Talk:Jack Sparrow/Archive 2

Rewrite of article
I would like to inform editors of the article I have rewritten the article in my sandbox, and after being copyedited, it shall replace the current turgid version. It is closely modelled on the FA articles Palpatine, Jabba the Hutt and Padme Amidala. Alientraveller 19:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The task is done. Alientraveller 18:22, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Nice work; it is clearly better than the original we all have been trying to tame. -Elizabeth (BlackPearl14 23:22, 20 June 2007 (UTC))

Talk Deletion
I am curious; why is it that ALL of the Talk articles are removed? I'm sorry, yes I've been with Wikipedia for a while under the name of Gargoyle123 but I still didn't know that you could delete articles in Talk unless they are like "forum", erm, stuff. BlackPearl14 03:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Archived. Alientraveller 07:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Got it BlackPearl14 01:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Video game references
Why is it that all of the references to Jack's appearances in POTC videogames was removed (and yet obscure appearances/references in games like Fable are mentioned?) Tempobabempo 22:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Read Tie-ins before you start mouthing off. Alientraveller 07:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

First of all, I'm not sure that my comment above could be considered "mouthing off", but yes, you're right, I missed the tie-ins section. Second of all, the information in tie-ins states that Johnny Depp provided the voice of Jack Sparrow for all the video games other than Kingdom Hearts. This is incorrect. Johnny Depp only provided the voice for the Legend of Jack Sparrow game. Jared Butler voices Jack Sparrow in all the new World's End games. Tempobabempo 13:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I waited a week and then went ahead and made the changes myself. Tempobabempo 18:14, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide a source? Because, from what I was told, Depp himself was the voice for World's End. -Elizabeth (BlackPearl14 23:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC))


 * http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2666826/ 194.78.37.122 16:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've just checked the game credits and while they don't say the characters the different actors play, Johnny Depp is not listed as a voice actor. He is only listed in the 'special thanks' section for allowing modelers to study his face. Fredvdp 13:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Characterization
Under characterization, it says "And He's sexy!" Yes, I can agree with that, but that is pure opinion and I don't see that in other encyclopedias. I am deleting it, just so you know. BlackPearl14 01:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay Somebody just got rid of an observation about jack somthing was was so blatantly obvious in the movies it shouldn't need a source, and claimed the reason why was sources. the movies are the de facto source on a character. Why should the facts that Jack's agility gets him out of trouble and that he's good with ropes be removed because therese no sources? If you've seen the movies it's obvious. Technobabble1 02:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's called original research. Bignole 02:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

It's called a Primary source. Technobabble1 00:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, using it as a primary source would be saying "Jack tripped, and wasn't cut by so-n-so's blade". Saying "Jack's clumsiness always allows him to escape unharmed" is original research. Bignole 00:38, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay I give up with all i said. but what about the fact that he's proven to be good at rope swinging. No amount of research could add up to anything other then "Jack is good at holding onto moving ropes". think. Technobabble1 03:00, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * What is the point of it? He isn't a real person. The point of the "characteristics" section is to have information from third part sources describing his characteristics, not his rope swinging abilities. Bignole 03:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know whether it's considered original research, but I've realised that in the movies, he has always had a grand plan and it's always worked in his favour. So I added a tiny reference to that fact. I don't really see a reason for it not to be mentioned though. CaViE-ZN 00:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You're interpreting his actions. You need a third party reliable source to do that.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  00:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Wicked Wench? AND Jack's Birthplace? Oh My Lord
There was information on Jack's ship-about the Black Pearl; his job on the ship when it was known as the Wicked Wench and it was a merchant ship, etc. There is verifiable proof for that, and here it is: Check the Disney Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest MOBILE game. It is official.

And Jack's Birthplace? Why, the official Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean Complete Visual Guide says that he was born on a Pirate Ship in the Indian Ocean during a typhoon. Maybe you should check before you delete verifiable information. I will rewrite that, but I am just saying...

