Talk:J'Accuse...!/Archive 1

Feb 2008
I plan on expanding on this topic in a 800 to 1200 word article.


 * Welcome, and be bold, the article needs you.
 * / Mats Halldin (talk) 15:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Text of the Letter
where is the letter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.125.73.24 (talk) 03:21, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Alfred Zola ?
What's this about "Alfred Zola" in the "Arguments" section, am I missing something? Wouldn't that be "Alfred Dreyfus"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.107.223 (talk) 06:05, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Needs "Examples" section
This article is missing a list of post-Dreyfus uses of the term. 76.231.191.217 (talk) 15:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I tried, but all I could come up with was editorials. I would prefer that the examples be editorials which have been written about.  76.231.191.217 (talk) 16:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I feel like "J'accuse" has entered the general lexicon. There are surely many many more examples of people using the term (I can think of a few movies and TV shows off the top of my head), but attempting to mention them all seems kind of silly. I feel the article would be improved by dropping the "Examples" section all together and making it clear that the term has entered general use. Nsfreeman (talk) 14:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Missing reference
Regarding the item "In 2008, the term was used against the genocide in Darfur." given under Subsequent use…, the reference provided for this is:

That link no longer resolves. It appears only the abstract and comments remain at http://www.chron.com/disp/commnts.mpl/editorial/outlook/5894017.html. I think this is sufficient to illustrate the usage – the linked article content is not pertinent to the encyclopedic article, so I'm changing it.--Rfsmit (talk) 18:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move to J'accuse. The oppose, nomination and all but one of the support positions below is based on assertion rather than objective evidence and so is of little value in concluding this (though the point about "letter" seeming a poor disambiguator is well taken). The pageview evidence provided favor the move and I have supplemented by searching Google Books and News (archive) myself and find overwhelming disparity there for a conclusion that this is the primary topic. I have also used those searches to survey how books about the subject capitalize the "A" and the lowercase usage is more common (though not overwhelmingly so), which jibes with the weight of preference below; that issue, and whether we should have the ellipsis, with or without the exclamation point, can be revisited in a subsequent discussion with that as the focus.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

J& → J'Accuse — Zola's letter is the single most famous thing known by the title "J'Accuse", and it is principally known by that name. As the primary usage, it ought to be at the common title without disambiguation. Also, a side point, the image in the article makes it clear the the unusual capital-A spelling is most correct. — Gavia immer (talk) 23:23, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * J'accuse → J'accuse (disambiguation)

Survey

 * Oppose. J'accuse (1919 film) is also quite notable, enough that it appears there is no primary topic. —   AjaxSmack   00:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I would support if the A weren't capitalised: just J'accuse will do. Srnec (talk) 03:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support moves. Neutral on the case of the "A". Zola's letter is the primary topic, with 8200 pageviews last month, compared to 1300 for the dab page and 1000 for both movies combined. Station1 (talk) 22:27, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support As primary topic. Unsure about the "A", however, what do most historians writing about the Dreyfus affair use? Also, would it be worth moving this to J'accuse...!, the title used on the French Wikipedia? 84.92.117.93 (talk) 20:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support (though probably without the capital A) - this article explains the origins of the very well-known phrase, which is surely easily the primary topic ahead of any obscure films. Also the unsatisfactory nature of the disambiguator (will "(letter)" help people realize that they've arrived at the article they're looking for? likely not) makes it imperative that the present article title be changed.--Kotniski (talk) 06:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Support.--Cúchullain t/ c 14:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

How is it pronounced?
Could a French speaker add to the beginning of the article how it's pronounced in English? Is it more like "zh-accyooz" or "zh-accyoo-zay"? Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you mean how it's pronounced in French ? The final "e" is not pronounced is what I can say, a common error from English speakers. The "u" in French isn't pronounced "iu" like in English. Aesma (talk) 18:06, 2 May 2014 (UTC)