Talk:Italian North Africa

Italian North Africa
Italian North Africa is cited many times in Italian history books as Africa Settentrionale Italiana (as can be found even in Italian wikipedia: Africa settentrionale italiana), and is related to the Italian East Africa named in Italian as Africa orientale italiana.

I want to pinpoint that: (1)Italian Libya is related to Libya when was part of the Italian empire as a united country formed by Tripolitania-Cyrenaica-Fezzan, from 1934 to 1943. (2) Colonial Libya is related the conquest and colonization of what was then Tripolitania -Cyrenaica and the Libyan Sahara, from 1911 to 1934. (3) Fourth Shore is related to the coast of Italian Libya that was united to the Kingdom of Italy in 1938. (4)Italian North Africa is related to Italian Libya PLUS Tunisia occupied by Italy in November 1942 PLUS territories of western Egypt occupied temporarily by Italy during WWII....B.D.


 * And all of these are essentially coterminous with the history of Italian presence in what today is Libya. There is no need to have a different article for every term that could potentially be used for the colony. As for Africa Settentrionale Italiana, the term is used in a descriptive sense only from what I can see, not as an official designation, unlike the AOI. As for Tunisia being part of this ASI, I'd like to see a source that any part of Tunisia was annexed to the Italian colonial empire and administered as such. Wikipedia is not the place for inventing new terms or definitions. To me it seems that "Italian North Africa" is supposed to be an umbrella term for "Italian North African possessions". This is redundant because these possessions for most of the thirty-odd year period boiled down to Libya, the short-lived military occupations of a border strip of Egypt and of Tunisia do not really qualify as colonial possessions. It is pointless to make a distinction, or invent a new term on that basis. Otherwise we might as well, and with far better reason, have an article on "American Western Europe" due to the military occupation of much of W. Europe by the Americans. Constantine  ✍  17:39, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Tunisia remained for six months the last de facto Italian administered territory in north Africa until all Tunisia fell to American and British forces. Not only this, but with the Italians of Tunisia were created military units with the label "Africa Settentrionale Italiana"...I am searching books about these units and I'll post information about. BD
 * I have added data in the article about the Reggimento Volontari Tunisini dell'Africa Settentrionale Italiana........
 * "if it is on the italian wiki, why cannot be here in the en.wiki? " is not an argument, especially since the Italian page was created after and on the basis of the enwiki analogue. For this article to stand, you need to prove that the term "Italian North Africa" actually had a concrete usage, and that this usage conforms to what this article pretends, i.e. to group together all the Italian territories in N. Africa, whether in actual contemporary administrative or at least in modern historiographical usage. This has yet to be done by you, and my own searches in GBooks have revealed no such usage except in the descriptive form. Constantine  ✍  11:01, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok. Then I suggest you to check information about "Reggimento Volontari Tunisini dell'Africa Settentrionale Italiana", for example. In Italian books of those years you'll find the historiographical (and administrative) usage. Of course they are "fascist" books that used to make propaganda for the regime, but THEY EXIST HISTORICALLY. And Wikipedia must include -as an encyclopedia- even those writings..... of course if you don't agree, feel free to do as you want.BD

I am adding on bibliography the reference: Ezio Gray, Le terre nostre ritornano... Malta, Corsica, Nizza, Novara, De Agostini, 1943. This book contains clear and explicit references to "Africa Settentrionale Italiana" as an administrative entity made of Italian Libya and Tunisia from December 1942 to February 1943 when Tripolitania was conquered totally by the Allies. BD


 * One source, and one source coming from the very end of the period is not nearly enough. You need to show common, widespread and consistent usage. If it was indeed an administrative entity, then there should be more than propaganda material around, there should be government papers, journals, etc. If it is a historiographical term, again, there should be at least a handful of authors using it. Otherwise it remains a neologism. Constantine  ✍  07:29, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I strongly concur with Constantine's reasoning above. In order to justify having a separate article, we need multiple accounts in reliable sources demonstrating widespread usage of the term "Italian North Africa" to refer to the territory. Moreover, attempting to justify the usage of the term by what Foreign Affairs calls "A popular account of the italianità of Malta, Corsica, Nizza" from the year 1940 is borderline WP:OR. signed,Rosguill talk 17:41, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
 * In order to demonstrate CONSISTENT and WIDESPREAD USAGE: only in google there are 42 references to "Italian north africa" and in italian google there are 261 references to "Africa settentrionale italiana"......and there it is a book in Italian edited by Mondadori that is titled "Africa Settentrionale Italiana"....what we want? And also we must pinpoint that a "borderline" book edited in 1940 is to be accepted in an encyclopedia, let's remember this simple rule of impartiality! Indeed there are many articles in Wikipedia that have one single reference and are not erased/merged like this article.... B. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.87.134 (talk) 13:44, 7 December 2018 (UTC)