Talk:Jalil Muntaqim

He never was a political prisoner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7081:1502:CF86:5948:39F:6250:1468 (talk) 05:52, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Clean up
I started to do some clean up of this article but it definitely needs some more. The title of the article is Anthony Bottom (Jalil Abdul Muntaqim) but both names were being used. The name of the article should probably be changed just "Jalil Abdul Muntaqim" since that is how he self identifies. Hammersbach (talk) 14:27, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

His name is Anthony Bottom
His legal name is still Anthony Bottom
 * https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/who-is-parolee-jalil-muntaqim-and-why-has-he-been-in-the-news/ar-BB1fesnZ
 * Tondelleo Schwarzkopf (talk) 21:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

He never was a political prisoner.
His name is Anthony Bottom. 2603:7081:1502:CF86:5948:39F:6250:1468 (talk) 05:54, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Some vandalism still remains on this page.
I want to start this by thanking the good people who have been working to undo the vandalism that someone has been persistently adding and re-adding to this page. Thank you @Ks0stm for protecting the page. One bit of vandalism still remains though, and that's the claim that Muntaqim was not a political prisoner due to not being directly convicted for his politics. This is a patently absurd framing of what a political prisoner even is, and judging by these edits happening alongside an insistence on calling him "Anthony Bottom" (a name he hasn't used in decades) it seems as though there's nothing motivating these changes but malicious intent.

It's well-documented that the general membership of the Black Panther Party and the Black Liberation Army were intentionally targeted for arrest and incarceration by police and the FBI utilizing circumstantial, illegally obtained, and oftentimes fabricated "evidence". The user who insists that a political prisoner is only those charged with a crime directly relating to "political beliefs" is welcome to explain how that definition applies when a government/agency simply lies about its reasoning for targeting a person or group and fabricates evidence. Hopefully they can explain themselves without too many typos this time, maybe keep a thesaurus on-hand. SpaceHaitian (talk) 05:10, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2023
In the "Arrest and Imprisonment" section, third paragraph:

Delete line: "Despite his claims to the contrary, he was never a political prisoner as he was incarcerated for murder and not his political beliefs."

Replace: "still known by the state of New York as Anthony Bottom." with "still known by the state of New York by his given name." SpaceHaitian (talk) 05:17, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Semi-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. RudolfRed (talk) 02:03, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Legal name usage
I believe that Muntaqim's name is Anthony Bottom as according to this source which I am not sure if it meets WP:RS at all. I also am very unsure after reverting other editors about the change but am unsure. Could anyone clarify about the name change and provide a reliable source for the change? --  Wesoree  ( talk · contribs ) 22:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Anthony Bottom remains his legal name, but outside of legal documents and the statements of those who never respected Muntaqim in the first place, it is never used. As per the source you linked, in every aspect of his life outside of paperwork, he is Jalil Muntaqim. It's the name he publishes under, It's what his supporters and family call him, it's the name he uses to refer to himself, It's the name he's most often referred to by in the modern press. SpaceHaitian (talk) 03:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * His name the state of New York knows him as is Anthony Bottom. That is a statement of fact. Potsie791 (talk) 14:09, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, and the article still reflects that. However he hasn't gone by that name in decades, and nobody knows him by that name. Using the name "Anthony Bottom" as his primary name in the article would cause nothing but confusion. Many other Panthers, such as Assata Shakur and Muhammad Ahmad, are referred to in their respective Wikipedia pages by their chosen names, rather than their legal names. As these people don't put much stock in the US government anyways (or are actively avoiding it in Shakur's case) they generally don't care about getting a legal name change. Unless you are looking to get quickly banned by vandalizing all these other pages, I suggest you back off. SpaceHaitian (talk) 18:59, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

WP:SYNTH in "Arrest and imprisonment" section
I've removed this block of text as a violation of WP:SYNTH commentary, as the sources simply discuss the definititions of a political prisoner; none of them explicitly menion Muntaqim as far as I can see. OhNo itsJamie Talk 23:17, 10 September 2023 (UTC)


 * They don't explicitly mention Muntaqim, but the point of that passage was mainly to establish the way international human rights orgs generally define a political prisoner, addressing the confusion that seemed to exist surrounding what a political prisoner is. I figured it wouldn't be a WP:SYNTH violation in the same way this example passage isn't a violation:
 * ✅ Smith stated that Jones committed plagiarism by copying references from another author's book. Jones responded that it is acceptable scholarly practice to use other people's books to find new references.}}
 * Apologies if that's not the case. I would be happy to reword it in a way that wouldn't be a violation. SpaceHaitian (talk) 07:09, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you need to read WP:SYNTH again. None of the sources you've provided mention the subject. The "acceptable" example you cite from WP:SYNTH does not establish an exception to that. OhNo itsJamie Talk 13:34, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Potential COI sourcing?
Is the San Francisco Bay Chronicle article that gets cited a couple of times in the "Arrest and imprisonment" section really an independent and reliable source given that the author is Muntaqim himself? This seems like a pretty textbook conflict of interest, especially since it's only used to support statements that make Muntaqim's prosecution seem politically motivated (that his prosecution was part of Operation NEWKILL, and that the police made false statements about the 1971 murders being a revenge killing, which it is the only source for). Truecrimefan22 (talk) 14:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)