12, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems to be vandalism/nonsense...If you really grew up with him, prove it...I don't know how you would, but whatever. Arnesh 11:13, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * na, alot of the band stories are pretty made up. esp the ugly cassanova stuff, which they have admited making up. honestly ive always felt this story was little too ridiculous to be real, but its all part of the modest mouse grandeur68.45.172.216 07:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Probaby true, but you can't put uncited info in the article. I've heard lots of different stories of Mouse's background, but this one is pretty much the only one with a citation. A lot of the things don't add up too, like the fact that the memebers on Sad Sappy Sucker, their first recordings, was made up of Isaac, Jeremiah, Dann, and John, but they said that in their very beginnings, the band just started with Isaac, Jeremiah, and Eric. Heh, this band seems to be shrouded in rumors and bullshit. Oh well... Arnesh 11:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I've heard many different versions of Isaac's story. Most, however, say he grew up in a trailer and is actually, as of 2007, 32 years old, http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/modestmouse/articles/story/6298112/modest_mouse_roar. Donomight 03:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe him.The Saint Fink (talk) 00:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * why don't you geniuses actually cite the documentary? 76.202.215.91 (talk) 04:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a music forum/myspace
Half of the posts on this talk page have nothing to do with this article and are basically just are arguements that basically boil down to "Modest Mouse sucks! Brock is an asshole!" or "Brock's lyrics have changed my life.", etc. Even talk pages have limits. I'm going to remove these unconstructive comments. Only post things that will actually improve this article. Arnesh 11:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we should be lenient as to what is placed on the discussion pages. 80.47.225.147 12:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Too bad. Arnesh 11:35, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Accent/Lisp?
I know this sounds rude, but I really like I'm not sure. if it's an accent or a lisp that he has, but I like the tone it brings to his voice. Does anyone happen to know anything about this? JavaDog 22:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Brock does have a lisp, but maybe he recognizes and accepts it. It make him individual as a singer.

63.3.67.132 06:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)Don B.


 * I rather favor it. I was wondering if it has some kind of name to it? JavaDog 01:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it's worth including in the article. Singers with lisps are pretty rare. Singers with lisps who get covered on 'American Idol' are 1.


 * he has a lisp, and a unique singing style. there's various articles (unremembered by the poster) that mention this, or have him talking about his unique sing-talking style and how people didn't really like it, and if they booed they'd play "crazy gnome". 76.202.215.91 (talk) 04:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * what is a lisp?--The Saint Fink (talk) 02:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Self Mutilation
http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/Isaac_Brock_SelfMutilates_at_South_Dakota_Gig#41806 This seems notable, and there is your source, which links to 2 YouTube videos further validating the claim. Is this potential libelous? FerventDove 22:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but I think it should also be mentioned that this isn't the first time hes done this. He's cut himself on stage before as part of his performance. This one just got more out of hand. But thats never mentioned in any article about that show. It should be here. Here is a video of a 2002 show in which he cuts himself: Clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQhmh5H6WE Full Show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thd7sycS4CQ Its just something he does on stage, simular to when Jimi Hendrix would smash his guitar, etc.

This section was removed, but I reverted it. In my eyes, it doesn't violate Living Person standards, but if others feel differently, we could go to a vote. It's well sourced, neutral in tone and otherwise encyclopedic in style. FerventDove 18:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Drug Use
Brock's drug use isn't really mentioned in his article for whatever reason. While playing Out Of Gas from a live 1997 Seattle show I can clearly hear him say "out of speed out of crank out of blow out of what I need to go." Powerful stuff (just my biased opinion) - if anyone wants to use it in any additions to this article. 76.17.40.86 18:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

While very interesting and believable, original research, and unsourced. If anyone has a good citation regarding Mr. Brock's use of psychotropic substances, it would be very useful in this article. FerventDove 18:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of songs where Isaac, directly or indirectly, references drugs. (Truckers Atlas, Interstate 8, All Night Diner, The Good Times Are Killing Me, Other People's Lives, etc). If anyone has or can dig up enough information to add it to the article, it would be appreciated. Serival (talk) 22:11, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * When songs reference something, it doesn't mean they're about the songwriter or singer personally. TooManyFingers (talk) 22:56, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Several Modest Mouse songs (most notably Stars Are Projectors, Neverending Math Equation, Working on Leaving the Living, 3rd Planet) have lyrics with themes pertaining to use of psychedelics. This could be worth noting, since this class of substances is quite distinct from others, and seems to have had a pretty strong effect on or at least resonance with the larger cosmic/religious themes in MM's body of work...? In "The Good Times are Killing Me" Isaac refers explicitly to LSD as well. -Metempsychotic (talk) 18:20, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

