Talk:Isle of Wight/Archive 3

Isle of Wight Dialect
"The island has its own local and regional words. Some, such as nipper/nips (a young male person)" this sounds silly as Nipper is slang for young person all over the UK. I have always lived in London and I have always heard this term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.14.189 (talk) 11:55, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

'Notable' Media references
I think this section is just cruft, and should be dropped. While it is nice to have a list of every time [insert favourite band/character] here mentions the Isle of Wight, most are not notable. I'd say the only notable ones are possibly the books set on the Island...

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The name
What does the name Wight mean? Which language does it come from? There must be a theory on this.


 * See the Etymology sub section of the History of the Isle of Wight page MapReader (talk) 14:13, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150210171819/http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/search/results.aspx?index=0 to http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/search/results.aspx?index=0&mainQuery=&searchType=all&form=basic&theme=&county=ISLE%20OF%20WIGHT&district=&placeName=

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 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130420172305/http://iwchronicle.co.uk/2010/07/turner-will-fight-on-for-unique-island-status/ to http://iwchronicle.co.uk/2010/07/turner-will-fight-on-for-unique-island-status/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111104184053/http://iwchronicle.co.uk/2011/02/isle-of-wight-set-to-have-two-mps-in-2015/ to http://iwchronicle.co.uk/2011/02/isle-of-wight-set-to-have-two-mps-in-2015/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061231144021/http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0011566.html to http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0011566.html
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Etymology
I removed the short section claiming that the name "Wiht" was given by the Beaker People and meant "raised or what rises over the sea". This is fantasy: no one knows anything about the language spoken by the Beaker people, and the pre-Roman name of the island is not recorded. Wiht is OK, but it's a spelling found in Anglo-Saxon sources (after the Romans, not before). The source cited was a tourist webpage, not a reliable source for etymology. I'm rewriting and I will cite Ekwall's The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names, which is a reliable source. Andrew Dalby 12:57, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. I removed the citation of Online Etymology Dictionary (which doesn't give much detail, it's really about the word "wight", not the name of the island). I added two good sources, which both supply essentially the same information. Andrew Dalby 13:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

History is a mess. Also, etymolology
The "iron Age" section is mostly talking about the Anglo-Saxons (but finishes with mention of Bronze Age and Iron Age trading). I was about to move this text to after the "Roman" section and rename it "Anglo-Saxons", but then noticed that the "Roman" section talks about the Romans, and the Jutes, and the Vikings. There seems to be a lot of repetition, and a very jumbled chronology here, so it will take more than just moving stuff around to fix it. I'll have a go when I have more time, unless anyone else does it first. Iapetus (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Addendum: someone who knows more about the subject will also have to have a look at the etymology, both here and in related articles. This article is arguing for a Celtic origin, meaning "place of division". History_of_the_Isle_of_Wight is arguing for either a Celtic origin meaning "work/journey", or a Germanic origin, meaning "small place" or similar.  Wihtwara gives the Anglo Saxon Chronicle's explanation of being named after Wihtgar (noting that this may be a mythic explanation, but not saying anything about alternative origins).  Iapetus (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The etymology cannot be Germanic because the name was known to the Greeks and Romans long before any Germanic speakers reached this region. The explanation derived from the Chronicle is known to be mythic for the same reason. What this article currently says about the etymology is about all that is honestly known. I came here for a different reason: I don't usually do Wikipedia etymologies because it's so difficult to keep them to reliable etymological sources.
 * It would be fine to mention the Germanic suggestions (the Wihtgar and the "small place" theories) if there are any worthwhile sources that discuss them, but I simply don't know if there are; "someone who knows more about the subject" is, as you say, just what we need. I agree, also, about the need for rearranging the history. Andrew Dalby 14:28, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Wight disambiguation
There is a discussion at Talk:Wight (disambiguation) proposing that there is no primary topic for "Wight".  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:58, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Lingo
With regard to the references of obscure dialect specific to the island:-

Quote: Others are more obscure and now used mainly for comic emphasis, such as mallishag (meaning "caterpillar"), gurt meaning "large", nammit (a mid-morning snack) and gallybagger ("scarecrow", and now the name of a local cheese). :End quote

I am rather dubious about the correctness of the term "gurt" being specific to the island. In Southbourne in West Sussex, which isn't far away, at school we all used "gurt" to mean "great", especially with reference to size, both abstract and real, e.g.

"'is dad 'as a gurt big car, an ee'? " (His father has a great big car, hasn't he?)

"Sheez go' ah gurt big gob on 'er, ssillee kao." (She has got a great big mouth on her, for she is indeed a foolish and obnoxious lady) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:388:535:150:0:0:1:D3 (talk) 10:07, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Bee death
The section on bee deaths cites one book written by a an anti-EM radiation activist. I'm not sure it warrants the level of details it does, and am not sure the source is especially reliable unless others back it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.168.187.141 (talk) 08:46, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I saw this when it was added and shared your thoughts, but I must have forgotten about it and never did any research. I did a quick search for citations and there are some references to Isle of Wight disease in bees, relating to the early 20th C, but I couldn’t find any contemporary references.  So if included at all it should go in the ‘history’ section.  The connection with radiation does appear speculative (if Marconi’s single low powered local radio experiment was sufficient to kill off bees, you’d think they’d all be dead by now worldwide).  I have deleted it from the main article; a short reference in the history section may be warranted, if I can find a reliable source. Thanks for flagging this MapReader (talk) 09:27, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * (after ECx2) I'm not sure that it merits inclusion at all. pages 116-121 of Bailey & Ball (2013) makes it clear that there was never such a thing as "Isle of Wight disease", but that it was a combination of factors and resulting conditions, with similar symptoms being noted in various other countries in the period 1901-1905. Certainly there is no connection with radiation exposure. Mikenorton (talk) 09:33, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * if nevertheless there is reliable citation that in the early 1900s there was a local problem with bees that was thought of as ‘Isle of Wight disease’, it would still be worth a sentence on the history page, qualified by the fact that similar things were observed in other places. It hangs on getting a good source. MapReader (talk) 09:42, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, and I rather hoped that the Bailey and Ball source that I provided would be sufficient. Mikenorton (talk) 09:49, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * if you want to add a sentence into the history article on the back of that, be my guest... :) MapReader (talk) 10:07, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Etymology
Then came the men from three powers of Germany; the Old Saxons, the Angles, and the Jutes. From the Jutes are descended the men of Kent,'the Wightwarians (that is, the tribe that now dwelleth in the Isle of Wight'), and that kindred in Wessex that men yet call the kindred of the Jutes. From the Old Saxons came the people of Essex and Sussex and Wessex. From Anglia, which has ever since remained waste between the Jutes and the Saxons, came the East Angles, the Middle Angles, the Mercians, and all of those north of the Humber. Their leaders were two brothers, Hengest and Horsa; who were the sons of Wihtgils; Wihtgils was the son of Witta, Witta of Wecta, Wecta of Woden. From this Woden arose all our royal kindred, and that of the Southumbrians also.

This is from The Saxon Chronicle Surely a reference to the genesis of the name of the Isle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Andre' Gibbons (talk • contribs) 13:31, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

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The Cockfields
Should add this to the Island TV credits 2A00:8B40:65CD:0:AD05:EB42:BBC9:7E67 (talk) 06:44, 16 March 2022 (UTC)