Talk:Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)/Archive 1

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023
In the October 9th paragraph Israeli is incorrectly spelt as Israelí.

In the October 11th paragraph "of northern" is missing a gap between the two words. Professor Spud (talk) 21:40, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ partly by me, partly by user . Politrukki (talk) 15:08, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Is this really a necessary article in this point in time?
I believe this could be merged with October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict as its own section rather than requiring its own page when very little has happened. RamHez (talk) 13:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I also believe it this should be merged. IamBrainGriffinFromFamilyGuy (talk) 17:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Parham wiki (talk) 18:15, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * gotta disagree MissionGuyNoob (talk) 06:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It should be merged, yes. It's a minor fragment of a much broader event. Belayed. The situation has moved on. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:40, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * agreed but i think this article should be renamed to Israel–Hezbollah clashes or of the likes. This wasn't a single strike or simply a Hezbollah strike but multiple clashes for the past week. RamHez (talk) 02:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Should the alleged involvement of Iraqi PMF and other "Axis of Resistance" militias be added to this page
According to the Institute for the Study of War, there are reports of a number of Iraqi PMU militias joining the Lebanese Hezbollah in Lebanon for a planned war against Israel. I don't know the veracity of such reports, but should the alleged involvement of Iraqi PMF elements be mentioned in this page? Or is it far too premature for that right now?

Source: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-october-14-2023 Randomuser335S (talk) 15:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

IDF death toll at 5
Can't edit the article. Yesterday IDF death toll rose from 4 to 5. Source: Times of Israel reporting on yesterday attack. 2A00:1FA0:110:30C4:178E:81F7:F236:B7CA (talk) 07:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Casualties/Losses
2 merkava4 tanks of IDF were destroyed with clashes with Hezbola 2A00:23EE:1CA0:3137:B9E4:5629:1DA2:F45B (talk) 20:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2023
Hezbollah kills IDF Soldier with ATGM Need to change from 3 to 4 https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-soldier-killed-in-hezbollah-anti-tank-cross-border-missile-attack/amp/ Kalaka2335 (talk) 16:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 02:20, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2023
2 Merkava 4 tanks of the IDF were destroyed in clashes with Hezbola 2A00:23EE:1CA0:3137:B9E4:5629:1DA2:F45B (talk) 01:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: It's not clear exactly what you want changed, and you also need to provide a reliable source for your request. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 02:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 October 2023
Remove the Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq from the belligerent section of the infobox.

The referenced article from the ISW does not properly demonstrate that this group is a belligerent in this conflict beyond some sort of braggadociousness on social media. No single kinetic military activity has been ascribed to the Asa'ib or to any other Al-Hashd Al-Shaabi group. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 02:30, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Statement failed verification. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, @TechnoSquirrel69. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 17:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Add Al-Qassam Brigades to units involved section in infobox
There is now explicit confirmation of Hamas's Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades operating out of Southern Lebanon per ISW. Please add them to the units involved section of the infobox.

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 20:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC) SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 20:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Also, see []  Brendan  ❯❯❯  Talk  05:00, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Is this the socond front ?
For over a week this part of the border has seen some fighting can this be a second front ? 2600:6C50:1B00:32BE:E12E:E076:3863:5956 (talk) 23:35, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Merger discussion
I propose merging this article into October 2023 Israel–Hezbollah Golan fire exchanges. Rather than have seperate articles on Hezbollah clashes with Israel during this wider war, it would make sense to have a single article with a name like 2023 Hezbollah-Israel clashes or 2023 Hezbollah-Israel conflict. Please discuss here. GWA88 (talk) 14:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * "Support"- I think the Hezbollah stuff should be moved here but what should be done about the Israeli Airstrikes on Syrian airports in that article. HuntersHistory (talk) 21:22, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support proposed merge of articles regarding the recent clashes in and around Lebanon and Syria. Oppose proposed Hezbollah-centric names due to the involvement of cells of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad operating out of Lebanon in the events described in this article, in addition to the involvement of the non-Hezbollah-affiliated Syrian Air Defense Force in responding to Israeli strike on apparent non-Hezbollah-affiliated targets in Syria (Aleppo and Damascus International Airports).
 * Alternatively suggest tentative name Spillover of the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, in the format of articles Spillover of the Syrian civil war and Spillover of the Tigray War, which largely cover incidents involving third parties to the main conflict similar to the events discussed here, which would be largely coterminous with the "Outside Israel and the Gaza strip" section of the primary article.
 * SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 21:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * “Support” @SaintPaulOfTarsus because that makes sense to me. HuntersHistory (talk) 22:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom  Abo Yemen ✉  19:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ===Support===
 * This can be renamed as Spillover of the 2023 Israel-Hamas war as suggested by User:SaintPaulOfTarsus. 110.224.97.128 (talk) 04:12, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose because this article was created more earlier than that one that you're talking about and there's currently a proposed name change for the article; and also the article that you're talking about has less information about Hezbollah and Israel. PopularGames (talk) 22:56, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed there should be at most one article. This was around first, is much longer, and is the only one of the two actually about Hezbollah, so I redirected the other here. The brief material about Syria is now convered in 2023 Israel–Hamas war – SJ +  20:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Nicely done. Thank you for your assistance. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 02:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 8 October 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: MOVED to 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes per WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE. Discussion indicates no remaining support for current title or requested title, but instead general support for some other title. As "2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes" appears to be a common name in the media for this topic (pointed out in discussion) I am moving it to that title. (non-admin closure) Ultimograph5 (talk) 05:06, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

