Talk:Jab Tak Hai Jaan/Archive 3

Unlocking
and, i see that you were discussing some issue which has now been archieved since long. Is the dispute resolved? Or at least are you two in a position that no edit wars would happen? If yes, please request for removing the page protection at WP:RFUP. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 06:16, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I never request full page protection at that time too and now i think it's better to maintain good relation with others.Then i suggest instead of different section for conflicting reports,the figures are added at the end of domestic subsection.Then it looks good and article will have a chance to become a good article though.Thanx ---zeeyanketu talk to me 08:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Who requested it does not matter. As long as both the parties in dispute agree on discussing and concluding things on talk page and not edit warring on the article itself, the article can be unlocked. That way admins don't have to come and close edit requests of typos. Do you two agree on unlocking it? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just wait for Asher comments because my opinions remains same regarding those discussions. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 13:58, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

'''I agree with zeeyanketu now. Let's add the conflicting reports at the end of domestic to make it a proper way to present the information. I'll fix it once the protection is lifted. Also, I agree with zeeyanketu that we should merge accolades into the main article. I'll do that too when the article is unprotected. I'm glad zeeyanketu and I learned to work together over the Dabangg 2 page. He's a good guy. I'll request the protection be removed. Ashermadan (talk) 11:39, 28 December 2012 (UTC)'''
 * So, how do we unprotect the page? Ashermadan (talk) 12:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think Asher is busy these days and yes i am agree on unlocking the page and i am going to request for it to User:Qwyrxian. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 17:35, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. Plea$ant 1623  ✉  17:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've asked Ashermadan more explicitly for her/his input; s/he has been editing over the last few days, so we should wait for clarity. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:23, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have one solution,use Bollywood Hungama and Koimoi now on for films like Jab Tak Hai Jaan ,Son of Sardaar, Talaash, Dabangg 2 .Both are more browsed websites than Box Office India .You can see Alexia ranking. Also Box Office India website is going to close in July 2013 and Bollywood Hungama has extended its domain to 2022.Then there will be no need of conflicting reports section in theses articles.

See Dabangg2 crossing nett. 100 crore in india on 6th day is already on news channels and trade magazines,but Box Office India has only given nett 99 crore in 7 days. You can see here http://www.boxofficeindia.com/boxnewsdetail.php?page=shownews&articleid=5242&nCat= Old Bollywood Hungama reports can be accessed any time like his: http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/trade/top5/id/919/date/2012-12-07 Abhinavname (talk) 05:25, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Koimoi is a blog now actually, I didn't know. Komal Nahta has severed relations with them so it's not an RS anymore, just a blog. Blogs cannot be RS now. Also, we can use Bollywood Hungama when the data provided by BOI is incomplete or the error between official figures and BOI figures is very large, like 25% in the case of JTHJ vs. the usual 5% in the case of all other films. Ashermadan (talk) 11:45, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Per request, I have unprotected the page. I'll still be monitoring it, in case the prior IP abuse means we need to semi-protect, or in case another edit war breaks out. Thank you for your discussion and consensus building. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:12, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! -- Plea$ant 1623  ✉  13:18, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanx a lot Asher and i am grateful to Qwyrxian and all other mediators.I am sure its a fresh and good start. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 17:58, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Koimoi is not a blog,its a full-fledged website just like bollywood Hungama. Blogs are like these one:

http://conciseboxoffice.wordpress.com/ http://www.naachgaana.com/ http://www.gomolo.com/ http://boxofficeday.com/ http://entertainment.oneindia.in/ Also,can anyone add the Bollywood Hungama source to Son of Sardaar also according to which it grossed inr 1050000000 nett in India. And BOI gave only 88.50 crores only. its a big difference,just like JTHJ. Abhinavname (talk) 18:25, 28 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Abhinavname,the section is for unlocking and you put that type of links about 100 times on talk pages.Please try to understand what's going on.Do not you want that we all keep mutual respect with each other.You always show about 10 links ,Can we put figures from all of these and insert articles.What is the scenario of article after that.You have been creating account many times just for fun not for betterment of articles.You did it so many times in the same tone even with your ip addresses too which starts from 117....Experience tell things better.Please stop all of it for the sake of good faith and mutual cooperation. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 18:28, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit warring
Hello,if there will be chance of any type of disagreement between users.Start the discussion here instead of reverting more than once.Thanx ---zeeyanketu talk to me 18:49, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request Requesting editors to comment: Golden Kela awards
Please add Golden kela awards to the table in Accolades section. I'm not familiar with tables. --14.194.57.31 (talk) 04:49, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have never seen these type of awards in accolades box even i suspect their credibility and the sources.They have a chance for addition only if some established users agree with it and the page is protected with pending changes protection WP:PCPP ,then everyone is welcome to contribute but should wait for level one review by Users with reviewer right. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 09:53, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi zee, I dont know why people are not heard about Golden Kela awards. All the prominent online news papers are reported about the nominations. Just make a google news search for "Golden Kela Awards". Also I hope you read Golden_Kela_Awards. And of course "credibility" is a matter which may need to be really discussed, some other time. But actually, if you think all the Indian film awards (except National awards) are credible then I believe you will find this one as credible. Also the previous winner in the same category was Ra.One which is mentioned there. And I'm sorry I reverted your edits without a discussion.

