Talk:Isles of Scilly

Gulf Stream
Should this article mention the Gulf Stream? It is credited, or has been credited, to the mild temperature of the Scilly Islands. -24.149.185.189 (talk) 13:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Scilly Isles
People who live in the isles of Scilly DO NOT like it to be called the Scilly Isles. - fonzy


 * OK - so what would they prefer? (I'm not saying that we should then move it to whatever they prefer, though we might - but I am curious) --Camembert

Move it to Isles of Scilly (whihc i think is the right name anyway)- fonzy


 * You're right - I remembered just after I typed the above. Just out of interest - do you know why they prefer that formation to "Scilly Isles"? --Camembert

unfortunaty no, maybe its just thye like being correct, like ceratin things annoy the scottish, if not said, written wrong. - fonzy

Maybe for the simple reason that Scilly Isles sounds too much like Silly Isles? - Hwebers

Well then, who really wrote this article ?

Here, here,,, I was on these islands a few weeks ago and everyone called it scilly isles. Every British person calls it this as well. Sounds like one persons opinion to me 93.97.184.173 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:08, 16 April 2010 (UTC).

Miles to Kilometers
How much would be 28 miles in kilometers? Which mile is being used in the article? Sorry if the questions seem stupid to any of you. --matusz 23:06, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Scilly Isles (reprise)
People who live on the Isles of Scilly (IOS) dont like it being called the Scilly Isles or the Scillies as it sounds like the word silly. IOS is located 28 land miles WSW off Land's End, roughly 45km or 24 nautical miles.

Tresco Photograph
In the photo labelled Tresco, is the vantage point and the land surrounding it, Tresco, or is Tresco the island with the lighthouse on it? Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 02:03, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

The photo is taken on Tresco, which is the foreground (Blockhouse Cottages, I think); the island in the background is St Helens, but the lighthouse is actually on Round Island beyond that. Agingjb 14:52, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

Origin of name
Anyone know the origin of the name? It's obviously a bit confusing with the "real" Sicily. --Doradus 16:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't know the origin - I have heard it's pre-Indo-European

I believe the Romans called it Scilly, meaning "islands in the sun", so it is probably derived from the same origins as Sicily. I'm not sure how I know this, but I remember reading it somewhere, and someone telling me, plus it sort of makes sense.

Scillonia?
I've removed this


 * Note that the use of the name The Scilly Isles is deprecated by the locals, who prefer Scillonia.

pending a source. Morwen - Talk 11:51, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have heard of "Scillonia", but I am not sure how wide its use is (never have visited the islands). However, I would second the comments above that "Scilly Isles", "the Scillys/ies" are frowned upon by many people, and are shibboleths of a kind. --MacRusgail 15:17, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Acceptable use is usually just Scilly, cf. Cornish Zillan. I think the Cornish used in the article is a calque on the English Isles of Scilly. Doire 22:48, 29 December 2005.

The Scilly Isles are a pair of round abouts in Surrey I believe and lets face it we wouldn't want to be confused with them. I dislike the phrase "The Scillies" becuase it is wrong, and it sounds stupid, it is wrong for the simple fact that there is only one place called Scilly, it is made up of lots of islands, each with their own distinct character. The sea is also Scilly so to refer to it as plural doesn't make sense. The name Scillonia is used for the phone area code. The most commonly used name is simply "Scilly".

"sui generis" status
As with the City of London the Isles of Scilly has a sui generis status within the English system of local government. Note the following two references:

Civil Contingencies Act - under "Local authorities" the Council of the Isles of Scilly is listed seperately (along with the Common Council of the City of London).

Isles of Scilly Council - "This unique nature has been recognied by its special constitutional position, known as the Isles of Scilly Clause."

As other local government pages on Wikipedia point out, the Isles of Scilly are a Unitary Authority in every sense, being administratively seperate from Cornwall, but they do not constitute a seperate county in any way.

