Talk:Israeli citizenship law

Typo
Someone with editing rights should fix a typo, "conversative" should be "conservative." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.165.244 (talk) 18:15, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Horserice (talk) 21:45, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Israel's Knesset passes law barring Palestinian spouses
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-palestinian-spouses-2022-03-10/

This should be inserted in the "Spousal access to citizenship" section. --2A02:1810:BC04:4B00:88A9:1A3:54C4:BB4F (talk) 16:10, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

3rd paragraph of intro
the 3rd paragaraph of the intro states that non jews, esp palestinians, may have trouble getting citizenship this seems to understate how hard it is for palestinians to get citizenship, eg a palestinian MARRIED to an Israeli citizen cant get citizenship,iirc, the new law https://cyprus-mail.com/2022/03/10/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-palestinian-spouses/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:192:4700:1F70:78E5:69EA:DFD9:557B (talk) 13:56, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Omitting section
@Horserice: Why exactly are we omitting this section? That summary, in of itself, is not really a self-contained explanation. Aren't the rights and obligations of citizens pertinent here? Iskandar323 (talk) 08:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * It's probably my fault as I wondered whether it should be removed (here). It still think it's not worth being mentioned in the lede but because the "Terminology" section says citizenship refers to the set of rights and duties a person has in that nation then we may need a "Rights and duties" section. However, other citizenship articles I (quickly) checked didn't have such as section.
 * (Also, conscription is mandatory for all permanent residents of Israel, even non citizens. While Arab Muslims and Christians (but not Druze) aren't conscripted, even if citizens. So the link to citizenship isn't direct and obvious.) a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:07, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, if it's part and parcel of a review process, I leave it to participants. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Righteous Among the Nations
Can the article better explain that this is an honorific, and why. Otherwise, article looks very good. Well done again. Ceoil (talk) 01:47, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Marking this page as POV

 * The lede should specifically describe the case of Palestinians. Grouping them in the "non-Jews" is POV in this context since they form such a large fraction of the "non-Jews" and this language is often used to erase the history of Palestinians in the region.
 * Added specific mention.


 * The reference to the 1948 refugees as a "hostile population" is certainly POV.
 * Changed wording to clarify that the Israeli government viewed them as hostile. I would anyways dispute this as being POV since the two sides had just fought a war. It would be merely descriptive to say that the post-WWII German people were a hostile population to the Allied occupation force.


 * Describing the exclusion of refugees from returning as "justified" is also POV. We should not be trying to justify actions of states.
 * Changed wording on this to clarify that it was the Israeli government justifying this action.


 * "While Jordan lost control of the West Bank to Israel" is awkwardly avoiding saying that Israel took over the West Bank.
 * The subject of that sentence is Jordan, but if flipping that makes it less controversial to you, I've changed it.


 * The "Qualification under right of return" section makes no mention of the Palestinian population which is not allowed to return under the Law of Return.
 * A Palestinian right of return is already briefly mentioned in the "Status of Palestinian Arabs" section. I don't think that a specific mention of the Palestinian population belongs in the section on qualification since they do not meet the basic requirement under Israeli law of being Jewish or descended from Jews. There is already a full article on the Palestinian right of return and further discussion belongs there.


 * Referring to Palestinians living in the West Bank awkwardly as "resident in the Judea and Samaria Area (administrative division for the West Bank under Israeli law) outside of Israeli settlements" is glaringly POV.
 * I mean... this just reflects how that law was written. The actual text of the Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law refers to the West Bank as the Judea and Samaria Area. Since this article is about Israeli law, it makes sense to reference that legislation.

So I am adding the POV tag DMH43 (talk) 16:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * pinging FAC reviewers in case any of you want to chime in. Horserice (talk) 22:50, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm no expert on the topic, but Horserice's replies (and edits in response to the comments) seem reasonable to me. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:57, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree with Mike Christie. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:29, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 January 2024
Hi. It currently says

"Palestinians resident in the West Bank and Gaza Strip regions of the former mandate largely remain stateless." But there is no source for this information. That is because it is untrue. The Palestinians living in the West Bank fall under the authority of the Palestinian Authority which issues it's own passports. As seen here (https://palestinianaffairs.state.gov/message-to-u-s-citizens-u-s-citizens-with-a-palestinian-authority-pa-id-passport-can-apply-for-permits-for-short-term-visits-to-israel/) these are considered valid identification and travel documents by the US. Please remove the quoted section since it is untrue. Thanks and have a nice day. 1Rudster (talk) 02:18, 29 January 2024 (UTC)


 * agreed this isnt properly sourced or explained. Instead we should say something like:
 * However, the same laws that privilege Jews exclude Palestinians who were forced to flee their homes in 1947-1952, stripping them of their former status and denying the internationally-recognized Palestinian right of return
 * DMH43 (talk) 17:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't believe a call out on a Palestinian right of return belongs in the lead. While this issue is important, I will stress again that this article is about Israeli law and there is already a full article on the Palestinian right of return. There is also already a paragraph in this article that specifically discusses the systemic exclusion of Arabs from Israel at the time of the country's establishment. Horserice (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * To respond directly to your point about passports, holding a travel document is not the same as having a state: "Moreover, since the Palestinian Authority does not have sovereignty over any territory, such passports cannot confer citizenship on their holders." DMH43 (talk) 17:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Elaborated on statelessness in the Status of Palestinian Arabs section. Information in the lead does not necessarily need to be cited there per MOS:LEADCITE. Changed lead to specifically call out status of pre-1948 Palestinians who remained resident in Israel. Horserice (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * i think this rephrasing is appropriate, thanks DMH43 (talk) 22:43, 29 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Closing per discussion. Goldsztajn (talk) 03:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Explanation for "broadly" and "expansive" in Terminology section
"In the Israeli context, nationality is not linked to a person's origin from a particular territory but is more broadly defined. Although the term may be used in other countries to indicate a person's ethnic group, the meaning in Israeli law is particularly expansive by including any person practicing Judaism and their descendants."

Can someone explain why this is described as "broadly defined" and "particularly expansive"? Is this language used in the sources? On reading this description, neither characterization seems appropriate since the definition of nationality in this context seems exclusionary rather than "broad" and "expansive". DMH223344 (talk) 17:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC)