Talk:Jacksonville, Florida/Archive 2

Soccer
The article lists the Jacksonville Northsiders FC as a future club in the United Soccer League. Wikipedia lists the USL as being defunct since the mid-1980s. Will the Northsiders be an MLS team?

Football

 * With the exception of Green Bay (which looks at all of Wisconsin, including Milwaukee, as its market), Jacksonville is both the smallest market in the NFL and the smallest permanent home of a major league team (Oklahoma City, which is even smaller than Jacksonville, is serving as a temporary home for the New Orleans Hornets).

I'd think hockey fans would be offended by this. The statment about major league sports doesn't account for the NHL, as there are a number of NHL cities smaller than Jacksonville. I'm also fairly sure Jax is larger than Memphis, Tennessee, which got an NBA team a while back, and I would have thought Salt Lake City.
 * We are also larger than Buffalo and now New Orleans.--The Viper 02:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Image collections
I've removed this site from the 'external links' section, as it really borders on linkspam. However, the link could be useful on the talk page as a reference. Dr. Cash 17:50, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Spottswood Collection 2,500 images of people and businesses in the Jacksonville area from 1916-1967. From the State Library & Archives of Florida.

History of the consolidated government
I added the previously unreported fact that the disaccredation of the public high school system in 1964 was a major impetus toward governmental reform; ie. consolidation. WBcoleman 20:47, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The beginning of this article is vague. Jacksonville is the "argest city in the South outside of Texas." OK. Not largest area-wise, because it is the largest in the lower 48. Not the largest population-wise, either, because Atlanta is clearly larger. What should be done here? Deletion?


 * No, it's correct. While the metropolitan areas of various southern cities (Charlotte, North Carolina, Miami, Atlanta, etc.) are larger than Jacksonville, Jacksonville has the largest city population. --Cúchullain t / c 22:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The Brick City
Many members of local unions do refer to jacksonville as the brick city and we dont need some pompous ass deleting that comment. If he does it again im reporting Cuchullain to the wikipedia people because we dont have to take this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KatoABJV (talk • contribs)
 * You'll have no cause to report Cuchullain; he's not in violation of policy. See WP:3RR.  Also, I've never heard it referred to as "The Brick City."  dcandeto 01:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Alright i guess your right but that doesnt change the fact that its true regardless of what you've heard and it shouldnt just be deleted out of spite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KatoABJV (talk • contribs)


 * Do you have any references to cite for the Brick city nickname? Please note that they will have to meet the requirements of Verifiability. --  Donald Albury ( Talk )  01:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's worth mentioning that KatoABJV has added similar unsourced edits to Pittsford (town) and Pyongyang.  dcandeto 02:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I just removed those as well, thanks for pointing it out.--Cúchullain t/ c 03:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You people think you can push around the working man, we dont have to take this. You think your better than me because I have to work for a living?  Theres not any web pages that say so but i know lots of people from JAX who call it the brick city.  So why do you keep deleting it?  How do you know that nobody calls it that just because you never heard that? You must think this is a game for some reason but i will not be picked on here.  What do you have a problem with union people? —Preceding unsigned comment added by KatoABJV (talk • contribs)
 * Enough of that. Nobody here is engaging in class warfare. A quick Google shows that Ocala is called "Brick City," (Most of downtown Ocala was destroyed by fire on Thanksgiving Day in 1883. The town's commercial center was rebuilt in brick, thus the city became known as "The Brick City.") ... but I haven't seen anything about Jacksonville being called this.  Is Ocala close to Jax?  (I don't know much about Florida.) &middot; Katefan0(scribble)/ poll 14:51, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ocala has been called the Brick City (and is only a few hours from Jax), but I don't think KatoABJV's edits have anything to do with that, especially since he also claims Pittsford, New York and Pyongyang are also called "Brick City". He claimed the name comes from the Bricklayer's Union, which I assume he's in, but I doubt anyone uses the name "Brick City" besides him and his friends.--Cúchullain t/ c  20:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * ooooooooo, you is hatin' on the workin' man!!!!! ;) Mike H. That's hot 20:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * So long as I got through to one person it was all worth it —Preceding unsigned comment added by KatoABJV (talk • contribs)


 * Cuchullain, they should change JAX's name from the Brick City to "Petty Greivance Town" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.221.237 (talk • contribs)
 * you said it, who's this guy think he is, DCandeto too I've heard it called that whos he to get all uppity about it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.113.69 (talk • contribs)

Well, absent any other proof I don't see that it should be included. · Katefan0(scribble)/ poll 02:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I live in Jacksonville and no one has ever called it the Brick City. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPQzy (talk • contribs) 23:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Jacksonville's population
Worker31b has been adding (in my opinion, non-NPOV) text about how small Jacksonville's metropolitan is despite having the largest population of any city in Florida. Is there some consensus as to whether the relatively established reference to it as the largest city in Florida is more appropriate than just "a large city in Florida"? I do not believe there is a need for this change, and it reeks of attempting to minimize Jacksonville's importance. dcandeto 22:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I just reverted his edits to the Miami article to remove his excessive 'boosterism'. For what it's worth, I was born and raised in Miami (many, many years ago), and I'm quite satisfied with noting that Jacksonville is the most populous city in Florida without going into elaborate gyrations trying to prove it really isn't. --  Donald Albury ( Talk )  23:51, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Here here. --Cúchullain t/ c 00:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Most people think of a city as including suburbs and it is confusing to hear that Jacksonville is the largest city. It should be worded something like Jacksonville is the largest city and the fourth largest metropolitan (or urban) area in the state of Florida. That makes it clear Jacksonville is largest by city limits. We all know that Jacksonville is only so big in population because it annexed almost an entire county. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.142.45.254 (talk) 08:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

If most people think of a city including suburbs than they need to be corrected in the way that they think. It is important for simple things such as voting, city services, taxes. For instance if I say I live in Miami but really live in Hollywood Florida, when its time to vote for the mayor of Miami, I don't get to vote or my taxes are based on where I actually live. It does not matter what people say.128.190.125.2 (talk) 18:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

New York City has a population of 8,000,000, and it has five counties composed into one cit-Brooklyn(Kings county), Queens, Manhattan(New York county), Staten Island(Richmond county), and the Bronx. If it was just Manhattan, New York City would only have 1.2 million people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bronxbombers93 (talk • contribs) 00:29, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hotel Roosevelt fire
Can someone add the Hotel Roosevelt mention to the main article? I had it there but it didn't flow very well. It is notable in the grand scheme of things, as the fire claimed the most lives in one day in all of Jacksonville history. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 02:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Libraries or Media?
Which section needs references? I took all of the material for the Public Library entry from our website - http://jpl.coj.net which is listed as an external link.

Pejorative.majeure 08:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Been there, done that, but not any morw. If your source was the web link, cite it as a reference instead of as an external link (IMHO). -- Donald Albury 21:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Famous native individuals...
There's been a recent slew of professional and college level athletes added to this section; so much so that it looks quite messy and, frankly, biased. Perhaps most of these, if not all, can be moved over to Famous natives of Jacksonville, Florida and we can continue to list only the most well known ones on the Jacksonville article? Maria 20:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm all for this, I wouldn't mind if we moved the list over there entirely.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * In addition, I've been removing 'famous' persons whose notability has not yet been established in a Wikipedia article. -- Donald Albury 14:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Climate
Here's a great PDF file on the Climate of Jacksonville before 1907. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a table showing average/high/low temperatures and precipitation - in fahrenheit and inches? Come on, no one (except the united states) uses these antiquated scales of measurement. Translation please!


 * Antiquated? María: ( habla ~  cosas ) 15:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Sports == cannot confirm soccer team ==

The United Soccer League website has no indication of a Jacksonville expansion team. I've replaced this reference with the new women's league team.Frondelet 15:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Photographs
I was wondering if we can please put some better images of Jacksonville into this article. Some of the current pictures (including the first image of downtown) are bland and uninteresting. There are so many better photographs of the Jacksonville area available- downtown, San Marco, the Beaches, etc. I think it would greatly improve not only the quality of the article, but its aesthetic value as well.


 * Contemporary images of Jacksonville need to be free, i.e., under an unrestricted license such as one of those listed at . -- Donald Albury 13:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

GA Review
This article no longer meets the GA requirements because...


 * 1) It doesn't have any references
 * 2) The leade is a complete disaster, spending an entire paragraph putting forth the notion that Jacksonville is big city, when this is in reality a minor fact that might deserve a brief mention.

Therefore I am putting the article up for review at Good Article Review. Zeus1234 06:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Delisted from the Good Article List
Per consensus decision at WP:GA/R, this article has been removed from the Good Article list. An archive of this discussion can be found at: Good article review/Archive 18. Please improve the article to meet all of the requirements at WP:WIAGA and renominate once it is up to standard. --Jayron32| talk | contribs 00:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

vandalism
This is a confession. recently i changed the words "public" to "pubic" in the library section. i was bored and within an hr the vandalism was caught by another user. i apologized to thast user and i feel the need to apologize to everyone else that didn't read the user's talk page. --HRH Crown Princess Abi of the United lands of Liberty 22:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Cowford and Cows
Can I say something here that will likely make me sound like an idiot? First of all, I have been hearing about the history of the name "Cowford" as Jacksonville's original name for decades, but I don't believe it.

Where I grew up, there were a number of towns that had the suffix "-ford" on their names. They were also named because (as this article says about Jacksonville), they were places that the river was easily crossed, or forded. But every one of these places that I knew as a boy were places where there were shallows in the river, sometimes with rapids, sometimes not. Yes, you could drive horses or cattles across these areas, with varying degrees of risk. At some fords the water might be a foot deep, at other fords maybe even four or as many as five feet deep (although this is the stuff of pioneer movies). The point is, a person (or a person riding on an animal) could walk across the river at such a point.

This stuff about Jacksonville being named "Cowford, because of its location at a narrow point in the river across which cattle were once driven" strikes me as utter nonsense. Indeed, the St. Johns does get very narrow at what is today Jacksonville. But that's not the point. That also happens to be the deepest part of the entire river's course, as well as the place with the strongest current. A friggin' elephant couldn't ford the St. John's anywhere near this place.

I don't dispute that Jacksonville was once known as Cowford. But I do believe that the language in our article—which I acknowledge is also found in many other sources—is incorrect. It's simply not logical. Is there anyone who knows something more about Jacksonville's history that could explain this better to me? Unschool 16:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That is valid and commendable skepticism. But "Cowford" really was the name, and that really is the true origin of it - cattle crossed the river there at the narrowest point. But notice the text doesn't say they were actually forded across in the technical sense; they were taken across by other means (I think ferries were in operation; cows are also fair swimmers). I've heard several times that "Cowford" itself derives from the Indian name of the crossing which was Wacca Pilatka, meaning something along the lines of "place where cows cross" (this was the crossing itself, mind you, not the settlement). That should probably go in the article.--Cúchullain t/ c 21:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I guess "Cowford" was just easier to say than "Cowcrossing".--Cúchullain t/ c 21:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Cuchullain; it was originally named Cowford by its founder, Isaiah Hart, until the name was changed to honor Andrew Jackson in 1822. I also agree with the assertion that a ferry may have been used to transport the cows at some point, but all historical documents agree that it was originally located at the narrowest point of the St. Johns, and cows did cross, one way or another. María ( críticame ) 23:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I mean, I assumed that there was something to the name's origin; it just didn't fit in with the general notion of a ford. I suppose it was better than Cowville. Unschool 03:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The harbor has been dynamited several times over the years in order to increase its capacity. Where once cows could safely ford they now would fear to tread! jacomo (talk) 03:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Before the Acosta (Old) bridge was built in 1921 one of my forebears swam across the river from the foot of Main St. on a drunken dare. Once he got to the other side–and no doubt sobered by the exertion–he was dismayed to realize that in order to get home he had no choice but to go back the way he had come!jacomo (talk) 04:11, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Population estimate
I reverted the population estimate to 782,623, since that is the figure stated in the source linked directly after the number (U.S. Census Bureau estimate for 7/1/05). If someone wants to update the number and give a verifiable source for said number, please feel free. Dtcomposer 23:49, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The article states that Jacksonville is the largest "in terms of both population and land area". This is very much wrong, and I've changed it to only land area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.180.106.26 (talk) 15:39, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Nicknames
I don't know how to explain this, but I'll try. The current situation in the infobox on the Jax nicknames is just absurd. Yes, I know information "challenged" must be cited, but there are limits, people. If I requested a citation on the Chicago nicknames, e.g. "Windy City", sure, there'd be citations, but it would be ridiculous, because, first of all, it's common knowledge, and secondly, those infoboxes are not built for footnotes!

I checked 8 other major cities in the US, and found not one of them having any documentation for their nicknames. And I don't care--I'll leave it to the denizens of those towns to keep their info boxes clean. Anyone who has lived in Jacksonville for ten years can identify the commonly used nicknames, and they don't include "the 904". The Urban Dictionary is NOT a valid source for this, period.

Look, this needs to be handled by a consensus of people who know. Sure, sure, I know what you're saying, How can we tell "who" knows? Just let up on this need for documentation--which looks stupid in the infobox--and let us locals work it out. The kids won't play forever, and us grownups can work it out. Otherwise I will just delete the whole nickname section. Unschool 05:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The names left on there at present, "Jax", "J-ville", and "The River City", are heard daily on major Jacksonville media. They are part of the universal local lexicon, much as "First Coast" is (though that refers to a larger area than just Jax).  If you want support, we can find tons of it and place it here on the talk page, but do not expect footnotes in those little infoboxes--it just looks terrible. Unschool 05:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've never heard "J-ville." It is not heard daily in local media and definitely needs a citation.  dcandeto 14:50, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Freakville is a common nickname for the city in the 20-40 set. Yes, it's not heard in the mainstream media, b/c the mainstream media in Jacksonville is known to be conservative. I've never heard the '904' used anywhere until it was placed on the page. Not in mainstream print, online or television/radio.  If you're going to use a nickname used by one portion of the populace, you should use another.  Bold New City of the South, Gateway to Florida, among others are past nicknames that aren't circulated but can still be found in many sources.  I used different sources for the different nicks - ones I had actually heard of. Of course doing it at midnight without a print source handy limited my options to Googling and picking a most likely source (as that was requested by a previous editor). (I agree with the aesthetics comment, btw. It looked absurd but they were asked for and something you place on Wikipedia is supposed to be cited somewhere or so I'm led to believe.)Pejorative.majeure 14:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that only the common nicknames should be kept. I think names like "Jax" are so common that cites aren't needed, but it can't hurt.--Cúchullain t/ c 08:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In any written work for public consumption (that is, everything written except dissertations and masters theses, which are printed on plain paper and courier font and shoved in a section of stacks of the university library where none will ever again tread), aesthetics are a consideration. Not the only one, not even a major one, but nonetheless a consideration.  A bunch of footnotes in the userbox can be and should be avoided, if for no other reason than the aesthetics of the article, IMMHO. Unschool 08:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It is Wikipedia policy {Verifiability) that any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged must have a reliable source cited, or it may be deleted. That requirement may not be suspended by a local consensus. While aesthetics are important, Wikipedia is not like most other publications. As anyone can edit Wikipedia, the only way to build Wikipedia's reputation for reliability is by insisting that reliable sources be provided for the material in it. Adding what you hear people say is using original research. If a nickname for a city is enduring and notable enough, you can find a published reliable source for it. By the way, the source I cited for Jax was not the Urban Dictionary, but a dictionary published by a major publishing house. Now, I have known Jax as a nickname for Jacksonville for a long time (it was in common use in Miami in the 1950s), but there are a lot of things that I 'know' that I haven't added to Wikipedia because I haven't found a published source for them. I see a lot of suspicious-sounding nicknames added to city (and other political entity) articles. I have no way of knowing whether those nicknames are legitimate unless a citation is provided. Remember, we are not writing for people who already know the subject, we are writing for people who have come to Wikipedia to learn about the subject. We don't allow experts in academic fields to add material to articles in their field of study without citations, even if all of the 'experts' agree on it, so why should we allow anyone to add nicknames without citations? -- Donald Albury 10:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have heard J-ville pretty often, and would have believed it so common that it doesn't need a citation, but I'll trust Dcandeto and Dalbury about it. If it's challenged, it should be cited or axed. "Freakville" and "The 904" are not in wide enough use that they should be included (I doubt the "conservative" local media has much of an impact or opinion on this). I think "Jax" is common enough (as in the "Magic City" for Birmingham, Alabama) that it doesn't even need a citation, but if it does, Dalbury's cite was fine.--Cúchullain t/ c 07:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The fact that one never hears "Freakville" in a telecast or FTU article (unless it's a direct quote of a 20/30-something who knows the term) and instead are always hearing Jax or the First Coast (which applies to more than Jax but is often misleadingly used as a reference to something occurring in Jacksonville, especially "tragedy on the First Coast" or other eye-grabbing leader stories) is due to the conservative atmosphere in this area. Similar to the fact that one rarely hears of urbanjacksonville.com or the alt community in Five Points unless something like a police raid happens.  The media only reports on "deviant" non-mainstream culture when it can present a negative aspect of it.  Non-stoned or sober people referring to the city as Freakville will rarely if ever be heard in Bailey Publishing materials, the FTU or the TV news, BUT if you read the Folio, you will see it in every issue, multiple times. Pejorative.majeure 17:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Right... Anyway, I added Jax back in after it was removed. I think we all agree it belongs?--Cúchullain t/ c 17:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * a Pass/Fail:


 * Lead; move some of the geography to the geography section, and replace with some economic and cultural information (see Atlanta and Miami)
 * Did anything happen between 1567 and 1821?
 * Clarify why "extension of the Florida East Coast Railway to south Florida" was detrimental (why was South Florida more desirable?)
 * There should be at least one reference per paragraph, especially on history whose subarticle is unreferenced as well
 * If Tagalog is 1%, perhaps mention should be made of the Philippine community
 * Fix the refs with cite web and cite news
 * Done, with more (book) refs to come for the history section. María ( críticame ) 14:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Its obvious that a lot of work was put into this entry, but there is still a lot to be done. I highly recommend looking at other GA cities as an example, especially Atlanta and Miami. Let me know once you've addressed these points, or if you have any questions or comments. Cheers,  Tewfik Talk 19:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Move the "neighbourhoods" and "economy" sections up, and eliminate or significantly shorten the lists of residents and businesses, as there are already subarticles
 * Expand the "economy" section with prose and information
 * You might want to move the skyline information into a section, or at least a separate paragraph which focuses on the architecture.


 * Thank you, Tewfik, this is an excellent assessment and your tips and pointers are quite helpful; I'll set to work on the history section soon; I agree that the early period needs to be expanded and better explained (with sources, of course). Although I believe the GA nomination was premature, maybe this will push us to speedily improve matters. :) María ( críticame ) 20:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm failing this for now, but as I said, it is nearly there. Do get back to me in a few weeks, and I'll be glad to promote it. As for the nicknames, I found some sources that may help. Good luck,  Tewfik Talk 05:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Area
This article notes that "...since 1968", Jacksonville has the largest area. What was the largest city before the trend to consolidate governments?
 * Virginia Beach, Virginia. It consolidated its government before Jacksonville but Duval County is larger than Princess Anne County. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walkert16 (talk • contribs) 12:38, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Government Information
Most city wikipedia pages have a brief government section. I know there was one for Jacksonville. What happened to it? Pejorative.majeure 18:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It had been deleted by a vandal in June, I've restored it.--Cúchullain t/ c 00:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Sports table
I think that the large table in the sports section should be removed. It is an eysore, full of redlinks because most of the teams mentioned therein would not pass WP:N were they to not be included in here. Those teams that are noteworthy are mentioned satisfactorily in the article. Unschool 00:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've looked at it again, and it doesn't have nearly as many redlinks as I had remembered. It's still an eyesore though, in my opinion.  Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?  Can it be made smaller? Unschool 00:14, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Intro
I went ahead and moved the information about Jacksonville's population comparison with New York and Philadelphia to the Demographics section. The intro was just too cluttered with population statistics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.91.28.34 (talk) 13:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How ironic that I was the one who added the New York/Philadelphia comparison in the intro several months ago, and now I've been prohibited to remove it. I've created a monster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.91.28.34 (talk) 21:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally I think it's fine for the intro, if you disagree go ahead and move it down again.--Cúchullain t/ c 21:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I also like the Philly-NY comparison; it is a more colorful expression of what is otherwise a drab set of statistics. I won't fight its removal, but I do support keeping it in. Unschool 06:47, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

About the comment on the picture
Below the picture of one of the maps, we can find this comment: "A 1992 map of four of the bridges." However I can only see three bridges on the map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.0.148.56 (talk) 15:50, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you look close, you will find four: Fuller Warren Bridge, Acosta Bridge, FEC Strauss Trunnion Bascule Bridge, and the Main Street Bridge. The FEC Strauss and the Acosta are so close it is hard to tell on a map. Jaxfl 15:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Sections, neighborhoods, and the city's website
I am having difficulty in culling constructive criticism regarding the entry for the Lake Shore neiighborhood/community/section of town. I am being told that someone will be deleting the article because they do not believe (or simply do not know) that Lake Shore is a neighborhood on the westside (or SW side) of Jax. It IS in fact an inner-perimeter community which began as an outpost to the city proper. Considering all relevant info I have been able to state (as elegantly and in descending order of importance) has taken time to refine. I have old plats and proof of my statements that Blanding Boulevars originally lived as the south west extension of St. John's Ave. I simply do not at this immediate time have the ability to scan them and post here. Now, with the attitude perceived from the original "deleter", I don't see I'll be given the chance to substantiate the truth of such historical origin. This article must not be lumped into some ambiguous Jacksonville article. The area IS it's own neighborhood just as Cedar Hills, Confederate Point, Hyde Park, Avondale, San Pablo, Murray Hill etc each possess their own boundaries and characteristics. No more notable-no less so either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.170.103.4 (talk) 08:07, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Most of the way the section is right now is fine, I suppose. But a major problem is with the City's decision to extend "Northwest" Jax all the way to the St. Johns River, and to deny that there is any part of Northside south of the Trout River. Look, if you're in Panama, you're about as Northside as you can get. How about standing at the corner of Lem Turner and Edgewood? Is there anyone from Jax that would not recognize that as "Northside"? So I'm going to leave the NW entry alone, but will remove the parenthetical explanation of North Jacksonville, since it fails to include most of the persons who would say that they live on the Northside. Unschool (talk) 21:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Jacksonville is divided into four quads, Eastside, Northside, Southside and Westside. The Eastside is not a part of the Northside nor is downtown a part of the Northside. Downtown is just as close to the Southside as it is to the Norhtside.

Also Ponte Vedra is a part of Saint Johns county it is not in the Eastern part of Duval County. Pakidd (talk) 19:43, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

To locals, there is no Eastside in Jacksonville. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPQzy (talk • contribs) 23:28, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * There is further discussion on this here: Talk:Neighborhoods of Jacksonville, Florida--RadioFan (talk) 13:37, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Jacksonville notability
I asked User:Cuchullain for his opinion on an issue regarding the Jacksonville, Florida article. The (www.city-data.com/top8.html) City-data reference used to support the "largest city in the continental US" claim now shows that a bunch of small towns have annexed huge tracts of land. The largest, Newberry-Baker, California (7988.5 sq. mi.), has a population under 16K. Would you say that Jacksonville can no longer make that claim? Mgreason (talk) 16:03, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * As I said on my talk page, in the very least we can't use city-data.com as a source for that statement anymore. If the material is accurate, it appears that Jacksonville is not the largest municipality in the continental US. The reason we didn't say it's the largest city in the entire US is that there were municipalities in Alaska that were bigger; by that standard, all the towns listed by city-data.com significantly larger. At any rate, I'd like to see some more info on this.--Cúchullain t/ c 17:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * After several months I finally checked into this, and city-data is using a list of unincorporated places. I don't know where they're getting their information regarding the land areas, but the bottom line is these places are not cities. I've replaced the cite with one from the census and restored the claim that Jacksonville is the largest city by land area in the continental U.S.--Cúchullain t/ c 19:50, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Politics section
It appears to me that this section, which has nary a citation, is full of POV and OR. I'm just placing it here to remind myself to get back to it when I have time, but of course anyone else is welcome to do so. Unschool (talk) 18:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Politics
Jacksonville, like most of North & Central Florida and the panhandle, was historically populated by Democrats, who still outnumber Republicans. In the last half of the twentieth century, large numbers of Northern Republicans retired and moved to coastal communities in South Florida. For the most part, they were not politically active. Until John Delaney was elected in 1995, the last Republican mayor in Jacksonville was elected in 1887. Until Bob Martinez was elected in 1986, the last Republican governor in Florida was elected in 1874*. (Republican Claude Kirk, formerly a Democrat, was elected in 1966 when the liberals in South Florida refused to nominate incumbent Governor Haydon Burns as the Democratic candidate and split the party. Kirk was defeated for re-election and Democrats were subsequently elected for the next 20 years.)  In the years after Ronald Reagan was elected president in 1981, thousands of voters switched to the Republican Party. Additionally, thousands of Republicans moved to sunny Florida and Jacksonville from northern states or relocated from south Florida to avoid overcrowding, high prices and crime. Republican Party organizers saw Florida as a tremendous opportunity in the early 1990’s. While the Democrats were complacent, the Republicans energized their members, increased fundraising efforts and motivated fellow Republicans to get out and vote. Three of Florida’s last four governors were Republicans. The last three mayors of Jacksonville have been Republican** (Ed Austin was elected as a Democrat, but changed parties in mid-term.) In 2008, the Democrats are still trying to catch up.

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 11:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "jplhistory" :

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Retail
The information in the retail section sounds quite a bit like an advertisement for Town center. That is all. Mtleslie (talk) 23:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I really think we need to keep retail mentions to a bare minimum. Unschool (talk) 01:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Number of floors in Bank of America Tower (Jacksonville)
There was some conflicting information in Wikipedia regarding the number of floors in this building: I've found more than one additional reference verifying that the BofA Tower in Jacksonville has 42 floors. I've added one more citation to the Bank of America Tower (Jacksonville) aticle, and both citations to the Jacksonville, Florida and List of tallest buildings in Jacksonville articles. Cheers, --Joe Sperrazza (talk) 16:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Bank of America Tower (Jacksonville) &mdash; article notes 42 floors, provides one citation in support
 * This article, Jacksonville, Florida &mdash; notes 42 floors, provides no citations in support
 * List of tallest buildings in Jacksonville &mdash; article notes 42 floors, provides no citations in support

Photo of Franklin Roosevelt in Jacksonville
I found a photo of Roosevelt with Gov. Sholtz visiting Jacksonville ca. 1933-1934. I don't know who the third person sitting in the car is - probably Mayor of JAX at the time. Gamweb (talk) 00:44, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Loodog's trimmings
I was initially inclined to revert much of what User: Loodog did to the article today, because I felt it was indicative of a failure to understand the strange and unique relationship between Baldwin, the Beaches, and Jax. But then I saw that Loodog had created Law and government in Jacksonville, Florida, placing the excised material therein. After realizing this, I reviewed what Loodog trimmed, and indeed, this had become bloated (as is much of the rest of hte article). While I would probably want a few small things back, I am more than content with the major change Loodog has done. Sometimes we can be too close to an article to see its flaws. Un sch  ool  03:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good to hear.--Loodog (talk) 04:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Education
Statement from User:Nuwildcat added without citing source. Added FACT tag and notified editor of need for reference. Mgreason (talk) 18:43, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The Lead Section
Reading the reasons why Jacksonville, Florida was taken off GA status, I find that the consensus was the lead did not adequately summarize the article. Reading the lead right now, it is mainly stressing the fact Jacksonville is a large city, and does not speaking anything about its climate, for example, off the top of my head, seeing that the climate is the first section of the body. TechOutsider (talk) 03:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)TechOutsider


 * It was actually delisted as a GA years ago, but the failure of the lead to properly summarize the article is a major problem. There's very little about history and almost nothing about climate or anything but population numbers and rankings compared to other major US cities (which were not properly sourced, by the way).--Cúchullain t/ c 18:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Very valid point about the lead and the big city stuff.  Some editors prefer the current version, whereas others think that there is a false impression in the current version, as indicated by this edit.  Just the other day I was doing some editing in an attempt to bridge some differences on this topic.  The result?  Even more bloat.  I would love to see a decent lead section here, but I do think that this gentle conflict needs to be resolved.  For my part, I think it's perfectly okay to state that Jacksonville is the largest and most populous city in Florida, but there are those who think that this is a deceptive comment, given that it is only true because of consolidation, and given that the Jax Metro area is not in the top three in the state.   Un  sch  ool  17:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem with the metro data was that it had so sources backing it up. In some cases statements were attributed to the US Census city data, which did not include metropolitan statistics (the metro data one does include metro data but does not rank the metro areas.) At any rate the level of detail is not necessary for the article lead. Consolidation and Jacksonville's vast size and city population are part of what makes Jacksonville unique, but the rankings may belong somewhere in the article, but definitely not in the intro. Additionally, I think the phrasing is overly dismissive ("despite the fact", "only ranks"). To whit, Jacksonville's mayor and city council preside over a population and budget greater than those of Atlanta, Miami, and Washington DC., even though the metropolitan area considerably smaller.--Cúchullain t/ c 15:56, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with your analysis, specifically, the point about what responsibility the Jax city government has to deal with, and I have always wanted Jacksonville's large size and population somehow included. Which brings us again to the point of this thread:  the lead.  Okay, I agree that the detail that has often been included in here is excessive for the lead (and, even worse, has probably contributed to the failure to include other lead worthy information).  However, the lead must also provide in the opening sentence what makes the subject most notable.  To me, Jacksonville's size--both as the largest city in population in Florida, and as the largest city in area in the contiguous 48 states--is what is most notable and therefore belongs in the lead sentence.  How do we reconcile this and yet avoid this contentiousness regarding caveats?  Un  sch  ool  19:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the problem simply comes from the fact that "city" can mean two things. It can either mean the common interpretation of city (i.e., something that exists regardless of whatever legal status the government gives it), or it can mean the more restricted "city proper". (For example, if the five boroughs of New York City were legally considered independent cities, would the general public still consider NYC to be the U.S.'s biggest city, or would they suddenly decide that LA is now the nation's largest city?) It's disingenuous to use the second, extremely specialized term when we know readers will almost certainly read it with the first meaning in mind (unless we are very careful to show that it is only the city proper that we are referring to). I don't want to be contentious about the word "city"; perhaps there's a better way to phrase what you are trying to say? I think the enormous city proper does merit a mention..  Matt Yeager   ♫  (Talk?)  20:05, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Matt, you just clarified things for me, but probably not in the way you intended. I've always sympathized with those who want to devalue Jacksonville's large population because of the fact that it came about when Jacksonville essentially merged with or annexed the rest of the county.  But look at NYC!  What we know as NYC was formed little more than 100 years ago by another annexation/merger between what had been New York City and surrounding communities.  Granted, the analogy stops there, because modern NYC is #1 in population both in terms of the city proper and the metro area.  But I strongly disagree with your apparent belief (assuming I am reading you correctly, Matt) that most people are thinking about metro area when they think rankings.  I'm sure some are, but Chicago was still widely regarded at the #2 city in the country for many years after the LA metro area surpassed it in size. Un  sch  ool  20:41, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that it's presumptive to assume our readers are thinking about the metropolitan are when thinking about population. They are clearly thinking about the city proper when we talk about the land size, otherwise New York would probably be larger, since the New York metropolitan area covers the five burroughs, all the surrounding counties in New York state and several more counties in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut. As such I think the best way to handle this is to distinguish briefly between a city proper and the metropolitan area, which the current version of the article does. Of course, as I said above Jacksonville's vast size and population is one of the most notable things about the city, and ought to be mentioned in the lede. But we must keep proportion and balance in mind.--Cúchullain t/ c 14:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Jacksonville has many of the same type of abiguity problems that confront many consolidated cities in the U.S., like Louisville, Nashville, Indianapolis, and Denver, all but one being the largest cities in their states: Is it just one city or a metropolitan area? In the old sense, it'd be both, but in the modern sense it is not. Like the other four, Jacksnville's urban core consists of a portion within the combined city and county. Indianapolis is no different in that regard, neither is Louisville or Nashville. The city near where I live, Evansville, Indiana, isn't either. Even Evansville, should it consolidate with Vanderburgh County, would not occupy the entire metropolitan area, in fact it would be occupying the by far smallest county of the area. While Jacksonville is the largest in area, the other four also consist of counties that have large tracts of undeveloped land and independent cities within their city limits as well. It would be fair as well as accurate to consider Jacksonville in that same category. Rhatsa26X (talk) 00:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

[unindent] Denver is different from the others: while Louisville, Nashville, and Jacksonville have a setup similar to Unigov, with some semi-independent municipalities remaining in the county, all of Denver County is the city of Denver. It's like New York City: there's nothing in any of its five counties that isn't in the city. Nyttend (talk) 14:35, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Monster House?
It lists Jacksonville as the shooting location for the film Monster House. As this was an animated film using Motion Capture, I would be interested to know in what way...if any, that Jacksonville was involved in the filming. WesUGAdawg (talk) 01:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

de jure vs. de facto size
I reverted edits that introduced comments about Jacksonville's de jure and de facto size compared to other cities. The problem with talking about de facto size is how you define that, and we already cover the MSAs defined by the federal government, so I don't see why we would want to add comments about de facto size. -- Donald Albury 11:26, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Good revert, that language just added to confusion, rather than reducing it. Surely this use of terminology is highly idiosyncratic. In fact, it could be argued that the city proper population is the "de facto" one, since that's the number that's tied to the city as an actualy legal entity, rather than the much more subjective metropolitan population.--Cúchullain t/ c 14:38, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Neighborhoods
After doing some preliminary reorganizing at Neighborhoods of Jacksonville, Florida, I've rewritten the Neighborhoods section here, based on the sources used there. The problem with the previous version is that it put too much emphasis on the City of Jacksonville's six planning districts, which don't have any real official status and aren't widely used. In fact, the sections conflict with the traditional divisions of the city. I've tried to reword to better summarize what the sources say.Cúchullain t/ c 15:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Nova Southeastern
It's not correct to say that Nova Southeastern University is in Jacksonville. First and foremost, the cited source doesn't include it. Secondly, the school does have campuses, but they're in South Florida. What is in Jacksonville is one of Nova's various "off-campus location" they refer to as a "student education center". This is a computer lab in rented office space for distance learning programs. This isn't really notable enough for the main Jacksonville article, though it could potentially be included in the education in Jacksonville article if third-party reliable sources were found.Cúchullain t/ c 15:28, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Ridicuolously Long Citations
Citations numbers 1, 6, 43, 44, 45, 46, and 70 really need abbreviating. They have caused the navigation boxes to become unattractively long. No other city of this size, even Indianapolis, has citations nearly as long as this. Rhatsa26X (talk) 23:55, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Jacksonville is NOT the largest city in Florida. Technically when you look it up in the reference books they only county people within the incorporated limits of "Miami" in the city population. Jacksonville has a big incorporated area Miami's is very small but anyone who has been to both cities can easily tell you that Miami makes Jacksonville look like a 2-bit small town. Calling Jacksonville the biggest city in Florida may be technically accurtate but its highly misleading —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.232.214 (talk) 03:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh shush you butthurt Miami idiot. Were the biggest and largest. Now STFU.98.82.151.242 (talk) 23:38, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Interesting dialog, two years ago. Did you mean "were" or did you mean "we're". Just asking, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 20:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Ronnie Van Zant Memorial Park
Is is appropriate to have this paragraph in the "Parks and gardens" section? The majority of text details the band's airplane crash, and the park's location is in Clay County. Perhaps it should be included in Culture/Entertainment? Mgrē@sŏn 14:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

In order to avoid an edit war
The population of Jackson Florida in 2010 was not 500000000000000000 or however many zeros has been placed in there so far. The edit has been reversed a couple times. If you look up the facts for population in Jacksonville you find something like this 821,784 for 2010. Tattoodwaitress (talk) 23:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC) I have found information regarding the population of Jacksonville in 20110 here if you would like to check the numbers. Population, 2010 821,784

Porch o' geese

 * por que todo condado ou lugar dos eua tem a demografia por composição evolutiva e aqui só tem por etnicidade? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.119.114.92 (talk) 07:31, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

"why all county or place of USA has by evolutionary demography composition and ethnicity is only here?" Whatever that means. --NE2 07:52, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Not actually called Cowford?
http://archive.org/stream/actsoflegis37flor#page/8/mode/2up "across St. Johns river, on the south side, at the cowford, opposite Jacksonville" --NE2 17:13, 12 May 2014 (UTC)


 * NE2, the Cowford or Cow Ford referred to the land on both sides of the river where ferries could cross. Much more of the activity was on the south side of the river. The original town of Jacksonville was platted on the north bank of the "Cow Ford".--Cúchullain t/ c 14:26, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

"Jaxon" and "Jacksonvillian"
I've added another source for what people from the city are called; we now have two establishing that both "Jacksonvillian" and "Jaxon"/"Jaxson" are fine. We can't go telling people what "should" use, especially without specific citations (we can't expect a reader to search through 60 years of historical newspapers). If there are other specific citations we'll add them too, but for now it seems to be pretty clear that both are acceptable.--Cúchullain t/ c 13:23, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Timeline of Jacksonville, Florida
What is missing from the city timeline? Please add relevant content. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 11:15, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

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Interesting and informative
I just did some copy editing on the introductory section of this article, but that does not detract from the fact that this was a good article with plenty of information: obviously some hard work by fellow Wikipedians! I now know quite a bit about Jacksonville. CPES (talk) 14:47, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

File:JXFL2011N.png changes Comment Comment
A few days ago you uploaded a new montage image of Jacksonville, FL. At the very least the picture needs to show the statue of Andrew Jackson, the person the city is named after, and it should remove the image of the Skyway, a huge mistake that is barely used in the city. Frmorrison


 * Frmorrison, I understand your argument and I am open to suggestions. I'm a local who has been editing on Wikipedia for years and I am deeply devoted to portraying Jacksonville as it should be. Themes of montage images should be broad. Before deciding to change the image I decided to view lots of other cities pages to see what was being portrayed. The arrangement chosen most closely resembles the current Chicago's montage. Now to speech to your two concerns. The Andrew Jackson statue does pay homage to the cities namesake, but as far as being a great work or importance to the cities development and history, it is not. Memorial Park was designed by the Olmsted Brothers and C. Adrian Pillars sculpted the statue house within it. It just feels like a more significant thing and more important to portray. As far as the Skyway goes, for better or worse the system is here. You can say it is a disaster, and at this point I would agree with you, but this is discussion of expanding it actually spending money on the thing. The point is that topics across the spectrum should be portrayed. Transportation, the arts, government, parks and commerce should be represented. Mathew105601 (talk) 16:18, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Climate charts
Why are there two climate charts? Can one be removed? Magnolia677 (talk) 13:36, 24 November 2016 (UTC)


 * If I remember right, the small chart to the left was introduced relatively recently. I remember there being some drama. I have no preference either way. It does seem to be a little duplicitous. I've really only noticed the lower climate chart on most cities pages. It's usually open, too. Speaking of most cities pages, the Sister cities topic usually falls under the "Sister cities" section. :P I was on a role, but there are a few examples of "Global outreach" and "International relations" Mathew105601 (talk) 00:35, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Excessive images
Soooo, there are like a lot of images on this page, to the point that I think it violates a policy which states, Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files. Any thoughts? Mathew105601 (talk) 11:10, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

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Demographics: "vacant" household?
Under the demographics section the article says that >11% of "households" are "vacant." I can't find any examples of this type of usage (say, at Census), so it seems as though this means that a housing unit is vacant. Strange juxtaposition with the other household stats. Don't know if this is an issue or not.

Cellmaker (talk) 18:32, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Recent shootings
This is an encylopedia, not a news service. The History section should be for historical events. The recent additions about shootings seems to go against both NOTNEWS and Recentism. I do not see a list of all the shootings in Jacksonville from over the years, so why add the shootings from the past week? - Donald Albury 14:05, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

December Weather Record Modification
The record high for the month of December is 85 degrees F, set in 2016. Reference: https://w2.weather.gov/climate/xmacis.php?wfo=jax — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.42.92.99 (talk) 18:55, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Record Temps
I restored high and low temperatures removed from climate table by User:Mathpianist93 without discussion or justification. Mgreason (talk) 03:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


 * On 9 June 2010, User:Mathpianist93 removed all the data in the Climate table in this edit. I restored the data and left a message on the user's talk page. I warned the user that if he continued vandalizing articles, I would request that his account be blocked. Mgreason (talk) 18:06, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * You are being [purposefully?] deceptive here, MGreason. You restored record highs and lows. You are either a liar or someone not careful with language. 'vandalising articles': at most, I may well be doing so here, but not anywhere else. There is no need to flame out only over records. Records do not constitute averages and are thus 'the common item out' in relation to all the other items of infobox weather. thus, they should not be included in a main article anyways. the greater range of colours caused by the inclusion of records is highly distracting and utterly useless unless included with an extreme or monotone climate. I initially removed the records mainly for this reason, and come to think about it, they are/have been recorded at JAX, which is more than 10 miles away from the city centre, and thus probably does not represent the heat island build up. Notwithstanding any of the reasoning, as I switched the station for most of the climate data to Jacksonville Beach, he insisted on retaining JAX data instead of switching to Jacksonville Beach data. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 21:11, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * since the separate template is present, I am going to initially transfer the records there and substitute that template here. it is a good way to conserve code space for large city articles, and if we do not use it, it will be vulnerable to deletion. Note that the template is collapsed by default, so don't jump and accuse me of deleting for a third time. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 21:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I did not look closely at Mathpianist93's change to see that he moved the data to a template, so I apologized for reverting his change. However, he does need to describe the change and reason (if it is not obvious) on the Edit Summary. Doing so would have avoided this situation. Mgreason (talk) 13:21, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * could you please answer the real question I posed here (that is, the validity of including records)? ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 16:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

A new record high for the month of February reached 89 degrees on February 13, 2020. The old record was 88 degrees. Is there a way you can fix this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.42.92.99 (talk) 20:36, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Names of the Citizens
Jacksonville Florida has absolutely no name for the citizens. "Jaxsons" or "Jacksonvillian." Obviously if you google it, you get a WJCT article from 2014 of someone talking about the term being used in history books from the 1900's, but does not state any bok in particular. These are off hand comments, created by people trying to fill a void that doesn't need to be filled. We do not identify with either and would ask that you do not make edits reflecting it. No mayor of Jacksonville, Governor of Florida, or anyone representing us in any capacity has, or will use the terms. Tyenglish (talk) 14:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you even looking at the given sources I added? These are not "off hand comments", which you keep falsely insisting. Not sure what you mean by "does not state any bok in particular", but the refs I added are an academic book published by a university and a history of the city. I have operated a business in the Jacksonville metro area for thirty years; my clients include many leading figures in the community, and I have certainly heard some of them occasionally use the terms "Jaxon" or "Jacksonvillian". Your personally not liking the terms or the citations does not determine whether or not we can use them; WP policy says we can. Again, no one's saying these are official names for residents of the city, they are simply terms used occasionally in media and books to describe them. Carlstak (talk) 15:40, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The sources given easily pass as reliable sources and they verify the material, which pretty clearly makes the material pass the threshold. A person anecdotally not using or hearing of these terms doesn't mean they're nonexistant. Not that it matters, but I'm also from Jacksonville and the terms are in use.--Cúchullain t/ c 22:17, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * They're all also from many, many years ago. If this page is to reflect what is true of today, then it should not be included. I also own and run business in the greater Jacksonville area. The term is never used, under any media. You can number the examples on your hand, by only short excerpts from old media. Ask yourself, does it truly represent what Jacksonville is today? Does it really need to be included as something that is used? You can find people using "New Yourkian", which has many more examples. Does this constitute that it be included in the wiki page for New York? Point being, because it's been used before, doesn't mean it's the identity of the population. It's inaccurate and does not need to be included. 2600:1700:40A4:AE1F:8D3A:A744:9ABF:A74D (talk) 03:12, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You keep arguing against a point that no one is making—no one's saying that either "Jaxon" or "Jacksonvillian" is the "identity" of the population—they're simply terms that are occasionally used to describe people who live in Jacksonville. 2014 and 2015 are not "many, many years ago", and it's disingenuous to say so. Carlstak (talk) 06:28, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * All the sources are from the 21st century and three are from the last 5-6 years. I hardly expect things to have changed radically in that amount of time. At any rate, one Wikipedia editor not having heard of the term is no reason to go against reliable sources.--Cúchullain t/ c 16:01, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I’m going to second Carlstak and Cuchullian’s points. The sources are reliable and the data is being presented in a way to show variations. Disliking a place doesn’t qualify you to dismantle the facts. Perhaps this is a symptom of our Trump world. If you don’t like something just erase it. Mathew105601 (talk) 19:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I literally live here, and have all of my life. The very, very few (2) examples you provide does not represent the community. If an editor takes notion to start using a adjective, does it constitute the use? These are names never used in the community, in the news, in marketing material, in tourist material. Including it is deceptive. Just because you found in a google search (Because I can guarantee most of you have never even been to Jacksonville physically or have any ties to it) doesn't mean it is true and factual. To forcefully include it is incorrect. Its a term that is never used, even at the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce meetings, which I attend regularly. It is never used when any of the local news stations are reporting, and its never used when National news is reporting. Instead, you are parading 2 articles from years ago, that briefly mention it. Tyenglish (talk) 14:54, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Get the hell over it. Actually, I’ve lived in Jacksonville since 2007, and was born and raised in Palatka. You are arguing for the sake of arguing with no factual basis to back up whatever point it is you are trying to make here. These terms are in the public sphere to varying degrees and uses. Just because you don’t hear them down at a Jax Chamber meetings doesn’t mean they aren’t useful or worth citing. Just because an idea is abstract doesn’t not mean it should be discounted. And the more we sit here and talk about the more content and meaning we are giving the words you are trying to erase. They just are. Let it be. There are plenty other good fights out there on Wikipedia regarding Jacksonville. Learn about your neighborhood, find reliable sources, and add to the content about those places. Take pictures of important places around town and upload them. Please! You could not find a bigger Jacksonville advocate then me! I’m not trying to cut you down in this. I just think you are taking the wrong perspective. I’ve been wrong many times on here. But this isn’t one of them.Mathew105601 (talk) 02:33, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You can "Get the hell over it." Here, https://news.wjct.org/post/what-do-you-call-someone-jacksonville its addressed that there is no name and everything other than "Floridian" is "grammatically gauche". If its used, then find me some marketing with it, private or public. If you cant, you're the one literally arguing to argue. The onus is on you to produce something other than 3 or 4 random lines from material that has nothing to do with the area directly. If someone anonymously quoted me as saying people in Jacksonville are called " Sandstone people" would it qualify? No, so have a nice day :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyenglish (talk • contribs) 16:28, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

You're just making stuff up, Tyenglish, as you've been doing all along here. Your last edit summary said, "Nobody has yet to come up with ANY material other than some random WordPress sites", which is completely false, of course. The references cited are a news item on news.wjct.org (the website of WJCT, the news arm of the local PBS station) entitled, "What Do You Call Someone From Jacksonville?", an academic book with a chapter comparing boosterism in St. Augustine and Jacksonville published by the University of Virginia Press, and a book about the history of Jacksonville published by an established history press that says (in reference to Jaxons night market): "For Jaxsons, by Jaxsons, the market celebrates an array of locally owned businesses that help make Jacksonville unique."

And your statement in the edit summary that "The consensus was "If you can find it online, then its 100% true" is completely fabricated, like the rest of your fallacious claims. Obviously you have nothing. Carlstak (talk) 20:43, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

"Freakville" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Freakville and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 25 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>Torte 13:35, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Flags in the infobox
User:Binksternet, User:Donald Albury: "Regarding the recent addition and removal of flags from the infobox: Largoplazo (talk) 11:25, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The WikiProject model doesn't say flags can't be used, it just doesn't happen to use them itself.
 * The model says "While it is just a guideline and there are no requirements to follow it in editing ...".
 * WP:WikiProjects says "WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations, nor can they assert ownership of articles within a specific topic area. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors and may not impose their preferences on articles."
 * The actual rule, MOS:INFOBOXFLAGS, says "Human geographic articles – for example, settlements and administrative subdivisions – may have flags of the country and first-level administrative subdivision in infoboxes."
 * Despite the edit summary "Flag icons are not for decorative use", in the case of a settlement they aren't purely decorative but informative. They inform the reader as to which flags, besides the locality's own, are flown there, at official buildings and so forth.
 * For those last two reasons, maybe the WikiProject should reconsider and include flags in their model. But, again, even if they don't, there is no weight of authority in the absence of flags in their model.


 * And the first sentence of MOS:INFOBOXFLAGS states, Generally, flag icons should not be used in infoboxes, even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they could be unnecessarily distracting and might give undue prominence to one field among many. I think flags used in the infoboxes of populated places are a distraction. While the guideline says they "may" be used, it does not favor their use. Since the use of flagicons in this article is disputed, we need to establish what the consesnsus is for their use in this article. My !vote is 'don't use'. Donald Albury 20:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's how the guideline starts, with the general rule that you quotedand then it gives exceptions to the general rule. Surely you don't think that when a guideline is written like this, the proper interpretation is that the general rule renders all the exceptions that someone took the trouble to list after it ineffective as though they hadn't been listed!
 * I don't generally like infobox flags either. I agree that they're generally distractions, equivalent to writing out (as is fashionable in some types of legal documentation, at least in the United States) each number in words after the numeral. I would read "There are 13 (thirteen) half-notes in an octave, ..." as "There are 13 half-notes in an octave and, by the way, let me digress and inform you that 13 when spelled out is 'thirteen', ..." Similarly, at G7, where the G7 member country names are all preceded by flag icons, I read the list as "Canada, and, by the way, here's what Canada's flag looks like; France, and, by the way, here's what France's flag looks like". In that infobox, the flags are irrelevant and redundant. If one were to argue that they're there to help identify the countries rather than to provide tangential information about them, I would respond that (a) the name of each country already identifies it and (b) anyone who can't already identify a country from its name is certainly not going to be familiar with or helped by its flag in identifying it.
 * Nevertheless, in this case the guideline allows it and the icons genuinely provide information, rather than serving as a redundant decoration, as I stated. Largoplazo (talk) 21:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I have never seen a guideline describe how the infobox is there to help the reader determine which flags may be flying at a location. Nothing like that is found at WikiProject Cities/US Guideline, for instance. In that guideline, the allowance for flag icons is only for jarring differences: sister cities in other countries. On the other hand, Template:Infobox_settlement says that inline flag icons "may" by used only for the national flag, but not for the state flag, which advice contradicts the idea that flag icons are there to help the reader see which flags might be seen flying over municipal buildings. Binksternet (talk) 15:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)