Feel free to discuss and even prove me wrong/ammend the facts stated here!! :) David 23:09, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Liquor laws differed in the 1930s?
I am presently reading the novella "The Death Penalty" by Leslie Charteris, part of the Saint mystery series (and published in Once More the Saint in 1932). In this book, the hero travels to the "Scilly Islands" (sic) and it is noted that due to their location they are not subject to certain British laws prohibiting liquor sales at certain hours (apparently during midday if I understand the story correctly). It's doubtful Charteris would have made this up, so if anyone can confirm dates, etc. it might be an interesting tidbit for the history section. 23skidoo 13:40, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Gugh
According to this article Gugh is the smallest of the inhabited islands, with only three citizens. But according to the article Gugh, it's uninhabited. Which of the two articles is correct? A ecis  Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 01:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

There are two houses on Gugh, both are occupied for at least some of the year. Agingjb 09:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Samson etc.
A recent change gives the number of inhabited islands as seven, presumably including the formerly inhabited Samson. But then St Helens, Tean, at least two lighthouses, and some of the eastern isles were formerly inhabited. Agingjb 17:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

The number has since been corrected, does the article need more about formerly inhabited islands (Samson is covered), possibly not. Agingjb 07:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Critical comment - 30/01/2007
It's refreshing to see that there is some sort of critical comment here. I do think that perhaps the tourist 'image' of the Isles of Scilly is far too rosy at times - and the new BBC series 'An Island Parish' is indeed in many ways a testament to this.

My experience of the islands is primarily based on a dissertation project submitted in canditure for a degree in human geography back in 2004. This included two weeks intensive fieldwork and looked at the opportunities for young people growing up on the islands. I conducted nearly 20 in-depth interviews with young people between the ages of 16 to 26 from the different islands to understand their perceptions of access to housing, employment and education. This was situated in the context of research into the local economy and its dependency upon tourism as the main source of revenue. Interviews were also conducted with relevant employees of the council and the Duchy of Cornwall.

The main finding of the research was that many young people feel they have to leave the islands. This was in most cases due to a conflict between their future hopes and aspirations and the reality of limited and therefore exclusive opportunities to access employment and particularly housing. The islands also have no higher education provision forcing a migration of nearly all 16 year olds to the mainland, albeit temporarily.

What is concerning here is that The Isles of Scilly are loosing their future. If they can’t retain at least some of the younger generation, then this threatens the sustainability of the whole community as the operational viability of core services will be threatened. Indeed the school has had to adapt to a 'federated' structure to temporarily close off-island schools when the need arises due to the decline in numbers of children living in these catchment areas.

If tourism is indeed to be the strategy for economic survival, then it also needs to take into account the opportunities for young people living there and provide them with the support to stay if they want, and allow them to be innovative in securing the island’s future. This requires the commitment of all actors and stakeholders.

--Phillip Vincent 17:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

P.S Oh, and I would love to discuss this with anyone who is interested.

Rewrote statement on winter shutdown
The following statement has recently been added to the article:


 * Tourism is also a highly seasonal industry due to its reliance on outdoor recreation causing a near shutdown of the islands in winter.

which I think fails the common sense test. It surely isn't tourism that is causing the winter shutdown, but rather the absence of tourism in winter that is causing the shutdown. Put it another way. If the island tourist industry disappeared overnight, would this in itself increase activity in winter?. I've rewritten the statement to what I think was really meant:


 * Tourism is also a highly seasonal industry due to its reliance on outdoor recreation, and the low level of tourist activity in winter causes a near shutdown of the islands during that season.

Apologies if I've misunderstood. - Chris j wood 12:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, it would be really good to have either elaboration or a source (or even better both), for that statement. 'Near shutdown' has a whiff of POV about it, and in any case probably means quite different things to different people depending on their background. For example, does the electricity supply shut down in winter? (I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but if I lived in large swathes of the developing world that would be one of my criteria for near shutdown). Likewise, do the 24 hour street markets shutdown? (again, I'm pretty sure the islands don't have 24 hour street markets, but if I still lived in Hong Kong that might be what I would read into 'near shutdown'). I think what I'm saying in an overly long-winded fashion is that we need some objective examples of what is meant by near shutdown. -- Chris j wood 12:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

...

Cheers Chris, that makes sense to me.

In a tangible sense, there are far fewer visitors to the islands in winter. If you look at the IOS Intergrated Plan for example, this had a concern for expanding the tourist season outside of the busy summer months. Also in my own research I was led to believe that many of the locals who run tourist businesses go on holiday themeselves over the winter months so this doesn't disrupt their earning capacity for the rest of the year. It would be intersting to check out the booking periods for tourist accomodation actually - I think this would provide a better way of accessing whether many tourist providers hope to attact people during the winter.

The following article by Butler was a review of seasonality in the tourist industry more generally and this spoke explicitly about how previous research had failed to see seasonality outside of a business context, as its implications reach far beyond this into issues of community sustainablity.

Butler R (2001) 'Seasonality in Tourism: Issues and Implications', in T Baum, S Lundtorp (eds) Seasonality in Tourism, Pergamon, Oxford, pp. 5-23. 'Near shutdown' is as you say ambigious, but I felt this reflected the way that the young people I spoke to felt about the islands in winter. They often complained that it was boring to be at home during this time, with fewer people around and less chance to get out because of the weather etc.

I agree, its an important point that does need clarification because its integeral to the debate of economic mono-dependency and how this affects the community in a broader sense.

--Phillip Vincent 13:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

"White" People?
“…and the ethnic makeup of the islands is almost exclusively White,” is rather inarticulate and barbaric. In the 21st Century is “white” still acceptable as an ethnic classification? I should hope not. I vote to alter this to something more scholarly (such as Caucasian). If it is unacceptable to use “black” to refer to a group of people, then how in the name of logic can it be acceptable to use “white” in this case? The PC movement has rendered the average writer of the English language incapable of seeing the ridiculousness of this misnomer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.236.22 (talk)


 * White is the standard term in British English Black is also standard in British English - Caucasian refers to someone from the Caucasus . DuncanHill 11:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The makeup, as far as I can tell, is mostly white Cornish (yes, Cornish IS alloted a census code, but does not appear as an option) or white English. --MacRusgail 19:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh my... read the Daily Mail by any chance? Political Correctness gone mad hahah 93.97.184.173 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC).

Which of the following statements is true?

The people of the islands have a genetic link to the ancient British tribal people who inhabited the islands long before the arrival of the Celts or Romans.

Whilst there is little evidence to substantiate the claim, it is sometimes rather tenuously suggested, that the early inhabitants of the islands may have had a genetic link to the "Ancient British" who inhabited the islands long before the arrival of the Celts or Romans —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.102.175 (talk) 20:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I guess both statements must be true then.

Is "White" an ethnic group? Don't we have to differentiate among, say, Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Finns, and so forth?

--Knowledge-is-power (talk) 05:27, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Geography
Er. Land's End isn't the most westerly point in Great Britain (that's Ardnamurchan Point in Scotland). The other changes in this section from "England" to "Great Britain" may or may not be justified. Agingjb 08:01, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've changed this back to England. Bistromathic 19:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

The record low temperature is actually -7.2C & not -6.4C as previously stated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.3.21 (talk) 22:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

pronunciation
it seems somewhat precious not to tell us ignorant furreners how to pronounce the name of the place. 'sounds too much like silly' - is it or not, please?


 * Yes it sounds just like the word "silly". Don't forget to sign your comments using the [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] button. --Joowwww 11:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Talking islands? Now that's just Scilly
I changed "It is not known at exactly what time the islands stopped speaking Cornish" to "It is not known at exactly what time the islands' inhabitants stopped speaking Cornish."

Three suggestions for edits I don't feel qualifed to make:

1. How is King Olaf visiting a seer there evidence that the Isles once were larger and many of them joined?

2. Can the reference to "Some of the Cornish language placenames also appear to reflect past shorelines, and former land areas" be supported with some examples?

3. The bit about the Isles attracting rare birds is very interesting but a little vague. Any examples?

JamestownArarat (talk) 05:43, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * 1 - it isn't. No one said so. 2 - Yes. 3- no idea, but could be expanded. Not a twitcher myself. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * 3 I suppose a link to http://www.scilly-birding.co.uk/ could be added. Agingjb (talk) 20:27, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Strange sentence
In the middle of the "Middle-Ages" paragraph is the following sentence:

In 1375, Boreman, with 28 mariners, was captured in the Isles of Scilly in a barge of Normandy by Fulbroke, Borde and others and brought to Bristol as prisoners.

Can anyone add any detail or framing to it? I've had a good search and failed to find out who "Boreman", "Fulbroke" or "Borde" were. I'm going to remove this unless someone can identify the relevance.

Cheers, OBM | blah blah blah 14:20, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I've now removed it. Cheers, OBM | blah blah blah 08:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Tidy
I've done a bit of cleaning up, removing forced image sizes which override user settings, added a bit on Ennor and general tinkering. Could do with a good copy edit, I've only fixed a few of the worst atrocities (month of October = October) jimfbleak (talk) 14:48, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Transport
The article has recently been edited to change the list of Skybus destinations, removing many of them. As far I can tell, the original list was more correct Agingjb (talk) 10:47, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Samson
The table of islands had a footnote, saying "[1]Inhabited until 1855" but the marker in the table had been removed. I restored it. Rojomoke (talk) 15:37, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Driving tests
I've recently heard that people travel to the Isles of Scilly to learn to drive, because it's so easy to pass your test there, and so you can gain a full UK licence in a matter of days. Indeed, states that IoS has the highest pass rate for car tests in the country. Apparently there are no roundabouts, and some other features are absent though I forget which.