October 2023 Hezbollah strike → 2023 Shebaa Farms airstrike – The attack actually happened at this location, and in the future, "strike" may be mistaken for strike action  Bremps  ...  18:57, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * True,I support this. 2023 Shebaa Farms airstrike sounds better and specific MissionGuyNoob (talk) 06:16, 9 October 2023 (UTC) Struck per WP:ARBECR and WP:ARBPIA4. —  Material  Works  18:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support: Reasonable. Strikes from both sides, not just from Hezbollah. Prodrummer619 (talk) 06:43, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Strikes have occurred in numerous places in Lebanon and Israel. Not just Shebaa. Also, there's currently an exchange of fire between Israel and Hezbollah so the article shouldn't just talk exclusively about the October 8 strike on Shebaa. I would suggest renaming it to October 2023 Hezbollah-Israel strikes/exchange or something like that. Prodrummer619 (talk) 12:58, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: It has turned into a violent exchange Prodrummer619 (talk) 14:07, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support alternative: Move to October 2023 Hezbollah strikes, making "strike" plural because the article encompasses all of the clashes between Hezbollah and Israel happening alongside the October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict. AmericanBaath (talk) 21:46, 9 October 2023 (UTC) Struck per WP:ARBECR and WP:ARBPIA4. —  Material  Works  18:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support: This proposal makes the most sense. Charles Essie (talk) 03:39, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Move to 2023 Israel−Lebanon border clashes since this already covers a variety of events and multiple parties, i.e. it's not just 'strikes' and the border incursion was by the PIJ, not Hezbollah, etc. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Or 2023 Israel−Lebanon clashes, as mentioned below as a variant. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:03, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support alternative: and the fact that the PIJ are also involved makes me support the change, though i prefer "October 2023 south Lebanon clashes " Durranistan (talk) 11:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It didn't happen in north Lebanon, it was in southern Lebanon and the occupied Golan Heights. Not Israel. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:41, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks for the correction, my mistake Durranistan (talk) 06:48, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support this variant. It could also be October 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes. Oppose 2023 Israel−Lebanon border clashes because it is not about the army of the Republic of Lebanon. Oppose all other variants, they're not simple strikes. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 14:34, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support move to 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes or 2023 Israel−Lebanon border clashes. GWA88 (talk) 14:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose "Israel−Lebanon border clashes", the strike wasn't on the border between Israel and Lebanon, it was in the Sheba farms, between Lebanon and the occupied Golan Heights. It is a clear npov violation to claim the area is "Israel". --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:38, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Events have involved, and there has subsequently been an incursion and a series of strikes across the border proper, making it a far broader geography at this point that just the Sheba farms. However, it could potentially also just be 2023 Israel−Lebanon clashes, because yes, technically, there is disputed space. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It doenst matter if it has evolved, the first strike happened on border between Lebanon and occupied territory, not Israel. The title must accurately describe the event in a npov way.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 17:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose - current title is appropriate. Hezbollah strikes are not limited to that specific place. It is also not a border conflict or crisis. Paul Vaurie (talk) 02:37, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment - There have been multiple rocket attacks, artillery strikes, air strikes, as well as infiltration by gunmen and shootings on the border since last week. We are well past being able to call this a singular strike, regardless of whether the page renaming involves Shebaa or not. --Dynamo128 (talk) 08:58, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * October 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes or simply 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes would make the most sense given the circumstances, and would also be in line with how such topics are typically referred to on Wikipedia. --Dynamo128 (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, Palestinian Islamic Jihad has also become involved, so it's not just Hezbollah anything at this point, hence the alternative suggestions that are more widely encompassing. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:55, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support any reference to Israel-Lebanon border clashes since that is exactly what is happening. Borgenland (talk) 10:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support move to 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes RamHez (talk) 14:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support immediate replacement of "Hezbollah strike" in current name. "Strike" in the singular is clearly outdated terminology, and Hezbollah is now one of three combatants against Israel on this front. Oppose any move to a title referencing the "Shebaa Farms" because clashes have taken place throughout nearly the entire length of the (de facto) Israel-Lebanon border. Also considering that nearly all the contents of this article also appear in 2023 Israel-Hamas war, consider potential merge? SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 13:53, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I think with how this conflict has developed since this article was created, that 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes is now the most appropriate title. GWA88 (talk) 16:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support move to 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes. —  Sundostund  mppria  (talk / contribs) 05:38, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: Reliable sources such as Reuters continue are referring to these events as Israel-Lebanon border clashes, and Wikipedia should be using something similar. This is already extremely appropriate per WP:NCE, while the suggestions of using "Hezbollah–Israel" in the title are simply not. WP:NCE calls for "when, where, what" and Hezbollah is not a where, but a who. Matching like for like here would give you either Hezbollah-IDF or Lebanon-Israel border, but matching actors with territories is just a mess, apples and oranges, and not what is called for by WP:NCE. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support move to 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes. Clashes have expanded and are continues. EkoGraf (talk) 18:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose 2023 Hezbollah–Israel clashes as Hamas and other Palestinians are clearly active participants in these clashes. See PBS "The Lebanese militant group Hezbollah and allied Palestinian groups in Lebanon have launched daily missile strikes on northern Israel since..."VR talk 02:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes or 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes. Based on my research, I found that most sources describe this as "clashes" at/along/on "Israel-Lebanon border"/"Lebanon-Israel border". I actually didn't find any major source that used the phrase "Israel-Hezbollah" or "Hezbollah-Israel"to describe this topic, though of course all sources mention both Israel and Hezbollah at some point. Sources that use "Israel-Lebanon border"/"Lebanon-Israel border", either in title or in body:
 * CNN:Clashes at Lebanon-Israel border raise fears of wider war
 * AP News:Clashes erupted Tuesday along the Lebanon-Israel border
 * Time (magazine):Clashes Again Erupt on Lebanon-Israel Border
 * The HillFighting broke out along the Israel-Lebanon border
 * Reuters:Israel-Lebanon border clashes escalate
 * Dawn (newspaper): Lebanon-Israel border clashes escalate
 * ABC news:Sporadic acts of violence along the Lebanon-Israel border
 * And many more, happy to provide more sources if needed.VR talk 02:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

casualties of Israel
must be updated. 85.104.67.100 (talk) 23:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Why only hezbollah casualties are updated not Israel's? What about no. of tanks destroyed?
Why only hezbollah casualties are updated not Israel's? What about no. of tanks destroyed? If Israel not revealing it's numbers, why not add hezbollah alleged claim? While mentioning it's hezbollah claim. 202.47.36.141 (talk) 14:36, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Rockets fired from Lebanon at north; IDF strikes terror cells, Hezbollah sites
IDF says it bombed terror group’s positions in southern Lebanon in response to attacks; Israel also said to hit Syrian military, pro-Iran militia targets in response to shelling. Source: The Times of Israel Accuratelibrarian (talk) 00:00, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Displaced people
If we are willing to add the number of displaced people in Lebanon, we should add the number of displaced in Israel. By this article. Israel evacuated the city of Kiryat Shmona as well as 42 smaller communities 5 kms from the Lebanese border, at least 34,000 residents. Supported (without numbers) by this article, as well as the official government decision for evacuation (in Hebrew). Bhtzuc (talk) 17:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)


 * This seems like a reasonable request. I can’t understand why it hasn’t be done. While at it, number of displaced in Lebanon should be updated as well. Emmett87 (talk) 20:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 26 October 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Clear consensus that the proposed rename of 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes should not be carried out, as it is no longer October and the event is still ongoing. However, there isn't clear agreement about what to do with 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings, and another discussion to just move it could take place and has a better chance of gaining consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 01:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

