Talk:Jack Larson

Fair use rationale for Image:LarsonNimoyKidMonkBaroni1952.jpg
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Gay actor
I removed the Gay Actor and LGBT categories for now. If someone can source the information and add it to the article, the categories should be added back. —scarecroe 19:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's well-known. Note the term "life partner" in reference to his deceased (male) life partner. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not doubting it. I'm just saying that the information needs to be sourced. —scarecroe 00:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What, specifically? The term "life-partner"? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Added ref - you can see the page of the book here. Added the cats and WP banner back in. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  22:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Birth year
I'm not comfortable with the idea of searching through records to establish a birth year, especially when we do it to contradict the person's own testimony. How do we know that this particular Jack Larson is the Jack Larson of the article? Aren't we doing original research at this point? Plenty of actors shave years off their ages, sure, but the bulk of his career is long since past and I don't see why he'd bother. Gamaliel (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Citing public records is no different than citing a book or newspaper article (except that the records are more likely to be accurate). We don't merely thumb through the records and find someone with a similar name and say "That's him!"  Larson has done any number of interviews in which he mentions his upbringing, his heritage, his birthplace, his hometown.  When a public record shows up that matches ALL of these things, but has a five-year birth year discrepancy (the DAY still matches, though), and the person is an actor, an occupation known to promote such age-shaving, AND the public records show NO match for those other factors in the alleged birth year, it's not original research to cite the record.  Original research would be me calling him up and asking him.  Books, articles, public records, these are EXAMPLES of proper WP citing.  In this case, the date in the public records has been confirmed to me by the person himself.  But I didn't say that, because that would be original research.  Instead, I backtracked and found citable evidence to support the statement.  That's how WP is supposed to work. Monkeyzpop (talk) 21:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Why have you removed the link to the interview twice? You could have easily used it to reference the language that you added about his "claim" or placed it in external links. Gamaliel (talk) 22:26, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I've removed my earlier comments and I've decided to take this to the noticeboard. This is an unusual situation and I'd like some opinions from people who deal with these sorts of issues regularly. Gamaliel (talk) 22:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * In response to your question (which you've since removed), Larson spoke of his family home, his mother's maiden name, etc. in a number of interviews, including in editions of the magazine The Adventures Continue. (He also spoke of those things to me, as well as confirming the 1928 date, but let's not count that, because it's original research.)  Those details match up with the census and California birth records.  I doubt there were two Jack Edward Larsons born on February 8 in Los Angeles to Russian mothers formerly named Calcoff and Swedish oil-field worker fathers named George, both living on S. Vancouver Ave. in Montebello, California in 1930, especially if one of them wasn't born till 1933 (even though California birth records show NO Jack Larson being born in 1933.)  Yet those details are in various interviews and articles, and they match up ONLY with the Jack Edward Larson born in 1928.  So leaving aside what he told me entirely, every bit of this information is citable, and the California birth records and census records are a legitimate synthesis and primary source.  If citations from birth records, the census, military records, etc. are to be excluded from WP citation while the claims of actors in interviews are to be taken at face value, then we need to go through WP and change Randolph Scott's birth from 1898 to 1903, Don Adams's from 1923 to 1928, and lop off five years from virtually every actress ever born, since that's what they said in interviews.  I don't think you're really suggesting that.  Hope we can resolve this.  Thanks. Monkeyzpop (talk) 23:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * If he mentioned the 1928 birth year in a magazine interview, we could cite that and that would be more than enough to end the matter as far as I'm concerned. Gamaliel (talk) 23:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * P.S. I reverted your citation because it was used to support the 1933 birth record. I agree it could be used as a cite for Larson's public statements.  And can you point me to the noticeboard where you've taken the conversation, so that I can read or join in?  Thanks.  Monkeyzpop (talk) 23:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The interview surely must be of interest in regards to other aspects of Larson's life as well, so I ask that you restore the link in some fashion. The noticeboard is here; I would have posted a link earlier but I assumed you knew what I was referring to, sorry. Gamaliel (talk) 23:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I fail to see why a magazine interview is a better cite than a series of mutually supporting government records. As I see it, there's already an excellent primary source citation.  Why replace it with a secondary source citation? Monkeyzpop (talk) 23:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not comfortable as a manner of principle with contradicting the testimony of living individuals by using the personal research of WP editors into birth records. (In this case, yes, the records are affirmed by subject, but they would not be in every case, so the principle remains.) Even if such research is not strictly prohibited by WP:OR, there is too much potential for error in amateur research and it should not be used to back up article content, especially in regards to living individuals, and most especially amateur research should not be used to contradict the testimony of an individual about his own life.  As a matter of course, Wikipedia relies on secondary sources and not primary ones, and we shouldn't deviate from that, even though I know it is frustrating not to be able to do so when we have personal knowledge of a particular subject. Gamaliel (talk) 23:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Jack Larson's writings
In 1968 I enjoyed greatly my experience as lighting designer for a run of Jack Larson's play, "Cherry, Larry, Sandy, Doris, Jean, Paul". The play is written in verse. The eight person cast included Alix Elias & the scripts opening page states: "These are all young Americans in their early twenties, each more attractive than the other". The story takes place in a London boarding house. It was performed at the Loft Theater (the third floor above the Andy Warhol Theater on Bleeker St. in NYC; now gone). What else has Mr. Larson written over the years? Noellevan (talk) 22:06, 13 February 2011 (UTC)