Talk:Islamic honorifics

Archive of Talk:Peace be upon him

PBUH and SAW
Which of the phrases in the article directly match that phrase abbreviated 'PBUH'? Which would be abbreviated as 'SAW'? It would be nice for people who have seen PBUH to know which phrase was equivalent. Shenme 02:38, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it is "Alayh-es-salat-u wa-s-Salam" though it means "Upon him exaltations and peace". --  FayssalF  - Wiki me up ®  11:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * PBUH is the initials of English "Peace be unto Him". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:02, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

"honorifics" is a misapplication
This page being called "Islamic honorifics" is unnecessarily confusing. In the first place, as noted in the article itself, what is listed in the article are not properly considered "honorifics" the way that English honorifics are. In the second, because there are several articles that use it for people like the English (cultural) version does -- Indian honorifics, Italian honorifics, French honorifics -- the fact that this one uses it in a devotional manner makes it confusing. I'm not sure what the correct term for these phrases are but I suggest that someone more versed in Islam make a change. Thegreatmuka (talk) 15:20, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

redirecting and restoring article
I fear I have messed up the article separating it from the talk page. Islamic honorifics had been redirected to salat which was a rather big mistake IMHO, but arguably it should be redirected to Salawat. In my defense I have to say the stock phrases of Subhanahu wa-ta’ala, etc. appear very frequently in Islamic literature and non-Muslims could use an explanation for them. --BoogaLouie (talk) 03:10, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

If others have a better title for the article I'm open to suggestion but as I wrote in the article:

The term durood may be limited to the prophets in Islam, or go beyond "conventionally complimentary phrases" into short prayers,[6][7] honorifics for scholars or companions follow the same pattern as durood but are not prayers. --BoogaLouie (talk) 03:24, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose to merge Peace be upon him into Islamic honorifics. The former article as currently written actually deals with much more than the Arabic phrase عليه السلام ʿalayhi s-salām or ﷺ ṣallā -llāhu ʿalayhī wa-sallam, but in fact includes much of the content of this page. On 11 March I posted a discussion on the Peace be upon him Talk page suggesting that we either narrow the scope of that article or collapse the two together. So far, the only respondent has been Austronesier, who proposed that the two should be merged, but should be merged carefully: In some cases, the information at Peace be upon him is better than that on this page. At this point, I would like to move forward pursuing that course of action, but I of course wish to do so with meaningful consensus. If this conversation does not generate more participation than that in the Peace be upon him Talk page, I'll post an RfC to seek more input. Pathawi (talk) 07:41, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
 * You have edited one of these two pages in the past year & may have an opinion on the matter. I wasn't sure what criterion to use for potentially interested editors, so I went broad. Please do ignore this if you don't care about the matter, & forgive the ping. Pathawi (talk) 12:42, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree to the merge. - Abdul Muhsy  talk  14:58, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

If Peace be upon Him's usage as a Jewish honorific doesn't warrant a page of its own, neither should its use as an Islamic one. Glide08 (talk) 15:19, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

If they're all sperate topics, religion's and this have separate meaning to those faiths shouldn't they then remain separate as in regards to the respect of each religion? Merging them into one page doesn't pay respect or show adequately the meaning to each religion respectively... Jmurphy042000 (talk) 03:01, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

To be more specific they have different meanings to each faith or religion. One may have different or less meaning than it does to another and the words may vary slightly, especially when it comes to translation Jmurphy042000 (talk) 03:02, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I think there may be a misunderstanding. This isn't a proposal to merge articles about the Arabic/Islamic & Hebrew/Jewish phrases translated into English as 'Peace be upon him/her/them': It's about merging two articles exclusively about Islamic speech practices which—as currently written—cover largely overlapping content. There is no article exclusively on the Hebrew phrase, & no current proposal to merge articles related to Judaism & Islam. I think what Glide08 is saying is that since the comparable Hebrew phrase is incorporated into a larger article on Judaism, the Arabic phrase shouldn't have a page of its own, & should be incorporated into a page on Islam. I hope I'm not misrepresenting their point. Pathawi (talk) 05:11, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I meant. Glide08 (talk) 11:20, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

I've begun the merger. I am doing some clean-up, but am mostly working on making sure that nothing gets lost. A lot of cleaning is needed. Pathawi (talk) 15:35, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

RfC on Merger from Peace be upon him
Should the content of Peace be upon him be merged into Islamic honorifics? Pathawi (talk) 00:06, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge I am, of course, the one making the proposal. There's been a little conversation at Talk:Peace be upon him. In brief, that page as it stands goes far beyond the phrase in its title and covers much the same content as this page. In some cases it does so better. As this page has the more general title, & as there's been little substantive editing on the other page specifically related to the phrase عليه السلام 'peace be upon him', I propose that the contents of that page be merged into this one. Pathawi (talk) 06:28, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * This is not a RfC matter. Please proceed according to WP:Merging, you've already done step 1 so the next is WP:MERGE. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 07:53, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Idiomatic English
I don't suppose there's any point by this time in mentioning it, but: in English we wish peace be with someone, not upon them. It's just a fluke of linguistics that Arabic does many things with the one preposition  'alā that other languages do with other prepositions, and if the English versions of these honorifics tend to wish peace "upon" people, it's only because someone, possibly long ago, was ridiculously over-literal in their translation. Wegesrand (talk) 14:13, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

New
I read the Indonesian version of this article and found some interesting parts that might not be here. need to be added? ꧋ꦩꦣꦪ Fazoffic ( ʖ╎ᓵᔑ∷ᔑ) 13:32, 22 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Does the Indonesian version have good source citing? I'm asking because one of the desiderata for this article has been better sourcing. I haven't personally been able to get around to doing that work, & it seems like no one else has, yet, either. Maybe Indonesian is doing better than we are? Pathawi (talk) 13:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

ﷺ
ﷺ redirects to this article, but it's not mentioned anywhere. If a knowledgeable editor could add it, that would be good. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:57, 22 June 2023 (UTC)