Talk:Jack Ketch

Untitled
I took a few quick passes through this article due to a few run-on sentences and overuse of commas. It's possible that Ketch's reputation has been shaded too strongly to the dark side. He might've been notably inaccurate with Monmouth but this does not necessarily mean he was sadistic. It would take a proper historian to clear that up. :) - Anon Y. Mouse 21:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Run ons and overuse of commas? I don't know what you're talking about, as I, at least, find no such mistakes in the prior versions, and the reputation is all that is available to historians, which is what is operative for any modern reader; therefore, I do not see how there are 'problems' to be addressed that can be addressed without the discovery of additional primary sources.  Also note that that previous sentence was properly punctuated.  Long does not mean "run on."  A run on is a specific grammatical mistake (use of a coordinating conjunction to join independent clauses without a comma).  Utgard Loki 15:12, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Billy Childish was one of the members of Jack Ketch & the Crowmen, as evidenced by the inclusion of two Crowmen tracks on the retrospective album "25 years of being childish". But I've only seen the Crowmen credit on emusic.com (I can't link the URL; it needs to be searched from their site); not on amazon.com. Can anybody confirm that Childish was a member of that band? not-just-yeti 20:24, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

In popular culture
I have removed the in popular culture section from the article as it unbalanced the article and was unreferenced. Before anyone considers re-adding any part of it, they should provide sources. Nev1 (talk) 01:33, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * In the 1951 classic "Scrooge", Mr. Jorkins characterizes the young Scrooge and Marley by quipping, "You'd better watch these two. They'd skin Jack Ketch alive if you let them".
 * The quip is actually, "You'd better watch these two fellows, you know. They'd skin Jack Ketch alive and he'd never know they'd done it." http://downloadsubtitles.net/scrooge-en-4 --Userboy87 (talk) 13:24, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

In Oliver Twist
 * In David Copperfield (novel), David exclaims to Uriah Heep "I will tell you what I should, under any other circumstances, as soon have thought of telling to Jack Ketch".
 * In Oliver Twist (novel), Fagin exclaims to Nancy about Bill Sikes "...if he gets off free, and dead or alive, fails to restore him to me; murder him yourself if you would have him escape Jack Ketch".
 * "The Night Before Larry Was Stretched", an Irish street song presumed to be from the eighteenth century, refers to the protagonist's hangman as Jack Ketch.
 * "Parasite Planet", a 1935 science fiction story by Stanley G. Weinbaum, features a Venusian plant called a Jack Ketch tree that strangles its prey using nooselike loops at the ends of its branches.
 * Several novels of Neal Asher's Polity series feature an AI-controlled military spaceship that has named itself Jack Ketch and has a fascination for historical methods of execution: Line of Polity (2003), [Brass Man] (2005), Polity Agent (2006).
 * The novels in The Baroque Cycle, by Neal Stephenson use the name Jack Ketch as a nickname for whichever executioner is currently serving at Tyburn Cross (although at least one scene takes place in 1714, 28 years after the death of the original Ketch).
 * In the Vertigo comic book series Fables, Jack Ketch is Fabletown's executioner. In issue 10, the lines directed at him were, "Try to do a better job on me than you did on my cousin, you incompetent butcher. See if you can do this one in ten chops or less." Later, a military campaign waged against the Empire to regain their homelands is named Jack Ketch, signaling the strategy of destroying the links between the Emperor's world and all other fable lands, of chopping off the head of the empire. Jack Ketch is also a term used to mean executioner in the series as well.
 * In the Alan Moore's comic book series Miracleman, Jack Ketch is an executioner themed superhero that appears in a dream sequence.
 * In the video game Xenosaga Episode II, the large, axe wielding foes use an attack called "Jack Ketch is a Killer."
 * The manga Leviathan, volume 4, features a storyline where a villain uses a book to possess civilians with the spirits of historical killers. The protagonist trumps the villain by using the book to possess a comrade with the spirit of Jack Ketch.
 * The human host for the Marvel Comics anti-hero Ghost Rider in the 1990s was known as Danny Ketch. Howard Mackie originally wanted to name the host "Jack Ketch" but instead opted to name the Danny's best friend as "Jack" and went with "Danny" for the host.
 * A band named "Jack Ketch & the Crowmen" released a 1988 record on Billy Childish's label Hangman Records.
 * In both the animated and videogame versions of Gregory Horror Show the character Nekozombie wears a T-Shirt with 'Jack Ketch' emblazoned on the front.
 * In Philip Larkin's "Livings", the line "Why is Judas like Jack Ketch" is one of the topics of conversation in the third stanza.
 * In Our Country's Good by Timberlake Wertenbaker the executioner is called "Ketch".
 * Indie-rock band "I.M. Legend" released their second CD entitled "Godspeed Jack Ketch" on Burnt Carbon Records.
 * Metal/deathmetal/grind band named "Jack Ketch" based in Sacramento, California
 * In Neil Gaiman's The Graveyard Book, Jack Ketch is a Jack of All Trades. Also referred to in the title of the pest control company "Ketch, Hare, Burke, and Ketch" in Neil Gaiman's We Can Get Them For You Wholesale.
 * In the Doctor Who audio drama "Dead London", an alien named Sepulchre takes the guise of Jack Ketch to control a facsimile of 17th century London.
 * In the book "You're Stepping on My Cloak and Dagger" by Roger Hall (A story of the OSS during WWII), Jack Ketch is referenced as the consulting architect for the design of the jump tower at Ft. Benning's Parachute School because of its resemblance to a gallows.
 * In the traditional British Punch and Judy puppetshow the character of the hangman is often referred to as Jack Ketch.
 * The band Caravan of Thieves used the following lyrics in their song "Burial at Sea" to refer to a hanging: "It was tricky but we stowed your little buddy all tied up in the galley/Now it's true romance/So, here's a little shanty/Nothing fancy/Sung by Jack and Nancy Ketch/Go fetch your swimming pants/'Cause it's time to dance."
 * Jack Ketch is a significant character in Pat Mills' 17th century zombie comic series Defoe, one of London's 12 principal zombie hunters and right hand man of the series' lead, Titus Defoe.
 * "Jack Ketch or A Leaf from Tyburn's Tree," a play by George Almar, was first performed at Sadler's Wells Theatre, London on September 20, 1841. In this version of events Ketch is a criminal who has been sentenced to death for robbery but is offered a free pardon if he agrees to become the next hangman.
 * "Jack Ketch" - heavy metal group from Tbilisi,Georgian Republic. In 1993 vocalist and guitarist Jack Ketch, former leader of White Trash, decided to create a new band. But in 1994 the band quit existence. In 2001 Nick/Klaus (P.I.Light, Parryzide, Ruins Of Faith, Undocreation, Most Evil, Jalath) initiated the second formation of Jack Ketch. The same year they recorded the album "All For Attack". Robert "Jack Ketch" (vocals, bass), Nick "Klaus" (drums) and Gela "Klim" (guitars). In December 2008 Klaus and Jack Ketch (Helldrivers, Game Over) decided to reanimate the band. For live playing they engaged new musicians - bassist Lord Saqo (Angel Of Disease, Most Evil, Jalath) and young talented guitarist Achi and started again. Now Jack Ketch and Klaus are working on "Time For Execution" album

Accounts
For anyone interested, there are different accounts on how the execution of Monmouth was conducted:
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=gQsbAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA60 (p60)
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=bmpMAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA765 (p765)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Smallman12q (talk • contribs) 19:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Successor
I'm not sure where to put this: Ketch is the immediate successor in the office of hangman to Edward Dun, who had in his turn succeeded Richard Brandon.(ref name="KetchDNB" /) Smallman12q (talk) 21:58, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=O3XnmANMk5IC&pg=PA244


 * Why not just integrate it into the text? I'm not sure though why it matters for Ketch's story that Dun succeeded Brandon. Malleus Fatuorum 22:12, 23 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The google book link takes me to a page that is unavailable. What dates are given there? I find it very strange that "Ketch is thought to have taken office in 1663" and yet is "first mentioned ... January 14, 1676." Who thinks he began serving 12/13 years earlier? (There's no reference for the claim, which for that matter is made in both the first and second paragraphs of the article.) -- Idontcareanymore (talk) 03:37, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Mercy
Did Monmouth beg for mercy from having Ketch as his executioner?Smallman12q (talk) 15:55, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Origin
On 16 November 2007, after a visit to Madame Tussauds, user 62.56.51.147 added to the article that Jack Ketch was "an immigrant of Irish Extraction". He did not give a citation. I couldn't find any mention of it in either the Encyclopedia Brittanica entry for him, which explicitly mentions that he is English; or the Dictionary of National Biography entry (Vol 31), which is extensive about his time as executioner, but silent about his earlier life ( see http://archive.org/stream/dictionarynatio47stepgoog#page/n84/mode/2up )

Thomas Seccombe, the author of the entry in the Dictionary of National Biography, was the author of a biography entitled "Life of John Ketch, executioner", but I've been unable to lay my hands on it.

I wonder if anyone can find a reference earlier than 16 November 2007 for this? If not, I'll undo that particular edit.

Breandán Dalton (talk) 18:47, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

It seems that nobody has yet been able to find such a reference, so I am undoing 62.56.51.147's addition

Breandán Dalton (talk) 10:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

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