BlackPearl14 01:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for that, but try not to keep in-universe. I think "Black Pearl 101" is more immediately checkable source though for Sparrow's backstory. Alientraveller 07:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

GA Passed
Brilliant job, really really good article, awesomely out of universe, smashing job. And I still can't do the Article history template yet, so could someone else do that please. Gran2 20:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Alientraveller 20:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Gran2. We really appreciate it. BlackPearl14 22:15, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Film appearances
Do we need that much detail for 3 film appearances? Don't the actual film articles take care of most of that? I would think that we only need to mention the big picture of what was going on. I was just reading the first paragraph and it tells me just about every move he made in the film. This seems to be redundant to what is already on the film pages.  BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  13:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Palpatine and Padme Amidala do the same. Alientraveller 14:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not saying they aren't a bit much as well. It could be that what was voted into FA status changed. Regardless, I think it's a bit too much detail. The same principle applies to those sections as to regular plots for films, and scene by scene shouldn't be done. I think maybe a nice full paragraph for each film is all that is necessary. Maybe it just needs a good copyedit to clean out some unnecessary wordage. Would anyone object to my doing that?   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  15:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The Pirates films are quite complex though, and I did write it in a manner that I wasn't simply writing another plot summary for a film, but merely what happens to Jack. Problem is, Jack is affected by and affects everybody. Alientraveller 15:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I recognize that, which is why I think maybe the section needs simple copyediting.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  15:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Flag
Who's flag was the basis for Sparrow's flag again? Therequiembellishere 20:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know. Got a citation? Alientraveller 20:02, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I'm asking a question--you know how Barbossa's flag is based off of Calico Jack's? Well, Sparrow had a basis too, I just forget who's it was, and it's not in the article. Therequiembellishere 20:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well have you got a cite to validate where you know Jack's flag is based, and if so would be worthy of inclusion as it's not a prominent prop? Alientraveller 20:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's just that all but one of the Pirate Lords' flags are based off some major pirate (see the page). Therequiembellishere 20:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

They are just asking which REAL pirate carried a flag similar to it. BlackPearl14 05:26, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Jack's Flag is a disney original. Technobabble1 22:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually it is not. It is based off of Henry Every's flag. -Elizabeth (BlackPearl14 23:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC))

Original Jack Sparrow Picture
Who deleted it? I thought it was good to know his original look before Depp changed it!!! -Elizabeth (BlackPearl14 22:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC))
 * Idiots deleted it. Idiots who revert the article to when it was Start-class, like today! Alientraveller 15:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Good thing it is back, is it not? -Elizabeth (BlackPearl14 00:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC))

Source for Images?
Some of the images contained in the article appear to be screen captures or to be derived from promotional materials. Where were these sourced? Are they licensed? 67.189.48.7 00:45, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * All are sourced. Two have links to the url they were taken from, and the other were apparently personal screen captures from the DVD (no url required). Bignole 01:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Some Stuff I have been trying to Add
But Needless to say I dont know how. This includes That Jack was born to Captain Teague an a Indian Maiden - I'm sure this was in this Original Article aswell as PoTC Wiki. Also he changed his surname from Teague to Sparrow as part of becoming a pirate. Lee Curry 19:57, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Source beyond a fan wiki? Alientraveller 19:00, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There needs to be a source that others can verify it with. We may believe you, but we want the best and most accurate information on Wikipedia. Alientraveller and I are firm on that, and we hope that you can give it to us as soon as you can. Thanks. -Elizabeth (BlackPearl14 06:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC))

Established Users
Hey, so it says to edit the article, you must be an established user. I'm an established user, right? Just refresh me, I can't remember. Thanks. -Elizabeth (BlackPearl14 06:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC))
 * An established user has been a member of Wikipedia for more than four days. For more info see Protection policy.   Arwen Undomiel   talk  15:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for telling me. I had no idea, literally, but I've been on for a long time...-Elizabeth [ BlackPearl14 02:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC) ]

Multiple Personality?
I am not a Wikipedia user so apologies if I misstep. But I noticed that Jack Sparrow is listed in the "Fictional characters with multiple personality disorder" category, supposedly for the item in the article which reads, "There Sparrow has been hallucinating an entire crew comprised of himself, each representing a facet of his personality." Should he really be listed as having MPD/DID on the basis of this alone? If so then almost anyone who dreams, hallucinates, or fantasizes can be said as having this disorder. I'd like to recommend that he be removed from that category. (I have no username to sign, so again I apologize if I'm doing this wrong. I do not understand the 4-tildes format.  If my post breaks any rules feel free to delete it.)--tehuti 208.100.201.198 11:19, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I questioned this myself, and I find that this statement in the article is unsupported by any other facts. I'll be sure to remove that immediately. BlackPearl14 01:37, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Name
I do think the name should be Captain Jack Sparrow for the article, and I know we've talked about this before. BlackPearl14 19:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

FA nomination
Just thought I'd better leave a note here; someone's nominated this article for FA, but they don't seem to have ever actually contributed to the article, so I'm concerned the issues raised at the nom won't get addressed unless one of you regular contributors keeps tabs on it. It could be worthwhile wandering over to Featured_article_candidates/Jack_Sparrow. It was me who added the only comments so far (with a few unconditional supports before me), and I can just see none of them getting addressed unless one of you lot keep an eye on it! Cheers, and good luck! Oh, don't take the comments to heart, they're all easily fixed, and once done I won't have a problem with supporting too. Carre 12:13, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

FA Date
When exactly should we have this sheduled? I was thinking November 21. I can put the page excerpt box for the main page article. Just let me know what date you want it scheduled. Again, I was thinking November 21. BlackPearl14 01:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

No one has replied yet, I see, but this is what I was planning on putting up. Your suggestions?

November 21
 Jack Sparrow is a fictional character from the Pirates of the Caribbean universe who is portrayed by Johnny Depp. He was introduced in the film Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003), and appeared in the back-to-back sequels, Dead Man's Chest (2006) and At World's End (2007). He is also the subject of a children's book series, Pirates of the Caribbean: Jack Sparrow, which chronicles his adolescent years, and the character's image was introduced into the theme park ride that inspired the films when it was revamped in 2006. The character has also appeared in numerous video games.

Sparrow is the Pirate Lord of the Caribbean Sea and can be treacherous, surviving mostly by using wit and negotiation rather than weapons and force; although he will fight if necessary, he tries to flee most dangerous situations. Sparrow is introduced seeking to regain his ship the Black Pearl from his mutinous first mate Hector Barbossa in the first film, and in the sequels, attempts to escape his blood debt to the mythical Davy Jones while battling the East India Trading Company.

Initially, Sparrow was conceived for the first film as a trickster who guides the hero, Will Turner (Orlando Bloom), but Johnny Depp's performance led to Sparrow's role being altered. Depp's flamboyant and eccentric characterization, partially inspired by Pepé Le Pew and Keith Richards, turned Sparrow into an iconic anti-hero and the breakout character of the series. Depp earned his first Academy Award nomination, and in a case of life imitating art, Richards played a cameo role as Sparrow's father in the third film.(more...)'''

A Jack Sparrow chapter book was released on November 21st by Disney Press. BlackPearl14 23:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a free use image of Johnny Depp, probably a free use Jack Sparrow image somewhere as well. Gran2 15:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You mean this? Alientraveller 17:09, 7 November 2007 (UTC) [[Image:DeppRushonsetPirates3.jpg|100px|thumb]]

Yeah that's the one. Gran2 17:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I copied the pic onto the article. So I'll have it scheduled :) BlackPearl14 23:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wait until Gran2 crops it. I'm not sure about having the article on so soon though. Alientraveller 11:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I shall wait...yes, I understand about the article date. I wasn't so sure, hence I asked. BlackPearl14 19:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Gran2 ! So it won't be queued for November 21, but we'll have to think of a good date for it to be a main page. Maybe when one of the movies was released? I'm not sure, we'll need to decide. BlackPearl14 23:25, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the best date would be the original release of Curse of Black Pearl. Gran2 15:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a great idea BlackPearl14 01:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The release date of the first film was 9th July. That means we'll have to wait for 8 months to get this as FA. Or it can be featured as FA on 9th June (Depp's birthday). Varun280287 06:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They prefer articles that've been FA for a longer time. Seeing as this has been nominated quite recently, I would think that the 8-month wait is good enough. As such, the PotC 1 release date seems adequate. -- BlackPearl14 (talk) 19:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Content in Article
Okay, this is really bugging me... It's CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow!!!!!!!!!!! Not JAck Sparrow!!!! Why won't it let me fix that!!! It's not abuse!! It's his name!!! Can the author please fix that or something??? --QueenOfSparrabeth


 * The problem is that his name is Jack Sparrow. Captain is his title, and it is definitely what he has others call him, but that’s why. There was another earlier message on this, I’d advise you to check the archives. BlackPearl14 Pirate Lord-ess 02:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Jack's Sword Skills
Why does this article downplay his sword Talent so much? He Duels on par with Will Turner, James Norrington while being distracted, and even outduels Will on one occasion. He also dueled on par and won against Davy Jones and Captain Barbosa, While Jones out classed both Will and Elizabeth at the same time, yet was Disarmed by JAck. My overall point is in the characterzation article it states his sword skills as being "Very Weak" i think that seems very incorrect, as the only reason is because he often avoids fights. Per examples his sword skills seem very strong, as hes technically not lost.


 * Thanks for your concern on this, but everything has got a source. Also, his swordsmanship is important because in the films, Sword-fighting was an important part. Jack also keeps bragging about said skills. If you need any other answers to any general PotC questions, write me on my talk page (click on "Pirate Lord-ess"). BlackPearl14 Pirate Lord-ess 17:18, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The writers state in their commentary for the first film that Sparrow is not as good as the other fighters: that's where his manipulative personality developed from. Alientraveller (talk) 17:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Depp a Movie Star?
Is it honestly fair to say that Depp wasn't regarded as a movie star until PoTC? Perhaps for the younger folk, but I would imagine that Edward Scissorhands, What's Eating Gilbert Grape, Ed Wood, Sleepy Hollow, Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas, Benny and Joon all were big enough movies to place him firmly in the category of "Movie Star" (as subjective as that category is, until PoTC and Charlie and the Chocolate factory, if you said Johnny Depp, most people would think of Edward Scissorhands or later, Fear and Loathing, in my experience) even if you ignore the various other films where he's not been a primarily lead role. Then again, I can remember him from Nightmare on Elm Street and Platoon.... I guess I must be getting old. :P 86.3.150.116 (talk) 00:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I found a cite which suggested as such. From what I understand from other articles I read in 2003, many had regarded Depp as "a character actor stuck in a leading man's body". He has generally been seen as a Hollywood outsider, and indeed the article shows insiders doubted his casting in the films because of this. I would argue POTC definitely gave Depp family appeal. Alientraveller (talk) 12:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to admit, I'm not entirely convinced by the cite - it's little more than a suggestion - a single sentence by a reviewer in a "top ten" list of blockbuster movie franchises that says - literally, and off the cuff - that PoTC "solidified" his popularity (something I will definitely not argue - PoTC is phenomenally popular). However I don't honestly think that from that we can extrapolate that prior to PoTC he wasn't a movie star. The Wiki article describes a movies star as a person famous for playing leading roles - something he certainly did and was prior to 2003. While these may have been often quirky, I'm not sure it's fair to suggest that he's been typecast or only plays certain character roles. According to just a quick peek at IMDB, he was awarded a star on the Walk of Fame and nominated for a goodly number of awards (including for leading roles) prior to PoTC.


 * As the inline ref doesn't seem to support the wording exactly, that he was regarded as little more than a character actor and/or outsider, would there be any objections to perhaps wording the sentence slightly differently (along the lines of "PoTC solidified his status as a movie star, as well as a character actor")? I do feel the current wording suggests that prior to PoTC he'd made no really significant mark on the public - and perhaps this is slightly an age/location issue as I am in my 30s and from the UK and trust me that Depp was incredibly popular over here during the late 80s and 90s! Of course, if there are other sources that support the current text then I can't really argue but I do wonder if perhaps we could compromise on the wording or perhaps clarify that the view isn't universal but of course, we don't really want to go into too much detail as obviously this is an article about Jack Sparrow, not Depp. I'll definitely not argue that there was a probably a goodly amount of doubt for his casting (heck, you should have seen my reaction when I found out he'd been cast for Willy Wonka!) and also the angle he brought to the role, but at the end of the day, the character of Jack Sparrow is as much Depp's creation (in the films) as it was any of the writers/producters/directors and truthfully I feel it was hia interpretaion of the character of Jack Sparrow that made the movie, as much as the other way around. But either way, certainly I don't have any arguemnent around the rest of the article at all and I do appreciate your speedy reply. :) 86.3.150.116 (talk) 19:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Better, or worse? Alientraveller (talk) 20:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Better, I think. I'm still not convinced that's precisely what it means but I won't push it any further. Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. 86.3.150.116 (talk) 22:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This should probably go under Johnny Depp's article, but I'm not quite sure about that, apart from Alientraveller's source. An article based on what a group thought of him. I know that most moviegoers always regarded him a movie star. BlackPearl14 Pirate Lord-ess 03:30, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Accessories
I saw a special featuerette in The Dead Man's Chest DVD where it said that the piece of lace he's got aorund his wrist was a trophie from a girl. Can someone verify that? i think it's an important part of his attire,since you can clearly see it.