Talk:Israel/Archive 63

RfC, history section of Israel article
As was done at the RfC on the History section of the Jews article, am proposing to revise the history section. Below, please see original version, version with marked changes, and the clean revised version. I've removed images just to reduce clutter; they can stay. Jytdog (talk) 16:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Antiquity (current)
The notion of the "Land of Israel", known in Hebrew as Eretz Yisrael, has been important and sacred to the Jewish people since Biblical times. According to the Torah, God promised the land to the three Patriarchs of the Jewish people. On the basis of scripture, the period of the three Patriarchs has been placed somewhere in the early 2nd millennium BCE. The first record of the name Israel (as ysrỉꜣr) occurs in the Merneptah Stele, erected for Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah c. 1209 BCE, "Israel is laid waste and his seed is not." This "Israel" was a cultural and probably political entity of the central highlands, well enough established to be perceived by the Egyptians as a possible challenge to their hegemony, but an ethnic group rather than an organised state. The Merneptah Stele is one of four known contemporary inscriptions from antiquity containing the name of Israel, the others being the Tel Dan Stele, the Mesha Stele, and the Kurkh Monolith. The name appears much earlier, as a personal name, in material from Ebla.

Modern scholars see Israel arising peacefully and internally from existing people in the highlands of Canaan. McNutt says, "It is probably safe to assume that sometime during Iron Age I a population began to identify itself as 'Israelite'", differentiating itself from the Canaanites through such markers as the prohibition of intermarriage, an emphasis on family history and genealogy, and religion. Elizabeth Bloch-Smith has written that demographic and cultural features exclusive to "Israelites" did not emerge until the Iron II period. She wrote that Iron I cultic practices, burial practices, architecture and material culture continued Late Bronze Age "Canaanite" traditions.

Ancestors of the Israelites may have included Semites native to Canaan and the Sea Peoples. The archaeological evidence indicates a society of village-like centres, but with more limited resources and a small population. Villages had populations of up to 300 or 400, which lived by farming and herding, and were largely self-sufficient; economic interchange was prevalent. Writing was known and available for recording, even in small sites. The first Kingdom of Israel was established around the 11th century BCE. Subsequent Israelite kingdoms and states ruled intermittently over the next four hundred years, and are known from various extra-biblical sources.

Around 930 BCE, the kingdom split into a southern Kingdom of Judah and a northern Kingdom of Israel. From the middle of the 8th century BCE Israel came into increasing conflict with the expanding Neo-Assyrian Empire. Under Tiglath-Pileser III it first split Israel's territory into several smaller units and then destroyed its capital, Samaria (722 BCE). An Israelite revolt (724–722 BCE) was crushed after the siege and capture of Samaria by the Assyrian king Sargon II. Sargon's son, Sennacherib, tried and failed to conquer Judah. Assyrian records say he leveled 46 walled cities and besieged Jerusalem, leaving after receiving extensive tribute.

In 586 BCE, King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon conquered Judah. According to the Hebrew Bible, he destroyed Solomon's Temple and exiled the Jews to Babylon. The defeat was also recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles. In 538 BCE, Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylon and took over its empire. Cyrus issued a proclamation granting subjugated nations, including the people of Judah, religious freedom (for the original text, which corroborates the biblical narrative only in very broad terms, see the Cyrus Cylinder). According to the Hebrew Bible, 50,000 Judeans, led by Zerubbabel, returned to Judah and rebuilt the temple. A second group of 5,000, led by Ezra and Nehemiah, returned to Judah in 456 BCE although non-Jews wrote to Cyrus to try to prevent their return.

Antiquity (changes marked)
The notion of the "Land of Israel", known in Hebrew as Eretz Yisrael, has been important and sacred to the Jewish people since Biblical times. According to the Torah, God promised the land to the three Patriarchs of the Jewish people. On the basis of scripture, the period of the three Patriarchs has been placed somewhere in the early 2nd millennium BCE.

The early history of the territory is unclear.

The first record of the name Israel (as ysrỉꜣr) occurs in the Merneptah Stele, erected for Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah c. 1209 BCE, "Israel is laid waste and his seed is not." This "Israel" was a cultural and probably political entity of the central highlands, well enough established to be perceived by the Egyptians as a possible challenge to their hegemony, but an ethnic group rather than an organised state. The Merneptah Stele is one of four known contemporary inscriptions from antiquity containing the name of Israel, the others being the Tel Dan Stele, the Mesha Stele, and the Kurkh Monolith. The name appears much earlier, as a personal name, in material from Ebla.

Modern archaeology has largely discarded the historicity of the narrative in the Torah concerning the patriarchs, The Exodus, and the conquest described in the Book of Joshua, and instead views the narrative as constituting the Israelites' inspiring national myth narrative. The Israelites and their culture, according to the modern archaeological account, did not overtake the region by force, but instead branched out of the Canaanite peoples and culture through the development of a distinct monolatristic—and later monotheistic—religion centered on Yahweh. The growth of Yahweh-centric belief, along with a number of cultic practices, gradually gave rise to a distinct Israelite ethnic group, setting them apart from other Canaanites. Modern scholars see Israel arising peacefully and internally from existing people in the highlands of Canaan. McNutt says, "It is probably safe to assume that sometime during Iron Age I a population began to identify itself as 'Israelite'", differentiating itself from the Canaanites through such markers as the prohibition of intermarriage, an emphasis on family history and genealogy, and religion. Elizabeth Bloch-Smith has written that demographic and cultural features exclusive to "Israelites" did not emerge until the Iron II period. She wrote that Iron I cultic practices, burial practices, architecture and material culture continued Late Bronze Age "Canaanite" traditions.

Note: this bit moved up higher, in the clean version below: Ancestors of the Israelites may have included Semites ancient Semitic-speaking peoples native to Canaan and the Sea Peoples. The archaeological evidence indicates a society of village-like centres, but with more limited resources and a small population. Villages had populations of up to 300 or 400, which lived by farming and herding, and were largely self-sufficient; economic interchange was prevalent. Writing was known and available for recording, even in small sites. The first Kingdom of Israel was established around the 11th century BCE. Subsequent Israelite kingdoms and states ruled intermittently over the next four hundred years, and are known from various extra-biblical sources.

Around 930 BCE, the kingdom split into a southern Kingdom of Judah and a northern Kingdom of Israel. From the middle of the 8th century BCE Israel came into increasing conflict with the expanding Neo-Assyrian Empire. Under Tiglath-Pileser III it first split Israel's territory into several smaller units and then destroyed its capital, Samaria (722 BCE). An Israelite revolt (724–722 BCE) was crushed after the siege and capture of Samaria by the Assyrian king Sargon II. Sargon's son, Sennacherib, tried and failed to conquer Judah. Assyrian records say he leveled 46 walled cities and besieged Jerusalem, leaving after receiving extensive tribute.

While it is unclear if there was ever a United Monarchy,  there is well accepted archeological evidence referring to "Israel" in the Merneptah Stele which dates to about 1200 BCE;  and the Canaanites are archeologically attested in the Middle Bronze Age, There is debate about the earliest existence of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah and their extent and power, but historians agree that a Kingdom of Israel existed by ca. 900 BCE   and that a Kingdom of Judah existed by ca. 700 BCE. It is widely accepted that the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed around 720 BCE, when it was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire.

In 586 BCE, King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon conquered Judah. According to the Hebrew Bible, he destroyed Solomon's Temple and exiled the Jews to Babylon. The defeat was also recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles. In 538 BCE, Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylon and took over its empire. Cyrus issued a proclamation granting subjugated nations, including the people of Judah, religious freedom (for the original text, which corroborates the biblical narrative only in very broad terms, see the Cyrus Cylinder). According to the Hebrew Bible, 50,000 Judeans, led by Zerubbabel, returned to Judah and rebuilt the temple. A second group of 5,000, led by Ezra and Nehemiah, returned to Judah in 456 BCE although non-Jews wrote to Cyrus to try to prevent their return. The Babylonian exile ended around 538 BCE under the rule of the Persian Cyrus the Great after he captured Babylon. The Second Temple was constructed around 520 BCE. As part of the Persian Empire, the former Kingdom of Judah became the province of Judah (Yehud Medinata) with different borders, covering a smaller territory. The population of the province was greatly reduced from that of the kingdom, archaeological surveys showing a population of around 30,000 people in the 5th to 4th centuries BCE.

Antiquity (clean, revised)
The early history of the territory is unclear. Modern archaeology has largely discarded the historicity of the narrative in the Torah concerning the patriarchs, The Exodus, and the conquest described in the Book of Joshua, and instead views the narrative as constituting the Israelites' inspiring national myth narrative. Ancestors of the Israelites may have included ancient Semitic-speaking peoples native to Canaan. The archaeological evidence indicates a society of village-like centres, but with more limited resources and a small population. Villages had populations of up to 300 or 400, which lived by farming and herding, and were largely self-sufficient; economic interchange was prevalent. Writing was known and available for recording, even in small sites. The Israelites and their culture, according to the modern archaeological account, did not overtake the region by force, but instead branched out of the Canaanite peoples and culture through the development of a distinct monolatristic—and later monotheistic—religion centered on Yahweh. The growth of Yahweh-centric belief, along with a number of cultic practices, gradually gave rise to a distinct Israelite ethnic group, setting them apart from other Canaanites.

While it is unclear if there was ever a United Monarchy,  there is well accepted archeological evidence referring to "Israel" in the Merneptah Stele which dates to about 1200 BCE;  and the Canaanites are archeologically attested in the Middle Bronze Age, There is debate about the earliest existence of the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah and their extent and power, but historians agree that a Kingdom of Israel existed by ca. 900 BCE   and that a Kingdom of Judah existed by ca. 700 BCE. It is widely accepted that the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed around 720 BCE, when it was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire.

In 586 BCE, King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon conquered Judah. According to the Hebrew Bible, he destroyed Solomon's Temple and exiled the Jews to Babylon. The defeat was also recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles. The Babylonian exile ended around 538 BCE under the rule of the Persian Cyrus the Great after he captured Babylon. The Second Temple was constructed around 520 BCE. As part of the Persian Empire, the former Kingdom of Judah became the province of Judah (Yehud Medinata) with different borders, covering a smaller territory. The population of the province was greatly reduced from that of the kingdom, archaeological surveys showing a population of around 30,000 people in the 5th to 4th centuries BCE.

!votes

 * Both have some merits. I think you should include the first paragraph of the original, followed by the revision. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  17:47, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree with changes for the Persian period (and all the rest). We should present the viewer with scholarly consensus on this matter. Those have priority over narrative.--Chupamus Vergus (talk) 19:29, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Discussion
Note - removed link to "main" History of ancient Israel and Judah which is a very poor article; also removed "further" WL to Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy) as this its existence is uncertain, as is discussed in the revised content. Jytdog (talk) 16:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * User:Cuñado everything other than the first two sentences of the original first paragraph is included at some level in the revision (I left out some details).  So doing what you advise would create redundancy.  If what you are after is keeping those first sentences -- those are statements of belief and they have no place in a section about history. Jytdog (talk) 18:00, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean, but you're going out of your way to avoid mentioning the story of the patriarchs, and in the process creating a bias by omission. You can academically mention the Biblical stories without stating them as truth. Cuñado  ☼ -  Talk  03:42, 18 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The steles should go back in as the earliest written finds mentioning Israel. The notion of Israel as a "holy land", a belief held in antiquity and pesent day by some, either needs to be worked in here or in a separate section.Icewhiz (talk) 18:21, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Merneptah is mentioned as the earliest. That is what is trying to be nailed down - the others are gravy. Jytdog (talk) 18:33, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Missed it. I would add the text inscribed. Regarding Yahweh, it is not clear he was a caananite diety - many place his origins to the south of Israel and outside the local pantheon. There are also various theories regarding replacement of El by Yahweh by the Israelites.Icewhiz (talk) 18:52, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * That is pretty much the scholarly consensus of people who study history of religions - Canaan is a pretty broad concept/region. I do hear you on the Southern thing but it comes in more or less in Canaan. Jytdog (talk) 19:00, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Not really. The mainstream (though not accepted by all) view has him coming from nomads in the southeast - southern transjordan or northern arabia. He is also foriegn to the pantheon which is present in other regional sources (e.g. phonician, ugarit, etc). As a storm god he conflicts with the preexisting pantheon. I would not go into detail regarding this in the Israel article, but rather simply drop Caananite from Yahweh. You can describe the protoypical religion as typical to caanan, but the Yahweh specific diety is not accepted as such.Icewhiz (talk) 19:09, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * fine. Jytdog (talk) 19:19, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Two comments: Onceinawhile (talk) 20:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The sentence "Ancestors of the Israelites may have included Semites native to Canaan and the Sea Peoples." should refer to Ancient semitic-speaking peoples rather than the racial term Semites, and the Sea Peoples should be removed as a disputed and unnecessary term here
 * The sentences on the Cyrus cylinder are too detailed and should be summarized
 * address here. The sea people should stay; MIller-Maxwell is solid and says that. Jytdog (talk) 21:25, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, looks good. Note that Miller-Maxwell is 30 years old now, and most of the recent research which has brought the Sea Peoples concept into question (viewing it a Victorian romanticism) is from the 90s and 2000s. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:32, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, MIller is actually talking about Philistines who may well have been semitic-speaking so fall within the current version. Jytdog (talk) 21:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)


 * History of ancient Israel and Judah is ok. If there's problems, it should be fixed by improving the target article, not removing link to it. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 17:37, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Jytdog, you editing the article and the text here at the same time. What do you expecting people to vote on? --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 03:15, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The RfC is directly above. That is what is being !voted on.  There is no real objection so I might just close this and implement it. Jytdog (talk) 03:21, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Israel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080412082705/http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/about/History/40s/1948/default.htm to http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/about/History/40s/1948/default.htm
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20120529153016/http://jnul.huji.ac.il/eng/lgd.html to http://jnul.huji.ac.il/eng/lgd.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:22, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Antiquity
The last two sentences in the first paragraph in 'Antiquity' are repetitive. "The Israelites and their culture, according to the modern archaeological account, did not overtake the region by force, but instead branched out of the Canaanite peoples and culture through the development of a distinct monolatristic—and later monotheistic—religion centered on Yahweh. The growth of Yahweh-centric belief, along with a number of cultic practices, gradually gave rise to a distinct Israelite ethnic group, setting them apart from other Canaanites."

To author User:Jytdog – what's the point of it? Could it be shortened to one sentence? --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 21:17, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * sure have at it. thx Jytdog (talk) 21:18, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

User:Jytdog, I've noticed you added empty reference (H:CERNT): "As part of the Persian Empire, the former Kingdom of Judah became the province of Judah (Yehud Medinata) with different borders, covering a smaller territory."

--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 19:09, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Fixed here. Thanks for the careful review! Jytdog (talk) 19:22, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 September 2017
This part of the second paragraph in lead where it says "...During the Persian rule, the Jewish autonomous province, Yehud Medinata, had existed for 2 centuries until the conquest of Alexander the Great." should say instead the number in letters: "Yehud Medinata, had existed for two centuries until the conquest..."--181.95.225.187 (talk) 03:59, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done —   IVORK  Discuss 04:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 September 2017
Haskalah as a "precursor of Zionism"? Excuse me, are you serious? I don't think this is the correct link for "national awakening", since the emancipation of Jews brought forth two opposing movements: On the one hand, cultural assimilation proposed by the Haskalah of Mendelssohn. On the other hand, Zionism proposed by Herzl, which basically was Jewish nationalism contradicting what the Haskalah sought: The integration of Jews into European societies. Zionism believed this assimilation wouldn't be possible, that's why it was necessary to create an independent state for the Jews outside of Europe. Haskalah and Zionism are two complete opposites. Somebody please revert that edit.--190.31.12.71 (talk) 15:00, 24 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree. This source explains it elegantly: Zionism. Onceinawhile (talk) 15:20, 24 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The Zionist movement is a consequence of the Haskalah movement, but i agree that 'Zionism' is the appropriate link for "national awakening". Infantom (talk) 16:06, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 17:09, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Notification of Arbitration Enforcement
A request related to edit-warring on this article has been filed at Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 17:53, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' noticeboard
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding edit warring on this article. The thread is User:Avaya1 disruptive editing. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 08:29, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

GDP rankings
User:Avaya1, I added back GDP rankings that were removed by you again. Although the target lists are updating slower than infoboxes, they are still linked to in virtually every country's article, even if dates differ a year. Because it's informative, and the rankings are very similar in each update. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 14:14, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 October 2017
196.65.221.67 (talk) 11:48, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:06, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 October 2017
I request that the essence of the following paragraphs be included in an appropriate location.

The Future of Israel, Inevitably, One State

The current projections of birth rates in Israel among the Arab and Jewish populations indicate that the Arabs have lost their strongest ultimate weapon in their war against Israel, the Population Bomb. Data shows that the Palestinian Authority records residents that emigrated in the last decades as still included in the population figures. The Jewish population exceeds the Arab population significantly in all of Mandatory Israel plus the Golan and minus the Gaza Strip. In addition, The Jewish birth rate is now higher than the Arab birth rate resulting in a continually increasing Jewish majority. When this becomes clear in the next several years it will end proposals of a two-state solution. It is inevitable. It is true that Israelis have an obligation to improve the economic, social and political condition of the Arab population. Arab communities must receive a much larger share of the National budget to improve their living conditions. Discrimination must end. All citizens of the State of Israel, whether Jewish or Arab, Christian, Moslem, or Jew, must have the same rights and privileges. The Palestinian Authority will be superfluous and must be dissolved. The education of all Israeli children must include certain elements now missing in many schools: Hebrew and Arabic instruction, a history of the last century that is mutually agreed to by Arab and Jew, etc. Avramk18 (talk) 16:28, 21 October 2017 (UTC)Avram Kalisky avram@alum.mit.edu


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:33, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Do we need to keep this soapbox at the talk page ? &#8220;WarKosign&#8221; 17:46, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * We should retain it (at least until the author sees the response), but I've collapsed it. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:50, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2017
Ok. This edit is obviously problematic. Russian is not an official language in Israel. It should be removed from infobox and the first sentence in lead. I guess the only thing we could left alone is "Inter-ethnic languages"?--186.125.2.143 (talk) 03:19, 25 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I had already deleted it before I saw your message. Thank you, though. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:50, 25 October 2017 (UTC)


 * It was added by Wrestlingring, who adds crap to this article regularly. He is a sockpuppeteer, see Sockpuppet investigations/Wrestlingring. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 05:17, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