-- rahul  ( talk2me ) 10:23, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Golden Kela are not RS and have a history of biased nominations and complete lunacy. I don't know why Ra.One has it but Ill open a discussion there. I agree with Zeku. It's unprofessional and ridiculous that some random award is being added. If the Golden Kela's are added then the TOI best of 2012 should be added and so should the Bollywood cosmopolitan awards. Seriously. Maintain the quality of this article. Ashermadan (talk) 10:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Also Rahul, I would advise you not to revert edits again. Are you familiar with the 3 RR rule? Also, I know what's really going on here but I'll let it slide. Golden Kela are not RS. And they will be removed from Ra.One as well. Ashermadan (talk) 10:48, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you tell me why it is not RS? Because you think its biased? Then I'll say all the private award shows are biased moreover unprofessional. All of them are just running to make a ceremonial event and simply to make money. The best film of any private award show is never the best. Its just pure business. Everyone knows that. But we consider them as notable because they are just well known. Like other awards Golden Kela is run by an established private limited company. And If its not notable/reliable then just tell me what is all this:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Bollywood/The-nomination-list-of-the-Golden-Kela-Awards-2012/Article1-979500.aspx

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/imran-anushka-golden-kela-awards/1/239206.html

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/dabangg-2-up-for-worst-film-at-golden-kela-awards/1048927/

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/Guess-whos-nominated-for-Bollywoods-Golden-Kela-Awards/articleshow/17718721.cms

http://in.news.yahoo.com/nomination-list-golden-kela-awards-2012-183000674.html

http://www.indiawest.com/news/8311--jthj-dabangg-2-up-for-worst-film-at-golden-kela-awards.html

Let me remind you maintaining quality is not about presenting positives only. And one more thing, Ra.One is a GA. I hope you never simply run there and clear it. Because that's not going to be considered as professional. :) -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 11:40, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * There seems to be some agreement as i have seen some reliable news papers too. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 11:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

'''There's an award in the Golden Kelas called 'ARE YOU RETARDED YOU WATCHED THAT FILM AWARD'. That should be enough to eliminate any credibility they had whatsoever. Ashermadan (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)'''


 * These are ridiculous awards that are always biased. But it doesn't matter, I'll add the awards to the list. I'm also going to add other awards that fall into the RS category based on the discussion above. Also, let me remind you the RESULTS of these AWARDS are PENDING. So Rahul, I know Talaash flopped badly and was called a travesty by The Los Angeles Times so try to control the fanboy in you. Ashermadan (talk) 17:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Excuse me.. Talaash-LA times-fanboy... :D Where are you going dude? Now who is being a fanboy here? Let me gladly inform you that I'm not the producer of Talaash. Sorry to disappoint you.. Now, if you think a Talaash fan will come here and "vandalise" this article then it may be your attitude not mine.:) -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 20:06, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I suspect their credibility, too. Some of their nominations absolutely made no sense. I don't think they should be added. Even the Razzies' nominations are better than those of Golden Kela's. Plea$ant 1623  ✉  17:47, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Even I don't think they should be added. The nominations make no sense whatsoever. If they are added then I'm going to add The UK Bollywood Cosmopolitan Awards. Ishq Magazine Germany awards and many more. A lot more. They also classify as credible awards until the arbitrary rules Rahul is making up. Fair enough, no? Ashermadan (talk) 17:57, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Who cares about Rahul1001? Leave him. Plea$ant 1623  ✉  18:07, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Here's the table. When you people realize the Golden Kela's make no sense and are completely retarded do tell me. Ashermadan (talk) 18:26, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Negative

 * These are totally ridiculous. Just don't listen to Rahul and delete them. Plea$ant 1623  ✉  18:33, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I deleted them. Golden Kelas make no sense. Are these for real? I can't believe I even made a table. They make no sense. Ashermadan (talk) 18:34, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

'''There's an award in the Golden Kelas called 'ARE YOU RETARDED YOU WATCHED THAT FILM AWARD'. That should be enough to eliminate any credibility they had whatsoever. Ashermadan (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)'''


 * Hello Asher,please cool down.We are co-editors from some time for common articles but others have equal right to express theirs views.Honestly ,we have to care about newcomers too and he provided some link from Indian reliable newspapers.We both have seen the result of hot arguments and now working together after some better understanding.So i suggest you to add them and there is no need to create box instead write in simple lines at accolades section as per reference. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 19:49, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Something "doesn't make sense" to some editors doesn't make it unreliable. This award makes perfect sense as the other awards to me. And I believe also to those reputed news papers above stated. I'm telling again there is so many articles mentioning Golden Kela, including GA, then why not here? Thanks for the support zeeyanketu.

