Talk:Jacob Schiff

Did he give money to Lenin?
There is a lot of conspiracy nonsense about the International Jewish Bankers plot on the web. Could we please have a definite answer to the above question which does not come from these people and their fevered imaginations. Did Schiff loan money to the Bolsheviks, or did he not?

It would also be interesting to know if he engaged with the Kerensky government or not. But we should have a reliable source for a simple yes or no answer, whatever various nuts like to make of it. 76.186.222.203 (talk) 01:01, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Schiff supported the White/Blue Russians that the Kerensky(who was Jewish)government led. However, once it was clear the Bolsheviks were going to win, global capitalism gave money to it so they could get commercial gains. Bolshevism while not quite the grand conspiracy people think, definitely wasn't the revolution you thought with the capitalist involvement. Initially, the bolshevik party was very anti-semitic. They believed that the Russians were Asian more than European and wanted to get rid of the Czarist regime they felt denied them their heritage. It wasn't to Lenin called up jewish wealth did he come into play with the Bolshevik party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.30.183.129 (talk) 08:13, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Dear "unsigned" - Wiki is pretty good about listing Jewish ancestry. It appears that Kerensky was NOT Jewish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CFA2:6980:1594:155C:5DBC:DF1 (talk) 17:01, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Utter Nonsense
If somebody without analytical or critical faculties read this page they'd walk away not realising that this chap basically funded several sides in World War One. He was a war profiteer, and thousands of Jews died to realise his vision of an Israeli state (including my own great grandmother). Yet this article makes it sound as if he is one step short of being cannonised. Lies and more lies. WhyLie? 11:32, 12 March 2008 (ET)

I don't know much about Jacob Schiff, but I plan to learn more. I therefore cannot yet argue with the factual content of this article, but the language is blatantly biased.

To call Schiff a traitor to America and an anti-Semite within the first paragraph, when he helped fund Japan's war against the anti-Semitic tsars who allowed & encouraged pogroms is just inappropriate, if not entirely inaccurate. I intend to do all I can to change the language of this article, if not the 'facts', to something more objective.

LordAmeth 13:47, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Conspiracy!?
Now that I have finished reading the article, I feel it quite necessary that I look into more about Jacob Schiff. I find it unbelievable that Schiff, the Rothchilds and others would have been involved in a conspiracy to control the American banks, to choose a president, and to fund Hitler. Either there's something very few of us know about going on here, or the author(s) of this article mistakenly believes in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or something. This sounds like one of those Area 51, Freemasons gov't conspiracy sort of things. Absurd.

Conspiracy section needs to be rewritten?
Seems more like a defense of him, rather than an encyclopediac statement of facts. Chad Hennings 22:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * This is due in part to the fact that the previous version of the article was wholly factually untrue, and I was trying to rewrite from that. It is also due to the fact that the allegations often made against him are so absurd as to deserve this sort of treatment. If there is anything I've written which you feel is untrue, feel free to change it. As long as you do not change the language so that it lends credence to the false accusations of conspiracy theories... LordAmeth 22:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Order of the Rising Sun
An anonymous user just changed the article from reading that Schiff was "one of the first foreigners to be conferred the Order of the Sacred Treasures" to "the first foreigner to be conferred the Order of the Rising Sun." Is this true? I don't think I would have written the former if my sources hadn't said this was so; can anyone corroborate that the latter (the new version) is the correct one? LordAmeth 00:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * [[Image:GloverMitsubishi.JPG|thumb|Glover with [[Iwasaki Yanosuke]], the son of the founder of Mitsubishi.]] The following excerpt from Thomas Blake Glover does seem to conflict with one clearly plausible sentence in the article about Jacob Schiff; but in the absence of a something more, I'd be unprepared to change either text. --Ooperhoofd 19:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "Glover was a key figure in the industrialisation of Japan, founding a shipbuilding company, which was later to become the Mitsubishi Corporation of Japan. He also helped found the Japan Brewery Company, which later became the major Kirin Brewery Company, Ltd.  It is rumoured that the moustache of the mythical creature featured on Kirin beer labels is in fact a tribute to Glover (who sported a similar moustache)."


 * "In recognition of these achievements, he was awarded the Order of the Rising Sun (second class), the first non-Japanese to receive such an honour."


 * This will not resolve all our unanswered questions, but at least we can know that Schiff was  not  the first non-Japanese to be honored with a decoration by the Japanese government. In this narrow context, I've stumbled across two plausibly relevant bits of information: (1) The Order of the Sacred Treasure was awarded to German physicist, Heinrich Hertz (1857-1894), who was the inventor of the wireless telegraph; and (2) Hilda Chen Apuy (1923-____) was said to be the first Latin American honored by Japanese government when she received the Order of the Sacred Treasure.  Could it be that further research will reveal that Schiff was the first US citizen to be receive an Japanese government decoration honor? --Ooperhoofd (talk) 16:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Neither Glover nor Hertz were the first to be awarded the Order of the Rising Sun. That singular honor actually belongs to U.S. Army Col. J.R. Wasson who, according to the New York Times, was given "the decoration of the Rising Sun, of the Imperial Order of Meiji, a distinction no other foreigner ever enjoyed."  The Times reported that the colonel was recognized by Emperor Meiji as a consequence of his conduct in the 1874 expedition against Formosa.  --  "A Victory for the Chinese; Japanese Driven with Heavy Loss from Ping-yang", New York Times,'' August 22, 1894.] --Ooperhoofd (talk) 21:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

ISSUE RESOLVED: Two sources confirm that Schiff was, in fact, the 1st foreigner to be personally decorated with the Order of the Rising Sun by Emperor Meiji on Wednesday, March 28, 1907. As it happens, Schiff was also the first non-governmental foreigner to be invited to lunch at the Imperial Palace. -- (1) Adler, Cyrus (1921). Jacob Henry Schiff: A Biographical Sketch, p. 14.; and (2) Sakamoto, Pamela Rotner. (1998). Japanese Diplomats and Jewish Refugees, p. 17. --Ooperhoofd (talk) 00:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Jewish anti-Christian maniac banker?
There are no reference citations for the following text, so I moved it here. It may be that Ppprovider will choose to expand or defend his edit in this venue. We'll see .... --Ooperhoofd 15:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * 14:55, 13 September 2007 Ooperhoofd (Talk | contribs) (9,371 bytes) (POV text is difficult to remove) (undo)
 * (cur) (last) 14:53, 13 September 2007 Ppprovider (Talk | contribs) (10,295 bytes) (→Jacob Schiff, the Jewish anti-Christian maniac banker who owned The Guaranty National Trust) (undo)
 * (cur) (last) 14:44, 13 September 2007 Ppprovider (Talk | contribs) (10,292 bytes) (undo)
 * (cur) (last) 14:43, 13 September 2007 VoABot II (Talk | contribs) m (10,266 bytes) (BOT - Reverted edits by Ppprovider {test edits} to revision #157616924 by "68.211.139.79".) (undo)
 * (cur) (last) 14:43, 13 September 2007 Ppprovider (Talk | contribs) (10,263 bytes) (undo)
 * (cur) (last) 14:42, 13 September 2007 Ppprovider (Talk | contribs) (10,242 bytes) (Jacob Schiff, the Jewish anti-Christian maniac banker who owned The Guaranty National Trust) (undo)
 * (cur) (last) 14:30, 13 September 2007 68.211.139.79 (Talk) (10,266 bytes) (Jacob Schiff, the Jewish anti-Christian maniac banker who owned The Guaranty National Trust) (undo)


 * "These Christians are but a few of the 100,000,000 Christian innocents who were exterminated by All Anti-Christian Jewish Red Commissars in Russia under the orders of Trotsky, the Jewish Commissar of Commissars. Yet Spielberg will never Direct a "Schindler's List" Movie for them or their genocide. Why is that? Because Jews did it."


 * "My relatives and my fellow Christians were murdered in the USSR under Jewish Marxism between 1917-1945, and many of the Marxists came to Russia from New York to do this to Christians in 1917 after Jacob Schiff, the Jewish anti-Christian maniac banker who owned The Guaranty National Trust, the largest bank in the United States, financed Lenin and Trotsky $35 million for the Red Revolution and the mass killing of these Christian souls. We must never forget this."

Those quotes are typical self-linearity. "Jewish Marxism" was very un-Jewish. When Marx and Engels started their goal to make socialism into a "science". They studied German Christian communes and its goals of getting back to early Christianity of pre-200AD. Never say "100,000,000" again. That is pure lol. The US has itself 15,000,000 in murders. A big chunk of the murders were in the west, used by pan-Russians nationalists to rapidly industrialize. That had little to do with the Jews after Stalin consolidated power. Why do you think there are leftover issues today?