also isaac refers to the the bible and he is not religious —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.134.24 (talk) 22:02, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * he is agnostic, or was for most of the career of modest mouse to this date.. although he's changed many things in his life and cleaned up.. dropped drugs, etc... his religious status is debatable, and various sources would be contradictory. a lyrical 'source' of former agnosticism.. "I was in heaven, I was in hell; believe in neither but fear them as well" (from Doin' The Cockroach)76.202.215.91 (talk) 04:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Doin' The Cockroach seems to be about a limbo-like hell businessmen lived in; I highly doubt it was about himself. But if it was about him, believing in neither heaven nor hell would denote atheism, not agnosticism. Night On The Sun (talk) 20:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Age
Um.. wasn't he born in 1975? I recall a documentary that was made in 97 (it's on youtube) in which he is shown buying beer, and tells a story about how he was arrested for drinking because "no one was 21 yet." This means he was 21 or older when this documentary was made in 97, which means he couldn't have been born in 77.

"offshoot circles?"
What does it mean to say that Brock and his mother "moved around in different offshoot circles?" Does that mean suburbs? Social circles? Offshoots of what? A religion?
 * his mother was in cults and dragged him to some of them (to find my articles for sources later)76.202.215.91 (talk) 04:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

78.131.23.90 (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Place of birth changed
This lad was born in Helena, Montana per: http://plowshareforge.blogspot.com/2008/05/memorial-day-weekend-final-second.html Stjoan1 (talk) 15:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I see where you are getting your info., but blogs are not a reliable reference, generally speaking. Please see these sources: http://www.answers.com/Isaac+Brock+musician?cat=entertainment, http://www.last.fm/music/Isaac+Brock/+wiki, http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=7204 (this interview he mentions his hometown of Issaquah).--Startstop123 (talk) 15:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I know this is unusual but the blog is written by the musician's father and I know him personally. His hometown is not his birthplace. Stjoan1 (talk) 19:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion
Hello, a third opinion was requested. And I will try to provide one.

Currently I don't find any of the given sources convincing. The weblog entry states to be of intention to "stir some shit" and then follows up by the claim that Isaac was born at "Helena, Montana", while acknowledging that every online biography says he was born in Issaquah, Washington. I'm also not convinced that the weblog entry is written by Isaac Brock's father, or that User:Stjoan1 knows him (I hope you understand anyone can make such a claim). Then for the sources stating it is "Issaquah, Washington". The article from answers.com is a copy of wikipedia material, it can not be used as source for wikipedia. The last.fm is an open wiki, that cannot be used as source either. Finally The Stranger does not state a place of birth.

Unless a convincing and reliable source is found, see: WP:BLP, the material can (and should) be removed from the article. Species8473 (talk) 20:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You may call him yourself. The author of the blog is Dan Brock. The following page gives enough contact information for anyone that wants to convince Mr. Brock that this young man is not his son and doesn't know where he was born.  The blog is just a part of his overall site, which he uses to sell knives that he makes himself and of which I am a customer as well.  This is my only attempt at making a change to a Wiki entry so I have no motivation.  If you want the information to be incorrect than by all means go ahead.  But at least contact his dad.  Just don't get your feelings hurt by his response. You need verification of a parent than knock yourself out.  Tell them Culpeper (Bellicini) from Blade Forums sent you.
 * http://homepage.mac.com/dbrock76/Personal12.html
 * Stjoan1 (talk) 02:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)Stjoan1''


 * Accepting that all what you say is true, I would still doubt if the weblog entry classifies as a reliable source. In this case I see reason to be extra careful. Because there are contradicting sources (even though they may have gotten the information from wikipedia), because the article is a biography of a living person, and for what is written at early life in the article. To prevent further edit warring, both now and in the future. It would be great if an extra source is available that we can all agree on is reliable. Until then, let's just leave it out. It can however be mentioned that Isaac Brock grew up in Issaquah (Washington) 12 Species8473 (talk) 04:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I must say that I do find the theory that other internet biographies have gotten the wrong information from wikipedia plausible. As it was already added to the article during 2004 without citation.1 I have left a note on the talk page of the involved wikipedia editor. Species8473 (talk) 04:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Atheism
Just brief question: Is "not really religious" synonymous with atheism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.51.131.217 (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

No, that would be Agnostic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.254.252.163 (talk) 16:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's agnosticism either. Atheism denotes "not religious or spiritual", while agnosticism denotes unsureness in the existence of a god. The closest I can think of is deism, which describes god as a creator, but not a controller, therefore not requiring constant praise. Night On The Sun (talk) 20:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Encyclopedic content?
im sorry to say that but this article is REALLY bad. i feel like im reading some gossip tabloid "what a bad guy!" maybe we could focus on musical content?--MIRROR (talk) 21:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Isaac Brock seems to be a pretty reserved guy. It looks like people are just writing what they can get their hands on. Night On The Sun (talk) 20:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Modest Mouse no longer indie
Is it accurate to still call Modest Mouse "indie"? I thought that indie was short for independent, meaning that they self release, which is what they were in the beginning. But now that they've signed with Sony, are they still considered indie?

