Talk:Italian campaign (World War II)/2004-2006

Misc
I LOVE FRANNY AND REE REE

I'll start work on this page after I finish the article on the North African Campaign, which I'll start after I finish the Second Italo-Abysinnian War. Each kind of leads into the other. Oberiko 14:11, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

There are detailed articles at Allied invasion of Italy and other places I've not put in as links.

Incidentally, do yo think we should rename this Italian campaign of World War II? There were Italian campaigns by Napoleon and at the end of the nineteenth century. DJ Clayworth 17:26, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * If there are other Italian Campaigns, then I'll for renaming this article. Oberiko 18:18, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * I would also like to see some mentioning of Ortona. There is a page on Ortona, Battle of Ortona I believe is the link, it could simply link to it... that would be awesome.  Speaking as a Canadian here, but also because Ortona really does a good job of portraying some of the brutal fighting in Italy, and was also a very important battle in terms of morale for both sides. -- The Patmeister

I moved Italian Campaign to Italian Campaign (World War II). I thought it would be more appropiate. I hope that's ok. SoLando 4 July 2005 00:33 (UTC)

Sicily date
Didn't the invasion of Sicily start on July 9, 1943? That's the date according to my History 12 Textbook. Also, if you go to the July 9, 1943 link on this site, it says the invasion started then, not on the 10 of July. Just wondering...

annonymous Grade 12 Student from W.J. Mouat Secondary Abbotsford, BC Canada

Minor Edit

 * Added link to wiki(pedia) page on Operation Husky -- as Operation Husky is what the (Allied) Invasion of Italy was called.
 * (source: Call of Duty 2: Big Red One, Archival Footage - provided by the Military Channel)
 * -Jacnoc (Discuss 21:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That is just slightly confusing, since Husky was the invasion of Sicily only. The invasions of the mainland each had their own operational names, as described later in the article. The article should definitely begin with the Husky background though. DMorpheus 21:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Why is the Italian Front a redirect here and not to the Italian Campaign disambiguation page? (I asked that question on the other talk page as well, but realised that it may be hard to find) --84.0.230.228 09:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The disintegration of the Italian Army after the royal surrender.
After the unconditional surrender of the Kingdom of Italy (September 8, 1943) the Italian Army in North and in the Middle of the country vanished. Both in Italy and abroad this behaviour was always object of sharp criticism. Of course there were exceptions like the brave defence of Rome (Porta San Paolo)---led by the division "Granatieri di Sardegna" (September 9) which caused the death of 414 Italian soldiers and of 156 civilians--- but they were exceptions. However the alternative for the Italian Army was to fight the former German allies. The fact that 180,000 Italian soldiers joined the Germans and the rest went home -because they didn`t want to fight against Germany- shows that the Italians -as people- weren`t traitors. The topic is debated: no matter the Italians did at that time, they could be criticized. In any case: when they went home, they were "cowards"; when they fouhght for the king, they were "traitors": when they fought for the RSI, they were "dirty fascists"!

The importance of the Italian surrender.
The Royal Italian Army played an important role in WWII keeping under control big territories: South-East France (4th Army = 60,000 men), West-Croatia (2nd Army = 138,000 men), Montenegro and Albania (9th Army = 172,000 men), Greece (11th Army = 243,000 men). The Italian collapse forced Germany to use "precious" forces just to take over the occupation of those territories. A still undevalued aspect of the Italian surrender.

THE UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER OF  ITALY
The formal (definitive) unconditional surrender of the Kingdom of Italy was signed by Eisenhower and Marshal Badoglio on the British battleship "Nelson" in front of Malta on September 29, 1943. The surrender of September 3 was more "provisional". Even on September 8 it was`t sure that the Italian government were ready to announce the surrender: this did happen after a turbulent conference in the royal Palace of Rome (general Giacomo carboni wanted to carry on the war but the fear of an huge US-bombing "convinced" the Italian government to surrender). This conference recalls a bit the situation in Tokyo in 1945 but it is rather unknown abroad. Yes, this is true: the surrender hindered the attack on New York City which the Italian Navy were organizing. The idea was to attack (in December 1943)the skyscrapers by commandos landed by midged submarines. Sources: Guido Bonvicini and "Corriere della Sera" (2001).

Canadian Involvement in Italy
I'd certainly like to see more in this article about Canadian involvement in the Italian Campaign, specifically in Sicily and Ortona.