Requesting other members to comment on this.. -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 20:06, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not supporting anyone,just commenting on behalf of neutrality.Sometimes misunderstanding occurs between users So,i hope finally we will have a mutual agreement. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 20:14, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Of course i meant support to the content actually, not me. -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 20:22, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry. I disagree. I agree with Pleasant. Any awards that have a 'are you retarded for watching this film' award is unreliable. Comedy shows or whatever these Kelas are have no place in a proper article. Adding them is ridiculous. Pleasant agrees with me. Let's wait for others to comment because again, the Kela nominations make no sense. JTHJ is one of the best reviewed films of the year according to Review Gang, Overseas critics and our accumulation of reviews. Either the Kelas are biased or a complete joke. Either ways, Pleasant and I, as well as another editor, agree that there is no place for the Kelas here. So far the majority is against adding them. So too bad. Ashermadan (talk) 20:37, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

When others comment on this tell me. So far it's pretty much a no. Ashermadan (talk) 20:53, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know this is not a democracy dear. We take decisions based on facts rather than votes. Even if its not, its a draw. So please stop talking nonsense. --02:14, 1 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.194.58.48 (talk)
 * And maybe Rahul you should stop hiding behind your IP address and face the facts. It's not going to get added. Keep on whining. It isn't going to revive Aamir's finished career. Keep on crying. Boo hoo. Ashermadan (talk) 02:45, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh man, you talk really childish, did anyone told you this before? I dont have to hide, and im not running, its you. Thats why you are accusing editors without even commenting on the issue.

And Im requesting you, if you and Aamir Khan have any problems please dont place me between. Solve it youreself. :D -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 03:24, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe you should learn to read or see. I commented. I said no and gave a valid reason because the names of the awards and the whole Kela institution is a joke. It's non RS and completely biased for no reason. If the films nominated were critical failures I would consider adding them like Ra.One which received extremely mixed and polarized reviews. JTHJ makes no sense and is a ridiculous nominee. So maybe you should use your little brain and stop being a troll. I really don't have time for you. It's not going in the article. Keep on whining. Even Kamaal Khan is written about by all these newspapers, do you see us putting his reviews in articles? Seriously. Use your brain. Ashermadan (talk) 04:12, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, i dont have much brain as you. can you help me here? I'm asking you simple questions:
 * Where in WP:RS or WP:V says:
 * the source's name must not be joke?
 * reliability depends upon the article not source? (As one rule for other articles and one for you are editing)
 * Even WP:COMMON says "...by saying, "it seemed like common sense to me," you should be careful not to imply that other editors are lacking in common sense, which may be seen as uncivil." The reason for nomination golden kela provided really makes sense to me:


 * And who are you to take decisions what should and shouldn't be in an article? You cannot bias sources upon your decisions on good and bad film. As frm whr i can see, its not you running WP.

And I would like to ask other respected editors, are you all given the complete control of film articles to its fans who doesn't even heard about NPOV? Seriously friends, this is not good.. -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 05:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but the reason they provided for the nomination is total nonsense. And what you said clearly states that you hate the film very much. And if they are so reliable, why they are not mentioned in articles like Ek Main Aur Ekk Tu, Agneepath (2012 film), Cocktail (2012 film), Housefull 2, Rowdy Rathore and Dabangg 2? Golden Kela's may suit for films which got mixed or negative reviews (ex: Dabangg 2, Ra.One, Housefull 2), but are too disrespectful for the films which got positive reviews (ex: Ek Main Aur Ekk Tu, Agneepath (2012), THIS). Plea$ant 1623  ✉  07:18, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thats not the answer to my questions. Feel free to feel nonsense, but as I said, me, zeeyanketu(I hope), and all the Indian media doesn't feel so. In the case of other articles add it there if you want. I dont care. And ofcourse i didnt liked jthj, so what? im not removing any positives abt it, but its you are removing the negetives because you like the film. -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 09:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

