Talk:Jaime Escalante/Archive 1

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little knowledge about a school system. Late in his career, Escalante was involved in a power struggle with school administration. I don't think anyone at the time was certain of what Escalante was doing or if they were hurting anyone. All they knew was that Escalante was thinking of the extreme long term and taking up school resources. School admin probably was thinking about the short term and all the resources he was taking up. An argument ensued and thus a POV-esque page was born Mosquito-001 22:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The page is biased in favor of Escalante to the point of being just plain wrong. One of its sources is the Reason essay, which is typically sloppy work written to bolster a particular ideology. (In this case, libertarian ideology, but it doesn't really matter which ideology.) Of course the most famous source of all is the movie Stand and Deliver, which is also biased in typical Hollywood fashion.

is also honest. I personally was surprised and disgusted by the Escalante that he described. If I ever find time, I might edit this biography page to make it more truthful. Greg Kuperberg 22:43, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's been almost a year since the previous comments were posted, and still there's absolutely nothing here from his critics' POV. Where's the neutrality that Wikipedia is so proud of?  Zurqoxn 05:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably waiting on the critics to contribute something. Easier to throw stones than build a wall I guess. 71.77.9.57 (talk) 07:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Presidential award?
I've seen the award that he is claimed to have been given by the President been called several different names. Some sources have it awarded to him in 1998, yet the photo on the site shows Ronald Reagan 'awarding' him something, and Reagan wasn't president in 1998. Some places call it the Presidential Medal for Excellence, others the United States Presidential Medal and the photo caption calls it the Teach Freedom Award. I've found no evidence in a google search that any of these metals even exist, at least under any of those names.

I have found several bios of him, so I can start to try to work on this article but until I see something that gives the exact true name of the award with some kind of official proof, I consider it fictional. Presidential Medal of Freedom and Presidential Citizens Medal exist but not any of the ones named. Fanra 06:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * George H.W. Bush was inaugurated in January 1989, so in fact Reagan was still president in 1988. Presidents take office in the year after the election year. - Mark Dixon (talk) 20:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You are correct that Reagan was president in 1988. However, Fanra is correct that Reagan was NOT president in 1998. What sources list him as getting the award in '98? LoverOfJoy (talk) 18:23, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

- I'm not sure I'm entering this in the right fashion, but does this link help? (http://www.yic.gov/paceea/adcom/bios.html). The site appears to be the legitimate page of a governemnt body and lists Jaime Escalante as being a recipient of the Presidential Medal for Excellence in Education as well as a member of the Presidential Advisory Commission on Educational Excellence for Hispanic Americans. They don't give an award date or other details. There is a contact us section if you want to dig deeper. 71.164.252.214 01:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)srobidoux@verizon.net

-

There is another award from Reagan, given at an earlier date: on Sept. 14, 1984, Escalante received some sort of award from Reagan -- perhaps the "Outstanding Leadership Award from the U.S. Department of Educ." or the "Hispanic Excellence in Education" award (it's not clear from the transcript). Source = http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1984/91484a.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.96.217.85 (talk) 04:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

-

Regardless of the name of the award or the date in which it was given, I believe it is not correct to refer to a President of the United States as 'former' - even after leaving office, they retain the title of POTUS. Whether or not this is important, I leave to others to decide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcadian Del Sol (talk • contribs) 22:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC) Arcadian Del Sol (talk) 22:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Nickname
what did those kids call him in Stand and Deliver? It doesn't sound like his name. What does it mean? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.172.77.40 (talk) 23:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
 * They called him "Kimo," as in Kimosabe: the nickname for the fictional Lone Ranger as appended by his sidekick Tonto Samename 18:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism?
??? 1998-08: (10-12) Gas Station attendent ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.243.124.10 (talk) 09:52, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Sevenfold
Is there a better way to re-word "a sevenfold drop". Once something decreases by 100% it is gone, so it clearly can't decrease 700%. In an article about a math teacher this should be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.155.200.88 (talk) 13:43, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

I can see why the person who listed the faulty mathamatical logic above did not leave hus/her name. Percent decrease is change/original amount * 100.

Therefore, (of course!) something can decrease 700%. Whew, this is why we are heading to last place in Math in the world! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.0.69.41 (talk) 18:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, while it would be 'theoretically' possible to drop 700%, it would require going into the negative, which logically would not be possible with student population. If there were 100 students in the program, and the number of students dropped by 700%, that would mean that there were now negative 600 students in the program.


 * Of course, this is an old comment, and whatever it referred to seems to have been corrected, so who knows if anyone is reading this? If someone is, and they understand the logic here, let me go on a tangent: I recently was reading an article that talked about some Americans "living 200% below the poverty line." What the hell is that supposed to mean? BBrucker2 (talk) 00:55, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Cochabamba
That article says he was born there. Then much later it says he returned there because it is his wife's hometown. Both could be true, but is it his original hometown too, just a weird coincidence, or maybe another town name is missing? I don't know for a fact that anything is wrong, it just seems odd. --Wolfram.Tungsten (talk) 15:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Was it Jaime? or the Hawthorne Effect?
I know nothing about Jaime Escalante. However, I do know of the "Hawthorne Effect", for which there is a WikiPedia article. It might be helpful if those who know the details about Jaime Escalante's remarkable career, would also study the material about the "Hawthorne Effect", and related effects, such as the "Pygmalion effect". A research hypothesis might be phrased as "Did the remarkable results originate from Jaime Escalante's unique but reproducible teaching methods?  Or did the high achievement result simply from just another case of the Hawthorne Effect?   In that case, Jaime Escalante's teaching methods would probably not get results, when applied across an entire school system." 71.207.224.57 (talk) 23:59, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