"Jewish Bolshevism" would be more in line but with terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.30.183.129 (talk) 08:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

"helped finance Russian Revolution of 1917"?
"helped finance, among many other things, the Russian Revolution of 1917": is there a proof/citation for that anywhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Notkidding (talk • contribs) 08:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

He would have, wouldn·t he? Schiff certainly (link from article) was strongly anti-Romanov, because of the terrible murderous anti-jewish pogroms around 1900. The christian German Reich def. paid Lenin (no jew) at the end of WW1.--Radh (talk) 13:09, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Schiff in conspiracy and fiction
This article's edit history reveals that this specific section has attracted interest across the span of years since it was created in 2005. The current text encompasses collaborative, constructive edits, e.g., During this same period, a number of unhelpful edits were reverted. More work will improve this section. --Tenmei (talk) 21:56, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 14 March 2005 -- diff (Lord Ameth)
 * 15 March 2006 -- diff (Rande M Sefowt)
 * 3 November 2006 -- diff (Gkklein)
 * 5 November 2006 -- diff (Lord Ameth)
 * 29 September 2007 -- diff (199.4.216.68)
 * 27 January 2008 -- diff (128.36.80.189)
 * 28 August 2008 -- diff (74.14.98.45)
 * 18 October 2008 -- diff] (Tenmei)

New Source
The German Historical Institute in Washington, DC has published a short biographical article on Jacob Schiff that can be found here: http://www.immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entry.php?rec=41 Immigrantentrep (talk) 15:46, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Moses Schiff and Rothschild family
Schiff was born in 1847 in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, to Moses and Clara (née Niederhofheim) Schiff, members of a distinguished Ashkenazi Jewish rabbinical family that traced its lineage in Frankfurt back to 1370. His father, Moses Schiff, was a broker for the Rothschilds.

That reference seems to be broken, also wouldn't be proper to cite the original source, instead of another encyclopedia?Lbertolotti (talk) 23:36, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Wrong category
Whether Mr. Schiff was a "war profiteer" or not (as this article formerly stated) is debatable at best, and inflamatory language unworthy of an encyclopedic artice. What is not debatable, however, is that he was a major lender to the Japanese side in the Russo-Japanese War and therefore doesn't belong in the category Jewish pacifists category, even if he later argued against pursuing World War I all the way to a victorious conclusion for the Allies. 2600:1004:B144:5853:1D93:1DDA:5297:66FC (talk) 21:14, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Schiff and 1917
I think we need to make more explicit in the article that Schiff was not known to have funded or supported the Bolsheviks. This conspiracy theory is now so widespread that it probably needs to be address in the article directly.

A lot of this myth making revolves around the book Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution: The Remarkable True Story of the American Capitalists Who Financed the Russian Communists by Antony Sutton, where it attempts to discredit the Bolsheviks by connecting them to American bankers. Schiff supported groups in Russia in the vein of the bourgeois liberal/masonic republicans who overthrew the Tsar (February), but not the Bolsheviks (October) who came to power later.

Schiff was an anti-Marxist and a Zionist. Claíomh Solais (talk) 00:27, 31 December 2017 (UTC)


 * There is credible evidence that Schiff supported the Bolsheviks financially, for example the Jewish Communal Register of New York City, 1917-1918 includes the quote: "Mr. Schiff has always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of his people. He  financed  the  enemies  of  autocratic  Russia."  Overall, this article reeks of propaganda and disinformation.  I wonder who could have an interest in obscuring the financial (and other) connections between Zionism and Communism?
 * 67.143.56.79 (talk) 18:04, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * This may shock you to learn, but "the enemies of autocratic Russia" encompassed anti-communist liberals, the Socialist-Revolutionary Party, Polish nationalists, Pan-Islamists, Anarchists, Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, etc., so unless you have evidence that Schiff specifically financed the Bolsheviks out of all the possible groups he could have given money to, it isn't "credible evidence" at all. Not to mention that the autocracy was overthrown in the February Revolution and replaced with the Provisional Government, which Schiff did support, and which was overthrown by the Bolsheviks months later (a development that there's no indication Schiff supported, financially or otherwise.) --Ismail (talk) 19:39, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Sources?
I was just wondering about sources since I'm curious to read more, seems much is unsourced? Or how does it work?

One example:

"During World War I, Schiff urged U.S. President Woodrow Wilson and other Allied statesmen to end the war as quickly as possible, even without an Allied victory. He feared for the lives of his family, back in Germany, but also for the future of his adopted land. He arranged loans to France and other nations for humanitarian purposes, and spoke out against submarine warfare."

But no source seems to be listed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chronicler87 (talk • contribs) 06:47, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Jacob Henry Schiff
He was inspired?!By God?! 2001:268:924E:53B9:94D3:CF3:3798:123D (talk) 11:20, 28 April 2022 (UTC)