Talk:Józef Glemp

Sourcing
IronDuke keeps adding problematic references to Glemp's "anit-semitism". The Dershowitz references are both from Dershowitz himself. The next reference is misleading: here is the Google Books page in question. The Wistrich reference (Google Books result here: ) seems viable, though. Malay Agin (talk) 02:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * How is the reference misleading? IronDuke  03:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Reference says "In the early 1990s members of the Closed Church uttered many overt and covert references to Jews as harmful to Poland. At the same time they denied holding anti-Semitic views." You cannot, with a straight face, use this as a reference for Glemp's anti-semitism. First, it does not reference him, secondo, it contains in very next statement a denial, third it doesn't reference "anti-semitism" per se in the used quote. Similarly, Dershowitz calling him an anti-semite in two places is ad hominem, not a reliable source. Neither meet the high standards of WP:BLP. Also, please don't alter my talk page titles. They are your sources, you must defend them. Malay Agin (talk) 04:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a misleading description of the quote. Right after saying "members of the Closed Church uttered many overt and covert references to Jews as harmful to Poland", it goes one to explicitly name Glemp, and says "A good example of it in Poland's Closed Church is the speech Primate Jozef Gelmp (1929-) made". That reference clearly labels Glemp as exhibiting what it calls 'antisemitism without antisemites". It is also poor form, as ID notes, to use editor names in heading titles. LoverOfTheRussianQueen (talk) 15:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * LoTRQ puts it well. Malay, your point about Dershowitz is literally a non-sequitur. You have no standing to judge Dershowitz's remarks, even if your judgment were correct, which of course it isn't. His views on this subject are notable. That's all we need. And again, your insulting me via header titles won't be tolerated. IronDuke  01:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But they are IronDuke's sources, so he should defend them. The Dershowitz quote doesn't satisfy WP:BLP.  It is your responsibility to show that it might be (which I can't see thast it is).  Malay Agin (talk) 05:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You can feel free to continue to assert without argument, but it will remain unpersuasive. IronDuke  16:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I think there is something on Wikipedia called "I DON'T HEAR YOU", the deliberate playing that you don't understand the point. As I have said elsewhere: the point is that one notable person calling another notable person an "anti-Semite", when the first notable person is or was engaged in a lawsuit against the second is a violation of BLP. Your two Dershowitz sources are both Dershowitz himself, not a reliable source quoting Dershowitz (the Jerusalem Post piece is written by Dershowitz), so there is no reliable source for "anti-Semite". Glemp is a nasty man, to be sure, but you can not just label people with "anti-Semite" because they say controversial or even hateful things. If we labeled every BLP in here as "racist" using the logic, few would escape. Also, don't alter my comments, here or elsewhere. I've struck out the word I guess you object to, as you have improved some of the sources. Malay Agin (talk) 23:28, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, the New York Times article only has the unnamed "some" accusing him of anti-Semitism, and even then, only "pursuing him with accusations", and in the next article, the protestors are described as "militant Jewish". None of this passes the BLP test. Malay Agin (talk) 23:32, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there is something on Wikipedia called "I AM A SOCKPUPPET." In any case, please know that I hear you loud and clear, perhaps more than you know; your arguments are specious. Also, please don't call Glemp "a nasty man." That's a BLP vio, and a violation of WP:SOAP. Thanks for the strikeout, but I don't think we need a any more record of your inappropriate header than this very discussion. IronDuke  03:05, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Hate speech against the ethnic German minority
Glemp has been known on a multitude of occasions to publicly deny the existence of the German ethinc minority in Poland past 1945. This mixture of obvious lies and communist government propaganda has been widely criticized during his reign by Germany and other European countries. He profiled himself over a longer span of time not only as Jew-hater but as German-hater. It is a unique fact that Glemp, a supporter of the commnunist regime as long as his catholic church woud not be touched by the communist rulers, had been enabled to publicly spread hatred against ethnic minorities, a fact which strongly opposes communist internationalism. Why is this not mentioned in the article?

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130722034325/http://www.archidiecezja.warszawa.pl/homepage/?a=6464 to http://www.archidiecezja.warszawa.pl/homepage/?a=6464
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External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on Józef Glemp. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927194436/http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/news/19534.php?index=19534&lang=en%7CCOMUNICATO to http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/news/19534.php?index=19534&lang=en%7CCOMUNICATO
 * Added tag to http://www.polskatimes.pl/artykul/748285,pogrzeb-kard-jozefa-glempa-msza-zalobna-w-bazylice-sw-krzyza,id,t.html?cookie=1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130131080351/http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114871,13307693,Dzis_ostatnie_pozegnanie_prymasa_Glempa__Msze_poprowadzi.html to http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114871,13307693,Dzis_ostatnie_pozegnanie_prymasa_Glempa__Msze_poprowadzi.html
 * Added tag to http://www.catholicnews.com/data/briefs/cns/20130128.htm

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