Talk:Islam in the African diaspora

Page creation
let me explain the creation of this page. I do not agree with the redirect of this to Nation of Islam, so I created this article instead. --Revolución (talk) 07:41, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I have moved the redirect because I think there is enough to merit a different non-NOI "Black Muslim" page, especially with the late Yusuf Bey in the news so much. I don't know how best to categorize this article. Any attention from someone who knows more than I do would be great. Ben-w 20:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

This article is certainly needed. This article deals with Black Muslims as a whole. "Who are Black Muslims?" is the best question to address with the article.--JuanMuslim 1m 16:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Explanation
Ehm, what about an explanation for why black Americans turn to Islam, a religion they have absolutely nothing to do with?

because they were muslim when they were brought over from africa, as slaves! before they were forced to convert to xianity! returning to ROOTS!

BTW are you as curious about why people who have nothing to do w/ xianity convert to that religion?

Keith Ellison
Keith Ellison is from Minnesota, not Michigan. Someone more involved than I should verify and change this detail.

How is the fact discussed among the black muslims that there is also slavery in Islam?
No slavery in Islam? My friend, you surely do not know much about early Islamic history! see: -- lit
 * http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm
 * http://www.brandeis.edu/projects/fse/Pages/islamandslavery.html
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_slavery

And: Is there really NO racism in Islam? 213.196.243.65 18:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)-- (a curious white, though NOT a christian!)
 * There is plenty of racism in Islam. See Ibn Khaldun for an example.--Sefringle 05:01, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't mind the above liar. Take a look at this page which has some good quotes.

Racism in Islam? No such thing. Many Islamic prophets were blacks. In Islam people are not judged on the colour of the skin. However people that follow Islam could be racist, this does not mean that Islam is a religion that permits or teaches this. Its really a stupid question, its like asking an alien whether humans are racist or not, the answer is yes, some are but they can be of any religion, and be of any colour. Some Muslims are racist, some Christians are racist, some Jews are racist, etc etc, and there is no faith that accepts racism and there is no faith that does not have racist followers (there are always a few bad eggs). As i said before the religion in not racist, people are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.84.44 (talk • contribs)
 * Yawn.-- Sef rin gle Talk 23:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * >> Racism in Islam? No such thing


 * Have you read this :
 * "[Al-Imran 3:106] On the Day when (some) faces will be whitened and (some) faces will be blackened; and as for those whose faces have been blackened, it will be said unto them: Disbelieved ye after your (profession of) belief? Then taste the punishment for that ye disbelieved. "


 * or this:
 * "[az-Zumar 39:60] And on the Day of Resurrection thou (Muhammad) seest those who lied concerning Allah with their faces blackened. Is not the home of the scorners in hell? "
 * .. -- lit
 * Did you know the Qur'an is not meant to be taken 100% literally? Even a complete idiot would see that whitened and blackened does not mean painting someone's face.--Hamster X (talk) 12:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Black Muslim List
there alot more black muslims in america this the ones listed, i listed half a dozen of the top of my head, a couple of hours ago, why has some deleted them.

Muhammad Ali, Professional Boxer

Chamillionaire, Rapper

Rasaq, Rapper

Karim Abdul-Jabbar, Professional NFL football

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Professional basketball player/Coach

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Professional basketball player

Muhsin Muhammad, American football player

Michael Jackson, American musician

Jermaine Jackson, Former member of The Jackson 5 and brother of American pop stars Michael Jackson


 * There's a big, big difference between Muslims who are black and "Black Muslims". Race is not an important distinction in real Islam, while it is the ONLY distinction in "Black Muslims" and NOI type groups (which are not Islamic). It's absurd to lump them together; this list suggests that people like Dave Chappelle support idiots like Bey, and the Nation of Islam, which isn't true. 216.231.46.147 00:41, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

What has this page got to do with African American
Black Muslims can come from alparts of the world, not just America!! so why is there only talk on NOI and African Americans. Rubbish page

globelize article
For the purpose of making this article less US-centric and more globel, I am considering removing the African American template. Any objections?-- Sef rin gle Talk 04:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a globalized version of this article is needed but, I also think that there are enough notable groups of Black American Muslims to warrant their own article. Perhaps we need two pages. Islam in the African Diaspora and Black Muslims (United States). I propose moving the content on this page to the latter and then turning this into a disambiguation page. CJ 11:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the more proper title would then be African American muslims.-- Sef rin gle Talk 03:12, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * How about redirecting one to the other? Just so it's clearly associated because that's the terminology that's used here. Kind of like with Black church. CJ 21:10, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I just thought of another problem. There already is an article called Islam in the United States. Chances are if we make this article about African American muslims, it will be merged into that article.-- Sef rin gle Talk 23:04, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd still go for it. If it gets merged, it gets merged. If the content is substantial enough then it'll get split out again. CJ 00:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

help me understand?
Wallace Fard Muhammad who started the NOI was Eurpoean, so why would he preach against whites?

Is NOI a relgion or a 'cultural movement"?

If it is a religion, where do thier core belifes stem from? In other words, what religion is it most comonly linked to?

Does the NOI take any offical stand on Yakub? If so, what is it?