– Differentiate between the April and October events. The April events include more than shellings, but also airstrikes. Suggest renaming for consistency. Longhornsg (talk) 21:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes → October 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes
 * 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes
 * Support per nomination. The just-concluded RM at Talk:2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes, above, had discussed main title headers October 2023 Hezbollah strike and 2023 Shebaa Farms airstrike, but the currently-existing headers for the October 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes and the April 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings are indeed practically interchangeable. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:04, 27 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment: The shellings in April didn't involve any border clashies at all though ... Some shelling occurred, and then there were airstrikes on Tyre and Gaza, nowhere near the border. Border clashes would be a totally non-descript title for that. Better to just add April in front of that title to distinguish it from the shellings that have occurred in the October clashes. Job done. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * If preferred by consensus and based upon the above comment, I would switch support from 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes to 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings. As for the proposed 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes → October 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes, I feel that the inclusion of "October" within the main title header is analogous to the "April" header and solidifies clarity. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:52, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I certainly think this would be preferable to reducing everything to "border clashes". As an alternative to 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes → October 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes, it might also be reasonable to now intensify this title to 2023 Israel-Lebanon border conflict, given the mounting damage and dead - I'm not sure if "border clashes" really adequately sums up the scale of engagements: it sounds more like protests and the odd potshot than it does the serious rocket and artillery exchanges that are ongoing - with facilities hit, many dead and flights redirected. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:21, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with your points on "border clashes", and I would drop "border" given that some subsequent activity has occurred quite far from the border. Propose 2023 Israel-Hezbollah clashes or the like. Longhornsg (talk) 06:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Since the 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings only lasted for one day in April, it seems sufficient to simply add "April". On the other hand, since the current hostilities will last beyond October, I would amend support to either of the above-proposed alternatives: 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes → 2023 Israel-Lebanon border conflict or 2023 Israel-Hezbollah clashes or even 2023 Israel-Hezbollah conflict. Depending upon the progression of hostilities, further revisions using terms stronger than "conflict" or "clashes" may be ultimately applicable. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:13, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support moving 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings → April 2023 Israel–Lebanon shellings per Roman Spinner above. VR talk 13:53, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

October is almost over, and this will probably be going on for a while — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.178.74 (talk) 07:15, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree, the proposed title will be obsolete in a few hours. VR talk 13:51, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose and snow close. Proposed title is already obsolete. Aydoh8 (talk) 04:37, 2 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose moving 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes → October 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes as the border clashes are also occurring in November 2023, and they could potentially be ongoing after November as well. IJA (talk) 14:26, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose already moot now that fighting is still ongoing this November. Borgenland (talk) 05:47, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose – This is an already-moot case. --Omnipaedista (talk) 10:51, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Israeli casualities
Hezbollah Claims 120 israeli troops have been killed/wounded in the border strikes.

This should be updated. 80.220.74.143 (talk) 13:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Claims by Hezbollah (or really by anyone) are not reliable sources. Aydoh8 (talk) 04:39, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * well the leaders' statements must be taken into consideration whether they are true or not: on the Hamas-Israel war Wiki page the entry "1000 infiltrators killed in Israel" was added without providing any documentation, photographic proof or confirmation of this figure. We Wikipedians are not historians, which is why we must take into consideration all possibilities, even more so if they come from the leaders of countries or movements at war with each other. On the Russian-Ukrainian war page, completely random numbers and numbers of Russian losses are cited without any actual evidence, however our job is not to make sure if the number is accurate, that is the job of historians, if there is evidence that Hezbollah has mentioned that number, must be inserted Elia Tamburin (talk) 22:02, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * can you show source? Durranistan (talk) 04:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * https://english.almanar.com.lb/1958024&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiNpcGFi66CAxVZHzQIHc1oA-YQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3u0Eg_vHhE2rHrYnXxGM5F
 * Right here
 * for deaths at least 17 have been admitted by the IDF whereas Hezbollah claims it’s 30. 90 IDF injured respectively A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 00:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

The commanders of the israeli forces in the front
This page appears to refer to every incident in the current military confrontation between israel and hezbollah, and not specifically to a single strike in a defined sector. Therefore, the way in which the 2 israeli officers that were killed are represented as the main commanders of the israeli forces in the front, is wrong and creates a misleading impression that the commanders of all israeli forces in the region were killed in one strike/incident (in fact, both of the israeli commanders weren't responsible on division sized forces). Which isn't true. Therefore, I think that the list of the israeli leaders in the front needs to be updated. טוראי פייל (talk) 02:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I assume the commanders should be Ori Gordin and above? Maybe Shai Klapper, the 91st Division commander, can also be included but I'm not sure the 91st Division is the only one responsible for the Lebanon front. Theipu (talk) 18:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 November 2023
Danyd92 (talk) 19:20, 5 November 2023 (UTC) Another Israeli civilian has been killed, as well as an Israeli soldier who died of his wounds following an accident. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-civilian-killed-in-anti-tank-missile-attack-from-lebanon-amid-escalation/
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Sirdog (talk) 05:24, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 November 2023
change israeli casualties per hezbollah from 120 to over 350 killed or injured.

in hassan nasrallah's speech, he stated that over 350 israelis have been killed or injured from the beginning of the conflict. AliDaniFarhat (talk) 14:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Claim still has to be verified. It’s not as if Hezbollah could count and see every cadaver they claim. Borgenland (talk) 14:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Military death incorrectly listed as civilian
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/civilian-killed-in-hezbollah-attack-on-kiryat-shmona-named-as-meir-mouyal-55/

Article says civilian was killed while working on behalf of the Israeli armed forces. Should be listed as death of a combantant. 161.216.164.22 (talk) 15:22, 8 November 2023 (UTC)


 * https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-civilian-killed-in-anti-tank-missile-attack-from-lebanon-amid-escalation/
 * Hezbollah at the time of the attack stated they attacked an IDF position, however israel stated a civilian was killed and only clarified that he was a combatant four days later. This Wikipedia article still shows him as a civilian with no clarification 2605:B100:D4D:6C2F:0:5:B40A:2801 (talk) 18:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * just gonna ignore this injustice? Now we know who the real terrorists are 2605:B100:D21:68E5:0:F:D83F:A601 (talk) 02:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

al-Fajr Forces of the Islamic Group in Lebanon are a belligerent
Please add the Islamic Group and its military wing, the al-Fajr Forces to the infobox as belligerents and units involved, respectively. I will demonstrate below why this change should be made. Editors might also consider including some of this information into the body of the article.

The al-Fajr Forces took responsibility for a volley of missiles which struck Kiryat Shemona on Sunday, October 29, 2023. [1]

The al-Fajr Forces claimed to have launched missiles against Israeli targets from southern Lebanon on October 18, 2023. [2]

Corroboration: [3] [4].

