Talk:Ivar Aasen-sambandet

I rewrote the article, based on info from Bergens Tidende, trying to make it NPOV. http://bt.no/kultur/article253723

http://bt.no/meninger/debatt/article248839

contrapuncti

That's history. Refer to "Einingsregister" for info on Ivar Aasen-sambandet: http://www3.brreg.no/oppslag/enhet/detalj.jsp?orgnr=982495938 Refer to the NORID whois-database for info on the domain. --FATagnus 16:34, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

This is a misunderstanding of NPOV; it's not to let whatever obscure meaning come trough, but staying true to the facts. This type of information, you're (contrapuncti) adding, does not belong in an article on IAaS (nor on any other org., such as political parties etc.). It just sullies the organization. Please respect this. --FATagnus 17:18, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Are you happy with the article as it is now? I wouldn't consider the opinions of Myrvoll and Torheim as "whatever obscure meaning", considering the positions they used to hold in the organization. contrapuncti

I'll have to reflect upon that; the article on IAaS being so short, the addition is somewhat too apparent. Myrvoll and Torheim are examples of an extraordinary failure of leadership. Just their names have become a burden. regards --FATagnus 18:14, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

For your information, Fatagnus is identical to Sergej Alexander Munkvold who claims to be the current leader of Ivar Aasen-sambandet. The postings from Fatagnus are by no means objective on this subject.

129.177.46.* is identical to Olav Torheim. VPN-ing his true provider, Televest I think. --FATagnus 21:02, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Registering the organization in Brønnøysund is based on formalities, not realities. Munkvolds registration of Ivar Aasen-sambandet in the Brønnøysundregister does not change the fact that Ivar Aasen-sambandet was legally abandoned in april 2004. The organization which Munkvold claims to represent is not continuing the old organization, but is in practice a new organization.

Your reasoning makes further comments unnecessary. Hurted ego and delirious indeed. --FATagnus 21:02, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Can any of you come up with _proof_ supporting your opinions? The only I've seen is Brønnøysund, which states that Munkvold is the leader of IAaS. My latest edit reflected this, I think, also including Myrvoll/Torheim's claim that the organization was abandoned. Statements such as "the fact is..." doesn't belong on Wikipedia, where competing views should be presented "fairly and symphatetically" (The_perfect_article) contrapuncti 09:58, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)

The law of the organization states that any change in the law demands notification 30 days before the general assambly. This was not done, it was abandoned after a motion from the floor. Just search the Web on those names, it should give you a hint --FATagnus 16:57, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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No laws were changed. The organization was just abondoned, and all the requirements in the abandonment paragraph were met.

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Yes, they were, they were terminated.--FATagnus 13:00, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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The laws of Ivar Aasen-sambandet also states that only the board of the organization can call for an annual meeting. The annual meeting of 17 april was held in accordance with the board meeting of 14 april 2004. The "annual meeting" that Sergej held was a pure fractional meeting and had no legitimacy.

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To Thinktank -- there is no 'fraction' in IAaS now, just some former members with their private opinions. Second, "taken over the organization" is not a neutral description, far from it. Third, the link to sambandet is not relevant for IAaS of today, and contain a lot of out-dated and misleading (as well as illegal!) information. All of your changes of Sept 23 17:xx are thus the contrary of neutral (as tou claim it to be).

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The link to www.sambandet.no _is_ indeed relevant. It contains hundreds of articles and information on the activities of Ivar Aasen-sambandet from the Myrvoll era. I guess that is your biggest problem, not the "out-dated information". www.ivaraasen.no does not containing anything else than contact information.

www.sambandet.no does not contain any "illegal information". This is nonsense.