I understand for the need for the NOI in the 50's and 60's but now a days people are more focused on teaching and preaching about tolerence, so why does all the NOI information still seem anti-white? (I am not so naive to belive everyone is tolerent, what i mean is that it's gotten better since the 50's)

Please outline as much information as you, in a clear matter, because i am finding everything on the NOI very contradicting & i am looking to learn more

Black Muslim Bakery
Police raid bakery investigated by slain editor Officials nab 19; operation reportedly connected to Oakland killing. Is this relevant to the article? 208.203.4.140 21:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Colaboration
I'm looking for some help on improving this article. The article needs to be globalized and referenced. And depending on what we get from various places it may need to be split into multiple articles. Thanks for anyone who can offer any help. CJ 19:09, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

New title
Great idea, but I think it may be the wrong title. The African diaspora is the forced dispersal of Africans from Africa, but many (most?) Black Muslims live in Africa, a fact this article seems to acknowledge — unless Islam in the African Diaspora is intended solely as historical background.

Also, just to pick nits, "diaspora" in the title shouldn't be capitalized. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 19:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea I noticed the latter after I did it. I just haven't fixed it yet. As far as the diaspora goes, I thought it included Africans in Africa. I guess the title will need some more changing. *sigh*. How does "Islam in Africa and the African diaspora" sound, or "Muslims of African descent". Thanks. CJ 22:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't sweat it, it's a common mistake. Emerge (a monthly "Black news" magazine) used to have a page called "Diaspora Watch" with stories about what was going on in Africa.
 * In terms of a new title, I don't have any suggestions. Maybe you should keep this article focused on the diaspora, as there's already Islam in Africa. I just stumbled across Template:Islam by country, which may be helpful. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 23:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * We should also move Black Jews to Judaism in African Diaspora too as well for consistency.  Yahel  Guhan  04:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Malik. Good suggestions as usual.
 * Yahel, that's an issue that should be raised on the Black Jews Talk page. CJ 08:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to chime in in support of these name changes! Can was change "Black Jews" too? That one always bugged me. futurebird 13:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

List of notable black Muslims
Should we really create a list of such Muslims. We already have tens, and we may end up with about a hundred (maybe more) such persons. Shouldn't this article give meaningful coverage to the history and culture of black Muslims?

A second problem is the inclusion of NOI persons in this list. Fard Muhammad and Elijah Muhammad may not be considered Muslims by mainstream scholars, because they claimed to be God and prophet respectively.Bless sins 01:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You do realize that the only NOI people on the list right now are Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakan right. Brother Malcolm and Muhammad Ali left the NOI to become Sunni Muslims. There are a ton of other individuals listed in the page comments right below that list and it's my intention over time to make that list short and reflective of the entire diaspora and not just the NOI. If you'd like to help by finding references for notable people to include in the list then please do so. CJ 14:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That is why I self reverted. Bless sins 20:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

How's Bilal Ibn Rabah a Shia Muslim? 87.213.42.195 (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Table formatting
I reverted an editor just because the edit had messed up the formatting and now trying to add some names I've messed it up myself. Sorry, and I'm going to ask for help with this. Itsmejudith 08:47, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Jacksons
An earlier post mentioned both Jermaine and Michael Jackson. Jermaine I was aware of from his appearance on the Celebrity Big Brother reality TV show in the UK, but that is obviously not an adequate source. And is there a source for Michael? Itsmejudith 21:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Adherents.com has Michael listed as a member of NOI. But with regard to the list, many of the ones that aren't sourced are going to be pulled out completely probably at the end of the month. It's way too US heavy anyhow. CJ 23:11, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

"5% Nation".
Not a single Muslim on the face of the earth, be they Sunni, Shi'ite, or otherwise, would agree that this bizarre American cult is in any way, shape, or form Islamic. I suggest that all inferences otherwise be removed from this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.18.122 (talk) 20:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Like it or not, the group claims to be Muslim. The article describes the group as "an offshoot of the Nation of Islam (NOI), which was already viewed by traditional Muslims as heretical". — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 00:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

problems with the article
The article doesn't match the title. By definition, Africans in Africa are not the diaspora. So, the section "Islamic heritage in Africa" is pretty useless. The only non-African area covered, is the U.S.. Islam is obviously a global religion, and the African diaspora portion isn't special. Even if we need an article for Muslims of African decent, why split the diaspora off? The redirect Black Muslims should return to Nation of Islam, as that's the one group it's been used consistently to refer to (we can then, mention there any offshoot). The section "List of notable Muslims in the African diaspora" should be eliminated, or made a separate article. The fact the list is almost exclusively American, shows it probably can't be fully maintained. In general this article can never be much good, as it splits related things, and merges unrelated things. --Rob (talk) 03:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * From my experience with the topic, I would say it is an important issue. Just as we have articles dealing with Islam in certain countries, such as Islam in Iran, Islam in Greece (separate from Greek Muslims), Islam in Japan, and so forth, this would be a valid topic. Islam was integral to the African-American Civil Rights Movement, and is frequently discussed in African-American literature and music, for example 50 Cent's Ghetto Qur'an, or some of Tupac's songs (his mother was Muslim). Muhammad Ali was the virtual face of Islam only a few decades ago, and we can't pin this all on the Nation of Islam technically that community converted to Sunni Islam with a small minority actually joining the recreated Nation of Islam. There is a large amount of influence of Islam in the African-American community, and perhaps that is what this article should be changed to, Islam among African-Americans. -- ♥ pashtun ismailiyya  03:25, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I would support an article titled Islam among African-Americans, as long as it didn't overweight the NOI, like this article does. I still don't really see much content in this article worth retaining.  --Rob (talk) 06:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with altering the scope somewhat. The current article does seem to be an amalgamation of different topics. I think the Muslim heritage of African Americans and its history is a topic discussed in reliable sources, but the issue is one of how this should be presented (i.e. as its own article, or as a section in another article).  ITAQALLAH   21:53, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Seeing Race
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