Is this notable enough for something to be written in the article about it? Moreover, can anybody find sources to back these claims? -- Smjg (talk) 00:18, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Move request to move iOS (Apple) to IOS
IOS is currently a disambiguation page, and it links to this one. Its proposed to move iOS (Apple) over than and move the redirect to IOS (disambiguation). See Talk:IOS (Apple) if you wish to comment. -- Eraserhead1 &lt;talk&gt; 20:11, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Where are these islands?
Simpley put, put a real map in this article. Showing me pictures of islands surrounded by water doesn't help in gaining the ability to point out these islands on other maps/a globe. Without showing the islands in relation to Britain or Europe, one cannot fully understand where these islands are.

Mofuggin bob (talk) 10:53, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Per your valid request I've added a map. Dr.  Blofeld  07:58, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

== The whole of southern England has been steadily sinking in opposition to post-glacial rebound in Scotland: this has caused the rias (drowned river valleys) on the southern Cornish coast, e.g. River Fal and the Tamar Estuary.== This isn't actually what is happening, South East England is sinking while the south west is relatively stable, to such an extent that the OS use the harbour wall at Newlyn is used as the gauge of sea level and tidal activity across the whole country. (Ordnance_Datum). Nor were the Tamar or Fal estuaries formed via the South West sinking, the event was a global sea level which flooded the then lower valleys with water, leaving the Rias we see today. Should I therefore remove this piece of text?Jackdann88 (talk) 22:00, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Lead.
Made a few additions and tweaks to the lead, as I'm not the most confident editor I'd be pleased if someone could review my additions. I was amazed the article wasn't tagged for not conveying enough info in the lead actually; very sparse and sad. Hope I've helped. --Τασουλα (talk) 20:31, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Anglia et Cornubia/English or Cornish
These edits here add some useful info but imo mark a distinction that is not as clear cut as implied by the wording. I'm not sure for example how accurate this statement is - "Before the Tudor period, laws were typically designated as taking effect in Anglia et Cornubia". This is definitely the case with some laws, but I'm not sure "typically" is correct, and no source has been added to confirm or clarify the point. Also, the constitutional status of Cornwall is in fact not "a matter of some debate", if that's meant to refer to the supposedly dubious nature of its current connection to England (all the "Duchy not a county" stuff). Even the debate around any future changes is relatively limited in scope if one is looking at mainstream discussion. We are not talking about Scotland/UK or Catalonia/Spain here. Also the reference to the people being "either Cornish or English" assumes a clear separation and distinction that not everyone makes.  N-HH   talk / edits  21:35, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Apologies, but I've gone ahead and taken the additions out in their entirety. I know the material could perhaps be edited, and citation tags added, but there are overall too many problems with much of it. In addition to the above points, it contained lots of commentary and apparent value judgments, eg "a similar situation exists today", "it is sometimes rather tenuously suggested", "subjective observations suggest that", "young indigenous Cornish are increasingly underrepresented" (and what does the latter mean anyway - that their numbers are falling, or that the true number is not recognised?), as well as strange statements such as that Poles have been "brought in". Plus, for example, notes about the history of Cornwall are not relevant to a section about "National government".  N-HH   talk / edits  14:35, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

The Cornish are an ethnic group... you'll find this attested to in numerous foreign publications. Of course, the British establishment has difficulty separating out the various strands of so called British culture, and conflates them. Of course, in this case, certain folk do not wish to admit that the Cornish exist, or confuse them with a county identity e.g. Yorkshire.--MacRùsgail (talk) 20:04, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Where in the above did I say they were not, deny that the Cornish are often taken as distinct from the English, or deny anyone's existence outright? Where in the above have you addressed - let alone even acknowledged - any of my multiple points, which go way beyond the point about Cornish/English, before simply restoring all your additions verbatim?  N-HH   talk / edits  23:01, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added some sources and properly presented detail about demographics (based vaguely on the material that was added initially), but have again removed much of the conjecture, commentary, and barely relevant and unencyclopedic theorising and speculation about population and politics. There may be some debate to be had about that, but can we please have it? Brief ramblings about alleged ethnic denialism and the "British establishment" don't count and are not sufficient justification for it to be blindly reinserted.  N-HH   talk / edits  09:19, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Mass revert and "anglocentrism"
This edit has reverted, en masse, a series of recent changes, without any talk page comment. I haven't looked through the differences in detail, but an edit summary that justifies reversion of material about a place that's part of England and not part of any serious territorial dispute by citing "anglocentrism" as a criticism immediately raises concerns. To take something from the top of the page, I'm not sure that the new map wasn't better, since it showed the location of the islands in a context that probably makes sense to a broader readership. Can we please not drag this page into a ridiculous ethno-nationalist war?  N-HH   talk / edits  10:17, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

The West Country Challenge
Would you like to win up to £250 in Amazon vouchers for participating in The West Country Challenge?