Thank you. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 00:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades of the PFLP are not a belligerent
Hello all, I have reviewed the source provided next to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in the infobox and do not believe that this justifies its inclusion as a belligerent. While the group has declared a state of mobilization among its ranks in Lebanon, it has not claimed responsibility for any attacks on the border, nor have any attacks been ascribed to it. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 00:04, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Civilians death
7 Lebanese civilians have died not 16, 2 in chebaa, 1 journalist and 4 in the massacre israel done against 3 children 5.195.212.42 (talk) 04:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 November 2023
Israeli casualties reported by Hezbollah as of nov/22/23 is 354 according to an official statement by Hezbollah. 2600:1702:2DF0:12B0:C05F:6D92:EBEC:9057 (talk) 11:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Edward-Woodrow (talk) 23:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 22 November 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 18:34, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes → 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict- Should there be a discussion about changing the name from 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes to 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict because of the death toll and rise in violence. HuntersHistory (talk) 23:03, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I suggested this previously already, and it seems more apt now, yes. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:43, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have opened it up as a discussion to
 * see what more people think. HuntersHistory (talk) 16:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Israeli civilians displaced not shown in infobox
While the infobox mentions the amount of Lebanese displaced, it doesn't mention the amount of Israelis that had been displaced.

The amount is already stated in the page itself, so it's weird that no one added it to the infobox.

Can anyone edit the infobox and add the number?

Side note, the amount that evacuated is much higher than 65,000 people. Back at the 26th of october, there were 60,000 evacuated from the north of Israel (In hebrew, first bold line in the body of the article), the number has risen since. Current numbers of total evacuees from both North and South are between 200,000 to 300,000, and the line of evacuation was upgraded from 2KM to 5KM from the border with Lebanon. I can't find specific number for evacuees from the north, so it's 60,000+ (outdated). Shisoy (talk) 23:24, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 December 2023
4th Israeli civilian killed at the border with Lebanon. Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-civilian-killed-by-anti-tank-missile-in-north-as-hezbollah-attacks-continue/ Danyd92 (talk) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 17:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Fatalities to update
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/hezbollah-escalates-attacks-on-israels-northern-front -Israel's Channel 12 reported: "8 IDF soldiers were killed today on the border with Lebanon." Elia Tamburin (talk) 17:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Done.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Israeli death toll drops?
So not long ago there were 10 Israeli soldier deaths listed here. Now the number is 9. What's the matter? Don't we know the names of these fallen?
 * Most likely a error. I have checked any source or name of the 10th soldier.No mention of him.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Bombs
"According to the photos presented by the "Washington Post" and video clips coming from Lebanon, it can be seen that the IDF made use of these measures, mainly in open areas covered with tangled and thick vegetation. There are many such areas in the Upper Galilee, mainly in nature reserves, but in Lebanon these nature reserves cover military compounds established by Hezbollah and its Radwan force as forward bases from which the organization's fighters are supposed to launch operations against Israel."

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bykjwxbip

"Kirby also added that “it's important to remind that white phosphorus does have a legitimate military utility, in terms of illumination and cruising smoke to conceal movements. And obviously, anytime that we provide items like white phosphorus to another military, it is with a full expectation that it will be used in keeping with those legitimate purposes and in keeping with the law of armed conflict.” https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bykjwxbip 2.55.164.84 (talk) 08:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Shooting on civilians
"Hezbollah accepted responsibility for firing an anti-tank missile near Moshav Dovev, from which 15 civilians were injured, one critically and one seriously. Seven soldiers were slightly wounded by an IED hit near Menara. Hamas in Lebanon accepted responsibility for firing rockets at Kiryat Bialik and Acre." https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-11-12/ty-article/0000018b-c37e-dc2b-a3fb-e7fe784c0000

"Dozens of launches were recorded this morning (Thursday) in one volley from Lebanon towards many settlements in the Upper Galilee and above the Galilee, the farthest of which is Biriya. Alarms were also activated in the Miron area, in one of the most significant barrages in the north since the war began 48 days ago. Hezbollah claimed that 48 rockets were launched in that barrage."

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sjai2yn4t

It was happened at the past:

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2007/iopt0807/2.htm 2.55.175.4 (talk) 08:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Wounded Lebanese Army soldiers now at eight.
First on CNN: US rebukes Israel for more than 30 attacks on Lebanese military amid concerns of Gaza conflict widening "US officials believe Israel’s attacks on the Lebanese military have resulted in at least eight injuries and one death since October 7." An edit to the casualties section of the infobox to reflect as such would be appreciated. UncleBourbon (talk) 05:56, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Updated infobox "casualties3" section as requested. DigitalChutney (talk) 13:59, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Outdated Claims About Israeli Casualties and the Number of Operations
1-The Latest Claim that Hezbollah released about the number of Israelis killed is 354 killed/wounded. (The claim comes from Hezbollah's official Military Media, you can see a repost of the claim here: https://twitter.com/shigri_zayeem/status/1727780958441717936 . The infographic was also made by Hezbollah)

2- Hezbollah also claims that they did more than 509 Military Operations against the Israeli Defence Forces since October 8. (The claim comes also from Hezbollah's Official Military Media, you can see a repost of the claim here: https://twitter.com/AoR3138/status/1735684269731614776 )  InfiniteValrath (talk) 06:00, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Kibutz
"09:52/אולם התרבות של קיבוץ בגליל נפגע מירי נ"ט תושבים מהגליל העליון מדווחים כי ירי נ"ט פגע באולם התרבות והמופעים של קיבוץ סאסא. עוד נמסר כי אין נפגעים באירוע." "09:52 The cultural hall of a Galilee kibbutz was hit by anti-tank fire Residents of the Upper Galilee report that anti-tank fire hit the cultural and performance hall of Kibbutz Sasa. It was also reported that there were no casualties in the incident."https://news.walla.co.il/blog/3629261 2.55.21.91 (talk) 08:30, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Far from neutral
Uses weasel words and point-of-view forks Moniquebonique (talk) 10:45, 18 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Moniquebonique: Hello, could you point some of them out for me so I can change? Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Timeline of clashes is very large- split?
The Events section of the article is about 85 kb, and it looks like a split into an article consisting of a timeline of the clashes shouldn't be ruled out as a possibility. I may do this in the near future, and consolidate the info on border clashes in this article, just notifying here too if that happens and why it would - presidentofyes, the super aussa man 16:57, 23 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Probably need to prepare a summary before making said move. Borgenland (talk) 18:04, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Presidentofyes12: I agree. Its very silly having it and to keep expanding it at this point. Prodrummer619 (talk) 09:24, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Shooting from a mosque
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/b1spbvuda 2.55.15.25 (talk) 13:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

A cherch
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/b1spbvuda 2.55.15.25 (talk) 12:13, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-5ca88108727ac81026.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:1915:D7B3:DF90:FF6F (talk) 18:49, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Bad casualty interpretation
the four civilian deaths are not the non combat deaths of idf. There were 8 soldiers killed in combat, 3 soldiers killed in accidents, and 4 civilians killed. Only three non combat IDF deaths. Total should be 11 soldiers, 4 civilians on Israel side as of 22 Dec 2023 2605:B100:D20:655B:0:5:34B0:2501 (talk) 17:42, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. But another one died on 22 after your comment.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:41, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

biased wording not supported by source
"The IDF fired warning shots and used riot dispersal means at 18 people, including journalists and parliamentarians that crossed the border from Lebanon and walked 80 meters into Israeli territory.[42]" — as the cited article says, they walked into israeli-occupied disputed territory, not unambiguously israeli territory 130.180.88.101 (talk) 00:02, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Should there maybe be a new page because of Hamas in Lebanon.

 * W With the creation of the page Hamas in Lebanon and the escalating conflict I wounder if a page should be created called something like 2023-2024 Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon or Hamas insurgency in South Lebanon and some of the stuff be merged there much like how the PLO in Lebanon page is connected to the Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon and the 1982 Lebanon War HuntersHistory (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 January 2024
In the latest hezbollah infographic on November 23, they claimed 354 israel soldiers wounded/killed on the border. 185.118.220.5 (talk) 10:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RetroCosmos (talk) 17:30, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 January 2024 (2)
Per Hezbollah: 120 killed/wounded Should be 354 killed/wounded 185.118.220.5 (talk) 10:41, 5 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Borgenland (talk) 17:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Correct the Hezbollah retaliation to Saleh Al Arouri's assasination.
Hezbollah confirmed launching 62 rockets towards an israeli air command center in mount meron.

Add that info and correct the mistakes made, also correct the fact that this is an initial response, as stated by Hezbollah.

The people who have rights to edit this article should 1rst and foremost look at Hezbollah's statements if they write about their operations, all info necessary will be found there. 80.220.74.143 (talk) 14:40, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Add Amal movement units and leader
Add afwaj mokawama lobnaniya amal for the military units involved and the commander nabih berri since everyday includes a lot of rocket firing from them to israel Moudb (talk) 19:50, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 26 December 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:43, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict → 2023 Israel–Hezbollah conflict – At the onset of hostilities, the conflict was limited to the Israel-Lebanon border but since then, both Israel and Hezbollah deepened their strikes, stretching beyond the border area. Additionally, IDF is operating deep inside Syria, not just around the Golan Heights. With that in mind, I think it would suitable to find a new name for the article, I think 2023 Israel–Hezbollah conflict would be suitable. Other suggestions are also welcome. Ecrusized (talk) 12:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Whilst I do agree that the conflict has expanded from the Lebanese border, it is worth also acknowledging that the fighting is definitely not just between Israel and Hezbollah. Numerous other groups have also entered and have been actively fighting against Israel. Perhaps a more fitting name would be something along the lines of “2023 Northern Israel Conflict”, or “2023 Israel—Lebanon/Syria Conflict”. IiSmxyzXX (talk) 21:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Non-ECP account participating on ECP article move discussion. Ecrusized (talk) 21:55, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think 2023 Israel–Hezbollah conflict is a fine name but we also got to think about the name based on other groups involved in the conflict so maybe something like Israel–Lebanon conflict (2023-Present), Northern Israel Conflict (2023-present), South Lebanon conflict (2023-Present), 2023-2024 Shebaa Farms conflict, 2023-2024 Levant Conflict, or something else, also since 2023 is almost over maybe it’s better to move it to 2023-2024 Israel–Hezbollah conflict, Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023-Present), or Israel–Lebanon conflict (2023-present) HuntersHistory (talk) 00:22, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Support - indeed though Hezbollah party is part of the Lebanese government, the Republic of Lebanon is not (yet) directly participating in fighting vs Israel. 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict is correct, but Israel-Hezbollah conflict is the most correct naming term and in line with sources like .GreyShark (dibra) 16:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. It isn't possible to tell the whole story in the title, but the proposed version is closer to the facts than the current version. The only other possibility I see is to note that the border is indeed the Israel–Lebanon border, so we could have something like "2003 conflict at the Israel–Lebanon border". Zerotalk 03:20, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Now that it’s 2024 maybe 2023-2024 Israel–Hezbollah conflict or Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023-Present) because the conflict is ongoing and 2023 is over. HuntersHistory (talk) 05:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose Support: Since the current conflict isn't only taking place the Lebanon-Israel border. Or how about a more descriptive one like 2023 Israel–Hamas war spillover in Lebanon and Syria Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * "2023 Israel–Hamas war spillover in Lebanon and Syria" would be preferable to Israel-Hezbollah conflict. VR talk 17:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Support: No longer limited to borders and limited strikes.--Sakiv (talk) 16:58, 2 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose for now. Israel has targeted Syrian Arab Army as well as the Iranian military, so not sure why this is limited to Hezbollah?VR talk 17:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Israel has been targeting the Syrian Army and IRGC assets in Syria since 2013. But they were collateral deaths as part of the Israeli campaign to suspend arms shipments into Hezbollah in Lebanon. The greater context is Hezbollah–Israel conflict. Ecrusized (talk) 18:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I thought the greater context was 2023 Israel-Hamas war? VR talk 20:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah it's a real quagmire, the main target of Israel in Lebanon and Syria is Hezbollah, similar to how Hamas is its main target in Gaza, but other groups like PIJ etc are also involved. Probably best to name this Hezbollah conflict like how the main article is called "Hamas war" since these two are the largest of the many belligerents. Ecrusized (talk) 22:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Per WP:NCWWW, I propose 2023-present Israel-Lebanon-Syria conflict. Its concise, comprehensive and doesn't confuse Hezbollah for other militaries in the region.VR talk 17:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The "Israel-Lebanon-Syria" is meant to refer to a place as opposed to parties. For example, 2006 Lebanon war was between Israel and Hezbollah, but because of the location we call it "Lebanon". Further, Lebanese civilians unaffiliated with Hezbollah have also been killed making this conflict bigger than Hezbollah itself.VR talk 17:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Support As Israel starts to attack Hezbollah inside Lebanon, this couldn't be just a border conflict.
 * Wendylove (talk) 23:53, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

