Talk:Jack LaLanne/Archive 2

More pictures
I like the new very bold photo. I think we could use one more, maybe from the years in-between 20 and 90, maybe in his characteristic jumpsuit? Ocaasi (talk) 05:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

What was the cause of the pneumonia?
My understanding is that pneumonia is some kind of infection. I am wondering if he got it at the hospital itself?
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital-acquired_pneumonia
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosocomial_infection --75.85.14.106 (talk) 09:51, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Pneumonia is a non-specific lung infection that can happen due to a variety of factors, the causal one probably not easily determined. Unless reliable sources address it specifically, we'll just leave it at that.  Frankly, I don't think anyone knows. I think Pneumonia is generally one of the common ways you die when your immune system is compromised already and you encounter bacteria that otherwise wouldn't phase you.  Also, please sign your comments with four of these (~). Ocaasi (talk) 10:19, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

death
suggest protecting this article due to recent death, risk of vandalism.


 * Just done. - Denimadept (talk) 03:38, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * No it's not, cause I'm not logged in yet, and it let me into edit. --Baylink@en.w —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.93.30 (talk) 03:46, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I just watchlisted it. Only one vandalism-type edit seen since both KTLA and CNN announced his death, so admins won't protect it yet. Give it an hour or so. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 03:54, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I would suggest that it be standard practice that articles dealing wwith people should be protected. However, there should not be an excessive limit on it. I have noticed that some people put unreasonable protections on pages that last several months or more.--63.3.2.1 (talk) 04:13, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I mis-spoke. I didn't protect the article.  I flagged it as a recent death. - Denimadept (talk) 04:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the article has been fine, one or two test edits/announcements but generally just helpful cleanup. Also watched, but no need to add Semi- yet. Ocaasi (talk) 07:06, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Revision as of 01:25, 26 January 2011 "Reverting possible vandalism by 173.3.213.34 to version by Some jerk on the Internet." that was actually done by one of the dudes at TMZ. xD Learve (talk) 07:03, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request re Jumping Jack
dane mul invented the jumping jacks, please give him credit!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dane mul (talk • contribs) 23:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * No sourcing for LaLanne "inventing" the Jumping Jack - our article says he did not, but popularized it. Provide sourcing please. Tvoz / talk 00:25, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Protection?
Maybe the article should be semi-protected until the news blows over. Seems to be attracting a lot of disruptive edits. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 05:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It's definitely flaring up, but CluebotNG has been all over most of it. Let's see if the next day is the same, then I'd say definitely.  Otherwise, there are as many people watching it as vandalising, so I'm not overly concerned about anything slipping through. Ocaasi (talk) 05:48, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * As damaging as vandalism at a highly trafficked article can be, the realization that 'Wikipedia can be edited, even when it matters' is an equally important reason not to slap the lock on it if we don't have to. Ocaasi (talk) 05:50, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree. I got a bit worried since I just reverted some that was on for 13 minutes. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 06:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I didn't see this discussion or would have commented first -apologies for that - but I have already asked for temporary semi-protection.  This is SOP for recent deaths when traffic is high and troublemakers descend. It can be damaging or at least embarrassing to have vandalism stand for as long as that.  When the flurry of interest passes, as it will, the article can be opened up for anyone to edit. But now we have an obligation to our readers, consistent with our BLP policy (which includes the recently deceased), to try to keep the article free of vandalism, cluelessness and  errors.  BLP trumps anyone-can-edit, and edit requests posted here will surely be implemented quickly if they are valid.  Tvoz / talk 09:16, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * No prob, just as well. Vandalism picked up just tonight, really, so it was 50-50 to wait it out a bit or just do protection right off.  BLP is a good enough reason. Ocaasi (talk) 10:03, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Who knew Jack would bring them out! Tvoz / talk 17:16, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I tried slapping a Recent death template on it, but that was pulled. - Denimadept (talk) 18:16, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It was up previously, but taken down once details of his death were reasonably clear. The article has been under decent and constant watch, so that template wouldn't be doing much help now anyway.  Good idea though. Ocaasi (talk) 03:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I removed it when the edit frequency was no longer within conceivable reach of those articulated in the template's documentation. Bongo  matic  04:01, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Weekly World News is unacceptable
I can't go along with using Weekly World News as a source. See exchange here - this is not in any way even close to a reliable source. The information could be accurate, who knows, but but we have to source it to something that doesn't feature UFOs and Bat Boy. If the quotes are real, then they should be available elsewhere. And if we can't find better sources, we should remove the quotes. Tvoz / talk 18:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The WWN article was a pretty straight human interest piece, the kind that even crappy tabloids regularly publish. Basically, it was an interview, and we weren't using it for any 3rd person claims at all, just the verbatim quotes from LaLanne.  That seems like an RS for this specific use in this specific context to me, though a less tawdry source would be better. Ocaasi (talk) 18:47, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I came across some material from his own books that can be used to rephrase much of the quoted material tagged. I'll work it in, but feel free to edit. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 19:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Good job on the new edit, Wikiwatcher1 - better than just a dump of quotes, and a decent source. Ocaasi - I think WWN goes beyond "crappy tabloid" - like Enquirer or Star (neither of which I'd be too inclined to use either) - WWN is a ridiculous joke, zero journalistic standards, no assurance that they actually interviewed Jack. Yes, the interview might be legitimate, but we have to do better, and Wikiwatcher1 did.  So I think we'd all agree the article is on more solid footing now.  Tvoz / talk 00:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and I'm glad I at least fixed a problem I caused. Actually, I'm even more relieved that I held off on using my aunt Gertrude as a RS! --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 01:05, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Arrest allegations
LaLanne was arrested in 1991 for drunk driving. He had used wines in his diets. As a result, he was ordered to attend meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous as well as a treatment Center for alcoholics. He had been arrested before for drunk driving. LaLanne stopped drinking altogether after his second arrest. (Source L.A. Times Newspaper.from 1991.)
 * This is sourced, but not to a specific print edition or url. Per WP:BLP negative unsourced info about living (or recently deceased) people must be removed.  This is borderline, for a variety of reasons.  If we can get a better source for it we should. Ocaasi (talk) 05:01, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, I found the original article here. But he denied it here.   Didn't find an article with a comprehensive overview. Ocaasi (talk) 05:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Leave it off unless better sourcing, more comprehensive coverage, is found. A very short AP article about an allegation and another with a denial is not enough for a BLP. Tvoz / talk 07:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Articles clearly establish that: in 1991 he was arrested for suspicion of drunk driving, BAC was only .08, he denied being drunk (said he had a few glasses of wine at a party), he pleaded no contest to a reduced charge of alcohol related reckless driving (a misdemeanor), he was sentenced to a year of probation and 8 alcohol classes. Sources:
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * I'm not sure it needs mention, but if we go that route, here's the sourcing.Ocaasi (talk) 08:07, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Well documented, but probably still trivia, IMO. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 08:34, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, not well-documented at all - these are all essentially the same one AP story. Tvoz / talk 02:25, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm leaning towards trivia as well, but slightly concerned that we not whitewash anything just to accommodate his passing. As for the research, Google News Archives with the timeline filter is a bit of a wonder. Ocaasi (talk) 08:43, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * And a note--the above references, currently numbered 5-9 are all the exact same or virtually exact same AP press report printed in different local newspapers. They do not mention his son's death, a prior or second arrest, alcoholics anonymous specifically, or quitting drinking (wine) related to this. In short, we need better sourcing for these claims.  Unrelated, I think it's notable if his son died in a drunk driving accident that we include that, simply because it was a part of LaLanne's close family life.Ocaasi (talk) 21:18, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Exactly - it's pretty much one source, and there is no followup indicating that this was a notable event for his bio. There's no whitewash at all, it's a matter of not sticking in every last detail that we can find  without regard to its actual importance to his story.  As for a son's death - where did this come from in the first place?  I don't see it anywhere, nor do I see any source saying that there was another son.  And at least one, maybe two, of the obits give current places where the three children (Dan Doyle, Jon and Yvonne)  live, and the two sons have both been in news stories the last few days.. So unless I missed something (certainly possible) I think this story may well have been made up by some editor along the way. Without reliable sourcing, we leave it out. Tvoz / talk 02:22, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I think the "deceased child" may have been Elaine's daughter from a prior marriage. Don't quote me but I seem to remember her name was something like "Janet"? I didn't read Elaine LaLanne's book of a few years ago, but it probably was mentioned there as I did read a newspaper interview with Elaine after her book came out, and that event was mentioned in the interview---about the difficulty of a parent handling the death of a child. Don't recall the circumstances of the death though, but got the impression it involved an accident of some sort.173.228.71.191 (talk) 11:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I have seen the name Janet here and there too, but haven't seen a RS that clearly defines the familial relationships and none that talks about any accident or death. The sources I've seen refer just to the three children - some say that it's Yvonne from his first marriage, Dan from hers, and Jon together.  If we can find something clear and definitive, we should fix this, but now it's all too vague. Tvoz / talk 22:28, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, I found more sourcing of the family setup and have added it. This does not, however, mean we should add the weakly sourced item about the allegation of dui against Jack - it has nothing to do with this, and is still trivia and not demonstrated to rise to any level of notability for his biography. Tvoz / talk 23:48, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Further research: Janet Elaine Doyle, birth circa 1952, died in a traffic accident in Kalamazoo, MI on May 24, 1973. Since both she & Daniel would have been minors at Jack & Elaine's 1959 marriage, & since their surnames were not changed, I think it is unlikely that they were legally adopted by Jack, though I assume (maybe incorrectly)that they mostly grew up in the LaLanne household.173.228.71.191 (talk) 02:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Deletion
Any explanation of why the article was deleted? If I were an admin, I would undelete it myself. --Uncle Ed (talk) 22:53, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It wasn't deleted, it was blanked.--Jojhutton (talk) 22:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

LaLanne's Father Did Not Die At Age 50
Don't know why Jack kept perpetuating that story, which keeps getting repeated. In Jack's latest/last "bio" book, Live Young Forever, published 2009, he's got his father dying even younger. Telling about the morning he took his father on his terminal trip to the hospital: "At the time Dad was in his early 40s, no longer the svelte dancing coach who had met my mother on the ship from France." Page 47. As an aside, on two occasions, Jack stated that his parents met at a dance in San Francisco, but I guess a shipboard romance sounds, well, more romantic. (See one SF dance story meet, amongst other stuff, "Transformation on Spaulding Avenue, The Story of Jack LaLanne in Berkeley", on-line, from a telephone interview Hal Reynolds did with Jack in March of 2009). Surprisingly, Jack states, on that same Page 47, that "I was still a senior in high school" at his father's last illness/death, though he was actually five years beyond high school graduation at that point.

Jean/John LaLanne died at age fifty-eight (58) on September 17. 1939 in San Francisco, CA. See Page 3832, CA Death Index, 1930-1939. His obituary, published the next day in The Berkeley Gazette, the city where the LaLanne family was then living at 2430 Spaulding Avenue, said he died "in a San Francisco hospital after a brief illness brought on by a heart attack". (A copy of this Gazette obituary has now been included in the LaLanne page citations). 173.228.71.191 (talk) 07:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Without some verifiable source that others could access, the cited source should be used. Of course it could be wrong about age. But it would go against guidelines and set a bad precedent to allow a user's personal knowledge override a published and verifiable source. And as mentioned, poor nutrition and heart problems are often related.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 07:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me, it's not my "personal knowledge". I think what's currently in California Vital Records overrides something in some obscure encyclopedia reference, which certinly isn't very "verifiable". The California Death Index 1930-1939 is microfilmed & available in many California Public Libraries, & is also available for viewing at "vitalsearch-ca.com,, an on-line genealogical resource site. Jean/John LaLanne died at age 58 in San Francisco, CA on 9/17/1939, just as I said, and his CA Death Certificate is         #57881.173.228.71.191 (talk) 08:27, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. Then add a link here to the online source showing the date and we can cite it and change the age.--Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 08:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There doesn't have to be an online source for it to be verifiable, but it would make it more convenient. I'm not sure we can just 'change the age' since what we have then is a dispute among reliable sources, the father and the state.  I think we'd at least have to list the discrepancy.  173, thanks for your research.  Please don't take the obstacles as an insult; it's what all claims that run up against other sources go through.  Cheers, Ocaasi (talk) 11:13, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, let's beat this horse a little more. The age 50 for Jack's father's likely first came from a Larry King interview with Jack which aired on July 17, 2000 (transcript on-line).

"LK: How much of this might be genes? How long did you father live?"

"JL: " I think about 50."

BTW, this wouldn't be a dispute between "the father and the state" anyway. The "informant" on a death certificate is usually a close family member, thus a birth date & age at death of a decedent comes not from "the state" but from them. The state only reports.

Also, see Item7, the Reitwiesner link to the LaLanne Family Genealogy. Although incomplete, it does present Extracts from the US Decennial Census, wherein John Lalanne's age in 1920 is given as "38" and his age in 1930 (when the family was living in Berkeley, CA) was given as "48". Mathematically no way could the father die in 1939 at age "50".

Personally, I think the age sentence should just be dropped and (1881-1939) put next to "Jean"'s name. But I'm not The Powers That Be.173.228.71.191 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:51, 12 February 2011 (UTC).
 * This isn't about the powers-that-be. You're making a claim which contradicts a source.  You have a lot of personal knowledge and your sources are apparently not available for easy verification online so we have to take your word for it.  Just figuring out how to do this best... please don't bring an air of offense; we're just trying to make a good determination from the information available.  There is also a concern with some of your statements that they may be close to our original research and verifiability policy; also the distinction between primary and secondary sources in WP:RS may help.  You might give them a quick read to understand the background most people are probably coming from, or provide an online link, or a secondary source which supports your claim.  Not saying this you're wrong, but that will just help with the jargon and speed things up. Ocaasi (talk) 20:54, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Birth name
Several books refer to his birthname as the LA Times obituary did - Francois Henri. Using this is original research, and we have no independent verification that it is reliable, or actually based on California birth records which still would be OR. The books I mentioned include The money doctor's guide to taking care of yourself when no-one else will (2005, W. Neil Gallagher) p. 84;  Obesity: a reference handbook (2009, Judith S. Stern, Alexandra Kazaks), p. 171;  Immigrants: Webster's Quotations, Facts and Phrases (2008), p. 465 and others. You can find these on Google books. I don't know what the truth is, but these are verifiable sources, and I think we have to go with them unless other reliable sources are found that address this assertion as invalid. Tvoz / talk 22:34, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I personally find it extremely odd that Jack's parents would revert to such a "French" name in 1914 after both living in the US/CA since childhood & naming their first two sons Ervil & Norman. Even Jean LaLanne applied for his SF marriage license to Jennie Garaig in Feb. 1906 as "John Lalanne, Jr." & apparently dropped "Jean" pretty early on. But, no, I have nothing "concrete" to go on. 173.228.71.191 (talk) 19:33, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Where Did The "Francois Henri" Name originally come from?
It isn't mentioned in Jack's bio on his own website & I've never run across him stating this in interviews. His Wikipedia page says he was "nicknamed" Jack by his brother,Norman, but, in fact, his current 1914 CA birth record already gives him the name of "Jack". In order to make such a major name change on a CA vital record, he would have had to go through a legal process to amend his birth certificate. All the "evidence" currently presented seems rather circular and fairly recent. Any comments? 173.228.71.191 (talk) 16:38, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

LaLanne's SF KGO TV Exercise Program started in 1953 rather than 1951.
I scrolled through the SF Chronicle microfilmed archives at the Oakland Public Library recently to try to get an exact starting date for Jack's local TV exercise program. As it turned out, the first time the LaLanne exercise program showed up in the entertainment page schedule for the then three SF TV Channels was at KGO/morning on Monday, Sept. 28, 1953, with a 15 minute segment at 9:45 a.m. Before that, there's no mention of his program in their schedule. He may have appeared as a guest on a KGO talk show earlier,but there's absolutely no evidence for an origination year of 1951 for his exercise program. 173.228.71.128 (talk) 07:51, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Jack Lalanne Article
Gentlemen, I have read your article on Jack LaLanne.

At sometime during his later life and career, I caught part of a NPR program on a unknown-to-me or unidentified public radio station. (This was being "aired" or broadcast only a year or two ago.)

Jack Lalanne was being interviewed either "live" or by the replay of a pre-recorded program that his business office may have supplied to the radio station. As part of the interview, Jack was talking about information that was part of a pledge gift; in part, information on specific exercises and exercise techniques, which he referred to as his "papers". He explained these papers were so clear and the topic so detailed that anyone receiving the pledge gift could achieve the stated results. He and the radio interviewer wanted to make the topic of these "training papers" totally clear to the listening public, so the interviewer specifically asked Jack about his "complete functionality", which he confirmed.

I got the impression that part of the pledge gift was a tape or CD, part was one of his many published books, and part was these special "papers", which might have been a photocopied pamphlet of his personal workout journal or some handwritten or hand typed information that he had prepared for the older men in the pledging audience.