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To Thinktank -- no wonder you come up with these far-fetched stories when you base your sense of reality on what you GUESS (your word) what others think. In fact, the sambandet pages contain misleading information as to the organization of IAaS, and offers membership in e.g. Høgnorskringen, an unauthorized act which must be considered illegal, and indeed breaking the rules pertaining to the "aphazel" web-housing at Start.no (you should read the rules there again). As for your addition claiming that the legal status of IAaS is in dispute, that is highly misleading. The cases in dispute do not pertain to IAaS as such, and has nothing to do in a brief article like this whatsoever, and especially not in the central position you put it. --User:Ei røyst i øydemarki

The information at www.sambandet.no was not misleading when it was entered. Perhaps some information should be updated, but failing to update home pages is no crime. "Illegal contents" on home pages should be a case for the police, not for wikipedia. And in fact, there is no illegal information.

User:Thinktank


 * Well, actually it is a crime to upheld such gravely misleading information, when the organizations in question have longe since made you aware of the situation. Misleading information has nothing to do in an encyclopaedia, at least not under the cover of being "neutral" information. --Ei røyst i øydemarki

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The current article of Wikipedia (which you are trying to delete and overwrite with your own version every 10th minute after I have recovered it) has explained all this. www.sambandet.no are presented as _former_ home pages of an abandoned organization. This cannot be misunderstood.

--Thintank

The only ones that have abandoned the organisation are you, Torheim, and your "colleague", or should we rather say - we abandoned you?--FATagnus 17:48, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I am not involved with Ivar Aasen-sambandet in any way -- in fact I had never heard of it before stumbling upon this editing dispute. But unless Thinktank is lying about the organizations legal status being disputed and www.sambandet.no being the former official homepage, I do not believe that information should be deleted. If you find it POV it, please NPOV it, without removing the information. Rasmus (talk) 23:51, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

He is deliberately lying. The only one disputing IAS's legal status is Thinktank. The pages at *.sambandet.no (its not even registered on Ivar Aasen-sambandet) give an impression of being the official home page of IAaS, the only institution that can represent IAS is of course the board and the general assembly. The pages contain misleading information, such as wrong account number, wrong e-mail address, wrong contact information etc.

Please refer to "(The Norwegian state) Register for Legal Entities", it lists current leader as well as official home page Registration in the Register for Legal Entities

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Munkvold alias Fatagnus, you cannot deny the fact that www.sambandet.no is the _former_ home page of Ivar Aasen-sambandet. I have never said that these were the current home pages. On the contrary, I have made it clear that these home pages now are the property Marøys tenestesamband.

Marøys tenestesamband has no right to publish any content belonging to Ivar Aasen-sambandet --FATagnus 21:52, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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The so-called "Ivar Aasen-sambandet" of 2004 has no rights to former property of the legally abandoned Ivar Aasen-sambandet of 1965. --Thintank Let us see about that ;)--FATagnus 17:48, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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The Register for Legal Entities cannot, and will not, judge on matters like these. They only deal with formal affairs. The Brønnøysund Registration is no proof that Munkvold was legally elected leader of the organization.

User:Thinktank

But you don't need any proof at all, do you? --FATagnus 21:06, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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The legal abandonment of Ivar Aasen-sambandet is well-documented. --Thintank

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The state of the Wikipedia article on IAS give the impression that IAS is a group of wild men, not serious in their work. This is not what we are aiming at! --FATagnus 00:17, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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You have already done your best to make that impression yourself, and keeping up this suppression of facts wont make it any better. User:Thinktank

Your twisted logic is superb, blaming others for your own faults; it's to hard to bear isn't it? You know very well why you were trown out, because you, with your "colleague", used large sums out of the organisation's funds for your own benefit. You can no longer make yourself heard within the organisation and its domains, that's why you are so excited with anger. You're turning to Wikipdedia because that's the last place you can do harm - as long as the operators stay at idle. --FATagnus 06:27, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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As you have said it yourself: "To Thinktank -- no wonder you come up with these far-fetched stories when you base your sense of reality on what you GUESS (your word) what others think." To this I can only agree. Making a guess about other people's thoughts can never be good enough for somebody who's actually able to read them ("that's why you are so excited with anger").

