Talk:Jaffa orange

Untitled
I know there are some zealous indivduals that may want to delete the section "Political Significance". Sources are cited of course: *. This section is fact based, and removing it will be considered vandalism. Thank you for your understanding. -Niz


 * Would removing glaring spelling mistakes from the title of the section be considered vandalism? Babajobu 22:41, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

No sir. correcting the spelling errors would be just fine. Deleteing the whole section simply because a young zionist didn't like it is vandalism. read the Wikipedia rules. -Niz


 * I wasn't sure. The formatting, grammar, and spelling are very poor, and I thought maybe this was intentional. Since you seem very possessive of the content, I don't want to change any of it without your permission. Babajobu 13:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank's for your understanding, I have corrected the spelling of significance and resized the title of the section. I am somewhat inexpirienced with wikipedia, but I believe that is an important section to have in there. When Palestinians were exiled from the Jaffa region, they took as many oranges with them as they could because they were filled with grief that they would never see their orange orchards again. Palestinians tended to Jaffa orange groves for generations, and indeed, the survival of the Jaffa orange into the modern era is attributed to historical Palestinians. -Niz

Political significance of a fruit
The Palestinian Return Centre is is not a reputable source. Rather it is inflammatory as its home page brandishes a map of the State of Israel, among other materials. Closer to the topic: 1886 was not "before Zionist colonization" (sic), see for example Timeline of Zionism & Bilu. Wine industry in Rishon LeZion began in the same year, 1886. Must be the Palestinians "before Zionist colonization"? What other fruits have Political significance? If we continue this trend, expect similar sections in Banana, Kiwi, Grape, etc. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Bananas, kiwis, and grapes are basic types of fruit, but a Jaffa orange is a certain variety of orange, very special to Palestinian refugees. I doubt you've ever heard of a man named Ghassan Kanafani, and if so you probably considered him a terrorist, but he wrote a story called "The Land Of Sad Oranges" in reference to Jaffa oranges. My point is, these oranges are very prevalent in our literature, and in our tradition.

http://palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665.html

Another source for you. If you insist on vandalizing this section then it will reveal that you must be some sort of fanatical zionist extremist, bent on whitewashing history to suit your own arguments. It's not "just a fruit", like you foreigners might think, because you only care about money and don't see the deeper value in things. It represents what was violently stolen from us, and the peace of mind that we strive for. Understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.160.17.133 (talk • contribs)


 * Whatever you think was "violently stolen" belongs to Nakba article. That Jews "only care about money" belongs to Anti-Semitism article. But this article is about oranges (see also the next section). First the anon failed to politicize a specifically geographic article (we already have several devoted to politics & history of the area), now he's trying to do the same to an article on a fruit. Were any toothpicks "violently stolen"? Then we need the Political significance section there as well. ←Humus sapiens ну? 04:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

No offense, but your sarcasm is elementary and boring. You have to come up with better inuendos than ones about toothpicks, come on now.. By the way don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say Jews only care about money, you moron. ANY people foreign to Palestine only saw the market value behind the Jaffa oranges, not the sentimental value as well. Besides, I didn't put those things in the article, only the talk page because you are a hard line zionist, and can't be reasoned with. Jaffa oranges are not the whole species of the fruit only a certain special type. Indeed, the survival of the Jaffa orange into the modern era is attributed to historical Palestinians. Your bias compels you to repeatedly and shamelessly vandalize this article. Please stop.