Thanks in advance. Night On The Sun (talk) 20:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Anecdotal, but Modest Mouse is my favorite band and I'd certainly consider myself an "indie kid," but would never dream of calling Modest Mouse an indie band. They're on Epic, they're not independent, they're not indie. -Rmzy717 (talk) 02:11, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Attempted Murder Charge
Wasn't he charged with attempted murder following a DUI incident? Maybe that should be mentioned in the personal life section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.46.97 (talk) 18:01, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Only if you can provide a reliable reference. Canterbury Tail   talk  00:20, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * He dislocated the thumb of someone who gave him some laughing gas, in Oregon that's considered attempted murder.. Dougweller (talk) 11:41, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Grace Gospel Church and a useful new source
Reinstated material about the church using a Guardian interview which has more material.. Dougweller (talk) 11:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Good job on getting the Grace Church material properly sourced. I came to edit this article because the original editor seemed to have an agenda. All their edits were over a brief period of time, and they added almost the same thing across a number of different articles. I believe they were acting in good faith, and the assertions may or may not be true, but the referencing was horrible. I also felt that factual or not, their tunnel vision focus on the religious heritage of various entertainers seemed to ignore the context of the individual articles and how relevant or important the fact may be there. Willondon (talk) 14:15, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Although Brock does seem to see it as significant in his case. Dougweller (talk) 14:24, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * And Wikipedia unfolds as it should. Reviewing the original editor's opus, all of the edits were reversed by various editors of the corresponding articles, except for this one. I'm happy to see the edit stay as is. I think the original editor was acting in good faith, and between you me and he, Wikipedia is improved a bit at a time. Willondon (talk) 15:05, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

"Rape Allegations" section repeatedly blanked
It seems like some fans of Brock's work are taking it upon themselves to repeatedly vandalize the "Rape allegations" section. It's important to note that this is an important, encyclopedic controversy that, at the time, caused a notable volume of drama in the Pacific Northwest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.169.67.214 (talk) 21:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The amount of text seems far in excess of its relative importance to the "Personal life" section. I don't know what "encyclopedic controversy" means, but maybe its import needs to be established with some sources. Not sources that attest to the events or statements, but a source that says that, in the bigger scheme of things, this is an important item to include in a biography of the subject.


 * I mention this because recent edits persist again to remove this whole section. There hasn't been any explanation by the editors yet, but so far, your comment is the only thing I've seen defending its inclusion. If it can't be defended more than that, I can see a good case for getting rid of it. Willondon (talk) 23:11, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

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Daughter b. 2018
Given the statement on Brock's relationship with Lisa Molinaro, it would seem reasonable to conclude that this child was born to her; this interview- https://www.ploverorganic.com/blogs/good-in-bed/lisa-molinaro-musician- indicates her to be living with Brock in February 2018. At any rate the statement in the article is marked as requiring a citation. Presumably this- https://hightimes.com/culture/music/cheap-therapy-modest-mouse-using-cannabis-better-mental-health/ - is the "High Times" source mentioned, which provides: "On the other hand, Brock, who is also a new father, has his reservations. 'I got a newborn daughter and I’m not looking forward to not being around her for five months,' Brock admits." The site states this feature was originally published in the July 2018 issue of High Times magazine. Given the fact that in February 2018 Lisa Molinaro was established as living with Brock, and by July that year the daughter was born, it seems not unlikely that the child is hers. However, discussion started "8 months ago" on the band's Reddit (naturally, not encyclopaedic)- https://www.reddit.com/r/ModestMouse/comments/e648sb/is_it_true_that_isaac_brock_has_kids/ - seems to indicate otherwise, with some commenting Brock and Molinaro broke up "two years ago" (i.e. 2018), notwithstanding the Plover Organic interview with Lisa Molinaro. Just thought these details belonged here if only "for the record"! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.68.54 (talk) 23:37, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Name
Was he intentionally named for the British/Canadian army officer who died in 1812? TooManyFingers (talk) 22:09, 23 September 2023 (UTC)