--Thintank

That's the best you've written so far, Torheim. By the way, is User:Thintank a fraction of User:Thinktank, or a fission of the same fraction (or both)?--FATagnus 20:01, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Keeping up this nonsense wont help you, Sergej.

It has helped me very well, Torheim, it has trown you out. The status of the organisation is not in dipsute, it's just you not wanting to accept it. And you are no longer part of the organisation--FATagnus 18:27, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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At least it's a good thing that you admit your writings are nonsense. But perhaps you should rather come up with some arguments, or should I say proof, instead of these meaningless slanderings? 'If you believe this organisation is different from the one you were a member in, then make your own article)'. This is an invalid argument. According to the rules of Wikipedia, opposing views should be presented 'fair and sympathetically', not in their separate pages. You have to accept that there were two general assemblies, one discontinuing the organization and one continuing it. And you have not come up with any proof that your general assembly was legal. Please return to the discussion when you got proof that your 'general assembly' of 24 april 2004 was legally held. --Thinktank

Where are your proof? Why don't you need any? You've already received papers that prove that the abandonment was illegal. You were not even able to do the registration in the Register for Legal Enteties correct, it surely shows your incompetence.--FATagnus 12:37, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

www.sambandet.no
The old home page of Ivar Aasen-sambandet at www.sambandet.no is finally taken down after demand. You obviously didn't have any right to publish it after all, Torheim--FATagnus 14:50, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is incorrect. www.sambandet.no has not been taken down, it has only been updated, reflecting the new situation after the abandonment of Ivar Aasen-sambandet and change of ownership to Marøys Tenestesamband. At the front page of www.sambandet.no you will be informed about all these issues (Please read the article "Leitar du etter Ivar Aasen-sambandet?"). Of course the current owner of www.sambandet.no, Lars Bjarne Marøy, has no intention of representing an organization that no longer exists.

It was sent to you a formal letter demanding you to take down the pages (and you had to! :) - not the domain - as well as to "abuse" at your web provider. This is certainly better then the site claiming to represent IAaS. --FATagnus 19:26, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Actually, the continuing presence of www.sambandet.no under the control of Marøys Tenestesamband is another proof that Sergej Munkvold is not legally representing Ivar Aasen-sambandet.

It just proves that you were the administrator of the domain and the site. You're loosing ground day by day, Torheim. You and your comrades just represent three individuals. --FATagnus 19:26, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sergej Alexander Munkvold has formerly claimed that sambandet.no was the property of Ivar Aasen-sambandet, calling the transfer of www.sambandet.no to Marøys Tenestesamband a "thievery".

Correct. --FATagnus 19:26, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Now he tries to make it a victory that Marøys tenestesamband actually has started to update these pages. Anybody mentioning twisted logic here? --Thinktank

I need no victories,just getting you out of the org.; and I succeeded. :) --FATagnus 19:26, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You surely need no logic or reasoning either. --Thinktank

Is there any way you two (or three) can come to a consensus about this? At least try to discuss factually, not just making personal attacks on eachother. contrapuncti 20:14, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

I have already suggested that - I daresay it didn't help much. And the checking up of facts goes for you, too, young man! Ei røyst i øydemarki 22:27, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * When I started this article I did so without knowing anything about the conflict and assuming that www.sambandet.no was undisputed. Then I stumbled over some writings in Bergens Tidende by both sides, and tried to take that into account. Now FATAgnus and Thinktank are continuing their fighting here, and I'm kind of lost as I've never been affiliated in any way with the Ivar Aasen Union.

There is no equal fractions, just a few individuals claiming the org. is abandoned. The article is however fine as it is now. --FATagnus


 * The current situation doesn't benefit neither høgnorsk nor Wikipedia! Both sides claim to have the facts on their side, without actually letting us know what these facts are all about. contrapuncti 23:00, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

I can't give you any better facts than the registration in "The Register for Legal Entities" (unfortunately there is no register for abandoned entities). This is what every organisation or enterprise uses as proof and reference --FATagnus