Talk:Ithaca (island)/Archive 1

Measurement unit
Hey, thie article says Ithaca is "95 jfdgkg around." That, um, doesn't amke much sense; it's like saying something weighs 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Someone should get on that. --Fishal 20:23, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Some quick research confirmed the area is really 95-96 km², [[User:Sverdrup|❝Sverdrup❞ ]] 07:57, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"Symbolicated" Ithaca
I was told by Leonard Muellner at Brandeis University when I was a student there (around 2000) that the Ithaca of the Iliad and the Odyssey is not a real place, and that Odysseus is supposed to symbolically come from all of Greece, not one specific, actual location. He claimed that the identification of a modern locale as "Ithaca" is a later invention. Has anyone else heard this story? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.109.230.177 (talk • contribs) 01:01, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

it seems that the professor didn't have a clue, archaiological escavations have prove that most of the persons were real including Odysseus —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.92.162.78 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Archaeological evidence has not been conclusive as to whether many of the stories concerning Ithaca are true or not, there is much debate on the matter as it is unusual for an island of Ithaca's size to have generated such interest in ancient text. One thing that is guarenteed is that no professor truly knows the truth as the evidence is not sufficient enough for either arguement. -Timos —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.148.5.118 (talk • contribs) 02:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect Timos, but "it is unusual for an island of Ithaca's size to have generated such interest in ancient text" sounds a bit strange to me. There have been smaller places with major impacts in myths and legends. (Stonehenge comes to mind.) In any case, whether modern Ithaca is Homer's Ithaca will very probably never be known for sure. Not until the archaeologists dig up something stunning. Rien Post 12:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Etymology of Ithaca
I think that the word 'Ithace" is derived by the name of Aethices, a people lived in Middle Greece.

--IonnKorr 20:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

"Sunset views"
Makote@aol.com: Your section just added to the article about "sunset views" belongs here in discussion, I believe: you make an interesting point and it deserves debate, but I think your posting is a "discussion" point instead, so would you please remove it from the article so that we may discuss it here? You said:


 * "One of the main points of the book attempts to suggest that Ithaki has no sunset views. What is left out is that the northern part of Ithaki has a much higher elevation than Kefalonia and comforms to the Homeric description as it overlooks the Palaki section and does indeed have a western view. As for low lying, this is a comparitive since the Ionian chain is a group of mountainous islands and Ithaki is in fact the "lowest" of the Ionians. Outis Ziyapanda - King of Ithaki : makote@aol.com"

The book by Bittlestone et al. goes into some detail about the exact meaning of the Homeric text. There is more to it, I believe, than simply the suggestion "that Ithaki has no sunset views". Professor Diggle devotes his entire Appendix 1, there, to a multi-faceted explanation of how he arrived at the particular translations and interpretations which they used: for example on page 520 he renders the most famous Homeric line about Ithaca's location as, in English,


 * "Ithaca itself lies low, furthest to sea
 * Towards dusk; the rest, apart, face dawn and sun."

-- and Diggle explains, "the directions 'towards dusk... dawn and sun' refer to west and east". And Homer says Ithaca is "furthest to sea", of the various islands there.

The point being made, then, by Diggle and by the Odysseus Unbound team and by Homer, is not "that Ithaki has no sunset views" -- nearly any island does, just as you suggest -- but that, compared to the others including modern Ithaki island, the Paliki peninsula of Kefalonia is located furthest west.

On that same page Diggle offers an explanation for "low-lying", as well: that the Greek term chthamale means "near the ground", in Homer: he offers several examples of this usage, taken from both the Iliad and the Odyssey. Homer does compare his "Ithaca" to the rest of Ionia, in saying "Ithaca itself lies low": but the comparison is of the Paliki peninsula, to the rest of Ionia, not of Kefalonia as a whole -- modern Kefalonia certainly is not the "lowest-lying", compared to modern Ithaki -- but Paliki alone, in the time of Homer and Odysseus separated from Kefalonia by "Strabo's Passage", would have been.

--Kessler 20:14, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
PageName → NewName – The current Ithaca page is a redirect to the US suburb, but is linked to only in the context of the island. Ithaca, Greece double-redirects to Ithaca, New York, for example. Aside from the obvious literary points, the Greek Ithaca is a whole geographical formation.

