Talk:Jack Shea (speed skater)

Drunk driver killed 'em - what's the BLP issue?
So, I'm a bit confused--there seems to be an ongoing edit war over including the statement that Shea was killed in a collision with a drunk driver. It seems to me that there are at least two sources indicating that the driver involved was intoxicated: ESPN, and North Country Gazette.

I have trouble seeing where BLP comes into play here. Jack Shea was killed by a drunk driver; this statement does not reflect badly on Shea, and has the added appeal of being true. If the BLP concern is being argued on behalf of the drunk driver, there are a number of mitigating factors. First, the driver's name (Herbert J. Reynolds) is not mentioned in our article. Second, his blood tested way over the legal limit (His BAC was 0.15%); this evidence was suppressed at trial through a quirk in New York law that (I gather) has since been closed. Third, it's both true and undisputed. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It was alleged that the driver of the other car was intoxicated with a BAC of .15% ... not proven. Since the evidence was thrown out it could not be proven. As far as New York State was concerned, and they are the only ones that mattered ... Mr. Reynolds was NOT intoxicated. AFAIK, BLP does not matter when discussing an article about a D-E-A-D person. Duke53  | Talk 03:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought you were edit warring to include this point, not throw it out of the article. That the evidence was inadmissible in a New York criminal court proceeding does not seem to make it any less probative.  Are you playing devil's advocate here, or what?  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 12:26, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I am trying to get the following statement changed: "Jack was killed in a head-on automobile collision with a drunk driver just before his grandson won gold." The other driver (who may be aware of this article might not like being labeled as a 'drunk driver', when in fact it wasn't proved in this incident. I don't know about your idea of 'probative' but New York's Supreme Court seems to disagree with you. Duke53  | Talk 22:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

This is a discussion from some time back, but it might be worth mentioning that he was on foot when he was hit by a car? Also, a newsbreak related to the story, the man who hit him, as of today, has two felony charges against him for bombmaking. http://www.pressrepublican.com/homepage/local_story_297053016.html Cs302b 15:01, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, the New York Supreme Court (Appellate Division, Third Judicial Department) seems to agree that his BAC was 0.15%; it's in their slip opinion linked above. He was drunk, and he was driving&mdash;hence he was a drunk driver.  Those facts don't seem to be in dispute.  (It's worth noting that no country that has established a BAC threshold for presumed intoxication has set a limit higher than 0.1%.)
 * He was not convicted of the criminal offense for which he was charged: "driving while intoxicated". (The blood alcohol test was ruled inadmissable based on a quirk of New York law – since corrected – which required specifically that a blood sample be drawn under the supervision and direction of a physician; in this particular case the blood draw was supervised by a physician assistant instead.)  Were we to say something like "Jack Shea was killed in a collision with another driver who was DWI", it would be technically and factually incorrect&mdash;he was not convicted of that specific offense. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

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