W:I brought this up farther down with the creation of the page Hamas in Lebanon and the escalating conflict with the creation of the Al-Aqsa Flood Vanguards, the Assassination of Saleh al Arouri, and Mark Regev saying "this was not an attack on the Lebanese state ... Whoever did this did a surgical strike against the Hamas leadership". I wonder if a page should be created called something like 2023-2024 Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon or Hamas insurgency in South Lebanon and some of the stuff be merged there much like how the PLO in Lebanon page is connected to the Palestinian insurgency in South Lebanon and the 1982 Lebanon War and I like the decision of calling this article the 2023-2024 Hezbollah–Israel conflict. HuntersHistory (talk) 00:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Post-move discussion
Now that it has been moved to "2023 Israel-Hezbollah conflict", we should probably remove conflict that doesn't strictly relate to Hezbollah, such as Israeli airstrikes on Iranian and Syrian military targets. Will we also limit this article to 2023, and not include any 2024 events? VR talk 05:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

2,000 Israeli casualties according to Hezbollah
I think this should be removed because the claim is exaggerated. Any party can assert any amount of unattributed claims against their opponents. Ecrusized (talk) 19:47, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Agree with editor 's comments here . NBC is considered an RS. And as long as the claim is properly attributed to Hezbollah for the reader to understand there is no reason to remove it. EkoGraf (talk) 20:07, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt the reliability of NBC News..... I doubt that Hezbollah is a reliable source. Ecrusized (talk) 21:06, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * As Genabab said himself, it is most likely not true. However, we still include claims of all belligerents in a conflict for the sake of NPOV balance, presenting all sides POV. Like we have included over in the main Israel-Hamas conflict article the mention of Israel's claim they killed 1,000 militants in those first days within Israel, or like we include both Ukraine's and Russia's claims of their enemies losses over at the Russia-Ukraine war article (all figures that are more than likely inflated for the sake of propaganda), EkoGraf (talk) 21:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I would agree that its probably not true, but deciding that, is not Wikipedia's job. Really, as long as NBC (a rs) is saying "Hezbollah claimed this" that's reason enough to include it. But only if we do say 'claimed by' Hezbollah. since other groups like the IDF are denying it. Genabab (talk) 20:09, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Shot at house
https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/2024_q1/Article-963b7a378480d81026.htm?sCh=31750a2610f26110&pId=173113802 2.55.167.54 (talk) 17:20, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Al manar
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bk5ryxqca 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:E139:30F8:BF3:D3FE (talk) 23:38, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 January 2024
https://www.alnour.com.lb/news/ordinary/75020/%D9%81%D8%B6%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87-%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%B4-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87%D9%88%D8%AF-%D9%88%D9%86%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%B6-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B8%D9%84%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8A

See link above that contradicts the text in quotation currently present in this article, I quote Hezbollah not only opposes the government and policies of the State of Israel, but also each and every Jewish civilian who lives in Israel.

FadlAllah and other religious leaders have always stated that there is no animosity to jews, but that they oppose Zionism, you can read it in the link I've attached above, and you can find other examples. The manifesto mentioned in the wikipedia article and the personality being quoted, is not a media relation director as mentioned in link 36. Also most of the links are not from Hezbollah or neutral sources, but sources who are in conflict with the movement, I would hence encourage links that are neutral, and if this is not available then at least add a counter link that can contradict the opposing link. Accusation such as Hezbollah or other movements oppose Jews in general are serious. You should take example on your Hezbollah article in the arabic language that has a whole section dedicated on how Hezbollah view jews see below https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A3%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%84%D9%88%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%A7_%D8%AD%D8%B2%D8%A8_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87 Abysmalwinger (talk) 23:42, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: I've modified that line to specify the time frame, but I'm not clear on how the person in the source is related to Hezbollah, as it doesn't mention Hezbollah in the source. The Arabic Wikipedia article you linked to seems to be a translation of our article on the same topic at Ideology of Hezbollah. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 18:26, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

What to do about the 2 dead search-and-rescuers?
So far, we have been unable to come up with an effective solution for where, in the casualties section, to place the two Hezbollah-linked dead search-and-rescuers. I, provisionally, put them apart from Hezbollah casualties, but they were then merged with the Hezbollah casualties. The issue is that RS do not merge these counts, making our total Hezbollah death count 2 higher than those in RS. Because of this, they were removed recently from the Hezbollah death toll, but are now simply absent entirely. This needs to be fixed, as the lack of these two deaths means that our conflict-total is off by two. What should be done about this issue? TheAwesomeAtom (talk) 19:42, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Search-and-rescuers are civilians, not combatants, and should be counted as civilians. EkoGraf (talk) 02:43, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Aight, fair enough. TheAwesomeAtom (talk) 17:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 25 January 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. consensus not to move (closed by non-admin page mover) Warm Regards, ZI Jony  (Talk) 15:27, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → Israel–Hezbollah War (2023–present) – If the 2,000 casualties per Hezbollah is true should this be moved to Israel–Hezbollah War (2023–present) because that would be enough deaths to be considered a war and I think we should discuss this. HuntersHistory (talk) 22:01, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose (for now) - If reliable sources start calling it a war, then we can change it, as per WP:COMMONNAME. At the moment, I haven't seen sources calling it a war. EkoGraf (talk) 23:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not described as a war by RS. Ecrusized (talk) 15:50, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose current name meets WP:COMMON and is more WP:PRECISE than any alternative.  // Timothy :: talk  21:28, 27 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Support I respect the points raised, but I'd like to offer a different perspective. Even if some sources hesitate to use the term "war", the conflict's characteristics (casualties, sustained military engagement, regional implications) arguably align more closely with traditional definitions of war than a lower-intensity conflict. We should consider these tangible factors, in addition to labels, when assessing the conflict's nature. Media outlets, particularly in the West, can sometimes be slow to adopt terms like "war" due to legal and political sensitivities. This reluctance shouldn't prevent us from using the most accurate descriptor as the situation develops. While "conflict" is technically accurate, it risks downplaying the severity of the situation. "War", while carrying its own connotations, offers a more precise and informative title. Detsom (talk) 23:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add name of killed Hezbollah commanders to commanders and leaders
Someone should add “Ali al-debs” to the commanders and leaders column. https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1368298/senior-hezbollah-commander-al-debs-killed-in-israeli-strike-on-nabatieh.html

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2461511/middle-east Jabbatheblack (talk) 17:08, 24 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Should also add the commander “Mohammed Alawiyeh”
 * https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hezbollah-commander-dies-days-after-being-injured-in-an-israeli-strike/ Jabbatheblack (talk) 02:32, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Also “Hassan Salami” who was killed today
 * https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-it-killed-senior-hezbollah-commander-in-south-lebanon-strike/ Jabbatheblack (talk) 21:57, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Wrong details in the Template
In the Israeli side,

Units - It implies only the 188th Armored Brigade participated. That brigade is part of 36th Division, but that entire division was in Gaza and surroundings in 7.10.23 - January. That brigade was in no way participating in the conflict yet. Only 91st Division (including 300th brigade in which its 2nd rank officer Alim Abdallah was killed) and 210th Division participated in the conflict in a low-volume fighting.

Killed civilians - it implies 0 Israeli civilians killed although 6 Israeli civilians killed. IdanST (talk) 10:34, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Misleading Details in Casaulties Section
Per Israel, total casaulties are 8 soldiers and 6 civilians, not 14 soldiers.

Yet, in the page it's stated "Casualties and losses// Per Israel 14 soldiers killed". Even in the same page some of the reported incidents in which Israelis were killed it's explicitly stated they were civilians. For example, "On 5 November, Hezbollah shot down an Israeli Elbit Hermes 450 drone over Nabatieh, with wreckage falling over houses in the towns of Zabdin and Harouf. One Israeli civilian was killed when anti-tank missiles hit the Yiftah kibbutz. Four people were reportedly injured after an Israeli bombing that hit two ambulances. Later, an Israeli airstrike hit two civilian cars in Lebanon carrying members of the same family driving between the towns of Aynata and Aitaroun which killed one women, three of her granddaughters between the ages of 10 and 14, and severely injured her daughter. In response, Hezbollah fired at Kiryat Shmona, killing an Israeli civilian." IdanST (talk) 19:07, 24 February 2024 (UTC)


 * 14 Israeli soldiers and 6 civilians were killed. However some of the "civilians" killer were working on behalf of Idf by their own admission. It should be worth noting that Hezbollah has the highest ratio of military to civilians casualties in the history of modern warfare. For example during the south lebanon conflict in the 90s 300 israel soldiers were killed vs 4 civilians, one of whom was a reporter embedded with a general who was eliminated in a surgical operation. That's a 99-1 ratio 2605:B100:D4C:A51:0:C:860B:E01 (talk) 17:10, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
 * False, 8 soldiers and 6 civilians in the Israeli side were killed.
 * By the way, it has been updated since in the Wiki Hebrew version that 10 soldiers and 6 civilians were killed.
 * Considering civilians as both civilians and soldiers is misleading. IdanST (talk) 10:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 10 or 11 soldiers killed 6 civians killed and 3 soldiers in accidents. Not sure what the ambiguity between the 10 or 11 soldiers is caused by 2605:B100:D4C:A51:0:C:860B:E01 (talk) 21:41, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Totally 10 killed Israeli soldiers in the conflict, so 10 died in the conflict and 46 others died in accidents, 3 of them under the Israeli Northern Command, but not due to the conflict (soldiers die each year by accidents like speeding or messing with ammmunition etc.).
 * By the way, I'm shocked that the main template shows 44-61 civilians killed in Lebanon and implies 0 Israeli civilians died. IdanST (talk) 10:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * three were killed in accidents directly related to operations in the north, 2 in a tank accident on the lebanese border, one by munitions explosion and are listed in official casualties. See the hyperlink in casualties section 100.43.116.198 (talk) 05:25, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) and Syrian civil war
Should this conflict be included as part of Iran-Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war or not? Wendylove (talk) 22:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Selfstudier, let’s do rfcbefore first and maybe elaborate on the reasons for your request should you choose to do another RfC. FortunateSons (talk) 18:30, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Where is the RFCbefore? I don't understand the question either.Selfstudier (talk) 11:32, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Ambulance
https://www.kan.org.il/content/kan-news/defense/725453/ 2.55.173.209 (talk) 13:35, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

30 march
"On 30 March, Reuters reported that an Israeli strike had injured three UN observers and a translator who were monitoring hostilities along the Blue Line. Israel denied involvement in the attack" Later, lebanonian people blamed Hezbollah according to this source 2.55.190.48 (talk) 10:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 11 April 2024
<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 15:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → Israel–Lebanon–Syria conflict (2023–present) – The article covers not just the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict in Lebanon, but the conflict in Syria as well. As the casualties list shows only about half the casualties are Hezbollah, the rest are Syrian, Iranian and Palestinian combatants. In this case, the "Israel-Lebanon-Syria" will imply the location of where the conflict has occurred, not the participants (as recommended by WP:NCWWW). Indeed, it would be WP:CONSISTENT with 2006 Lebanon war and South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000), which are both named after places the conflict happened rather than the combatants. VR (Please ping on reply) 03:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose - The current conflict is due to Hezbollah's reaction following the Israel-Hamas war. Syria and Lebanon are not an official and acting player in the conflict. The discussed conflict remains mostly between Israel and Hezbollah with the occasional interception of Hamas, AMAL and other backed Iranian groups.
 * The unfortunate casualties are a consequence of the conflict and operations between Israel and Hezbollah.
 * The current conflict is a completely separate event then the previous Lebanon war and there is no reason or advantage in making them part of a chain.
 * Therefor the current title of the article reflects the body of the article discussing the current conflict and the forces operating in it.  OliveTree39 (talk) 12:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "The unfortunate casualties" - I don't think anyone is denying that Israel has deliberately targeted Syrian and Iranian military personnel and assets. Its not like Syria and Iran are caught in crossfire, they are very much combatants. VR (Please ping on reply) 18:20, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support - As far as I know, there isn't another article that meaningfully covers the events in Syria and attacks on Hamas and Iranian proxies in Lebanon. The strikes in Syria are clearly significant, and if they're being covered in the article the name should be changed to reflect that. This seems like the best place to put it for now. We can always move things around if later developments warrant adjustment. Unbandito (talk) 22:00, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose - The events in Syria belong in Iran-Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war, not here. ערן117 (talk) 03:13, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources do not connect the 2024 Israeli bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus to the Syrian civil war, but they connect the bombing to the war in Gaza:
 * "[Iran] accused Israel of bombing its embassy complex in Syria on Monday, in a deadly escalation of regional tensions over the war in Gaza..." CNN
 * "following an airstrike that hit the Iranian consulate in Syria...fears grow that an Iranian attack may be imminent — and the war in Gaza may spread." NPR
 * "Tehran will soon strike back for the attack on its embassy in Syria that killed a number of senior commanders. The exchanges have raised fears that the Israel-Hamas war that has devastated the Gaza Strip could escalate into a wider conflict." NBC News
 * Additionally, given that a Hezbollah member was killed in that airstrike its hard to see how that's not related to this conflict. VR (Please ping on reply) 20:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That Hezbollah member isn't even mentioned in the article. ערן117 (talk) 04:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. These non-geographical descriptive conflict names have been bogus from the start based on our own guidelines. And as noted, the current title is wayward in terms of accuracy. In Lebanon alone there are other Palestinian groups in play, and then we have the Syria sphere. Israel has also been gleefully bombing lots of non-Hezbollah things. Lebanese villages and farmland for one. Also journalists. And then old grannies and their grandkids out in their clearly civilian cars. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:41, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose per @OliveTree39 and @ערן117, additionally/particularly due to the context of the weighting of this article and conflict and a 'common sense application' of who the specific combatants are; almost no one is calling the Vietnam War the "Second Indochina War" in common parlance (due to the involvement of Laos). When someone is referring to the main part of the conflict, there are two primary belligerents, and neither of them is Libanon or Syria (additional weighting criteria like shared responsibility do not apply). It is also a longer and more unwieldy title.
 * Regarding geographical descriptions, it wasn't the first use of state vs. armed group/armed group in conflict, see: War against the Islamic State, Hezbollah involvement in the Syrian civil war, or of broadly-used euphemisms: The Troubles. FortunateSons (talk) 07:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Most events that have occurred in Syria involve Hezbollah and its funder Iran so I'd rather have "state vs armed group". Proposed title also suggests that states of Lebanon, Israel and Syria are fighting each other which they are not.
 * Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Conflict is mostly limited to Hezbollah attacks on Israel, and Israeli retaliation against Hezbollah (which occasionally cause collateral damage to Syrian Army and Iran-backed militiamen).
 * Ecrusized (talk) 09:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose But if so, all losses suffered in Syria to be excluded of the article and Battle box. Is misleading to consider those losses when the name and content exlude Syria.Mr.User200 (talk) 23:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Makes it sound like a three-way war and for some reason reminds me of the War of the Triple Alliance. Plus, at the very least the Lebanese state has not been in active conflict. Borgenland (talk) Borgenland (talk) 17:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I appreciate the reason for this proposal (and in particular Iskandar323's point that Hezbollah is in alliance with other groups and that Israel has struck non-Hezbollah targets) but I am opposed (a) because the name would be very confusing and counterintuitive (per Borgenland), (b) because although Hezbollah has allies and although civilians are caught up, it is Hezbollah who are the primary belligerants on that side, and (c) because Hezbollah is not just located in Lebanon but also in Syria so leaving the placenames out is not in any way misleading. I think that the sentence at the top of the infobox ("Part of the Hezbollah–Israel conflict amidst the Israel–Hamas war, Iran–Israel proxy conflict and Iran–Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war") does the work of showing the bigger picture it is part of. However, I agree with Mr.User200 that the Syrian deaths don't fit in the infobox. BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:00, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support civilians have also been targeting by Israel whereas they have all the power to strike with precise surgical touches, it is not just Israel–Hezbollah Conflict anymore. Deblinis (talk) 12:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The conflict (or rather an ongoing war) is between Israel and Hezbollah. Yes, the Syrian Hezbollah can also be involved. Sure, just as in any other war, the people who live at the affected territories (Lebanon and Syria) will suffer. But this should not affect naming of the page, which is consistent with WP:COMMON NAME. My very best wishes (talk) 17:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Update casualties
https://www.timesofisrael.com/reservist-succumbs-to-wounds-sustained-in-hezbollah-drone-attack/ 2605:B100:D4E:1E32:0:9:A969:1F01 (talk) 19:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Kiryat Shmona
user:TheAwesomeAtom. Direct hits Many fires near Highway 90 and near Kiryat Shmona due to 35 launches from Lebanon.

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/h1g5wcjmc#autoplay 77.127.183.251 (talk) 21:17, 10 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you, updating now! TheAwesomeAtom (talk) 21:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah deaths are inconsistent
We know for sure that a total of 297 Hezbollah members have died. However, 42 are listed to have died in Syria and 267 in Lebanon, summing up to 309. That means that there are twelve Hezbollah deaths that did not happen, most likely due to editors seeing things like "two Hezbollah killed in airstrike in Naquroa" and then adding two to the Lebanese count, not realizing that another editors has already done so. I find it likely that the phantom twelve deaths are in the Lebanese count, as the Syrian count has been static at 42 for quite some time. However, I won't change the Lebanon count from 267 to 255 without until I get some feedback on this, due to the fact that I could theoretically be wrong about Syria being the correct count and Lebanon being the wrong one. What do you all think? TheAwesomeAtom (talk) 21:40, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit request - correct some of the casualties data
It seems that the numbers of deaths under casualties and losses is different than the numbers in the referenced articles.

1. Please change "20 soldiers killed (3 non-combat)" to "14 soldiers killed (3 non-combat)" as these are the numbers mentioned in the sources. 2. Please change "89 civilians killed in Lebanon" to "82 civilians killed in Lebanon" as this is the number used in the source. 3. Please change "15 Syrian civilians killed" to "10 Syrian civilians killed". Source 31 is very outdated and mentions only 5 killed civilian and probably should be removed. Source 32 is more up to date and mentions 10 killed civilian. Guy Haddad 1 (talk) 10:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Drine on a mall
you have to add: https://www.ynet.co.il/blogs/244dayswar 2.55.181.101 (talk) 17:03, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah
hezbollah death toll is 338/339 KIA. However I agree is not a all out war for it to be labeled as such. Conflict remains satisfactory term for now till however long. 109.144.19.150 (talk) 17:17, 11 June 2024 (UTC)


 * That death toll is approx 342-344 as of now. Hezbollah 91.216.55.150 (talk) 13:23, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 8 June 2024
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 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 17:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → Israel–Hezbollah war (2023–present) – 173.72.3.91 (talk) 15:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Change article name to Israel–Hezbollah war (2023–present) 173.72.3.91 (talk) 20:29, 7 June 2024 (UTC)


 * its more of an attrition conflict than a war since no battles have happend yet Waterlover3 (talk) 16:15, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Level of fighting does not deem it so. Borgenland (talk) 16:36, 8 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose – Not officially a war yet. Chomik!  ( talk? ) 16:05, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose – as WP:FUTURE. Hogo-2020 (talk) 07:30, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment – fighting between Israel and hezbollah has been going on for more than 8 months — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.3.91 (talk) 20:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Note that unsigned IP editor was the same proponent of this poorly-written proposal. Borgenland (talk) 05:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Might add that, in move requests, the nomination implies support for the rename.  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;, ed.  put'er there 02:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose No Battles, No changes in territory (frontline), although casualties are heavy enough to be considered a war but that alone doesn't constitute a valid reason Waleed  (talk) 05:33, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.