See Rahul, now even experienced editors agree with me. I know Talaash flopped but trolling SRK pages isn't going to help. You're the biased one who can't think straight because his idol or whatever chotu Aamir Khan has no career anymore. It happens. That's the name of the game. Chill. And we are going by Wikipedia rules. Kelas are non RS because their awards are nonsense and their reasons are nonsense. Ashermadan (talk) 08:43, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm,you just call him "chotu".I dont think Talaash" is a flop.It's a semihit although.I dont understand why are you so aggressive on talk pages while at same time you are good at editing.I know you both are disagree with him but please donot bite anyone.I choose to remain diplomatic because we have been working together.Remember one thing,fact is most important than anything else.Who knows what is right exactly.Wait for others to intervene.Till then,just relax. ---zeeyanketu talk to me 10:15, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Where are these editors? I can see only one. May be including you, let me say experience is not abt time, its about being mature, seeing things with open eyes. I dont think a guy calls a film article "SRK page" and makes comments about "Aamir Khan" there considered as experienced one. Let me make it clear. I like aamir, It doesn't have anything to do with why im here. I know you are talking this because my previous edits. I contributed to SMJ because i liked the show. And moreover It was really great to work with editors like Msrag. I dont think you will ever going to understand that. So pls stop turning ur face against the problem by telling nonsense again and again and if you dont have any answers pls stop commenting. I just want to know what other members think about it.

-- rahul  ( talk2me ) 09:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Why are you both pulling Aamir Khan into this? Anyways, the point is that I am supporting no one (no hard feelings, I think). Also Zeeyanketu is supporting no one, because he also suspects Golden Kela's credibility. I gave those comments because I don't like the film, but because I think that the awards is disrespectful (especially when they called the moviegoers "retards").-- Plea$ant 1623  ✉  11:21, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Rahul, it's not going to get added because any sane editor would realize that an award show that calls moviegoers retards in Hindi and has other derogatory awards is not RS. Keep on whining. No one is supporting you. Ashermadan (talk) 13:44, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I really dnt want to talk to you, also it doesn't matter, but jst asking, can you verify that? -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 14:20, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * And I don't want to waste time with you. Yes, there's an award called, DIRECT TRANSLATION, "The Are You Retarded/Mentally Challenged/Autistic For Spending Money On That Film Award" and Ek Tha Tiger and a few other films are nominated. That is not the language of an RS nor should junk like this should be included. Ashermadan (talk) 14:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for wasting your time. But WP:RS doesn't make any comments about the kind of language of sources. To your info, I never cited goldenkela.com as a source. I just showed the award's reliability by citing other sources. And Im sure all they are RS. And pls don't waste your time again. -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 17:13, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

It's still not going to be added man. Keep at it. Good luck! Maybe you can find someone who agrees with you. Ashermadan (talk) 20:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Zeeyankatu asked me to comment here. I won't give an opinion on including the info or not, but I do want to clarify something, because you're all misusing the term "RS". WP:RS is a guideline that tells us which sources are reliable, not which content to include. The awards are not a "source", they are, well, an award. The questions you need to answer are: Finally, I want to draw your attention to what I'm guessing is a similar award for the US film industryt: the Raspberry Awards. I'll further point out that not only are these awards extensively discussed in the media and on WP, but movies that have "won" them (of course, it's not usually a good thing to win) are listed on the pages of the movies themselves; for example look at the awards sections for Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and The Last Airbender, both of which list both "positive" awards and the Razzies. Now, I'm not saying that this necessarily means these awards belong here; I don't know enough about them to know if they are equivalent in terms of importance. Wait, one more thing: stop insulting each other. Any more of that and I or someone else is going to have to start blocking for violations of WP:CIVIL/WP:NPA. Please conduct a civil discussion, even if you find the subject itself distasteful. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:26, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Have the awards been discussed in reliable sources (i.e., have reliable newspapers, websites that meet WP:RS, etc.) discussed the awards? If not, then it's pretty clear you can't include the info; the award website itself would not be sufficient.
 * 2) Are the awards "important enough" to meet WP:UNDUE. That's the rule that says that we don't include every single little fact about a subject, but only those things of significant importance.
 * As Qwyrxian has explained above, this is not an issue of RS, rather an issue of notability. Indian films did not have worst film of the year or equivalent to golden raspberry awards in the past. Finally, we have now. I feel this Golden Kela award is notable, and is covered in reliable sources. So, this award should be included in the articles of films that get the award. In case such articles are extensive, the nominations can also be mentioned.--Dwaipayan (talk) 03:51, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Ok it would be added.Thanx for clarity ---zeeyanketu talk to me 09:08, 2 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'll add it back. I'll also update all the other pages. Especially Dabangg 2 which leads the nominations in like 10 different categories. Ashermadan (talk) 09:21, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Ok I think its over now. Thanks for the comments. If I said anything wrong as Qwyrxian said, i never meant to insult anyone. My sincere apologies to Ashermadan, I hope he can understand. -- rahul  ( talk2me ) 15:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC)