Talk:Jamaica/Archive 1

More Propaganda From Wikipedia
Once again, a top wikipedia member goes out of his/her way to try and spread more propaganda on the Jamaica page. Talking about a country's residents skin complexion? now this is an all time low for wiki, they just can't accept the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK on Jamaica stating that the country's population is over 90% black so now they've resort to talking about how the population isn't the normal type of black lol. I mean, should people go into countries like Italy, Puerto Rico, Brazil, Argentina, etc., and create a separate, skin complexion part? I guess they should write "These countries usually state that they have a White majority, although most residents have a dark-tanned skin complexion that usually people of Indian, Mexican, South Asian, etc., ...origins have"

I have no idea what this wikipedia moderator agenda is, but unless a similar article about skin complexion goes up for every other country on the wikipedia page, there's no reason why one should be on the Jamaica page.

Lets get this cleared
So apparently the CIA world factbook is incorrect when showing Jamaica's population data but correct when used in every other country? I've been using wikipedia for years now and over 95% of the data info they use here on countries are based off the CIA world factbook. So apparently the CIA's got it wrong on Jamaica but right everywhere else lol. And Jamaica's motto is based off the fact that all humans started out of Africa but branched off into many different races, tribes, creed, ect. but we're still united as one people (which we are cause we all camed from one land).

Btw, that whole "mixed" argument can be used on any country, about anyone/a specific race, ect. I've known various Brazilian "white people" that has a high amount of African admixture but still choose to call themselves white and that's what the government accept them as...so chill dude.


 * Jamaica's motto "Out of Many, One People" means that many people such as Africans, Syrians, Jews, Europeans, Chinese, Indians, came to Jamaica, but now they are ONE people: Jamaicans. It doesn't matter what kind of black or brown or Afro-Indian or Afro-Afro you are, except to peanut-brain racists. Hoserjoe 03:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Yea I am White and Black Both of my parents are from Jamiacan. Iam Mixed thats a Perfect Example. My Hair is Stright like white people but my skin color is tan like People from Mexico, or like people from Thailand. So know one really know what race iam.
 * Yes, mon, unu mus like some kin of chiney-boy! 19:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

noodles and oddles of fun
 * Yea, and all those races you just listed exist in every single country in the world, not just Jamaica, so basically everybody in the world is mixed if you wanna look at it that way. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.27.138 (talk) 15:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Unbelieveable
The official CIA world factbook states that the Jamaican population consists of 90+ percentage Black and 0.2 percentage White. The fact that a Top Wikipedia member went out of his/her way to modify this fact shows how little an average person should trust this site.Any Country/Thing that shows positiveness for Black people Wikipedia goes out of there way to modify it and try to include Whites in any successful story of Blacks.

Ok My father Is A white Jamaican. His Mother was Born in England and she move to jamaica when she was little. My Father's dad was born in Jamaica and His father was from England. So my Father Grew up in jamaica a White Jamican he had Blond Hair and brown eyes. He live mostly the life most white jamacian's live a nice houes with a servent. They are very stong in the christian Religon. My dad tells me most people in jamaica dont look at the color of poeple skin but of who they are thats why he like the way jamaica thinks more than america. And he tell many white jamaican still live there today so i think the hole only o.2 should be moved to 3%. Thank you.and also Many Chinese and Indian people live in jamaica iam talk it should say Chinese 4%, Indian 7%, white 3%, Black 90.1% thank you. Skateremorocker

Jamaica's population is officially over 90 percentage Black people, change that BS information y'all have in your Demographics_of_Jamaica's page. BABYLONS! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drake2u (talk • contribs) 22:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

What is the point of this deranged rant, other than to make people feel bad? How does "90% black" show "positiveness"? Remember that this is an encyclopedia, and there's no place for fantasy and insults of this kind. The Jamaica motto is "Out of Many, One People" which means there's no room for trying to figure out who is blacker than whom. There is no value in trying to suss out stuff like that. Hoserjoe 03:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

If "there's no room [in Jamaica] for trying to figure out who is blacker than whom," why is there still a "colorocracy" in Jamaica with light skin having a greater value over dark skin? Why is it still common for men to prefer "brownings" over dark skinned women? I'm not saying there is still overt racism like there was in the colonial times, but there are still the remnants of that in contemporary Jamaican society.

Also, why are there so many Jamaicans (including many on Wikipedia) who believe that most Jamaicans are mixed? It's as if they took the story of the priveliged class of Jamaica (which consists of many people of mixed ancestry), and transformed that into the story of all Jamaicans. How many times has someone put a sentence in the demographics alleging that most Jamaicans are mixed, while the facts clearly show that at least 90% of Jamaicans are of UNMIXED African ancestry? Vgmaster 11:54, 20 April 2007 (EST)

The problems of Jamaica don't stem from who is blacker than whom (is PJ Paterson, the privileged former PM, too black or not black enough? Does Portia Simpson Miller have 'good' hair, or not 'good' hair? Is her nose 'too wide' or not 'too wide'?). Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, so if it's just trendy perceived notions about colour and preferences you're presenting, and not measurable facts, this is not the right place. If you're claiming that light skin is more valued than dark skin, then you'll need to support your statement. Hoserjoe 07:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Opening comments
is a [[Template Uh, the Info Box on Jamaica is pretty shaky. Someone seems to have mixed it pretty thoroughly with Barbados.  Which makes me wonder about the rest of the page... 11/8/03

It seems like a lot of this content, and certainly the image, is directly copied from the CIA World Factbook - Jamaica site. I am planning on contacting the CIA to see if this was used with permission. - Shadowe - 05/23/04

Americans pay for the CIA's research so it's in the public domain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.237.32.82 (talk) 01:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

All information from the CIA World Factbook is allowed. - Shadowe - 05/23/04

Police seek Jamaican singer after armed attack on gay men

Warning to visitors: It's a criminal offense to engage in homosexual behaviour in Jamaica. Homos will be beaten to death by the citizens  Hoserjoe 03:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Hurricanes
Ivan is close to here. It is now 60 miles South of Montego Bay, Jamaica. --Patricknoddy 13:18, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)User:Patricknoddy --Patricknoddy 13:18, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)User:Patricknoddy 9:18 September 11, 2004 (EDT)

Copyvio
69.141.70.196, who thinks Rastafarians are stupid, added material straight from which is a copyvio, and therefore must be reverted on sight. Her also removed stuff he considers stupid, --SqueakBox 00:12, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)


 * It looks like the added text contains material from multiple sources. For instance, "By the end of the 16th century the Arawak population had been entirely wiped out, suffering from hard labor, ill-treatment and European diseases to which they had no resistance" appears to be copied from "http://www.pilotguides.com/destination_guide/central_america_and_caribbean/jamaica/sugar_plantations.php", and "Vast numbers died as a result of forced labor and thousands more committed suicide by hanging themselves or drinking poisonous cassava juice to escape from their bondage. Mothers are said to have murdered their children rather then let them grow up and suffer the slavery they had known under Spanish rule" quoted in, among other places. In my opinion the number of copyright violations justifies reversion of the page. User:Xero, please feel free to continue to edit it but write in your own words, please. &mdash; Knowledge Seeker &#2470; 00:35, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The recent edits continue to contain copyright violations (for example, "Jamaica is an independent country, completely self-governed since 1962 when the island ceased to be a British colony. Jamaica is governed by a parliamentary democracy, After Independence, Jamaica chose to be a part of the British Commonwealth, and to keep the Queen of the United Kingdom as the constitutional monarch, the titular head of the country. The Government of Jamaica was patterned on the Westminster model of government, and is composed of the Queen as head of state, and a bicameral Parliament. In Jamaica, the Governor General, who is appointed by Her Majesty upon the recommendation of the Prime Minister of Jamaica, represents the Queen" from  and "Jamaican Jews have contributed much to the island's rich history and cuture. Poet Daniel Lopez Laguna, 1635-1730, a survivor of the Spanish Inquisition who converted biblical Psalms into poems. A book of these poems, "Espejo Fiel de Vidas," The True Mirror of Life, was published in 1720 and holds the distinction of being the first book to be published in Jamaica under British rule" from . I'll revert these changes. &mdash; Knowledge Seeker &#2470; 01:14, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Rastafari
I have asked Xero to source his claim that only outsiders believe they think Haile selassie is God. According to him no self-respecting rasta would believe such a thing, --SqueakBox 01:39, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

I'm Jamaican and have a few Rastafarian friends, there are actually "sects" within the movement with what I feel are conflicting views. There are some who (you get the impression) do believe that and there are others who give you the impression that they believe otherwise. The two sects of the religion I'm aware of are the "Nyah Bhingi" and the "Bobos," the latter being a more radical and militant "denomination" within the movement. They do have similar views in some respects however, there are some obvious conflicting views between the two. There may be more sects within the movement however, I'm not aware of these, I plan to carry out further research in order to get more info. And let me add, not al Rastafarians practic/believe in the smoking of marijuana - which happens to be illegal in Jamaica!!!

Interesting! Perhaps you should edit Rastafari movement, SqueakBox 23:09, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

National bird
The "Doctor Bird" is listed as: Swallow-Tail Hummingbird Trochilus ploytmus at, the "Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Foreign Trade" website. Elsewhere (including in Wikipedia) Trochilus ploytmus is called the "Green-and-black Streamertail" and the Swallow-tail Hummingbird is listed as (e.g., Hummingbird) is said to be Eupetomena macrourus. I've stuck with the latin name, but not really sure what the best option is. Guettarda 20:21, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Slavery, etc.
This article is very sparse. The island's history of slavery should be fleshed out, and mention should be made of its role in the triangular trade. Some further reference to African/New World African, East Indian and Rastafari cultures are warranted, as well. deeceevoice 17:31, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board
I would like to announce the establishment of the Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board. Anyone with an interest in the Caribbean is welcome to join in. Guettarda 1 July 2005 04:07 (UTC)

Sean Paul
Is Sean Paul Jamaican?


 * Yes, he is. Have a look at the Sean Paul article.  Guettarda 6 July 2005 22:24 (UTC)

Sean Paul is what you Call a Mixed Jamican. His Fahter Is Is all white but he was born in jamican. and his Mother is Haf Chinese and Haf Black. So Sean Paul is Haf White And A quater Chinese and a Quater Black. That why most people look at him and say oh hes spanish or hes a White jamacian.skateremorocker

Demographics
The section on Demographics is COMPLETE nonsense:

Someone has concluded that Jamaican patois includes "syntax from various African languages, Spanish, Arawak, French, Chinese, Portuguese, and East Indian languages." There is no basis for this conclusion, and I propose to sort it out into something more logical. For instance, other than a few shards of broken pots, there's no trace of anything Arawak in Jamaica. Nor are there any Chinese, Spanish, East Indian, or Portugese words or syntax. Hoserjoe 06:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

"The majority of the population is of mixed race, of Black, Indian, Chinese and British, Irish and other European heritage. People of single race compose a tiny minority, although many members of minority groups (particularly Hindustani and Chinese) have managed to remain unmixed. Unmixed Indians comprise 1.7% of the population and unmixed Chinese are 1.3%. Mixed Indians are about 0.6%."

^^^ That is a gross exageration. Signficangly mixed race persons make up a small minority in Jamica, and the vast majority (at least 90%) are black and unmixed. The statistics given in the CIA world fact book are more acurate.

Can you stop with the use of "black" in an encyclopedia, please? In the UK, Pakistanis are called "black". In America, Africans are called "black". In Haiti, "black" people are either "mulatto" or "dark". It's not a useful term to use in an encyclopedia! And, in addition, it's not particularly useful information since it's almost impossible to measure. Hoserjoe 03:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/jm.html

Ethnic groups: black 90.9%, mixed 7.3%, East Indian 1.3%, white 0.2%, Chinese 0.2%, other 0.1%

_______________________________________________________

lol. The country Jamicia is very similar to South Africa's population! A MAJORITY Black (unmixed) population, with around a 8% Mixed raced group! Mixed raced people are in the vast minority! And it is very easily to tell them apart from the Black population whom in general are very dark in complexion!

________________________________________________________

On some sites you will find that Jamican's of African descent represent about 70-75% of the population and a couple of the Jamaicans Site Keywords Jamaican Sites. On Jamaican sites it states that 70-75% of the population is of African descent and the rest Being of mixed and Unmixed descent so how come most american sites claim that 90 0r 95% of the population is of straigt african descent. Being born and raised there,and also being to every place from St.Catherine to Ocho Rios to Downtown and Uptown Kingston and St.James and St.ann The list goes on i've seen so many places and met so many differnt people the population is mostly african but i sure as hell wouldn't say 90-95%. I think it makes more sense to get your information from the jamaican sites than making an educated guess about the demographics and the country overall population and it's people, I mean who would know the country best othet than jamaicans themselves, i cant make an hypothesis about america's demographics and it's people because i've only been heer so lond and i don't know the country's overall population and it's people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.112.205 (talk) 00:35, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if I agree... as a Jamaican I know for a fact that many mixed race people claim themselves as Black, for the sheer fact that there is a strong black pride, Back to Africa type movement on the island. For example, Damien Marley is obviously of mixed heritage but is very into the Rasta movement.

If Bob Marley is half-English (his father), does that mean he's "black", "brown", or "white"? In Jamaica, Marley would be called a brown-skin boy, so calling him "black" is not useful unless you're trying to change history. Hoserjoe 03:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes My fahter Is a white Jamaican and He has friends who are white Jamaicans Who swear there Black and not white. And most of the Population Thing on there is wrong also it should be Mixed 10.5%,Chinese 4%, White 5%,Indian 8%,Black 90.1%. should need to change it.
 * Uhh . . . that adds up to 127%

________________________________________________________

"Over the past several decades, hundreds of thousands of Jamaicans have emigrated, especially to the United States but also to Canada and the United Kingdom..... Due to Commonwealth Law and Jamaica's history with Britain, most Jamaicans that emigrate, go to the United Kingdom..."

Which is it? Do most of them go to the UK, or have they emigrated "especially to the United States"?

_______________________________________________________

Why in the world is Jamaica's involvement in the Winter Olympics included in the Demographics section? Also, the person who included this paragraph wrote the incorrect year of Jamaica's first participation in the Winter Games. Additionally, the team has never placed as high as fourth in the Olympics. Also, there's no possible way that the bobsled had any kind of effect on the Jamaican economy. Bobsledding can hardly be classified as an "industry". JediScougale 07:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

And Henry Morgan was chicken liver
How anybody could write a history of Jamaica and leave only one line or so about Henry Morgan is quite beyond me. And by the way is there a certain US general and high official of some repute? El Jigüe 2-9-06

No, not Chicken Liver, as we in Jamaica say "Duppy Pickney" (which amounts to just about the same as chicken or chopped liver), and what about one certain pirate a lad by the name of Edward Teach maybe you know him as "Blackbeard" and how about Port Royal - Once the richest seaport "this side of the pond" (or was the world), "the wickedest city on earth."

Education
this is an excerpt from the education part of the article

Presently the following categories of schools exist:

Early Childhood – Basic, Infant and privately operated pre- school. Age cohort – 2 – 4 years.

Primary – Publicly and privately owned (Privately owned being called Preparatory Schools (Prep). Age cohort 4 – 11 years.

Secondary – Publicly and privately owned. Age cohort 11 – 18 years.

Tertiary - Community Colleges, Teachers’Colleges, Vocational Training Centres, Colleges and Universities.

There is no free education in Jamaica, which results in an enormous amount of uneducated people, particularly in the more impoverished sections of the country.

How can schools be owned publically, but not be free?

>> While public schools may be free in other countries, its not so in Jamaica. It may help if you think of the public schools as not being completely reliant on the government - they do collect fees and receive private donations.

In Jamaica things are different than they are in the States, schools collect fees, but not tuiton. Tuitons are only paid in priavte schools.

Politics
Someone with more local knowlege than me needs to update "In February 2006, Portia Simpson Miller was elected by delgates of the ruling People's National Party, to replace the current Prime Minister, P. J. Patterson, at the end of March 2006 when he leaves office." now that she's taken office. I can tell that she's taken office, because I'm in Kingston, and all the right-wing radio talk-show hosts deplore her supposed feminine vanity continuously. Good luck to her and the country, if I can say that without being political. --Bill

Not to turn this political, the majority of her support came from what is called by her "the grass-roots or the bowels of the people," and personally I think a country's political future should not be determined LARGELY by the lower classes, they tend to be less interested in matters political (well at least here in Ja.).


 * ditto the current situation in Bermuda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.161.95.17 (talk) 17:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Time of the first settlement
I am not expert in Jamaica, but it seems that it most be wrong here, check with History of Jamaica "The original Arawak or Taino people from South America first settled on the island between 1000 and 400 BC." --Tejto


 * The problem is, there is no evidence anywhere of Arawak "settlements". As near as the National Museum and the National Heritage Trust have been able to conclude, Arawaks were fisher folk who moved about the coastline in small groups. The first colonials, the Spanish, were unable to persuade the Arawaks to do anything so they killed them all off. Every last one. Hoserjoe (talk) 09:16, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Crime rate?
I've read that crime has gotten so bad in Jamaica it's unsafe for tourists outside of walled resorts and that gangs have practically unchallenged control of vast areas of major cities, especially at night.

Links:

http://www.jamaicancaves.org/jamaica-crime.htm

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1147.html

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060501faessay85307/john-rapley/the-new-middle-ages.html My God, that is utter rubbish, that has to be the most untrue statement ever made, no such thing occurs here in Ja. Tourists (I know this for a fact) are just about as safe as anywhere in the world, if not safer! Let me ask one question, would you as a tourist feel comfortable in a "walled resort" with no exposure to the outside world, which you came to enjoy in the first place. And about "gangs" having" unchallenged control of vast areas of major cities" is trash in its purest form!!! As I think of it I get really upset, kindly get facts straight before you go around repeating garbage you hear from some under-read, "informatinally-challenged" and facts starved idiot on some crappy talk show or wherever you heard that swill. You had to be on the net to post that comment, google helps, if you are not sure what I mean, I mean LOOK IT UP!!! The Police in Ja. is making positive steps in an effort to stem the level of crime in the country, which has been on the decline since the new police commissioner (Lucius Thomas) has taken over. There are many award-winning efforts to stem crime and violence, which happens to be a hugely exaggerated problem in Ja. It does exist, but not to the extent the media wants it to look, where do you think this is, the wild west? -Kamron


 * Name calling and hyperbole does your argument no good. Utter rubbish? Check the links I posted. One is from the Dept. of State (US), another from Foreign Affairs magazine, whose essayists are well known and respected and whose readership includes political leaders around the world. Did you even bother to follow the links I posted? I thought not. Pride in one's country is to be commended, but in the future, instead of posting knee-jerk reactionary drivel, try following up with some vetted sources of your own. I would like to have seen links to credible sites that back up the claim that Jamaica's police have a handle on the gang problems in the major cities. Let's see stats. If the US State Department has concerns about the crime rate in Jamaica, then I would agree there's a serious misconception somewhere.


 * BTW, widespread gangs having de facto political control of major cities is not confined to Jamaica; Mexico and Brazil are also having serious problems right now in some cities. The Foreign Affairs article discusses the syndrome... it is only one expert's opinion, granted.


 * -- jlowery


 * I happen to know by personal experience, as well as other sources, that it is safe enough for tourists to walk outside of the walled resorts. However, there are many theories about the gangs in Jamaica, so I suppose that part can be left out for the time being. As for the crime in Jamaica, it is a real concern, and quite verifiable, so that should probably be included. Nancysing 23:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The probability that a tourist out for a walk will run into criminals is low enough. The real crime in Jamaica is in public corruption and the drug trade. The only way to get something done in Ja is to threaten to shoot someone. And that happens about 5 times a day. But a tourist out for a walk inspecting the higglers' wares, or visiting a nightclub, is not likely to have any problems. Jamaican justice can be quick: the citizens will kill a robber (homsexuals, too) on the street if they catch one in the act. They will literally beat him to death on the street. The local citizens will protect tourists in trouble (in the daytime, at least, except for homos) Hoserjoe 08:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Sectarianism
While it is understandable that people have their own religious beliefs and disagree with others, we cannot accept them using wikipedia as a vehicle for sectarian prosletizing. For example, the phrase "Protestant denominations, which is evidence of Jamaica's active and lively intellectual climate. Roman Catholicism, a remnant of early Spanish immigration from the time of the Inquisition" clearly associates Prostestantism with 'lively intellectual's and Catholicism with 'the Inquisition'. This is pure sectarianism - associating one religious group with negative events in order to promote another by association with positive qualities. The same edit goes on to describe Rastafarianism as 'unorganized, cult like'. It is more neutral and relevant to point out that both Protestantism and Catholicism were brought to Jamaica as part of the colonization process of Britain and Spain respectively. 'Cult like' as a phrase has no meaning and 'unorganized' is simply false (decentralised does not mean unorganized). It is pointless using the Jamaica page to prosecute a religious war of words. It is sufficent to link the words to their respective articles so that readers can learn more.
 * How can you be sure that Christianity was brought by England and Spain? African Christianity is easily a thousand years older than Europe! Hoserjoe 07:58, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. I'm also not sure about Jimmy Cliff playing a "psychopathic reggae-musician who gets caught up in crime" either!--Zleitzen 08:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC) maybe it


 * So what would you call Jimmy Cliff's character who goes about shooting helpless people, without any guilt, so he can be a public bad-boy and a star? He's a plain everyday psychopath, in any language. His character is that of true-life psychopathic criminal, Ivan Martin, who left a trail of murder throughout Jamaica in the late 1940's.


 * It's fraudulent to claim that Rastafarianism is not unorganized. Rastafarianism is totally disorganized and varies from one village to the next. It changes from one year to the next.  Nothing is written down. Rastas don't mind this. It's part of the package. Hoserjoe 08:17, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Arawak survival?!
"The original Arawak or Taino people from South America first settled on the island between 1000 and 400 BC. Although some claim they became virtually extinct following contact with Europeans, others claim that some survived." Oh really?! What legitimate source claims that? I just completed W.J. Gardner's "A History of Jamaica" a month or two ago and the clear implication from Gardner is that the Arawaks were completely whiped out under Spanish rule. This claim needs sourced --Raogden 21:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

The Jamaica National Heritage Trust is trying to find any traces of Arawaks, but not a lot has turned up. I don't see how anyone can claim there's evidence of Arawaks. The fact that Jamaicans eat breadfruit or ackee is not evidence of Arawak culture. Breadfruit was brought from the South Pacific by the Brits, and ackee is a poisonous trash tree that will kill your ass dead if not cooked proper. Hoserjoe 04:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

When I visited Montego Bay last, I was given a tour of different properties, and the women we were with was very insistant that there was no way that everyone of these people were extinct. She went on to talk about a grouop of people that lived in a mountainous region that were indigenous to Jamaica. She said that they are a sovereign people like the Native Americans in the United States, with their own government and their own way of life. I am doing some research on this and would realy like to know more about these people. I got the impression from this women that the people she was refering to were the Arawak Indians. This was a representative that was from JamPro. --Baxley8 03:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

There's neither hide nor hair of Arawaks remaining anywhere. She was probably thinking about Maroons from Cockpit country, or maybe some Rastas on Quickly motorbikes come down from the hills. With their locks, and a cloud of smoke around their heads, they maybe resemble "natives" like in a Hollywood movie. But Arawaks? No, not even close. 02:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much this will help with my research. But I do have one question, you don't think that it was possible for anyone to excape, or move away, or marry/sleep with someone of another race (such as the europeans) and continue their race? It's very sad. Can you tell me any more about what happened? Thanks again for the info!!--Baxley8 19:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Somewhat fittingly, they survive in the Jamaican coat-of-arms. -24.149.203.34 (talk) 10:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

small
through the small nation jamaica been a rich in culture

Questionable Circumstances??
"It remained the capital until 1872, when the city of Kingston was named capital under questionable circumstances."

Does anyone know what these circumstances were? I feel like this answer is very vague. I'm new to wikipedia, but I don't think it is a NPOV statement? YoniLevin 17:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

You can read about the drama by looking up Kingston in Wikipedia, where you'll see: "In 1755 the governor had decided to transfer the government offices from Spanish Town to Kingston. But, it was thought by some to be an unsuitable location for the Assembly in close proximity to the moral distractions of Kingston, and the next governor rescinded the Act. . ." In other words, Kingston was a great place to drink rum and chase big-bottom girls. Hoserjoe 03:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

National Rum
I believe that the "National rum" line at the bottom of the list of "nationals" should be deleted and/or reworked into a different section because:

1. It's uninformative. (An answer of "it doesn't have one" is given.)

2. It's nonsensical and therefore becomes confusing or possibly even comical. (Most countries have national birds and national flowers, but I don't know of any country having a national rum.)

3. It could be seen as stereotypical and therefore offensive.

Proposed WikiProject
There is now a proposed WikiProject for the Caribbean area, including Jamaica, at WikiProject Council/Proposals. Interested parties should add their names there so we can determine if there is enough interest to start such a project in earnest. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

republic
Jamaica is to become a republic by 2007 per announcement of prime minister in September 2003. (EB 2006)

Really? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.132.78.94 (talk) 09:27, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

I need a source for this if its true. Blackjays 04:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Crime
I think a section needs to be on the crimes that commonly occur in Jamaica against gays/lesbians. New articles can be found here:. Additionally, there should be a link to the wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Jamaica.

Warning: It's a crime in Jamaica to BE a homo. So crimes against homos can occur openly on the street. Homos should not be obvious in public. Hoserjoe 07:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

If anything, there should be a section or paragraph DISCOURAGING "open" homosexuals from even stepping foot in Jamaica. Blackjays1 05:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I would add something under the "Crime" section, at a minimum mentioning crimes against LGBT persons and referencing the LGBT rights in Jamaica page. The page appears to be semi-protected; can a more trusted user please make this addition? Steve Radant (talk) 01:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Moving "Emigration"
Hey guys, the page on Jamaican Diaspora is pretty empty, and it's because most of the info that should be there is under Emigration on this article instead. Should we move it? If there are no oppositions in a week, I'm planning to move it. Chrysaora 16:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

No, leave it here. People is Jamaica's biggest export. 02:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletion vote
Please see the deletion vote for List of Jamaican Americans at Articles for deletion/List of Bahamian Americans. Badagnani 03:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

DEMOGRAPHICS.......
Why did the CIA website change the demographics? with the amount of minorities in jamaica they need to change that crap..as a light skinned jamaican (brown to be exact) i noticed that darker jamaicans have a problem with the growing amount of minorites i had a problem believing that the black part was 90+. so after searching

i found this on jamaica's section in the university of the west indies website that LOOKS LIKE THE REAL DEAL.. THE DEMOGRAPHIC PART LOOK'S AS IT SHOULD. THOUGH I THINK WHITES AND CHINESE AND OTHER SHOULD BE MUCH HIGHER.. here is what they give 76.3% African descent, 15.1% Afro-European, 3.4% East Indian and Afro-East Indian, 3.2% Caucasian, 1.2% Chinese and 0.8% Other. and also population on wikipedia is wrong. change it cause UWI put: 2,754,000 (2002 est.)

there is no way they could be wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.12.199 (talk) 00:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

This is exactly what i was stating in the previous paragraph about jamaica's ethnic makeup and it's population. On most jamaicans site it states that there are more people than 2.6 million people on the island around 2.7 to 2.8 and its ethnic makeup is mostly african. There is also a large Afro-european population and a growing Cauascian and East Indian and Afro East Indian and Also a Chinese Jamaican Population and a growing Lebanese Pouplation and much more.I don't see how they can get it so wrong when it's on the Jamaicans Site stating the real population and it's ethnic makeup.

Bruce Golding is not Prime Minister yet!
While it seems Golding's party has won the election he does not become Prime Minister until he's sworn in by the Governor-General. Please don't jump the gun! Also, the current PM is refusing to concede defeat according to press reports so it's possible she will continue as PM until her party is defeated by a vote of confidence in the Jamaican parliament or, more likely, until the recounts are completed. If and when she does concede Golding becomes Prime Minister-designate until he is sworn in. Reginald Perrin 00:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Emigration split
I've been watching the Enigration section for awhile,a nd have noticed it growing larger and larger. Much of the info is not directly related to Jamaica itslef, such as descriptions of US Labor Day celebrations in NYC. The Jamaican diaspora is a stub at this point, and one with no sources at all. I would like to split most of the details of overseas info to that article, and hopefully we can find some sources to go along with it. - BillCJ 05:47, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. As this is the country overview article an important topic like emigration should be covered in its own article and this article should contain a short summary of the main article on Jamaican emigration. At the moment there the articles Jamaican American, Jamaican-Canadian and British African-Caribbean community with some sources and a bit more of information which could be used to expand the Jamaican diaspora article. VirtualDelight 11:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I think Cool Runnings should be mentioned in the article
Cool Runnings --Krakko 23:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Cool Runnings has very little significance to the island itself, its just an American media cash cow trying to get some revenue from the popularization of being Jamaican at the time. It would fit better in our National Bobsled team page Krayziegunts (talk) 04:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Skin Complexion
The recent addition on skin complexion has rightfully been removed, though the best reason was not mentioned: Original Research. In addition, the entire section was very subjective and biased, and does not reflect anything other than pure personal opinion. Some or even all of the factors expressed may well be completely true, but without verifiable sources, it cannot remain on Wikipedia. Even if all the other points mentioned in the deletion are addressed, it would still need to be sourced properly before being allowed to remain. - BillCJ 12:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

1. There is a strong correlation in Jamaica (and most of the western world) between skin complexion and social status. Who denies this? 2. This phenomenon is usually referred to as 'racism' but I refrained from using judgemental language, due to the complexity of the subject. 3. The name 'Ackees' was not chosen by accident. I know what it is I am writing about. 4. The paragraph is it's current length because the phenomenon is a significant, obvious and an important element of Jamaican society. 5. Contributors are welcome to edit the paragraph, (make it shorter, more accurate, etc) but not to remove it. 6. I challenge any contributor to factually disprove a single sentence in this paragraph.

Ackees 13:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Jamaica is a racist place - even the dogs on the street in Kingston are racist. However, nobody cares too much about it, and people still say "Good Morning" 10:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoserjoe (talk • contribs)


 * I challenge you to factually prove every sentence of your paragraph. Now, while I do not doubt that it exists as it does every where else, but to accord it such a place in this article suggests that it is an on-going problem. As Bill said above, this is mostly OR, and if you are serious about introducing this into this article, I strongly suggest you locate a few academically published articles to bring weight to your statement. Sephui 13:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Akees, please remember: The threshold on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Even if everything you said is true, you cannot add it without credible, verifiable sources. - BillCJ 16:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * BillCJ. Do not patronise me. What I have said is 'verifiable'. Go to the list of Jamaican Prime Ministers. How many of them are 'dark-skinned' by Jamaican standards? Only one. That is the verification. It is you who are biased. You are removing this paragraph not because it is not 'verifiable', but because you personally don't like what is being said as a result of your own subjective bias. I only have to look at your page to see where your bias lies - it is as plain as a picture - and a picture is worth a thousand words. You are applying a double-standard. If you were being sincere you would systematically go through the entire article removing every sentence that was not 'verified'. How dare you interfere in a subject of which you have literally no knowledge. As I said, go to the list of Jamaican Prime Ministers. How many of them are 'dark-skinned'? Ackees 01:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * So now you know my complete personal history from my user page? Who is being patronizing? Oh, and I only have one picture on my user page, and it was a gift! - BillCJ 02:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Dearest fellow Wikers, I have seen the error of my ways. Please accept my sincere and humble apologies. I have now included 10 purely academic references, including some from things called 'books' (as opposed to just ripping stuff from the CIA facebook). These 10 references now mean that my humble little paragraph contains half of all the references cited on the page!! Further attacks on my academically well-founded paragraph will result in a citation for vandalism. And like I said, a picture is worth a thousand words.Ackees 02:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for provinging the sources. I will be wading through them as I have time to verify the content, and possiblebly adding counter sources. Btw, it's counter-productive to threaten vandalism charges in content disrputes, and makes it sound like you're from "bak a Mocho". And you are welcome to add unsourced tags to, or even remove, any items in the article of which you question the validity. Oh, and I always find it odd that those who decry judging by the color of one's skin are so quick to judge others who disagree with them by their color. My parents raised me not to judge people by their color, and now you want me to judge the PMs by their color? What kind of ganja are your smoking? THat's the most racist crap I've heard in awhile, and you'll just ignore it because you've decided I'm biased. You no absolutely nothing about me, yet you ask me how I dare you interfere in a subject of which you have literally no knowledge. That is quite a presumptuos statement, and it proves your own racial bias quite well. - BillCJ 03:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You keep adding to that section, and it'll soon be half the article, to go with have the references! I'm already in the process of splitting off the Emigrant section to another article because of its length. Perhaps you should conseder moving it to its own or another page (such as Race in Jamaica), as I'm sure the section will grow as others add other valid points of view. A smaller summary can be left in its place, with a DAB ilink to the main article. Respectfully asking, even tho I'm white and can't possible understand the importance of the issue to Jamaicans~ - BillCJ 03:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * BillCJ|Up to this moment you have still not provided a single 'counter' to my paragraph.


 * To answer your charges. I have not 'judged' Jamaica's PMs. I have simply noted the correlation between skin colour and social status. And, as I have not 'judged' them, you cannot accuse me of racism, after all, being the Prime Minister is not in itself a 'character flaw' - I wasn't accusing them of some crime. However, although you say, 'I know nothing about you', I note that you describe yourself by a word which means 'pure' 'light' and 'clean'. Self reflection is such a difficult habit to acquire.


 * How odd that you should accuse me of being 'racist', yet in the same breath claim that you can't appreciate the importance of 'the issue' to Jamaicans. You need to make up your mind.


 * I did not judge you by your colour. I had no idea that you had a pale complexion until you started boasting about it (believe me, I'm not impressed). I was merely drawing attention to the clear bias towards a certain romanticised, euro-centric ideal of beauty that is reflected on your page. You might be green for all I know, but your tastes are your tastes. If you don't want people to know what you truly, madly, deeply love, then don't exhibit it.


 * I find it sad that you will be devoting your precious and valuable time to 'adding counter sources'. Presumably, this means that you'll present studies proving that the darker a person's skin is, the more likely they are to be rich and powerful. Oh dear! I really ought to warn you that, with the world's political-economy structured the way it is, you've set yourself be a very, very, very lengthy and tiresome task. Perhaps if we come back in a hundred years you'll have something to show for your efforts.


 * Instead of all that bluster you could always just admit that you were wrong and try and adjust to the more accurate world view I have afforded you. Most of your comments mean that the 'thanks' you initially gave ring somewhat hollow. One Love xx Ackees 04:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * A couple of independent, neutral comments addressed to Ackees : refs 3 and 5 don't go to the place that they say they do. Either you've made an error with the URL, or you're trying to pull a fast one. I'll assume good faith...but please correct it. Secondly, As far as I can see, you've provides citest that, except for the above, back up individual small components of your paragraph, but your overall point that skin complexion is equivalent with caste and social status isn't supported by references (unless I missed one, and if so, feel free to point me in the right direction). It looks to me that you've cobbled together a number of cites that really have little to do with your overall point and used them to come to a conclusion that you're trying to promote, which is "original research" and is not appropriate here. You've got till tomorrow to back up with cites your core premise, else the whole section will be coming out and will be put here on the talk page until its inclusion can be fully discussed. Also, in your statement at the top of this section, you said that contributors are not permitted to remove your paragraph. That is not so. Our policies allow unverified and original research information to be removed. Don't go accusing someone of vandalism when they're upholding our policies. Lastly, please read our consensus policy: what's supposed to happen when someone objects to your contributions is that you're supposed to come here to the talk page and discuss them, not keep adding them back in. By my account, you're reverted 3 times now, which puts you on the verge of being blocked for violation of our WP:3RR three reversion rule.  AK Radecki Speaketh  03:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * In Ackee's defense, he did add the references on the last revert, so I'm not going to quibble on that one. He addressed the primary reason for the reversions in that edit, which was a lack of sources. P.S. I'm sorry if some of my above comments may have cossed WP:NPA - I'll try to keep my comments toned down from now one. - BillCJ 03:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, first off, I have to take my hat of to BillCJ who came to my defence. Wasn't expecting that, considering that moments before he was describing me as a racist.


 * Now, as for Mr Radecki '. Let's get straight to the point. I've introduced a paragraph that looks at the 'common knowledge' that, in Jamaica, as in virtually the entire world, there is a clear correlation between skin complexion and social status (measured by any number of factors, from income - to political power). However, your assertion that I claimed that 'skin complexion is EQUIVALENT to with caste and social status' is false in point of fact. Why, because:


 * 1. I did not use the term 'equivalent' - because this is not an 'equivalence'. Nor can they be. Skin colour is a completely different thing to social status. What I said was that there is a CORRELATION. This means that you can 'relate' the two things. Which is different to saying that they are 'the same' or that they are 'equivalent'. In fact, I specifically pointed out that the last but one PM of Jamaica was dark-skinned.


 * 2. I did not mention the term 'caste' at all.


 * So, if you intend to contradict my points then the very first thing you must do is cite them accurately. Your assertion that I have 'cobbled together' a number of cites that have 'little to do with' my point is also false. I was actually challenged by BillCJ to cite every one of my sentences. I have gone to academic sources of the highest quality, each of which is exactly pertinent. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, my cites are by far the most numerous and academic on the Jamaica page. In these circumstances I think that your threat to block me would be a misuse of your administrative status, particularly as 'administrators must not block users with whom they are engaged in a content dispute'. I have not violated Wikipedia policy in any way. All I have done is contribute, defend my contribution with a bit of dry humour and backed up my contribution with references.Ackees 04:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Copied (with additions) from my talk page: First, you didn't read my comments very well. I said, "I'm not getting involved in debating the actual issue here, I'm concerned about how you're handling the process, and you're running afoul of our policies." I'm not disagreeing at all with your content. The only thing that you were being threatened with a block over was 3RR, and as I'm not involved in the content dispute, I'm not at all abusing any authority. I'm questioning if your content, the way it is presented, is appropriate in terms of our policies. I don't think you understand our original research (which we abreviate as "OR") policy very well. Just because something is "common knowledge" doesn't mean that you write about it from your personal common knowledge. It means you don't just look at a series of photographs and make your own analytical conclusion here from them. OR means that you don't present your own conclusions, even if there is evidence to support them. We only report here what others have concluded elsewhere. What you present you have to demonstrate that it has been presented by other sources...that means your conclusion, your point, has been presented by others and can be backed up by reliable, verifiable sources. That's why I asked if you would point me to the specific reference where someone else has stated that this is an issue. I don't care how dull or how controversial a subject, our process needs to be followed. As far as removing it, if I remove it the reason isn't that I disagree with your subject or your conclusions, it's only that you haven't demonstrated that other sources are stating your point, in other words, it would only be removed if it fails WP:V. So, again, I ask you: point me to the specific reference that gives your overall point. Thanks.  AK Radecki Speaketh  16:12, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

skin complextion
I see nothing wrong with what the person wrote in that section i mean for all i know it could be true and for your information jamaica 90% black lol bullshit its 76%. you must be one of them darkie jamaicans who cant except the demographic change. and i hope they fix the population part cause i know it is wrong. as i stated before the university of the west indies said this themselves and i gave the link so to the person who made this page needs to look it over and see what i and most others have been trying to say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.12.199 (talk) 22:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

population numbers have gone up...
To whoever takes care of this page the cia world fact book came to its sences and put the correct population outcome. you should do the same. PLEASE!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.12.199 (talk) 15:36, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I doubt the CIA World Factbook kept the old numbers just to be stubborn or something. It's more about having relialbe sources to quote, especcially official government ones. It's the same thing here. I you have a direct5 link to the CIA factbook page, that would nice, and I'll try to update the numbers in a day or two. (Busy in real life, so I don't have time right now to do a search.) - BillCJ 16:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Here you go Bill https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/jm.html thats the link for you. and for the demographics:http://www.uwi.edu/territories/jamaica.aspx thats where i got my info and i will beileve no other website. also how about some more pictures. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.12.199 (talk) 02:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I'll try to get to it in a few days, as I can. Feel free to try to add the info, but if you get to a point were you aren't sure what to do, just revert, and I'll check it over later. As to the UWI source, if the information is reliable (peer-reviewed or or published by a reliable publisher, then it can be used. If another reliable source disagrees, then we either have to include both sources, or leave them both out. We can't choose our sources because we like what it says, but rather based on whether it is verifiable and from a reliable source]. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ 02:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Jamaicans are majority mixed
LOL. This has got to be the biggest joke I ever heard. There defintely is a mixed race group like the prime minister who make up about 7% of the population. I can find no credilbe sources that even support these claims as the ones in the article are all broken, which doesn't surprise because the links probabily never existed. I don't see any significant difference in terms of skin color between most jamaicans and other africans. Are Jamaicans dark as say people from Ghana, no, but do Jamaicans look like people who are multiracial or mixed like alicia keys and mya, definietely not, and the ones who do are that 7%. As for Nigerian being dark, anyone who thinks this probably knows nothing about Nigeria, and Africa, it is a shame to say but often I find that there are more black westerns who think that all africans look like robert mugabe, while they forget about nelson mandela's and kofi anna's(who buy the way is from Ghana); than there white counterparts. In fact that is a totally different topic, but the majority of Jamaicans probably do not even orginate from Nigeria or Ghana, they probabbly come from the interior of africa in place like Chad, Sudan, Rwanda, south libya or even the Congo as when slavery was on the slaves were people who came from small villages that did not really belong to any nation. At that time there were several powerful nations who traded slaves, but those slaves were always from the interior. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.27.30 (talk) 21:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Visually, the current prime minister looks to be what Jamaicans call a "red man". These people are usually descended partly from the Maroons, who were children of escaped slaves who went to the mountains and mixed with the surviving Amerindians (Arawaks in Jamaca's case). As to the rest of what you say, I'm sure there's alot of truth in it - there are few people anywhere in the world who don't have a mixture of races somewhere in their background, especially those in former colonial countries. As to the slaves being from the deep interior of Africa, the evidence of reserachers, especially linguists, seems to confirm the Jamaican slaves came mostly from West Africa (Nigeria, Ghana, etc.), tho not necessarily the coastal regions - Africa is a BIG continent, and Nigeria and the COngo do stretch deep into the continent. Anyway, if you have some reliable sources that cover what you've written, it would be an interesting read, and perhaps there's something that can be used here. - BillCJ 02:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)




 * A "red man" in Jamaica is similar to "brown". There is no evidence anywhere of Africans mixing with Arawaks. In fact, there's hardly even a stick of evidence of Arawaks.  If you find some, you will be up there with Darwin for excellent research.  But so far, nothing but a zero.  And the current Prime Minister, mark you, is without a doubt a black woman (definitely), NOT a man.  The previous Prime Minister was even more definitely a man of serious blackness. Mind you facts - this is how challenging rumours get started! Hoserjoe (talk) 09:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice looking woman! Also, you might want to read Jamaican Maroons, which states: Maroons in Jamaica intermarried with Taíno and Miskito people from Central America. - BillCJ (talk) 09:20, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * As an experienced Wiki person, you should know better than to use unsubstantiated folklore, rumour, and legend as a Wiki source! Jamaican history is filled with undocumented and bogus nonsense, and your source is one good example. There is not a shred of evidence anywhere that any Arawaks survived past the mid-16th century, nor any evidence that any Maroons who date from the mid-17th century, ever met any Arawaks, let alone merged with Arawaks.  Maroons are likely Nigerian or thereabouts in origin, and stubbornly remain(ed) so to this day. But if you can find a reputable source that says otherwise . . . Hoserjoe (talk) 21:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * As an experienced Wiki editor, I know that either claim needs a verifiable source. If your source is as good as your info on who is Prime Minister, then it's probably not worth much. Anyway, provide your sources, and will use them, if they pan out. Don't, and we can't. - BillCJ (talk) 00:27, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Rahtid! I went on vacation and the Prime Minister changed. Last I heard she was contesting the election result. Well, we fondly remember the defeated PM an her previous noisy self! Never mind - the Arawaks are still dead and gone 400 yrs with only a few chicken bones to mark their former presence. If you find any other evidence, we will gladly receive it, like the news of Portia being given the boot. Hoserjoe (talk) 21:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

European Origins
Considering the fact that most Jamaicans who post here seem to think the idea that most Jamaicans are mulattoes, and the fact that most Jamaicans don't look like nations that have majority mulatto populations like dominican republic and puerto rico and cuba. In addition to the fact that none of the sources most cited for demographics seem to disagree that Jamaica is a anything less than 90% black and to add to the fact that every link was either fake or broken. I think the entire claim should be removed. The idea that Jamaica is 90% mixed is highly misinforming to people who know nothing of the island. As for Jamaicans being lighter because of racial mixing, the claim is simple a claim because there seems to be no genetic test done and any test done could be subject to error. Further wiki does not try to interepret claims, ie most brazilians claim to be white, even many who'm are known to be mixed with black or who may be considered black in america and britain, we simply present claims of others. So if 60% of brazilians claim to be white that is what we say they are unless they look obviously black. The truth is virtually all people in the western and mediterrain world are mixed with some other race, and to state this in every article is just posting useless information that cannot be proved. IMO claiming Jamaicans are mixed is just trying to stir up trouble and seems to be consistent with an unspoken policy in wiki that seems to want to, as other posters suggested, deny the "blackness" of certain peoples. Ie. I have seen examples where a minister in Dominican Republic stated something like 90% of Dominicans are african descent but a poster was attacked for posting that, and held to unnecessary standards to prove it even though it was right there. If I were to see such an effort made to assert the whiteness of dominicans, I doubt it would face any resistance. Anyways what should you expect from a site run by 20 year old white boys https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/jm.html#People http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107662.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihba (talk • contribs) 02:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Noboby said that jamaicans think mullatoes are the major population we all know that black is but what most of us are trying to say is that its only 76% black the rest is everything else. once agian we have chinese, east indian, white(english,irish scotish,german,.(arab)lebanese,syrian. and mixed race(mullatoes,mixed indian, black, chinese etc) and those have been growing. ive givin links from some websites what more do you people want. more links? i can go fetch some but its not like you people will listen except for bill) its not like we are like that poor carib country haiti that has little to no ethnic diversity. we have lots some people need to open there eyes and look and read cause most of what i get are from jamaican run websites ok. just telling how i feel no disrespect i just dont wanna see my countrys demographics fucked up anymore.;-) here is a link showing all the ethnic groups i listed: http://www.jamaicagleaner.com/pages/history/story0055.htm thats just chinese but if you click the other links it will show you the others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lizainfini (talk • contribs) 16:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Lizainfini you must understand that Haiti has a much larger population than Jamaica does so it appears as if their is little ethnic diversity but Haiti probably has more mulattos and europeans than Jamaica does. Most white-descended Haitians left the country because of the turmoil to the U.S and France so they're not counted in the census and many mulattos in Haiti classify themselves as black because of the history regarding the country. That messes up the census quite a bit. The small percentage of the Haitian population that are mulattos are most likely more numerous than their counterparts in Jamaica (do the math). As I said..mulattos appear more prominent in Jamaica because the population is much smaller than Haiti's. Fact of the matter is that both countries are largely black and that's all that matters. gulag (talk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.199.241 (talk) 01:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