"This article is about the modern country. For other uses..."
For an article about a modern country, there sure is a lot about the not-modern.PiCo (talk) 21:23, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * One of 6 major sections is dedicated to the country's history. The full article History of Israel is far longer, about as long as this one. &#8220;WarKosign&#8221; 07:10, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 November 2017
Chief Justice: change "Miriam Naor" to "Esther Hayut" 77.126.115.47 (talk) 21:20, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done &thinsp;&mdash; Ammarpad (talk) 21:44, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 September 2017
I know it's a controversial issue, but someone should decide between keeping Shmuel Yosef Agnon or Amos Oz. Because, as it is now, one of the two images overlaps with the section below, which is completely unrelated to literature. On the one hand, Agnon won the nobel prize. On the other hand, I think Amos Oz is more known internationally (his books were translated to many different languages), although his political opinions don't represent most Israelis. Since this is about literature rather than politics, I guess Amos should be the image staying. But I could be wrong, since Shmuel Agnon won the nobel after all. What do you guys think? In any case, one of the two images has to go. It ruins the format. Maybe we should put it to vote?--DarkKing Rayleigh (talk) 04:42, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Putting my money where my mouth is, my 50 shekels are for Agnon who got his own cash note. Some of Oz's contemporary peers may challenge him. I would probably place Nathan Alterman or Leah Goldberg before Oz, if going for 2 images (both for significance, and for different sphere of content).Icewhiz (talk) 06:33, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Why not move both images slightly up, into the Culture section? Literature is part of culture, so the images won't be misplaced there.&#8220;WarKosign&#8221; 07:18, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Because it would be ugly and still overloaded. We don't need two portraits. Both authors mentioned in the text already. Wikipedia is WP:NOTGALLERY.--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 17:08, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Agnon. The only argument in favor of Oz I've seen is that he is the most translated Israeli author. But Agnon is not far behind, his works has been translated into tens of languages as well. The specific number of languages is nonessential difference that can be attributed to the fact that Oz is more recent author, in the world that is more globalized. Agnon is venerated more than Oz inside Israel, anyway. What is more significant is that Agnon, unlike Oz, featured on Israeli banknotes and won Nobel. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 17:08, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, it seems nobody else cares. Please remove the Amos Oz picture. If someone objects, they will come here. That extra image is messing up the esthetic of the whole section. It has to go. Amos is mentioned in article anyway.--DarkKing Rayleigh (talk) 03:17, 14 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 02:40, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Amos should be included, as we have a consensus for. As I see it, the editor removing him is Triggerhippie4 (talk), who continuously forces this edit even with no-one else or at best (like here) a minority supporting him. Talk:Israel/Archive_57Avaya1 (talk) 20:43, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Nathan Alterman or Leah Goldberg should be in before Oz. More significant, and different subject area.Icewhiz (talk) 20:47, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There's two other editors here in support and no oppose. Old discussion is outdated and lack arguments. Seems like they just wanted warring to stop without looking into it.--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 20:51, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm actually appalled at Avaya1's behavior. He claims I'm "continuously forcing" this, while, as you can see, it's DarkKing Rayleigh who opened this proposal. And he claims a "minority supporting" me here when, besides me, there was two in support, one neutral and no oppose.--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 21:17, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * At the time of your edits, there was one editor supporting you. We have a large consensus not to remove the image Talk:Israel/Archive_57. And Triggerhippie4 you spent hours stalking my edits in a somewhat sad way. There is no consensus yet for changing the images. Can someone restore status quo until a consensus is formed? Avaya1 (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Avaya1, Consensus was established on 14 September, with three was for removal, one neutral and no oppose. My first edit was on the next day, . Two weeks passed since then, there's nothing to wait for. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 04:12, 28 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I have nothing to say about the relative inclusion-worthiness of these two authors, but I observe that Israeli literature has room for a picture or two, so suggest inclusion there as a ‘consolation prize’ for any that are removed from here.—Odysseus 1 4 7  9  21:43, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

So there's still no consensus on not including Oz, but Triggerhippie4 has removed it? Avaya1 (talk) 16:09, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No one except you wants to include Oz. And stop perfectly fine image because you don't like it. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 18:29, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request Link To 1990s Post-Soviet aliyah
The caption below the immigration chart, or the paragraph to its left, should explain the 1990 peak. I propose changing it to read:

Immigration to Israel in the years 1948–2015. The two peaks were in 1949 (Statehood) and 1990 (Post-Soviet aliyah).

Although the Aliyah is mentioned on the page, it is in a far different section.

Mrflip (talk) 00:39, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Mrflip (talk) 02:11, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done The two peaks are already labeled and the history is already covered. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 04:16, 10 November 2017 (UTC)