At some time much later I contacted jackklalanne.com by telephone, inquiring about the aired interview and the papers. The woman answering the telephone answered that she personally had no knowledge of this written material or the "pledge/gift radio program" which I felt Jack Lalanne's company may have offered to NPR stations across the country. She said she would question Jack's son (who now was running the family business) when he came into the office. Several days later I called back, she said she had mentioned it to the son, and that he had suggested I buy a couple of books they have for sale. The suggested books had nothing on these specific topics.

I am looking for specific information that would lead me to information on the aired interview and the pledge offering, and sources for this material. It also would be a valuable one or two sentence addition to your article on Jack's life, namely that his career expanded into work with NPR and that there is or was specific information on personal training logs. jangle2@neo.rr.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.142.19 (talk) 18:16, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Oooh, and maybe a Magical Wizard can deliver this information to you, since someone (or something) of such a caliber would be needed seeing as you've: A.) Left no identifying information with which to contact you and, (and this is the real bugger here): B.) The last time I checked, this wasn't some kind of Q&A site ala AskMetafilter or (Yahoo Answers, if you're feeling particularly handicapped in the brain). Maybe go elsewhere, bubba? 76.183.68.180 (talk) 22:07, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

His posing for nude photos not mentioned
It deserves at least a brief mention in passing somewhere. Afterall, Schwarzenegger's nude photos are mentioned in his article. {link to site with pornography in content advertising removed. note: there are nude photos of LaLanne, done in a non-sexual style. User:Ocaasic 18:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC)} —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.30.148.108 (talk) 14:55, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * {unconstructive comment removed, thread renamed User:Ocaasic 18:30, 2 June 2011 (UTC)}
 * Biographies of living people require high quality sources, especially for controversial information. If you have such a source, it can be considered.  A blog is a self-published source, so it is not considered reliable. User:Ocaasic 18:30, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

In the Nov. 23, 1981 issue of Sports Illustrated, which features a lengthy interview with LaLanne, he stated that in order to get money for his family after his father died, he posed nude for art classes around the area. No mention made of photographs though. The "SI Vault-LaLanne" is on-line, & also has an earlier interview with LaLanne from 1960, presumably about the time his TV exercise program went "national".173.228.71.128 (talk) 00:57, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

He not only appears in pictures published in Physique Pictorial, he also was interviewed in the film Beefcake (1999) where he described his modelling career and how that was the jumping-off point for his career in fitness. In any case, WP:BLP does not apply anymore since he is dead. Cleduc (talk) 17:21, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Set his parents' house on fire?
From imdb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0482364/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1):

"LaLanne was addicted to sugar as a child, causing him to commit acts of violence, including setting his parents' house on fire and attacking his brother with an axe. He was so weak his family physician recommended he be removed from school to rest and regain his strength."

Is there any truth to this story?

If so, is there a good reference for it, and where would it fit into the page?

Paul Brannan (talk) 15:40, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh Dear, I See I Ruffled Some Feathers....
Here with the actual information on the early days of Jack LaLanne in Berkeley. Doesn't surprise me that my research ("original" only that I seem to be the only one around here who DIDN'T swallow Jack's line(s) hook, line & sinker---shades of Paul Bragg) has been wiped out even though I cited all newspaper dates.

As far as the 1952 IronMan Magazine article on Jack LaLanne, if you hurry, it's NOW offered for sale on EBay, so you can see the photos & read the text yourself (if you blow it up, it's quite readable), and it's quite obvious that the "story" of Paul Bragg literally saving Jack's life is very much missing. Now why is that?? ("Vintage Rare Ironman John Grimek Jack LaLanne 2-52" EBay.)

Although I don't currently have ALL the Berkeley Gazette newspapers I cited in front of me (though I will be happy to do so if asked) I will cite one in relevant (the article is actually about 6 times longer) detail: "Bears, Berkeley "Y" Lead in P.A. Wrestling Meet", Berkeley Daily Gazette, Friday Evening April 25, 1930, to wit:

"After a full evening of pulling, hauling and mauling, the University of California and Berkeley Y.M.C.A. finished one-two in the Pacific Association wrestling championships staged at the Olympic Club in San Francisco last night....George Sarsaki of U.C. won his 112-pound match by default, and was defeated by Aujila in the finals of the 119-pound class. Nomura of California lost his first match in the 126-134 pound class, while LALANNE (emphasis added) of the Berkeley Y.M.C.A. reached the finals in the same division."

Hope that wasn't too boring, but note that Jack was already doing some class amateur wrestling---not to mention all his other sports activities---five months BEFORE Paul Bragg first showed up on the stage of the Oakland Women's City Club Theater. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.71.128 (talk) 06:07, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Was the Bragg/LaLanne Meet-Up Story True?
In various interviews over the years, Jack LaLanne credited Paul Bragg to his health turnaround at age 15 to a lecture of Bragg's he claimed he attended at the Oakland [CA] Women's City Club. He also claimed at that time to have been a sickly, underweight boy (30 pounds underweight according to his Larry King TV interview in the 1990ties), poor eyesight, had to wear a back brace, etc., etc. In a 1975 People Magazine photo/text article on Paul Bragg, Jack went so far as to state that he would have been dead by age 16 if not for Paul Bragg.

However, the Berkeley Daily Gazette, the newspaper in the city where Jack lived from 1928 to about 1940, was recently digitized, so a name search on him is easily done. This name search turns up some interesting early history on Jack in Berkeley, which PREDATES Paul Bragg's FIRST Oakland lecture series, which ran for 7 nights at the Women's City Club Theater, in October of 1930. (Bragg returned to the same Oakland venue for 7 nights of health lectures in 1932, 1934, and 1935, and then when that Women's Club lost ownership of their building in the midst of the Great Depression, to another Oakland women's club for lectures of a shorter duration---from 2 to 3 nights---in 1941, 1942 and 1943 per paid advertisements in the Oakland Tribune in those years.)

For example, in the spring of 1930, Jack was a player/manager on a baseball team in the Berkeley Boys Baseball League, comprised of 12 teams & sponsored by Berkeley merchants. (Jack's team was sponsored by the Frank Berger Funeral Home per Berkeley Gazette, April 8, 1930 at page 11, & played under the name of the "Berger Argonauts"). In one particular game against a Livermore, CA boys' team, he's credited with pitching the last 3 innings of a shut-out game. (Berkeley Gazette, June 23, 1930, at page 7). On May 26, 1930, the Berkeley Gazette, at page 9, reported that Jack came in third (in the 130# weight class) in the 12# shot-put event in an all-day Saturday track & field meet called the "Californiaid Track Fest", pitting about a dozen San Francisco Bay Area YMCA's against each other (he may have participated in other events, but the Berkeley Gazette only named 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th placers in their coverage), OR Jack may have been multitasking that day as in one column over, same day, same page, same newspaper, he was reported in a practice baseball game that same Saturday where boys were being picked for the possibility of playing on a team in a Jr. National Baseball game in Michigan later that year, apparently sponsored by the American Legion. And both the Berkeley Gazette & the San Francisco Chronicle reported him representing the Berkeley YMCA in the Pacific Association Wrestling Meet at the Olympic Club in San Francisco (in the 126-134# Class), where he went to the finals, but lost his last match (Berkeley Gazette, April 25, 1930). All of the above, when Jack LaLanne would have been age 15, and certainly not underweight for his short height (5'6" in adulthood) & age, nor was he seemingly particularly unhealthy.173.228.71.128 (talk) 23:43, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

And the other thing that makes me question the veracity of Jack's oft-repeated story of the Paul/Jack meet-up is a photo/article entitled "Jack La Lanne Champion of Endurance" by David Martin, published in the February 1952 issue of "Ironman", the bodybuilding magazine. There is this statement as part of its first paragraph: "At 14 years of age Jack weighed only 90 pounds and was very sickly and weak. Being in such poor health, Jack started on an extensive study of diet and health. Books occupied his time and he read everything he could lay his hands upon that pertained to diet and health.  After about a year or more of practicing proper eating and living there was such an improvement in Jack's health that he had a great incentive to develop his body physically, such was the inspiration. Today, Jack has practically developed his physical powers to their limits." You will note that when you go back in time to 1952, there is a definite absence of the Paul Bragg "angle" since neither he nor his Oakland Women's City Club lecture, with Jack's amazing "overnight conversion" story, are even mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.71.128 (talk) 19:35, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

BTW, if you search online for an article entitled "Jack LaLanne-A Berkely(Not Oakland) Original", published by a successor newspaper to the Gazette after Jack's death, you'll see a high school yearbook picture for him, a current photo of his family's Berkeley house, as well as Paul Bragg's newspaper advertisement for his October 1930 Oakland lecture series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.71.128 (talk) 08:23, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * "Truth" is not the issue. Anyway, with hindsight after 80 years of a young person going to a lecture, some good faith exaggeration is possible. --Light show (talk) 06:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Well I see the Nazi book-burning brigade has shown up...
and all very well cited & verifiable references have been removed. I thought Wikipedia was supposed to be an On-Line Encyclopedia rather than a Jack LaLanne Fan Club. What a joke...173.228.71.128 (talk) 16:59, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Quoting wp:synth: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources". That's what you were doing, and that was the problem. The sources you provided did not explicitly state that Jack's claims of being underweight, sickly, etc. were in dispute. That was your conclusion, not that of a published reliable secondary source. Thus, it was original research.--2600:1003:B104:148:2A53:E162:B8B9:CCFA (talk) 20:18, 5 May 2014 (UTC)


 * ^I wish I had quoted that sentence from WP:SYNTH when I reverted the material in question a while back. It might have made the rationale for doing so a lot clearer. I also wish I had seen the thread immediately above this one when it first posted, as I would have addressed it then, and hopefully would have assuaged any ensuing "controversy". Be assured the reversion had nothing to do with "ruffled feathers" or a whitewashing effort to protect LaLanne's reputation. To expand on the IP user's reply above, it seems the part of WP's policy prohibiting original research that many seem to overlook or fail to understand is "Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources themselves", as well as "Source material should be carefully summarized or rephrased without changing its meaning or implication. Take care not to go beyond what is expressed in the sources, or to use them in ways inconsistent with the intention of the source..." (emphasis mine). Simply put, in case it is not already clear, anything that is stated or asserted in the text of an article must also be clearly and explicitly stated or asserted in the sources that support the content. A statement to the effect of "there is question as to the credibility of LaLanne's claims...." cannot be made in the article's mainspace if there are no reliable independent sources that precisely state that very assertion. It does not suffice to infer, or "connect the dots", from various sources (even if examination of those sources seemingly gives credence to what is being inferred or implied.) Wikipedia, being a self-defined tertiary source requires that it be stated clearly and unambigously in reliable sources before it can be stated in its mainspace.


 * FWIW, I did a google search on "Jack LaLanne Paul Bragg" (and in Google Books as well) and could not find anything which clearly questioned or disputed the authenticity of LaLane's version of the Paul Bragg story. If there are such sources to be found, or if you can get your research published in the mainspace of a reliable independent source, then by all means edit the article to include it (provided, of course, it is done in a manner compliant with WP's policies on neutrality and due weight). While I can't speak for those who reverted your (presumably good faith) subsequent efforts to inject your research into the article, it is doubtful that there would be any strong objection to such changes if properly sourced in accordance with the guidelines I've spelled out here.


 * One more thing. For future reference, please be observant of WP's policy of assuming good faith on the part of editors who make changes you disagree with. It would be far more productive and useful to civilly ask for further explanation of the changes than it would be to draw conclusions about the motives of the editors and toss around aspersions about "nazi book burning" and the like. Hope this was helpful in clearing up any and all misunderstanding.--JayJasper (talk) 16:42, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Doctor of Chiropractic?
Is only in the info box. This should be removed or modified if it cannot be verified.1archie99 (talk) 19:56, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I see we now have info on this in the article; could still use a citation.1archie99 (talk) 03:54, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Still a question as to whether LaLanne was a chiropractic college graduate. Although his Wikipedia page currently states that he graduated from such college in San Francisco, if you refer to "Chronology of California Chiropractic College/Oakland AKA Oakland Chiropractic College" on-line, Dr. Joseph C. Keating, who was a chiropractic historian (& has his own Wikipedia page) states that "Jack LaLanne graduates with DC from Oakland Chiropractic College in 1938 or 1939"; however, Dr. Keating, who died in 2007, also includes the caveat that this information may not be correct....his source, which appears to be something less than official given the caveat, is not given. I find it strange that any other professional can easily, with perhaps a little hunting, give the exact date of their certificate or degree and/or passing professional Boards but, so far, this vagueness remains with LaLanne's story about being a DC.173.228.71.128 (talk) 04:18, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