If the demographics changed that much we should have seen a change in the CIA factbook reports as they get new numbers every year directly from the countries. Pretty much the reason why it is considered one of the best sources for data like demographics is because it tends to be quite impartial. For example they recognize that most Cubans and Columbians and dominicans are mulattoes rather white (which is what they claim to be) and they recognize that mosy north africans are actually berbers rather than arabs. Once again the link you provided did not provide any specific detail about demographic percentage, which is part of the problem with your claims. You are saying one thing but your sources don't agree with them. For example most people wouldn't consider 2000 a wave of immigrants in an island of 2.4 million black people. From what I get from the article it seems more like chinese were assimilated into the main culture rather the other way around. For example, mexico was 10% black in 1900s but most of them were assimilated so we don't say that all their desdents are mixed because they don't really look all that different from other mexicans. Same goes for arabs and black in spain, italy and those other countries. It is conforming with a policy here at wiki. We don't point out every single drop of non-pure blood and conclude that the person is mixed b/c for it is impossible and become pointless to say so and so was 1/8 irish, 1/8 black, 1/8 mexican(who was half black) 1/8 jamaican (who was quater peurto rican)...etc. no one wants to read an article like that and it tells me nothing about ancestry. Also my personal experience indicates to me that Jamaican Chinese are better off than average jamaicans and tend to leave cause the country has lots of violence, but that is IMO and not necessarily fact.

Anyways I'll quit babling and get straight to the point. The CIA factbook is usually considered to be the autority on demographics for wiki because they are alot better gathers of infomation than we are and than newspapers, etc. because they go straight to the source, the government of Jamaica, and those are the number we use. It is not our job to interpret information, unless it is blantanly wrong. And when I saw hurrican hit jamaica, all of the people their looked dark black like that singer bean man, not like Sean Paul or the prime minister, and I think that is most peoples perception of Jamicans, anything else would be misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihba (talk • contribs) 21:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

ok ihba i guess your right.;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lizainfini (talk • contribs) 22:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Bondservants
I just want it to be known that a part about bondservants who came to Jamaica should be added to the article too, since they did in effect play a major role in our history.


 * Then find a reliable source, and start writing. Or give the source here, and let someone else look at it. - BillCJ (talk) 20:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Billcj
thanks for eracing that. that idiot just got under my skin thats all made me show my ugly side but its not just here its other pages to... anyways thanks agian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.56.197 (talk) 21:38, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

As a Rastafari Jamaican...
As a Rastafari Jamaican, i'm taking offence to whoever keeps editing out the Rastafari religion out of the 'religion sect' paragraph. Rastafari has been an integrated part of the Jamaican culture since its begginings in the 1930's and this type of behaviour is unnacceptable. You don't have to agree with my religious views, but please show my religion it's respect. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drake2u (talk • contribs)


 * You can start by not disrespecting other religions yourself. Removing other information to make way for yours is not the way to make your point. If you have a problem, discuss it. THe material you've been adding is not being removed because anyone dislikes your religion, but because it is unsourced, poorly-written, and duplicates material in the "Culture" section of the article. I don't know why it's there instead of in the Religion section, butbeing disruptive is not the way to get your voice heard. I'm discussing making changes to the "Religion", Demographics", and "Culture" sections below, and you're welcome to participate in a civil manner. - BillCJ (talk) 19:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Religion reorganization
I'd like to reorder some of the sections in the article, including splitting off the Religion section from demographics to its own section, as it is in manyt national articles. We'd also include the religious portion of the Rastafari text in the "Culture" section. - BillCJ (talk) 19:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable. --John (talk) 20:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, I've brought up creating a dedicated article on "Religion in Jamaica" with another editor. To this point, the only such article is Islam in Jamaica, but it is skimpy as it is on hard (reliable) sources. That article could probably be merged into the new article, and any other "Religion in Jamaica" stubs that are out there, if there are any. (The oldest of those stubs would be better moved to the new title, if it's not likely to be expanded on its own soon.) THis may be something for the furture, but as religion is a big part of Jamaican culture, there should be enough info to make a good article at some point. - BillCJ (talk) 00:10, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can see, there is no reference to the Catholic Church: There are about 50,000 (4%) Catholics in Jamaica, divided into one archdiocese (Kingston) and two dioceses (Montego Bay and Mandeville). This should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rainerup (talk • contribs) 21:03, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

United Kingdom's heavy reliance on slavery
Dear All,

This sentence...

"By the beginning of the 19th century, the United Kingdom's heavy reliance on slavery resulted in blacks (Africans) outnumbering whites (Europeans) by a ratio of almost 20 to 1, leading to constant opportunities for revolt."

...is unsubstantiated and most likely inaccurate. The contribution of slavery based industries in Jamaica to the economy of the  British Empire has not been substantiated to an agreed extent. Given the business interests that existed with India, South East Asia, China, North South America, etc, (not to mention the domestic economy), it is unlikely that the UK was ever 'heavily reliant' on Jamaican based slavery. A more accurate sentence would be:

"By the beginning of the 19th century, the heavy reliance on slavery of Jamaican-based British business interests resulted in blacks (Africans) outnumbering whites (Europeans) by a ratio of almost 20 to 1, leading to constant opportunities for revolt."

Archived?
I think this page should be archived. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lizainfini (talk • contribs) 05:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Go ahead then. - BillCJ (talk) 21:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicity
I don't know any black Jamaicans, including myself, who identify as West-African. We are Jamaicans. So I removed from the demographic ethnicity "West-African" to "African", although even that is still dubious because it cannot be sourced and more importantly it is inaccurate.--KGBarnett (talk) 00:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Correction to "History of Jamaica", paragraph 2
The last sentence of, "History of Jamaica", paragraph 2 states, "...'monteca' being the Spanish word for land." The Spanish word for land is "Tierra". "Monteca" may be translated as, "butter", "fat" or "grease", in English. See any Spanish-English dictionary for confirmation.Schryver (talk) 04:47, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks Schryver!. I changed it to "lard", which is the literal translation, so named for the historical hunting of wild boar for the lard-making industry. Perhaps it was a typo, or a mis-reading of the "map" from the reference?--KGBarnett (talk) 09:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Spelling mistake
Under the goverment and polotis section there is a spelling mistake where its supposed to say the and it says th(its at the end of the first line) since this page is protected im unable to fix this, if someone fixes this can you please remove the section in discusiion when its fixed, thankyou (DrakeLuvenstein (talk) 02:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC))

School ages
In this revision an anonymous user has changed the normal ages for children attending primary and secondary schools. It may be an attempt to introduce a subtle error, or an attempt to correct one. Does anyone know which it might be?

Original

 * Primary – Publicly and privately owned (Privately owned being called Preparatory Schools). Ages 5 – 10 years.
 * Secondary – Publicly and privately owned. Ages 10 – 18 years. The high schools in Jamaica may be either single-sex or co-educational institutions, and many schools follow the traditional English grammar school model used throughout the British West Indies.

New

 * Primary – Publicly and privately owned (Privately owned being called Preparatory Schools). Ages 6 – 11 years.
 * Secondary – Publicly and privately owned. Ages 12 – 17 years. The high schools in Jamaica may be either single-sex or co-educational institutions, and many schools follow the traditional English grammar school model used throughout the British West Indies.

Oops, forgot to sign my name. LinguistAtLarge (talk) 06:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * To my knowledge, the original ages are more correct. I've reverted the single-edit IP as possible vandalism. I could be wrong, however, as my knowledge of the Jamaican school system is over 35 25 years out of date. - BillCJ (talk) 07:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. That was my inclination as well. LinguistAtLarge (talk) 05:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Demographics from the University of the West Indies
I have found a better and more accurate source for the ethnic makeup from the university of the west indies. it's from 2006, but honestly not much has changed since then ethnic group wise. The CIA is wrong and probably doesn't care to fix their mistake. if i had to choose i'd pick their(the university's) census. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lizainfini (talk • contribs) 15:44, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Spelling Error
Guiacum officinale --> Guaiacum officinale

Demographics Cia
Basically the CIA factbook has been used as an authority when it wiki. I clicked on the link that the poster got their information from and it was either broken or non-existent. It appeared to have come from a university anyways, which should lead one to be a bit skeptical as universities are often making up theories (thats a professors job to make up theories and publish papers on them) even if they are not necessarily true or accurate. I think we should go with the factbook as we can all agree it is rather fair and objective, at least to the point that it is cited in demographics all over wiki without argument. You also have to remember that the CIA are professional intellegnce gatherers so they may have information that is not available to us particulalrly because they have offices all over the world and can easily get their hands on a census even in a country like Jamaica where these things are not put up on the net.

Further other online encyclopedia's and my microsoft encyclopedia all seem to corburate the idea that Jamaica is roughly 90-92% black 6%-4% mixed(However unclear what precisely that means, whether it is black mixed with white or indian and chinese or white and middle eastern or all of them), and the remainder white. Even infoplease.com agrees http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107662.html and http://www.indexmundi.com/jamaica/demographics_profile.htmland www.countryreports.org/people/overview.aspx?countryid=121&countryname=Jamaica

I am also highly skeptical that Jamaica is 3% Indian as even according to other articles on wiki there is no where near that much Indians (only 90,000)in Jamaica.

Is it possible that 15% of black jamaicans have some sort of white ancestry, possibly, but is that ancestry enough that these people identify themselves as "afro-europeans" Highly unlikely. Even the term sounds extremely un-natural, like someone just decided they were going to make up an ethnic group for the fun of it like Blackinese(black asian). When you look at any population you will find it displays a small percent of another race usually 2-20% but these people normally do not identified themselves as mixed. I think that we just accept that no race or people are truly pure, we are talking about Jamaica here not Dominican Republic or something. I'm in a place where I know many Italians, most Italians are mixed with at least one or two other cultures, like having a french great grandma, but it would a bit of a stretch to say that they are franco-italiano. We usually do not classify a group of people as mixed unless they obviously appear that way, to me 90% of the jamaicans I meet do not look all that different from West Africans(Nigerians) in terms of skin complextion and physical features.

However it is really irrelevent what I think and who I meet because what ultimately matters is the hardcore facts and the data here and that is all pointing to 91+% of jamaicans are black/african looking people 6% are mixed and the rest are white, indian and chinese. Besides if these 15% of Jamaicans were truly afro-europeans(defintion still unclear because I can find no real source to back it up, word is not even in the dictionary for crips sake) would not they just identify themselves as mixed in a census if this were truly so? I mean if they had such significan ancestry why would they go out the way to seperate themselves from other mixed people. Most would assume mixed would encompass afro-european

I have distant cousing who have intermarried and when some kids who are 1/4 black identify as white, appear white, as far as most people are concerned they are white. Genetically they are 1/4 black but to the average person who comes on wiki wanting to know about them(assuming the repopulated an entire nation of 1/4 black people) they would just be white. Calling them a euro-african or something would just be silly people in the real world do not think like that. People see black people like in africa, white people like in england, and mixed people like in Brazil or dominican. No one sees afro-europeans or euro africans or afro-asianicans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmack8080 (talk • contribs) 04:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Jamaica should apply a white "one drop rule" so if a Jamaican has just a white great grand father he/she would be considered white. After all that is what happens in the U.S. and a guy who is just 1/8 black and 8/1 white is considered "black". Then if somebody in Jamaica is 1/8 white and 8/1 black he/she could be called white the same way....--79.146.210.173 (talk) 23:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Jamaicans always talk about ancestry. There's plenty afro-indians (just call them "Indian") and afro-chinese (see Michael Lee-Chin, Jamaica's richest son). And lots of afro-afro (called "black") and afro-european (called "brown" as in "brown-skin boy").  Don't worry about it. Bushcutter (talk) 02:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

To classify Jamaica according to the CIA and America's views on race and to disregard the UWI's data to me is a great disservice to our society. Of course we can trace African blood lines in almost 95 percent of the population, but to make no mentions of Indo-Jamaicans and mixed Indo-Jamaicans who number well in the hundred thousands as well as Chinese Jamaicans, all of whom are woven into the fabric of Jamaican life and history is nothing more than disrespectful to all those who classify themselves as Jamaicans. We all know that Slave masters forcibly had relations with their slaves and as such the so called 15 percent of the population that is classified as Afro-European makes full sense. We must look back at census demographics from the 1980's backward, they all had the same racial data as what the UWI collected. It was not until the 1990's onward that we began adopting the United States' views and ideas on racial classifications. Mixed Jamaicans according the US would be black and nothing more. We are an independent nation with think tanks our own. If the University of the West Indies, a learned and intrinsically Jamaicans institution is to be disregarded for data the "CIA" reports is accurate does nothing but reaffirm some of our views of anything foreign being better than us. Another insult I find is to make no mention of Syrian, Lebanese, or even European Jamaicans, all of whom have an established history within Jamaica and have even given us a Prime Minister. We must celebrate our racial diversity and not simple classify ourselves according to the CIA. (Blackchiney86 (talk) 01:20, 30 April 2011 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackchiney86 (talk • contribs)

If you ask me i think Jamaica's racial makeup is very similar to Dominican Republic's, i mean i have been to both islands and to all the parishes and providences of each one but not every single town of corse (thats impossible), and you will see the same racial make if anything i saw more pure blacks in the Dominican Republic, cuase in Jamaica there's alot of Grifes (a person who's 75% black & 25% white) and mulattoes. if You go to the Dominican Republic (not counting Haitians, which by the way Jamaica has over 500,000 haitian immigrants) you will see that most Dominicans are pure blacks, grifes, and mulattoes. Now the white percentage is also higher in Jamaica, due to the fact if you to Dominican Republic you barely see pure whites, the whites their are mixed. Now in my estimates based on what i saw in Jamaica, it would be about 46% mixed, 41% black (including grifes), 8% whites, and 5% indians and chinese pure. In the Dominican Republic i would say about 60% blacks (including grifes), 31% mixed, 7% whites (including quadroons), and 2% others. Now this is just based on what i saw, remember many Dominicans will tell you their mixed or white even if they arnt due to the brainwashing of the educational system they have over there just like in other Latin American countries that being of european descent means your superior and that being of afro descent means to be inferior. In Jamaica many people over there are pround to represent their afro heritage very strongly and will only identify as black even if they arnt (most are mixed to some degree). Saying that Jamaica is 90-92% black is completely absurd, if anything that's Haiti yet only 85% identified as black in Haiti. Now the 75% afro jamaican census is alittle more accurate if it was 75% black mulatto jamaican. In many cases without dought Jamaica's racial makeup is very similar to Dominican Republic, Martinique, Guadeloupe, and Bermuda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.199.216.188 (talk) 21:19, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

bob marley
did marley die in jamaica???--98.112.121.78 (talk) 23:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)gonalez21


 * The answer is in the Bob Marley article. Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 23:48, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

"Typo"
editsemiprotected Under culture, it says "The island is famous for it's Jamaican jerk spice which forms a popular part of Jamaican cuisine." It should say "...famous for ITS Jamaican jerk spice...." It's means it is!!! 199.34.5.20 (talk) 05:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done--Aervanath (talk) 06:36, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

"Possible Misprint" The article states that Jamaica is the fourth largest ISLAND in the Greater Antilles. This is not true. The Greater Antilles consists of the following Islands: Cuba; the largest Island, Hispaniola; the second largest island (consisting of two countries; Haiti and the Dominican Republic), Jamaica; the third largest island, and Peurto Rico; the fourth Largest island. For the Statement to be correct it should say; Jamaica is the fourth Largest "country" or "territory" in the Greater Antilles. Otherwise the Normal or correct statement should be: Jamaica is the third largest island in the Greater Antilles or Caribbean.

Jamaica's Bands
A recent reading of wiki's info on Jamaica, has an incorrect link for the Fab5 (fabulous 5) band. Could the link be changed to www.fab5inc.com?Portlandbabe (talk) 17:37, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Coordinates
The coordinates need the following fixes:
 * Write here

76.87.121.35 (talk) 03:59, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Religion
There's no mention of Rastafarianism. This is an important religion in Jamaica. According to the Demographics_of_Jamaica page it's 34.7%, but none of the references back that up and I'm having trouble finding an "official" number. 216.17.156.32 (talk) 00:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Huh? The first section under culture is all about Rastafrians. And the 34.7% number seems way too high. - BillCJ (talk) 00:42, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * An old version of the Demographics page listed "34.7%" as "Other, including Rastas, Jews, Muslims, etc.". I've removed the claim as false. - BillCJ (talk) 01:02, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, culture and religion are separated here. It's important to list this as a religion. Looking at the (recently added?) external link there were 24,020 Rastafarians in Jamaica in 2007. The current religion section talks about 200 Jewish and 5,000 Islamic people, but no mention is given to a religWhere is the article about foodion that has more adherents, and was much more important for Jamaica's development as a country. FWIW that link can also be used as the citation in the Demographics_of_Jamaica section. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AxeMay (talk • contribs) 03:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * While I agree with your reasoning in theory, I assume it'scovered under Culture because, per the Rastafari movement article (note that it's not named Rastafarianism), because many Rastafari don't consider it a religion (or an "-ism"). I don't oppose listing the percenatage of the population that practice it though. - BillCJ (talk) 04:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Sean Kingston
Add Sean Kingston to the famous artists born in Jamaica! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.230.29.27 (talk) 02:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Per his article on WP, he was born in Miami, FL. - BillCJ (talk) 03:02, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The context of Jamaica
The article while to some extent very comprehensive it fails to outline the context of a lot of the socio-economic issues that face Jamaica. A good example of this is the issue of gay rights and homosexual harassment in the country. Many of the persons who comment on the issue do not asses the issue within the context of Jamaica's culture and history.

