Talk:Jacob Orgen

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According to Jay Robert Nash's Encyclopedia of World Crime, Orgen's birth date is given as 1894. The 1901 birthdate as seen on the tombstone, and presumably appearing on subsequent public records, 1919 was the date when Jacob Orgen's family disowned him considering 1919 the date of his "death" hence the 1901 date. While I believe 1894 to be the correct date I've noted both dates. This should offer an explanation for the "aged 25 years" statement. MadMax 20:00, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Note that Jay Robert Nash has boasted of including false information in his works, as copyright traps. DS 19:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * While that is true, the same information is stated in The Gangs of New York by Herbert Asbury (which I would not have access to until late 2005) as well as in Carl Sifikis's The Mafia Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia of American Crime. MadMax 05:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The the Rockaway Book (Robert A. Rockaway: But He Was Good to His Mother: The Lives and Crimes of Jewish Gangsters, Gefen Publishing House 1993, ISBN 978-965-229-249-0) says, that his father -orthodox-jewish- declared his "early" death, because as Orgen started to be a Gangster-Boss; he was dead for his father; and so the father ignored the gangster-years and writing the false age on the tumbstone. Orgen was 33 Years old, when he was shoot down. This false thumbstone produced the false year of Birthday. --ChikagoDeCuba (talk) 09:45, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Jacob Orgen was born in 1901. When Orgen married Anna Rosenberg in Manhattan on September 12th 1925 he gave his age as 24 years. His marriage record is available online from the New York City Municipal Archives. A May 31st 1919 article in the Brooklyn Times Union mentions Orgen as one of the participants in a riot and jailbreak at the New York City House of Refuge, an institution for teenage offenders. This article is available online at newspapers.com. The United States census for 1920 shows Orgen as an inmate at the House of Refuge and gives his age as 19. This census record can be found online at ancestry.com. Thus all contemporary records show that the 1901 date on his tombstone is correct and that the many earlier dates (1892, 1893, 1894) given in secondary works are erroneous. Noir History (talk) 21:01, 23 February 2024 (UTC)