Talk:Islamic University of Applied Sciences Rotterdam

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BetacommandBot 05:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
The article is filled with texts promoting the importance of this university thus providing a (IMHO) unbalanced view. Nothing of it is referenced. Claims made concerning status (University title is protected in Dutch Law) need to sourced. Consider for example the opening history section (it is not limited to this, just as an example):
 * The presence of Muslims and Islam in the Netherlands is a social and historical fact.Comment: why is this relevant? Since the 1960s, Muslims have been allowed to establish mosques, foundations and organizations by virtue of Dutch law.Comment: is there any pre 1960 law forbidding this?, if so mention and reference In accordance with constitutional rights, Muslims have recently founded Islamic primary and secondary schools within a framework of financial support from the Dutch government and under laws organizing the educational system in the Netherlands. In 1997 the IUR was founded as a result of initiatives taken by Muslims living in the Netherlands. Since then the IUR has established itself as a Dutch UniversityComment: was it recongised as University according to Dutch law (that is not easy!, and if it was this needs a reference) and more importantly as an intellectual contribution of Muslims to Dutch society. There has been general agreement among the founders as regard the IUR as a social necessity for Muslims and non-Muslims in Dutch society.Comment: POV of the founders is hardly neutral.

This article needs a lot of work. Arnoutf (talk) 18:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Status of this school?
I cannot find this school on the NVAO (Dutch accreditaiton board), nor on the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences site. What is its legal status if these bodies do not mention it. Arnoutf (talk) 18:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * According to the dutch wikipedia, the university is not recognized. Note the difference between the (dutch) term 'universiteit' and the (english) term 'university', and the fact that IUR only makes use of the latter: the dutch term is a legally protected and can only be used by recognized institutions, while the english term is not protected, and can be used by anyone. Math1985 (talk) 17:22, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * On their Dutch language website they DO use the term "Universiteit", as well as in their logo (see infobox in the article); a phrase which I agree is protected; and which should be supported by recognition of the official system.
 * Also, as they say in the Wiki article they provide "academic education at graduate and undergraduate level" For these levels to be recognised there cirruculum should be accredited by a recognised accreditation body. Which body is evaluating this institution??
 * My problem is still that I find no reference to any body supporting them Arnoutf (talk) 18:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Having some knowledge about the accredition of institutes of higher learning, having worked in a related field, but having no knowledge of this institute, I checked the websites of the Informatie Beheer Groep, which has a registry of all accredited education programmes, as well as that of the NVAO, the Dutch-Flemish accreditation institute. Neither has any entry for this institute, or any mention of its degree courses. I also found an article from October 2008 on a website from the local Rotary Club, in which the general secretary of the institute was interviewed, who admitted they had no accreditation yet. The secretary also oversimplified the process, stating that when the institute had received accreditation, their degrees would be officially recognized. This is in fact, incorrect. Even an accedited institute needs separate accreditation for each and every degree course, in fact even for every variant of such a course. As this basically constitutes original research, I only added a brief mention of the article itself. I also found an older report by the Dutch Ministry of Education, Culture and Sciences, http://www.minocw.nl/documenten/ho-doc-2003-imamopleiding.pdf, which states that, at least at that time, the university was issueing degrees which are not recognized officially, but since the report is from about six years ago, I didn't include it. At the very least, there is no evidence to the contrary.

I believe this fact to be fundamental, without proper accredition, students will receive degrees which are basically meaningless, as they will not be internationally, or even nationally, recognized. Students would also not be eligible for government student loans, as the general secretary explicitly states in the article. If anything should be included in this article, it is that. Without proper certification, it is not an institute of higher learning, as the very basis of that qualification is being able to issue your own, valid, degrees. As far as can be determined, this is not (yet) the case, even if it may be in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.85.172.58 (talk) 14:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Reinstated article
The article was deleted except for intro 2 lines by an anonymous editor 83.83.224.127 in July 2009. He/she has no other edits (just this drastic delete), no talk and feedback, no message, no follow up. Of course I am not a fan of this type of article at all, and it needs a huge amount of re-edting. But deleting a huge amount of data in a 10-second job never to revisit Wikipedia again doesn't fair well with the editor's behaviour and intentions. Now the article is here again and it is for everyone to discuss and edit, and hopefully people more commited to Wikipedia to deal with its multiple issues. werldwayd (talk) 04:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Rewriting a bit
I am trying to bring some order in this article, and remove some of the items that seem to have been copied directly from the website. I have started with the intro. Put in a reference to said website, removed not really relevant poorly referenced organizations, and put some more emphasis on the fact that only one course is actually accredited (search on https://apps.ib-groep.nl/MCROHO/pages/zoeken.jsf brin = 30GW). Bas van Leeuwen (talk) 09:08, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Removed the two sentences in the history section. They do not really add to what is already stated in the intro. Instead I have added a short piece on the location in Rotterdam. If the sections obejctives, mission and vision are compared to other university websites, I would say that only a mission statement seems appropriate. This has been copied from the website. The Cooporation section contained unreferenced material (citation was asked already in july 2010), so it was removed. I could not find reliable information regarding the 'islam in the west' chair, supposedly cooperating with official universities in the Netherlands. Bas van Leeuwen (talk) 09:38, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The education section has been shortened. I would propose to delete the entire research part, but will wait a bit until I get some feedback on the other edits. Bas van Leeuwen (talk) 10:53, 18 October 2011 (UTC). Since I have not heard anything, I will remove the research section. Bas van Leeuwen (talk) 21:17, 23 October 2011 (UTC)