 * I hope someone else will teach you manners and also how to comply with WP:RULES and to sign your talk postings. As I said earlier, this may belong to Nakba. Don't go around neutral articles adding inflammatory POV content unsupported by WP:RS. ←Humus sapiens ну? 06:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I gathered some more information. It lacks overall consistency, but clearly shows that the anon over-politicized the subject:
 * "The cultivation of the orange, introduced by the Arabs before the commencement of Jewish settlement, has developed to a very great extent in consequence of that settlement. There is no doubt that the pitch of perfection to which the technique of plantation and cultivation of the orange and grape-fruit have been brought in Palestine is due to the scientific methods of the Jewish agriculturist."Hope-Simpson report. CHAPTER VIII. Agricultural Produce. (a) CITRUS CULTIVATION
 * Sweet oranges grow on an elegant tree ... that originated in China and Cochin-China. No one knows precisely when the sweet orange was introduced into Palestine, but the first orange tree was probably brought to this part of the world in the early 16th century, when Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama brought a root of the tree from China to Portugal. It is from that single tree, still preserved in Lisbon at the home of the Count de Saint-Laurent that all of the oranges of Portugal, Spain, France and Israel have come.
 * See Temple Society. ←Humus sapiens ну? 11:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello user 69.160.17.133 - first I would like to remind you to sign your posts by typing ~ at the end of your entry before you save the page. As for your entry, it would be very useful to try to work constructively with the other editors here to achieve some concensus. You mentioned Ghassan Kanafani; I think it would be very acceptable if you would like to add a category such as "Jaffa oranges in literature" or "Jaffa oranges in Palestinian literature" and have a short, sourced, and neutral description of how Jaffa oranges actually are described in Kanafani's writings/poems. Please make sure you think through whether such text is encyclopedic. Then, I reiterate, make sure it is neutral. Many editors will not consider a phrase such as "their lost homeland" stated matter-of-factly as being neutral. There are many ways to go around this without causing controversy, so consider these options carefully. Let me know how I can help. Two more things: you may already be aware that it is against the rules for any one person (regardless of number of accounts) to revert a page more than three times in the same 24-hour period. Second, consider signing up with a username, it would make you more anonymous than having your IP address displayed and would gain you a little more legitimacy. Again, let me know how I can help. Ramallite (talk) 06:29, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions. You and I know the real deal about the Jaffa oranges, and their symbolic value to the Palestinians. I tried to further "NPOVize" the section, and said "what they view as their lost homeland". It's interestng that on wikipedia, Palestinians even having a homeland is "POV" when Jews are openly named on this site as descendants of ancient Israelites(this is by no means a fact). If you can be blocked for adding a factual, NPOV, and informative section to this article, then can't that other user be blocked for blatant vandalism based on racial hatred? Help me out. Roc


 * No one was blocked "for adding a factual, NPOV section". Someone was blocked for violating the three revert rule, which applies regardless of content.  Gamaliel 18:29, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

If that was true, the person that continually removed the section should have been blocked. Roc


 * More than one person removed the section, and I don't see that any one person violated the rule. If you detect a violation of that rule, you can report it at WP:AN/3RR. Gamaliel 18:56, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Latin name?
I tried to find a Latin name for this fruit, it turned out to be Citrus sinensis, the name of the common orange species. So the question is - is there a subspecies called jaffa orange, if not, why isn't this just included in the orange article? O bli (Talk) ? 00:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

revert war
Please discuss your differences on this talk page in a civil manner. Personal attacks and 3RR violations will not be tolerated. Gamaliel 09:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

This article has been vandalized, as relevant scetions have been removed. Unfortunately, the viewpoint of the wikipedia seniors who have the administration power is biased, which compels them to repeatedly delete and vandalize relevant section, where sources are cited. Nizroc

Transfer of Palestinian Orchards
I think the use of the word transfer is a tad lame and POV considering the who, what and how. The farmers were forced off and the orchards can be said to have been either stolen or acquired as spoils of war. Which should it be? And no, I'm not Jewish, Arabic or Palestinian.58.178.167.206 14:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

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Info and sources to add

 * Records of dispossession: Palestinian refugee property and the Arab-Israeli conflict, pp. 35-37 explain that 120,000 dunams of orchards were the property of refugees of the 1948 war and were taken over by the Custodian of Absentee Property who cultivated some of the land for export directly, and leased other sections, but most of it was unused.  T i a m u t talk 18:19, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The Middle East and Islamic World Reader, pp. 96-97 on the gowth of the market fom 1856 to 1881, where it was exported, by whom and production levels.  T i a m u t talk 19:42, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

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Contradiction between intro and body
The introduction states the variety is "practically extinct" but then the body implies that it is still commonly grown for export. If it's cultivated even a little bit then "practically extinct" doesn't seem a good description. morsontologica (talk) 08:14, 9 July 2021 (UTC)