The Hawthorne Effect postulates that subjects improve their behavior out of recognition that they are being studied. I wonder, at what point were Escalante's students part of a controlled experiment? The Pygmalion Effect asserts that there exists a positive correlation between increased expectations and improved performance. If, indeed, this was the case, Escalante's role as the students' guide remains critical. Finally, the sociological hypothesis you suggest would have had to have been administered during Escalante's tenure, not after the fact. Researching such a hypothesis now would necessarily rely upon historical methods, not sociological methods, and it would be nearly impossible to distinguish the vitality of Escalante's role from mere phenomenon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.231.221.253 (talk) 02:21, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Race
he is not "native american" He's from Bolivia and likely mestizo. Why does his race matter? 216.164.62.93 (talk) 02:37, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Because this is an encyclopedia and the more details, the better. On a personal note, I didn't know he was Bolivian, and since my family line has Quechua Bolivian ancestry, I find it very interesting and inspiring. I'd imagine Aymara or other Bolivians would find it interesting, as well. LovelyLillith (talk) 17:49, 27 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Escalante wasn't "Native American"; he was Aymara. Outside of the US we say Aboriginal, Native, or First Nations (because none of us, of any flavour, are American). In any case, Native American is a very poor choice of words in this context. We're best just to say Aymara and leave it at that. The hyperlink will resolve any confusion. Laodah 03:13, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Citation requests 2010-03-30
While I understand the need for WP:RS and citations, this article had been relatively stable up until the subject started to experience health problems. Seems disgraceful to suddenly show on his deathbed and tag an article in this manner. --Morenooso (talk) 03:46, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Escalante hagiography
Some editors have, doubtless in good faith, added a large quantity of text that amounts to hagiography. I understand that Escalante has many admirers who are devastated by his death, but Wikipedia is not a fansite and that must be borne in mind when editing. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 22:52, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There are several regular editors on this article. We are watching over it. When details of his death die down, we will trim it up. I watch for WP:V and revert as necessary. --Morenooso (talk) 23:07, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * With all due respect there is way too much already. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 23:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There are way too many editor and visitors to this article. His article before his death was a shadow of what is now. Sevencrystalballs is the main offender if you ask me. I think you have the article's best interest at heart. I have to sign off but did advise that user, who just about all his contribs are to this article, to slow down and read how to write a great article. Please do what you feel necessary and if you see its edits, cite him as I did. --Morenooso (talk) 23:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I disagree about this being hagiography. I saw the movie Stand and Deliver years ago and was impressed with the portrayal. Since the late 1990s, I have searched the internet for someone who wrote about his teaching methods. By the number of successful AP test-takers, he must have been doing something right. I have taught math and statistics for 30 years. I wanted to know more about his methods in order to improve my teaching. To this date, I have yet to find any material on his methods. If any of you ‘several lurking editors’ are an expert on this teacher and know where his methods were written up then I humbly ask you all to enlighten us. Before I read this article on 20100424, I knew next to nothing about the man except what was in the movie. If this article was a 'shadow' of this present modest size prior to his death then you have done him a disservice. No matter his 'office politics' with fellow teachers or union officials, if he really did lift some poor kids out of the barrio and gave them hope then he deserves every letter-character that is here. I visit Wiki several times a week for background information on topics. I do not expect this to be a fan club site but I do want more than his name, rank and serial number. I have heard many academic criticisms about Wiki in my PhD program. I have defended Wiki against academic criticism about lack of accuracy, etc. This is a “People’s Encyclopedia”. Rules are necessary for the quality of the material. I applaud you editors who take the time to ‘Watch over’ these articles to keep them as good as you can make them and to keep the bias out. Patnclaire (talk) 06:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I suspect that what he actually did in class, aside from being accessible, respectful of his students, etc., was not so important is how he did it: as he said, hard work for teacher and student alike, and dedication and love for the topic and teaching, and lots of attention to the students. kcylsnavS 23:32, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * John Taylor Gatto claimed in one of his talks that Escalante used a self-paced book series used by homeschoolers, which was designed to let kids learn advanced material at their own pace even when their parents don't know any math. But I haven't been able to find confirmation of this or a reference to the exact work used. --Blogjack (talk) 16:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Puerto Rico? And alumni of the University of Puerto Rico?
Article currently states that Jaime Escalante moved from Puerto Rico to California. Is this correct? Or did he move from Bolivia to California? Also appears in categories, although this does not coincide with his educational titles listed in article. Could someone confirm this? It seems odd, possibly incorrect.--Lawrlafo (talk) 03:41, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I have found an obituary in the Los Angeles Times indicating he moved from Bolivia to the US, and will eliminate the Puerto Rico reference.--Lawrlafo (talk) 03:45, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Bolivian-born American?
Given that Escalante clearly moved to the US after having completed higher education in Bolivia (as confirmed in the article itself from the diploma list), and that he moved back to Bolivia when his educational efforts in the USA faltered, how is he "American"?

I'm going with WP:BOLD and editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.53.66.97 (talk) 21:55, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

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