Talk:Jack London (businessman)

Copyright violations
This article looks largely edited from this copyrighted source. --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:41, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

COI
The editor who was repeatedly inserting inappropriate material states that he is working on the subject's behalf in this edit. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:42, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
 * has now stated that:
 * He works for London's company
 * He is intentionally copying portions of the official bio (which, I will note, the company claims copyright to and has not gone through any channels to waive or license it)
 * That the "official bio" is the reference
 * Given that multiple editors have been deleting this material this year (including and, with  tagging the material for its problems), he clearly does not have consensus for its inclusion. I am returning the article to its stub form (I don't have time at the moment to do a full WP:BEFORE to see if perhaps it should just be deleted). Editors should achieve consensus here before readding any of this material; editors with a WP:COI should avoid editing the article directly at all, but are encouraged to suggest changes on this talk page, and are encouraged to find sources that meet Wikipedia standards for reliability before suggesting material that would appear boastful, or to support a point of view, or otherwise be dubious. --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:33, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Article ownership
A user has requested ownership of this article and had that request shot down at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard, where his problematic inclusion of copyrighted material was also noted. That editor, with his stated conflict of interest, is certainly welcome to try to engage in discussion regarding the editing of this article here on the talk page; however, he should avoid editing the article himself due to his conflict and should certainly avoid reinserting the material that has already been recognized as problematic. --Nat Gertler (talk) 21:51, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Edit request
Proposed changes to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_London_(businessman)(changes are in addition to the content that already exists on the page).--Marketing Writer (talk) 20:05, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The awards list at the very least will need to be carefully reviewed. Some of the local awards may be just too minor to include, and some of the awards are problematically sourced to what turn out to be articles regurgitating CACI press releases, such as this one and this one. --Nat Gertler (talk) 00:09, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Life is full, so I'm handling this a bit at a time. I've now checked and added the "Career" section. --Nat Gertler (talk) 01:08, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Requesting review of the additional proposed content below (education, active boards, and awards and recognition) to ensure it meets Wikipedia's guidelines and can be published. Marketing Writer (talk) 21:39, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Career
London served as the Chief Executive Officer and President of CACI International Inc from 1984 to July 1, 2007. He served as President of U.S. Operations at CACI International Inc from November 1, 2004 to August 2005, Executive Vice President from 1979 to 1982, Senior Vice President from 1977 to 1979 and Vice President from 1975 to 1977. --Marketing Writer (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Publications
London is the lead author of:
 * Our Good Name, A Company’s Fight to Get the Truth Told About Abu Ghraib (Regenery, 2008)
 * Character: The Ultimate Success Factor (Fortis, 2013)

--Marketing Writer (talk) 20:19, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Should probably be rephrased to "lead author", as Our Good Name (ISBN 1596985399) is cover-credited to "J. PHILIP LONDON and the CACI Team" (he is the Marky Mark to their Funky Bunch!) and Character (ISBN 1937592383 ) is "Dr. J. Philip London with Z. Selin Hur and Dr. Jennifer Burkhart London". --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:46, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've now added this information as a "Books" section, but reformatted to avoid having a list, which is both unneeded for two items and would likely be reworked as the section was expanded with descriptions of and reactions to the books. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:26, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Requesting review of the Education, Active boards, and Awards and recognition sections. Marketing Writer (talk) 15:18, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Education
London holds a Bachelor’s degree in Engineering from the United States Naval Academy in 1959, a Master’s degree in Operations Research from the Naval Postgraduate School in 1967, and a Doctorate degree in Business Administration from the George Washington University in 1971. --Marketing Writer (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Marketing Writer (talk) 22:04, 3 January 2017 (UTC) Edit request made on 1/3/17 is for Active boards section. Marketing Writer (talk) 13:49, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Active boards
--Marketing Writer (talk) 20:20, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Friends of the National World War II Memorial Board
 * U.S. Navy Memorial Foundation Board
 * Naval Historical Foundation Board
 * CAUSE Board of Directors

Awards and recognition

 * 2016 Northern Virginia Chamber of Commerce Lifetime Distinguished Service Award
 * 2016 New York Council, Navy League of the United States Leadership in Technology Award
 * TechAmerica 2014 award
 * 2014 Semper Fidelis Award, Marine Corps Scholarship Foundation
 * 2013 Admiral of the Navy George Dewey Award, Naval Order of the United States
 * 2013 Ellis Island Medal of Honor, National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations
 * 2013 Nathan Hale Award, Reserve Officers Association of the United States
 * 2012 Greater Washington Government Contractor Awards Hall of Fame
 * 2011 U.S. Naval Postgraduate School Hall of Fame
 * 2011 Arlington (Virginia) Business Hall of Fame
 * 2010 Washington Business Hall of Fame Laureate
 * 2007 Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz Award, Navy League of the United States
 * 2005 Executive of the Year (Co-Winner), Third Annual Greater Washington Government Contractor Awards
 * 2004 Technology Executive of the Year Awards, Arlington, Virginia Chamber of Commerce
 * 2004 Eagle Awards and Federal Computer Week’s “Federal 100” List of IT Leaders
 * 2003 CEO of the Year Award, George Washington University Executive MBA Program
 * 1996 Alumni Achievement Award, George Washington University
 * 1995 High Tech Entrepreneur Award, KPMG Peat Marwick
 * 1987 Alumni of the Year Award, George Washington University’s School of Government and Business Administration

--Marketing Writer (talk) 20:05, 22 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Marketing Writer, what would be most helpful would be independently-sourced content about what he actually did that makes him notable.  Narrative.  I don't know any experienced editor who would be happy to add the laundry lists of awards to this article.  And minor/local awards like " CEO of the Year Award, George Washington University Executive MBA Program" really feel like padding; they kind of demean the subject rather than making the subject seem great.   (also if the only source for an award is a press release from the organization that gave it - as in that example - it is a good sign that the award isn't worth mentioning in WP) Jytdog (talk) 19:15, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have gone ahead and added the Education section, as it's non-boastful material. However, Jytdog is right; the awards list is full of "favorite member of our little club"-style awards, and it makes the whole thing look like water'y soup. Better to trim it down to a few notable awards - national-level type things. --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Marked the request as partially fulfilled, as per the comments above. Regards, VB00 (talk) 07:53, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Vast degradation of the article
The edit by has vastly degraded the quality of the article, removing sourced material, adding unsourced material, promotional phrasing, and bad formatting. Just looking at the first sentence, we see:


 * The addition of "Dr." ahead of the subjects name in violation of MOS:CREDENTIAL.
 * The addition of an unsourced date of birth.
 * The removal of a sourced date of death.
 * An unsourced and unneeded claim of notability
 * The addition of unsourced financial and employment data about the company, detail which would not reach to a first-sentence level of import even if it was sourced
 * WP:SOLUTIONS
 * Capitalization counter to MOS:JOBTITLE

...and that's just one sentence. The rest of this new version is filled with entire new sections lacking source ("Military career" -- no, wait, "Military Career", because all of the sections now violate MOS:HEADINGS for capitalization), unsourced awards, or awards sourced only to non-third party sources so of dubious import, including the sort of local award we generally do without (and which had previously been discussed on this page), a random and generally unsourced list of clubs he was a member of as if that's important, and so on.

There is such a heavy layer of WP:PROMO in this new version of the article including not just what in it adds ("Dr. London was known as a visionary entrepreneur, a thought leader and a leading expert on business ethics") but also in what it removes (a sourced description of the topic of the book in which London was addressing claims against the company in regards to Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse), that it is hard to believe it could be unintentional. (We are dealing with a new WP:SPA editor who seems eager to make large changes here, which leaves the scent of a possible conflict of interest.)

, you've seen fit to revert what was largely these changes before. Could you review them again and address them appropriately? Even if there is anything worth saving in the new version, it seems more efficient to restore the old revision and add anything of true value than to try to scrape all that's wrong out of the new version. (I'm trying to maintain a retirement from article space editing, or I'd do it myself.) --Nat Gertler (talk) 04:28, 27 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes I agree and have reverted.


 * Thank you for adding some sources, however as Nat has noted that there are still a lot of problems. In addition to those, the "Early Life and Education" section was cited to this Bloomberg profile but much of the information cannot be verified from that source. For example you added graduated in 1959 in top quartile of his class with a B.S. degree in engineering but the source says nothing about this. The military career is completely unsourced. It would appear possible that you have a conflict of interest in relation to the subject given that you know these minutae of his life that do not appear to be present in any published sources. Please note that Wikipedia is not a memorial and we cannot publish information that has not already been published in reliable sources. SmartSE (talk) 14:49, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Notability
Given the wouldn't-clear-notability version that the (now blocked) creator of this page left us with, and given the probably-wouldn't-pass-notability current version, and not withstanding the repeated descent of CACI's paid marketing folks on this page, how sure are we that this guy passes our notability standards for biographies? There's that laundry list of awards on the now-undone revisions, but many of those clearly are insufficient; others, I have no idea if they are recognized as meaningful or if they are mere cotton candy given to corporate presidents to thank them for taking some of the money in the military budget. --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)


 * This is just from a very quick search, but does seem to indicate that BIO is met in my opinion:  . SmartSE (talk) 17:16, 28 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't have the subscription to see the first of those, but the third is churnalism, largely a reworking of this press release. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:11, 28 September 2022 (UTC)