Talk:Jack Bauer

Moved from article
This section needs condensing, and most of the section consists of original research from the viewpoint of a viewer. Looking over it, I'm not sure how it could be included, but if included, it should fit into the "Characterization" section, should be highly summarised. Anyway, here it is. Steve Crossin  (contact)  12:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Characteristics
Bauer's behavior and actions are consistent with doing that which has to be done to protect the United States and his family. Indeed, these seem to be the only moral imperatives that Jack follows consistently. His philosophy was perhaps best expressed after he shot a witness in front of George Mason, the CTU Special Agent in Charge. George expressed dismay at Jack's extreme action, and Jack's reply typifies his attitude: "That's the problem with people like you, George. You want results, but you never want to get your hands dirty." Lying, torture, theft, and even killing people he cares about are all viable options to Jack. In this way the character gives a twist to the understanding of "hero" in American popular culture. Comparisons with the very people he battles are inevitable. As stated by George Mason in Day 1, "Rules do not apply to Jack Bauer. He does what he wants, when he wants, and he does not care whose life it affects." The very day he was released from a 20 month stay in a Chinese prison for violating the sovereignty of their consulate, he was willing to risk the exact same thing again by going into the Russian Consulate over the objection of former President Charles Logan, who attempted to redeem himself for his actions during Day 5 by offering to help Jack locate Dmitri Gredenko. Jack's work brings with it dangers that occasionally put his and his family's life on the line, as well as the lives of those close to him, in order to serve the greater good. In one instance, he was forced to choose between defying a terrorist with a biological weapon or killing one of his superiors, Regional Director Ryan Chappelle. Despite efforts to locate the terrorist before the deadline, Bauer was forced to execute Chappelle to prevent the release of the weapon. In the fourth season, Bauer drew the ire of the Chinese government when he infiltrated and extracted a Chinese scientist named Lee Jong from the Chinese Consulate in Los Angeles, which resulted in the death of the Chinese Consul. Lee was shot during the raid and needed immediate medical attention. At CTU, Bauer learned that the sole doctor was already working on Paul Raines, estranged husband of Audrey Raines who earlier in the series had saved Jack's life. Much to Audrey's horror, Bauer drew his weapon and ordered the doctor to abandon Paul Raines and begin surgery on Lee. Raines went into cardiac arrest and died shortly afterward. With the information he obtained from Lee, though, Bauer was able to prevent a nuclear explosion in Los Angeles. He is also willing to kill Chase in season 3 at Salazar's ranch. Jack is rarely seen showing remorse for such actions until after the crisis has passed. He has on occasion revealed his more vulnerable side, including three notable scenes:at the end of Day One when he starts crying while holding his wife's dead body; the end of Day 3 when he breaks down crying after the traumatic events of the day; while holding Tony Almeida's lifeless body in the middle of Day 5; and after shooting Curtis Manning in the beginning of Day Six. Jack also has an emotional outburst directed at James Heller at the end of Day 6 which, unlike most such occurrences, was not toward a strategic aim, but was brought about by Jack's strong personal feelings regarding his life, his time in China and Audrey Raines. When it was discovered terrorists were preparing to release a canister of nerve gas in a crowded shopping mall, Jack was ordered by his superior Lynn McGill to let the terrorists carry out the attack, which would have led to hundreds of deaths, and then follow them in the hopes of recovering the other nerve gas containers they had stolen. Jack refused and stopped the attack, even against the rationalization that a few hundred deaths were nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands of deaths the rest of the nerve gas could inflict. Jack has volunteered for suicide missions in the past, ranging from crashing a plane with a nuclear bomb in the desert on Day 2, to asking his Chinese captors on Day 5 to kill him instead of interrogating him for years, knowing that he would never speak. On Day 6, Bauer offered no resistance when he was released from Chinese custody only to learn he was a bargaining chip for a known terrorist. Only when he learned that CTU was fooled by terrorists and that his death would amount to nothing did he begin to resist and escape his captors. Once again, later that day he requested that president Wayne Palmer allow him to carry out an exchange with the Chinese to release Audrey Raines on the basis he would sacrifice himself by destroying the building he would be in with explosives, in order to destroy the component being exchanged.

Christ Figure?
I'm thinking something about how Jack is a Christ figure (literarily / figuratively) should be put in the article. Here's why (probably more parallels exist):

