Talk:Jäger Movement

Untitled
I wonder about the connection between Finland's state flag and the Jäger flag. Was the blue on white cross chosed in reverence of the Jägers, ...or what? :-)

http://www.mannerheim.fi/06_vsota/e_jaakar.htm says:
 * (The battallion was joined into the Finnish army in February 1918, and) was given their own flag in Libau. The blue and white flag, resembling that of the Finnish Guard, had a blue cross with the lion coat-of-arms in the middle, and Prussian-style eagle emblems in the corners.

-- Ruhrjung 13:20 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * Not entirely sure of where I found the info, but I'd say that the Finnish flag came into being in the late 19th century, and thus predate the Jäger flag. Quite possibly the jäger flag was instead inspired by the design that was agreed upon by the independence movement.Scoo 14:38, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Like Ruhrjung's quote says, its modeled after the Finnish Guard (Suomen Kaarti) flag, not the national flag. See here: http://www.eskoff.net/skaartje.htm, http://www.mannerheim.fi/13_erity/s_jaakl.htm 213.243.182.3 13:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The flag in question is indeed older than the "jääkärilippu" (jäger flag). Siniristilippu (blue cross flag) was used by finnish merchantile ships during the krim war 1854-1856. It was suggested as official flag for finnish grand dutchy at 1863 but the suggestion failed and it remained as half official flag of finnish ships. It passed as official flag in 1918 because the old finnish grand dutcy flag had dark red background and it was assosiated with the finnish civil war losing side and the bolsevik revolution.

The jäger flag gets its shape from older "suomenkaartinlippu" (finnish guard flag), its colors from the siniristilippu (blue cross flag) and it seal from the old "suomenruhtinaskunnan lippu" (grand dutchy of finlands flag).

Would post you the sources but it wouldnt help since they are in finnish.

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuva:Finnish_Guard_Battallion_Flag_Parade.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Cross_Flag

--- finnish panzerjäger

Jäger and Jägers
I don't know about finnish practice, but in german, Jäger is both the singular and plural form. There is no such word as Jägers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MartinKal (talk • contribs) 22:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

That also brings into question how it is used in english. is it like ninja, where using either ninja, or ninjas for plural is acceptable? 67.173.1.71 (talk) 07:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The Jäger (military) article says plural is jäger in English. The Finnish word jääkäri has plural forms (jääkärit, jääkäreitä) as has the (definite form of) Swedish jägare. --LPfi (talk) 11:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Separate article needed
There should probably be a separate article about the Jäger movement, as that was the foundation for the volunteers going to Germany from Finland, the Finnish and also Swedish language version seems to cover this in a better way than the current article in English. Ulflarsen (talk) 11:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Background and motivation
I am suprised that the importance for Germany is mentioned in the beginning of the article, but not the motivations of the volonteers themselves. I have understood that most of them went to Germany only to get training to fight the Russians in Finland (see Russification of Finland). I have not heard about the fighting in the German army being part of what they set out to do. Many were also from "red" background and were quite confused when they were put to fight Finnish people.

The last point might have been important also for many of the farmers on the white side in the civil war, who believed they were fighting Russians and collaborators. This is one reason why calling the war "The civil war" or "The war of freedom" is so controversial.

I am not going to edit the article as I do not have good sources. I do not know for sure whether these points are true for a small minority or for a big majority of the people involved, but I think it is important to be aware of them.

--LPfi (talk) 11:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * This brings up a good point. As modern people, we have to realize that "truths we hold self-evident" weren't in 1915. It was not clear to anyone how to support Finnish nationalism, and both collaboration with Russians and anti-Czarism were seen as valid methods. Jägers saw the former as ineffective. Furthermore, with Finnish nationalism not fully developed, anti-monarchist liberalism, i.e. anti-Czarism was the motivation for earlier Finnish "activists". This is one point that modern people frequently confuse: "activists" were not modern nationalists. --Vuo (talk) 19:52, 12 March 2009 (UTC)