Talk:Jab'a

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Major mess up
Ok, there is some major mess-up in this place..is it in the Bethlehem Governorate, or the Hebron Governorate?? The ARIJ links say Bethlehem, and in http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/vdata.php there is no Jaba, Huldra (talk) 22:01, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It is just north of Surif, in Hebron Governorate..and it seems to have been in  Hebron Governorate until recently. But......according to ARIJ it is in Bethlehem Governorate today, Huldra (talk) 22:08, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Heally Gross (author)
User:Huldra, can I please ask you why you do not first start a discussion on the Talk-Pages and on the Wikipedia/Reliable sources/Noticeboard before you delete sources? Can you imagine if everyone did what you did, simply because he wasn't sure about the source being reliable or not? Heally Gross is an Israeli author. She happens to be a third generation of writers from her family, having compiled several books. Here is a brief description of her published books (click here), where she writes on places in Israel's modern history, from the foundation of the Modern State of Israel unto the present. She approaches each subject with a critical demeanor, bringing down in her works the archival material from which she draws her information (citing many academic sources). She is also a lecturer. She also has her own YouTube channel which you can see here, and there is a video showing how she interviewed Arab residents of Allar (now Mata, Israel) before publishing her book, which you can see here. See minutes 1:35 - ff. You can see one of her lectures here. One of her books, Adullam: `veshavu banim ligevulam`, Jerusalem 2014, has received a review in the Bakitzur weekly which you can see here, and which weekly publication was itself a question of "reliable source," published by the Mateh Yehuda Regional Council, until you posted a question on the Noticeboard in April of 2017 about its reliability and it was duly confirmed as reliable (see Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_223). The Palmach Information Center also mentions her book here. Gross' book, "Adamah Ahuvah" is a vital source for history of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, a plethora of information not easily had elsewhere, and, yet, you deleted the well-sourced material in the article Operation Ha-Har and this article taken from her book. To impress upon you how well renowned of an author she is in Israeli circles, look at the collection of books on her name at the Hebrew University library in Jerusalem (click here). I suggest that you start a query on the aforementioned Noticeboard about the reliability of the current works by the author Heally Gross. I will restore the edits that you have deleted after 24-hours and will hope that you will inquire about the WP:RS on the proper venue before deleting in the future.Davidbena (talk) 23:37, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Davidbena I have answered on Talk:Operation Ha-Har, lets try to have the discussion in one place, thanks, Huldra (talk) 23:50, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * And no, the reliability ofBakitzur was NOT confirmed.... The only other person who commented was Sir Joseph ...who is not an outsider view (When did he ever disagree with you? I mean, like ever?) Huldra (talk) 23:59, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Huldra, so how do they ever reach a consensus on the RS Noticeboard? How does it work? I'm truly at a loss.Davidbena (talk) 00:09, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Onomastikon: ambiguous ID

 * "Jab'a is mentioned in Eusebius' renowned work, Onomasticon, as Gabatha..."

Jebata, a village near Haifa, a totally different area (see Gvat article), also identified as "Gabatha". Probably a common Gecised Aramaic name, see Gabbatha, 'elevation' (also Canaanite & Hebrew giv'ah, giv'a, for 'height/hill'), maybe 2 or many more listed by Eusebius, but Google Books offers zero acces, cannot check. Arminden (talk) 12:08, 27 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes, at least two Gabatha's are mentioned by Eusebius. The descriptions make clear that they are far apart. Referencing needs improvement. Zerotalk 01:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Established WHEN?
It might not be possible for us to figure it out, but I'm still pointing out the problem.
 * "Jab'a does not appear in records from the 16th century. Ref: Grossman, D. "The expansion of the settlement frontier of Hebron's western and southern fringes". Geography Research Forum, 5, 1982, p. 64."

But then:
 * "In 1596, Jaba appeared in Ottoman tax registers as being in the Nahiya of Quds of the Liwa of Quds, with a population of 3 Muslim households. ... Ref: Hütteroth and Abdulfattah, 1977, p. 112"

Contradictory statements (at least at first sight).
 * 1) Do 3 households constitute a village?
 * 2) Are the 2 sources discussing the same Jaba? See sections further above: very common toponym; this Jaba seems to appear in different districts - maybe confusion?
 * 3) Did 2nd source use additional primary source(s)? Wasn't Grossman (1982) aware of Hütteroth & Abdulfattah (1977)? Did he ignore it? Goes to RS character. Who is "D. Grossman"? Insufficient ref details, no online access. Maybe he interpreted the defter entry differently (which Jab'a, what constitutes a village, ...)? Mystery.

I must admit that, after seeing the Hütteroth & Abdulfattah p. 112 snippet offered by Google Books, I was in awe of Huldra's work: it's such a hard-to-decipher, hand-typed opaque table w/o drawn columns, dense with crowded-in signs and figures, that it must have been hell to figure it out.

In any case, the user is left wondering. Arminden (talk) 21:38, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Hütteroth & Abdulfattah identify their Jab'a with this place, per the grid reference. Grossman's reference is unclear whether he means this place or somewhere else (there are other possibilities) so I propose he be deleted. On question 1, a village is what is registered as a village, big or small. This place paid taxes as a village. Zerotalk 01:14, 8 March 2024 (UTC)