65.40.21.65 (talk) 07:43, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Incredibility yet constant omniscience
 * Invincibility
 * Scars on hand from Marwan
 * Killed for certain people's mistakes, then brought back to life shortly after
 * Middle-aged
 * David Palmer (God) is like a father to him
 * Will give his life for his country (sins)
 * Self-sacrificing
 * Goes on journey in desert (Mojave)
 * Long period of silence (solitude) / prison
 * Brother who betrays him and becomes evil
 * People don't know he's alive until they see him (i.e. doubting Thomas)
 * Virgin Mary Tattoo in Season 3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24 biggest fan (talk • contribs) 18:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but that would constitute original research. If you have a reliable source that made this comparison, we could discuss including it. Steve Crossin Contact/24 07:58, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Literally? Even figuratively it's a stretch. David D. (Talk) 18:10, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Origin of name
is it worth metioning that Jack is seen sometimes as a trump card?? As his name implies he is the Jack Bauer which is very often used as a trump card in many card games. 82.34.139.114 (talk) 17:11, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Totally. I'd put this on the main page if I had a decent link to prove they were aware of it when they named him. The "Best Bower" was a special card invented for use in the game of Euchre in which two of the Jacks are named Right and Left Bower; this happened during the 1860s in the USA. "Bower" is a corruption of the German word "Bauer" used in Alsace, from where Euchre or Juker originated as the ordinary word for "Jack." This card evolved into the Joker during the 1870s. The Joker arrived in Europe in the 1880s along with the game of Poker. It was gradually incorporated into French-suited packs with 52 cards. So Jack Bauer is the trump card and, although the place of the joker in the modern deck is not dervied directly from the Tarot, I'm sure the creators of the show had some cosmic symbolism in mind. Silverwood (talk) 09:24, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Deletion of text and links
The following was deleted from the article:

''"Bauer's use of torture during interrogation is often cited as an inspiration for CIA interrogators http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/04/21/BL2008042101378_pf.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/19/humanrights.interrogationtechniques

I can't find a reason for this deletion here or in the edit history. Anyone object to its reinsertion?

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 04:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd have re-inserted it, but it's already been re-added. Steve Crossin Talk/24 01:22, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Steve, but it was removed again by Tyuia who gave this reason: "(cited sources do not support this dubious claim, and at any rate this falls under controversies and does not belong in the intro". To my reading the cited sources do support the text. Can you explain why you disagree, Tyuia? Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 20:46, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The Guardian article is only the leade. The full article isn't there. It sounds more like a headline grab than a source. The Post article is a blog entry. Froomkin works for the Huffington Post, not the Washington Post. He wrote an op-ed piece and put it on the blog. Froomkin doesn't actually make the claim, he merely states that some lawyers have made the claim. As such, the Post blog entry shouldn't be used and the Guardian article should be used with caution as it may very well just repeat that some lawyers made the claim like the Post did. Also, as written, the entry is misleading. It says it is "often cited". I don't see that being supported and drifts towards POV. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:10, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


 * So leave out the "often". Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 22:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't solve the issue about the WA Post. It's a blog entry of an op-ed by someone not on their staff. In other words, a glorified letter to the editor. And there is a WP:V problem for me for the Guardian article at this point. Just using the leade like that as a reference doesn't allow us to see the context of the accusation. The article itself could end u saying something completely different. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:26, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Jack will live
"The toxin has been said to have no cure; however, it is most likely that Jack will live."

This line is misleading. There is no evidence to verify that Jack will live. Sutherland is saying he'll be back for season 8, but who's to say Day 8 won't take place within the time frame of the pathogens time scale. I'm not saying he will live or die, I'm saying there's no good evidence either way. 82.16.187.137 (talk) 00:02, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I've removed it from the article. Steve Crossin Talk/24 01:33, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that sourcing is needed, but your logic is off. 7 ended with Bauer on his death bed. We saw the pathogen kills fast. There wouldn't be time for another day, especially since sources have already confirmed that the season will take place in NYC with a new head of CTU and that it would be set in the future (ie more than a day or two away). Niteshift36 (talk) 22:16, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Law and Politics - Scalia and Torture
I google the Scalia-Bauer incident in "Law and Politics" section and found the following additional info, which I think should be included in the article and also in the article on Justice Scalia:

http://newquebec.blogspot.com/2007/07/justice-scalia-defends-jack-bauer.html which quotes

What would Jack Bauer do? Canadian jurist prompts international justice panel to debate TV drama 24's use of torture The Globe and Mail COLIN FREEZE June 16, 2007 ......

During a break from the panel, Judge Scalia specifically mentioned the segment in Season 2 when Jack Bauer finally figures out how to break the die-hard terrorist intent on nuking L.A. The real genius, the judge said, is that this is primarily done with mental leverage. "There's a great scene where he told a guy that he was going to have his family killed," Judge Scalia said. "They had it on closed circuit television - and it was all staged. ... They really didn't kill the family.

Ray Eston Smith Jr (talk) 21:21, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * This may possibly be included somewhere, but the source you've provided is from a blog, which isn't reliable enough to be used on Wikipedia. If this material is posted elsewhere, it might be able to be added.  Steve Crossin   The clock is ticking.... 22:04, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I just removed the whole paragraph about Justice Scalia talking like a fanboy. Maybe he is a fanboy, but I don't think any justice would say something like that while in robes. This is too outlandish to merely be slapped with a "citation needed" tag.

I also put a current citation tag on the claim above that one, about politicians using Bauer as a model. I wouldn't be surprised, but it's not obvious to someone who doesn't listen to politicians much. --Jesdisciple (talk) 06:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Understand the facts are as is & referenced, but is there any counter assessment of this phenomenon, questioning how can jurists argue using a contrived pre-determined fiction based on nazi torture techniques in the courts of the real world? Incidentally Lie To Me used the same trope, are they gonna be quoting Lie to Me now? 110.33.247.71 (talk) 02:42, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Stephanie Bauer
Who is/was Stephanie Bauer? How is she related to Jack Bauer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattdog1985 (talk • contribs) 04:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

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