Talk:It's On (Dr. Dre) 187um Killa

No unicode characters
CyberSkull has reverted to the No unicode character template a anumber of times, most recently commenting "no unicode character (strikethru is a font style, not a chraracter)". This is exactly true—so why do we want to claim that one or more of the characters in the title are not in Unicode? This is analogous to a title with one word in red, or bold. It has nothing to do with a problematic character. This just makes Wikipedia look like we don't understand what Unicode is. (By the way, if you want to get exceedingly technical, the title doesn't say Dr. Dre anyway—the album cover clearly shows those words with an X through them, not a strike-through.)

Having this warning on 386MAX makes even less sense. First of all, there are in fact superscript characters in Unicode, for compatability with old character sets. And second of all, this is again an issue of mere formatting, not missing characaters. Would you claim the same thing for LaTeX? There are dozens of such titles in Wikipedia with raised or lowered characters. —johndburger 15:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I choose the tag in question because it best fits the situation. There are no characters that match the given text. A font style must be applied. All article titles are plain text. The only characters that can be represented by superscript characters in unicode are numbers. 386MAX uses a superscript style because there are no superscript letters in unicode. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 09:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Again I ask, exactly which character or symbol in the title of this article is "not found in Unicode"? I think the above shows quite a misunderstanding of both Unicode, and the template. Unicode encodes abstract characters, and I believe the template is meant to suggest that some element of the title could in principle be an element of Unicode, but is not, at present. The symbols in the Zoso album are a good example. "There are no superscript letters in unicode" because superscript letters are not characters! The strikethrough and the superscripts are indeed font style issues as you say, nothing to do with Unicode one way or the other. Using your reasoning, you should put the template on your own user page, because the bright red C and the dark red l are "not found in Unicode". Mis-using the template advertises to the world that WIkipedia does not get this fundamental idea. I suggest spending some time with the Unicode Standard, perhaps reading the definition of character. —johndburger 12:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Unicode strikethrough
There is a really dodgy way of displaying the title (almost) correctly with unicode:

It's On (D&#x0336;r&#x0336;.&#x0336; &#x0336;D&#x0336;r&#x0336;e&#x0336;) 187um Killa

On my display the strikethough on the 'D' doesn't extend far enough to the left but after looking at the Unicode code chart that may be an error in the font.

About the title
Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but I changed the no unicode character tag to wrongtitle because the issue here is not a Unicode thing. There are two potential technical limitations on this title that I see:


 * 1) "Dr.DRE" is crossed out
 * 2) "187um" appears as "187um"

Both of these are font style things. I think that the first one actually contributes to the meaning of the title; that is, the fact that "Dr. Dre" is crossed out means something different than if it weren't crossed out. I'm not so sure that the fact that "um" is in superscript means anything, but I may just be ignorant of that meaning.

Issue #1 merits the use of the wrongtitle template because there isn't a template in Category:Wrong title templates to address the strikethrough issue. Issue #2 merits the use of the downsize template. Since #1 is a definite issue, I think that wrongtitle should be used because it covers the general case of an incorrect title. Using downsize would be confusing since it would mean disregarding that #1 is also a problem.

Obviously album covers use all sorts of fonts and handwritten, sometimes scrawled, words. These things are usually only considered worthy of wrongtitle and friends if they are actually meaningful and genuine. The strikethrough issue pretty obviously falls into this category for me, while the superscript issue is marginal. That being said, I don't have a problem with the title argument to wrongtitle being changed to "It's On ( Dr. Dre ) 187um Killa" if there is concensus to do so. Mike Dillon 03:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It seems to me that you're completely right. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 17:10, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The strikethrough and superscript are examples of stylized typography, which the MOS forbids, or at least leans heavily against. 81.104.175.145 21:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the superscript is bogus. It's handwritten, how can you argue that it's a superscript?  I think the s in It's is arguably smaller and raised.  Does that mean we should say the real name of the recording is  It's On ( Dr. Dre ) 187um Killa???  I don't think so.  I reverted a recent edit accordingly.  If someone finds a reference that says what the name is, of course, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.  —johndburger 04:15, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * All of the arguments presented here are matters of stylised typography, and while they are not in every case explicitly and absolutely forbidden, they are extremely discouraged, especially in the instance of creative works, seeing as these issues run rampant in music, books, and art. The issues most commonly arise in foreign titles, especially those of Japanese bands, however they do occasionally spill out into these types of releases. I would say this is flying under the radar right now, because it's not attached to an article about a living person, is of very limited interest, and is an EP, rather than an album. I will bring the article up for discussion at WP:ALBUMS soon. --Jacob Talk 19:45, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Title again
I don't get it, what does the title mean? Particularly "186um Killa"? Thanks. Maikel (talk) 02:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * turns out it means "untouchable murder"
 * and man, i had to DIG to find that nut
 * here is a source: https://www.ocweekly.com/the-truth-behind-ice-cubes-legendary-brawl-with-above-the-law-7490822/ 161.55.204.3 (talk) 05:30, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Requested move
It's On ( Dr. Dre ) 187um Killa → It's On (Dr. Dre) 187um Killa — This spelling of the album is a terribly unjustified ignorance of WP:MOSTM. No source that can be found spells the album with a strikethrough and superscript, so there's no need copy the style used only on the album cover. Even with these stylistic adjustments, it's still a poor imitation of the album cover at best, and putting a strikethrough in the name really doesn't help convey any meaning which could be explained in the article. — Xnux   the   Echidna  23:15, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

187 is code for murder — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.93.8 (talk) 04:25, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:MOS-TM and to reunite talk page with article. Dekimasu よ! 04:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

meaning of 187um accordin 2 me
cold 187um claims to hv started the g-funk sound n was producing 4 eazy-e n claimed that dre didnt give him enough credit on his chronic album. so prob eazy e crossed out dres name n put 187um's name. source = g-funk page on wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.69.185 (talk) 11:16, 15 February 2011 (UTC) 187 means murder

Underline
The "um" in "187um Killa" is underlined twice, so I think it should be underlined here to show that. Eat me, I&#39;m a red bean (t • c) 00:25, 3 September 2015 (UTC)