The The West Country Challenge will take place from 8 to 28 August 2016. The idea is to create and improve articles about Bristol, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, Dorset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, like this one.

The format will be based on Wales's successful Awaken the Dragon which saw over 1000 article improvements and creations and 65 GAs/FAs. As with the Dragon contest, the focus is more on improving core articles and breathing new life into those older stale articles and stubs which might otherwise not get edited in years. All contributions, including new articles, are welcome though.

Work on any of the items at: or other articles relating to the area.
 * Core articles
 * Missing article hotlist
 * Missing photograph hotlist

There will be sub contests focusing on particular areas:
 * Bristol (Day 1-3)
 * Cornwall and Scilly (Day 4-6)
 * Devon (Day 7-9)
 * Dorset (Day 10-12)
 * Gloucestershire (Day 13-15)
 * Somerset (Day 16-18)
 * Wiltshire (Day 19-21)

To sign up or get more information visit the contest pages at WikiProject England/The West Country Challenge.&mdash; Rod talk 16:10, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

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In what way is the flag of the islands "unofficial"?
Flags can't really be "official" in the UK. The Cornish flag is just as "unofficial" as the Scillonian flag. They're both registered with the Flag Institute, which is as close as a flag can get to being official. I'll change the article accordingly. --Inops (talk) 11:39, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

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Notable people
Harold and Mary Wilson might well be added to the list. They owned a small house there, actually freehold, I believe. Seadowns (talk) 01:39, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

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cut flowers
I suspect this is a thing of the past. Does anyone have information to the contrary? Brownturkey (talk) 20:08, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * According to the Duchy of Cornwall, which owns most of the islands, "Dating back to the 1860s, flower farming remains an important part of the local economy to this day" but "tourism is the most important industry – accounting for more than 85 per cent of the local economy and employing more than 70 per cent of the islands' population." See this link. Of course, employment in tourism is often both part-time and part-year, so many of those employed in tourism may have other jobs. DuncanHill (talk) 22:57, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Climate section (2019)
A number of very dubious claims in here, typical of pages where locals edit in order to make inflated claims about their climate. 1) Removed "warm" in front of Koeppen classification. "Warm" is subjective, and has no place in the named definition. 2) Removed the "borders on a subtropical climate" claim. This was originally put in by mixing definitions. The Trewartha definition has a much lower bar for subtropical than does Koeppen. Koeppen requires the mean temperature in the warmest month to be at least 22C. For Scilly, that is about 5-6C short. So not even close to bordering on subtropical. In Koeppen, even Sydney does not quite reach subtropical status, so it is nonsensical and misleading to claim Scilly borders on it. 3) Removed the "Mediterranean influence" claim. Scilly's summers are still too wet to claim any kind of Mediterranean classification. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.21.130.193 (talk) 20:04, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Sicily
I deleted the disambig statement about Sicily, as I cannot believe anybody is likely to confuse it with Scilly. Editor 180.244.161.82 has seen fit to undo this without comment. I don't know how other readers feel about this. Valetude (talk) 11:24, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * PS Logically the same person would find it necessary to apply the same thing to the wiki page on Sicily. I notice they haven't. Valetude (talk) 11:26, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with the removal. DuncanHill (talk) 11:38, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I've removed it again. It's all very sicily.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:16, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

St Agnes southernmost point?
The article states: One of the islands, St Agnes, is the most southerly point in the British Isles, being over four miles (six kilometres) further south than the most southerly point of the British mainland at Lizard Point.

It seems, however, as there are within this group other islands (or islets) further south. Why is St Agnes defined as the southernmost point? Fomalhaut76 (talk) 19:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC)


 * It's also demonstrably not true even considering the rest of the Scilly Isles' associated minor outcrops. The islands of Les Minquiers, part of the Bailiwick of Jersey, are undoubtedly the most southerly islands in the British Isles. The Channel Islands are part of the British Isles but not the UK or Great Britain, which is perhaps what the author of this sentence was conflating? 2600:1700:5890:9C70:59C5:41D6:BE83:25FC (talk) 09:27, 11 March 2024 (UTC)