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~


 * Support. The Odyssey isn't even the only reference to this. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 21:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose I would prefer this article to be at Ithaca, Greece; leaving Ithaca, for now, as a redirect here, and eventually a separate, and hopefully less argumentative, article on the Homeric question. Was it Lang who supported Corfu? Septentrionalis 23:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. While most of the current links to Ithaca are for the one in Greece, that is likely the result of everyone else dabing the link correctly over time or someone not doing this work after changing the redirect.  The solution here is, as suggested above, to move Ithaca (Odyssey) to Ithaca, Greece and move Ithaca (disambiguation) to Ithaca.  Vegaswikian 00:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Suport. However, I moved the article to Ithaca (island) for the time being. The association with Odysseus is important but not the most prominent characteristic of the island. Also, imho in most cases the title should refer to the original place with this name, such as London etc.   A n d r e a s    (T) 16:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I suggest it being  'Ithaca, Greece' , with  'Ithaca'  then disambiguating to the various meanings (the actual island, the Homeric island, New York, the various other towns called 'Ithaca', etc).  Notwithstanding my opposition, it certainly shouldn't be  'Ithaca, Odyssey' . Bastin 17:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Shouldn't this proposal be closed by now? I agree that the best title is Ithaca, Greece. I'm trying to make the Homeric stuff a bit more encyclopedic, but there is a more extensive article at Homer's Ithaca, with an even more specialized article at Odysseus Unbound. Whatever this article about Ithaca ends up being called, it needs more non-Homeric information... --Akhilleus (talk) 04:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments
 * No consensus, besides that, Itheca is used for various names, so I think that page better should become an disambig page. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 02:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Ithaca, NY
Ithaca is also known place in USA, NY. Cornell University is located there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca%2C_New_York 83.81.205.116 (talk) 21:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Ithaca: Cadiz
Homer describes Ithaca as "amphialos" which means: "with a sea on each side"; A perfect description for a place between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic.

Also, the situation described by Homer perfectly matches with how this region was 3200 years ago: the Guadalete delta not yet turned into land and Ithaca being the most westerly situated island but yet closest to the mainland. You can find a map on page 137 of Iman Wilkens latest book; the 2005 edition.

Furthermore, there are other places in the region that sound Homeric: Gerena (pronounced Gerenia) (Nestor!) Pylos, now Pilas, Sparta, now Esparteros mountain, Sidon, now Medina Sidonia.

212.123.163.102 07:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

abru?
- the Greek adjective "ithys" which means abru

Unless I need to learn a new word, there is a mistake here. There is no such word as "abru", nor should it be linked to a non-existant page. Should this be "abrupt"? Sorry, I can't easily check this. Or is there an on-line ancient Greek dictionary? 89.49.246.225 22:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

This comment seems to refer to a phrase that's no longer in the article; but just in case: "ithys" in Homer means straight or direct (Liddell & Scott, intermediate Greek-English Lexicon). With the preposition "an[a]" it yields (via a noun derived from the adjective?) a phrase that means "straight upward." Grisunge (talk) 13:36, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Geography
A sentence in the Geography sections begins: "The capes in the island include Exogi, the westernmost but not in land, Melissa to the north...." I don't understand what the phrase "the westernmost but not in land" means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.111.123.49 (talk) 03:00, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

According to this (old) article, the original site of Ithaca was found using GPS fieldwork and satellite imagery. Unfortunately the old article does not say where it is, but refer to a book (which I do not have). 213.197.253.49 (talk) 08:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Map for the Color Blind
Being partially color blind, I had trouble locating Ithaca in the first map of Greece on the article page. Out of respect for the color blind community, may someone find a map of Greece with non-contrasting colors (such as red and green)? This is my first disccussion section, so I apologize beforehand for any violations.

Thank you.

SciGuy013 (talk) 04:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Lies
This article is full of lies, no doubt spread to garner tourist interest in Ithaki. Kephalonia, not Ithaki, was Homer's Ithaka (Homer himself has Odysseus say that he came from an island with a fir covered mountain, which many academics take to mean Mt Aenos on Kephalonia). No doubt people have lived on both islands since at least the Upper Paleolithic, but there are no major ruins that date to the historical Illiad on Ithaki, but there certainly are on Kephalonia. Also, the statement of this article that the Corinthians neglected Ithaki (!?) is an outright deception. No, I have it from a respected scholar whom I will not name out of respect for him that when the Corinthians traded widley in the Gulf that they actually used Ithaki as their main port, transferring importance from Kephalonia to the smaller island, and the name as well, scholars theorize. Archaeologically, the two islands show much Corinthian, and later Attic, influnce.

As archeologists we have a duty to the truth, not to the schemes of corrupt governments and organizations to increase profits.

Furthermore, since very few sources are cited here I will be doing some editing. If you find actual ACADEMIC sources that support you, not propagandistic or nationalistic, feel free to undo my edits, but be sure to cite things. Also, even among academia there is debate around this subject, so I feel that a section dealing with the debate and citing both points of view should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.64.203.199 (talk) 13:21, 16 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Claiming that "Kephalonia, not Ithaki, was Homer's Ithaka" is kind of pointless. As you say yourself a few lines earlier, "even among academia there is debate around this subject" so we'll probably never know the truth. And moaning about "corrupt governments and organizations to increase profits" isn't much of an argument either. Finally, "a respected scholar whom I will not name out of respect for him" is a completely useless source. Kind regards,  Y intan  11:43, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

"Liberated"
In the history section, every time another nation takes Ithaca from France, the word "liberated" is used. This word seems terribly POV.99.67.181.8 (talk) 03:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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Geogrpahy
Please make sure you have correct info next time. ithaca is "the second" smallest island in the ionians - after paxoi, well, that's debated. if you use the regional unit it has an area of 117.82, bt the island itself is only 96. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HonorTheIsland (talk • contribs) 14:29, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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