BTW I checked Vol. 3, pages 81-83, of the St. James Encyclopedia of Popular Culture (the Oakland, CA Public Library has all 5 volumes in its Reference stack) which seems to be the Wikipedia "citation" No. 11 for LaLanne attaining a Doctor of Chiropractor Degree, and found the citation to be partially correctly "copied" & partally doctored on LaLanne's Wikipedia page. Following is what actually states in the "St. James version" and, in brackets, what does not: "He went back to school, made the high school football team, went on to college [and later went on to college in San Francisco where he earned a Doctor of Chiropractic Degree] where he studied to be a chiropractor.  [He studied Henry Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body and concentrated on body building and weightlifting].  Nowhere does Tina Gianoulis, the contributor to the the essay on LaLanne in this cited Encyclopedia, cite any hard evidence of LaLanne attending even one day of "Chiropractic College".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.71.128 (talk) 16:00, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Jack Claimed He Started in Bodybuilding...
at age 13---at least that's what he told George F. Redmond, who wrote a column called On The Sports Front for the Twin Falls (Idaho) Times News on February 25, 1944, when Jack was serving as a Pharmacist Mate First Class at the local Sun Valley Naval Convalescent Hospital. To quote: "LaLanne started in the weight lifting business on himself when he was 13 years of age and found it so beneficial that he took it up as a career...", and the article goes on to mention his two Oakland, CA gyms. Again, no mention of any poor health nor Paul Bragg lecture. I'm guessing that if Jack had a "mentor", it would rather have been Charles Atlas, the former "97 pound weakling", who was getting extremely well-known with boys & men circa 1928 with his body-building course---just about the time Jack says he took up the "sport". 173.228.71.128 (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.71.128 (talk) 21:54, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Jack LaLanne. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090113113758/http://www.nationalfitnessorganization.com:80/inductees2005.html to http://www.nationalfitnessorganization.com/inductees2005.html

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Now where is some evidence that LaLanne's "Education" was at "Marymount University"....
as currently stated on his Wikipedia page? Along with the still-questionable claim that he earned a Doctorate in Chiropractic, I can't find anything in his history indicating that he attended any post-high school educational institutions. His mother, who was interviewed for the family in April 1940 for that year's Federal Census, stated that the highest education Jack attained at that point was 4 years of high school. Jack would have been 26 years old in Sept. of 1940. The only Marymount I can find in California is in the Los Angeles area. Should this "information" be deleted? 173.228.71.128 (talk) 19:44, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Light show (talk) 21:58, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Was LaLanne Ever a "Mr. America" as he claimed?
A citation was recently added to Jack's Wikipedia page at #23 covering an interview done by Janice & Dennis Hughes with Jack done in 2003. In that interview Jack makes the following statement: "I was a strict vegetarian.  Then I decided to enter a Mr. America contest (which I won)....". However, Wikipedia's own page on the AAU Mr. America contest, which describes it as a bodybuilding competition started by the Amateur Athletic Union circa 1938, gives the names of the winners for each year forward, and LaLanne does not show up as the winner in any year. More interesting, the web site "Muscle Memory AAU Mr. America", gives BOTH the winner and contestants' names (the latter listed apparently by their ranking in the contest) by year, and LaLanne's name does not show up anywhere that I can see as either a winner or entrant in any Mr. America contest. Comments??173.228.71.128 (talk) 18:14, 7 September 2014 (UTC)


 * It is certainly difficult to verify this particular claim. The Muscle Memory site lists him as being in the Mr. USA contest in 1948, but not placing, and then placing 2nd in the Pro Mr. America contest in 1954. Source: http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=LaLanne,+Jack


 * Maybe he was using the expression "a Mr. America contest" as a generic term for a bodybuilding competition. Similarly, I heard an interview with Jack LaLanne in which he made some reference to "back when I was competing in Mr. America, Mr. Universe." But from what I can tell, it looks that he was never actually in any of the contests that used the moniker "Mr. Universe." Maybe he was just lumping all of those contests together. It's difficult to tell when he is the only source of those statements.


 * TheManFromTaco (talk) 23:07, 24 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I was quite surprised to find that LaLanne rarely entered body-building competitions. Guess one just "assumes" that he did.  I know that he was quite given to use hyperbole (to put it more gently) in his life's back-stories in public utterances & books.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.177.253 (talk) 13:54, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Jack LaLanne. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110127015537/http://www.life.com:80/image/first/in-gallery/54851/life-remembers-jack-lalanne to http://www.life.com/image/first/in-gallery/54851/life-remembers-jack-lalanne#index/0

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