In many Jamaican communities there are known gay men and women who live their lives freely and without menace. It is a fact that there are high profile incidence of gay assaults but this is not a wholesale killing and beating of gays. A large proportion of gay violence is perpetrated by gay men against gay men.

I addition is the fact that whenever a homosexual is killed there are interests who are quick to claim this this is a anti-killing. This is not always the case. Jamaica has one of the highest murder rates in the world and because gays are a part of the society they too will becoome victims of gang violence, robberies and other forms of crime.

On one point I will cede to the interests that brand Jamaica as 'homophobic' is as it relates to the music. For many years jamaican entertainers have proliferated an exaggerated rhetoric related to gay bashing. While they also bash oral sex, obeah and other forms of behavior or activity, the fact is that they have internationalized a problem that is not as bad as it is presented and should pay a penalty for that.

In concluding, nothing can be fully understood without context and using small, poor and crime ridden Jamaica as a clarion call for gay rights will not do much to achieve the global aims of the gay rights lobby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alykhatpr (talk • contribs) 02:21, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Education in Jamaica
I was told by several of my Jamaican friends that school was not free. It cost to go to school from 1-18 yrs old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.93.141 (talk) 20:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Jamaican children don't go to school at age one. - BilCat (talk) 21:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

From 1977 to 1995 I was schooled in Jamaica and education was (probably still is) free at the Infant school (ages 3-5), the Primary school (ages 6-12), and the High school (ages 12-17 or 18). Those who pay big fees are attending private schools. However, the public schools do have a small registration fee.I went to a teachers college and it was free. I hear it is no longer free. I graduated from Mico Teachers in 1995.Jamkelly001 (talk) 17:02, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Schooling in Jamaica is not free. A fee is paid at the early childhood level up to the tertiary level, even if it is the basic registration fee that is paid at the primary level along with maintenance fee among other fees. No matter the level a cost is associated with entry to a school in Jamaica. The lowest price for school fee is approximately JMD3500, which is at the early childhood level, presently (2013). Fergie1927 02:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RocqueC (talk • contribs)

ethnic ancestry of jamaican people
I found this article lacking information about the origin of immigrants to jamaica over the centuries. refering to one's ancestral origin as "African" or "Indian" is no more accurate than calling a Parisian - "European". Furthermore, The time and circumstance (slavery is again a far too general reason in a historical point of view) of African arrival to Jamaica, as well as Indian, are missing. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.31.248 (talk) 10:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * A Parisian generally is European - it's accurate, just not specific. - BilCat (talk) 19:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I am Jamaican-American born in Jamaica and we Jamaicans call ourselves West Indians being from the West Indies. It does not suggest we are Indians but refers to the region we are from. Some Jamaicans like myself call ourselves Afro-Caribbean. It suggests our African ancestry and Caribbean birth. Many Jamaicans identify with the term "black" rather than adopt the term "African-American" because the latter term completely misses our native island birth. Serious and patriotic Jamaicans value the association and connection with Africa and the Caribbean more than any other association regardless of where they live.

The Jamaican motto "out of many one people" learned by every Jamaican as soon as they are born, suggest that you will find, living as one, so many people of mixed race born on the island -- and it is usual that this mixture is black and another race or ethnicity such as black and white, black and indian, black and asian, these 3 are the primary mixture. This ethic and racial mix came about because during slavery, all kinds of ethnic and racial people, visiting or resident to the island, would co-mingle with black slave women who would then produce mixed kids. However, it was not just limited to slavery; long after slavery the trend continued that black women would reproduce for men of other races and ethnicities. Now, you also found this moreso with the women than with the Jamaican men. Only recently have Jamaican men started seeking after women who are not black.Jamkelly001 (talk) 17:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

There were also many Irish people who came to Jamaica as Irish slaves and who mixed with African slaves. Many Jamaican towns also have Irish names. Jamaican English also has many Irish influences mixed with African and British influences.

98.245.148.9 (talk) 05:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Irish_people_in_Jamaica 64.134.224.193 (talk) 15:16, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

kofi kingston
add kofi to famus people


 * Not eligible. according to the Kofi Kingston article, he is from Ghana, not Jamaica, with no relation to the city whatsoever other than the name. - BilCat (talk) 01:46, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Typo/grammar under Religion
About 21% of the Jamaican population is either an Agnostic or Atheist, making Jamaica which the most Atheists in the Caribbean.

Correction: About 21% of the Jamaican population is either an Agnostic or Atheist, making Jamaica (the nation, the island) the which with the most Atheists in the Caribbean.


 * I doubt it. Agnostics are usually Christians, and not the same as "Atheists". Sagradamoto (talk) 02:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Branding agnostics "usually" Christians is such a ridiculous generalisation and completely misses the point of agnosticism, as they are either unsure or believe that religion and the supernatural et cetera remains unknownable so therefore they aren't Christians 79.78.75.220 (talk) 20:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Jamaica doesn't have an official religion, the government likes to have a feeling that everyone has some freedom, but for requires you must of some form Christianity to be President or part of Parliament.

Correction: Jamaica doesn't have an official religion, the government likes to have a feeling that everyone has some freedom, but for requires you to practice you must of some form Christianity to be President or part a member of Parliament.

Dopper0189 (talk) 05:50, 28 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have implemented your changes. Thanks for the help. In the future, if you see something like that that needs to be fixed, be bold and do so yourself. – Katerenka  (talk • contribs) 05:57, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I am Jamaican, and the foregoing is garbage! Jamaica is a CHRISTIAN nation and declares that in such things as it national anthen and national pledge which every born Jamaican knows. Christianity is so embedded in the culture that Christian education is taught in all infant and primary public schools. Now, our christian religion comes with many denominations - Baptist, Anglican, Methodist, Seventh Day, etc. Another religion - Rastafarianism is practiced but by a very very very small number of philosophical Jamaicans. JAMAICANS ARE NOT ATHEISTS! Not even a little bit. These are some of the most God-fearing people with more Christian churches per square mile than any other country in the world according to the guiness book of world record.Jamkelly001 (talk) 17:05, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I am Jamaican too, and the foregoing is NOT garbage.. Atheist here too and you would be surprised to know how many there are here. Just that they are suppressed, and as you can imagine, these views don't have much avenue to be spread but..there are many atheists here indeed.

Location map
There are several problems with the proposed new map: -Arb. (talk) 01:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) It is too big and so unbalances the sidebar; the previous version was more appropriately sized.
 * 2) It does not situate Jamaica as well as the previous map did; the actual location of the island is much smaller and so more difficult to see. Almost impossibly so without the ring. The previous version did not need such artificialities.
 * 3) The large green outline of the island plastered over the mid-Atlantic is pointless and potentially confusing.
 * 4) The previous map situated Jamaica clearly in the Caribbean and the Caribbean in the world. The new one does not, indeed it has a pronounced western hemisphere bias (half the globe is missing) and so looses the at-a-glance understanding that the traditional full world map provides.

Legality/Illegality of Homosexuality in Jamaica
It is unfortunate that Wikipedia states that homosexuality is illegal in Jamaica. Jamaican law states that buggery, the act of anal sex between two males, is illegal. This law existed in the UK until 2004 as well. There is no law in Jamaica that states that "homosexuality" is illegal. There is a difference between buggery, an act, an homosexuality, a description of a person.

See the "Offence Against the Person Act" at http://www.moj.gov.jm/law/search?lawSearch=buggery Davidmullings (talk) 15:40, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well homosexuality is defined as the sexual attraction between two people of the same sex. What kind of sexual orientation describes anal sex between two males? Here we go again over this silly word war: "homosexuality vs. homosexual behavior". Andrewlp1991 (talk) 21:07, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Legally there need not be any homosexual attraction. It's enough that one male buggered another male, regardless of sexual orientation.    Section 79 refers simply to "any act of gross indecency with another male person".  The act refers only to behaviour, not to feelings or attitudes. Santamoly (talk) 21:01, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I am Jamaican, and simply put, Jamaicans do not tolerate homosexulity. Homosexuals must remain hushed in this culture because it is not embraced. This is based on the Christian premise that God created a man and a woman to replenish the earth. If a couple cannot biologically reproduce due to having the same sex organs, then how on Gods earth do we expect to replenish the earth? Now a couple with opposite sex organs who cannot reporduced is excused because they did not deliberately create that situation so please don't argue there. Jamaica's highly influential Chriatian community of educated religious leaders speak out against homosexuality and the masses including government listens, hence homosexuality is not tolerated though it exists. It is therefore illegal, it doesn't matter how you choose to explain buggery.Jamkelly001 (talk) 17:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Your take on Christianity is not the only one and Jamaican laws on 'buggery' (it seems in some parts of the world that relic of a word is still in use) were given to you by the British. And your focus on sex organs and reproduction is rather bizarre. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 10:33, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Population of Jamaica
A more authoritative source for the population should be the Statistical Institute of Jamaica. This is the Government body responsible for doing census and maintaining other relevant statistics. The website link to the information on population statistics is http://statinja.gov.jm/population.aspx. The population listed is inaccurate. It should be corrected. 72.252.216.60 (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The 4th paragraph in "History" says: In 1660, the population of Jamaica was about 4,500 whites and some 1,500 blacks. but the reference given doesn't support this statement. The reference given actually says: "The first recorded attempt at enumerating the population of Jamaica was in 1660, when "the relicts of the army" were stated to be 2200, and the planters, merchants, and others about the same number. In 1775, there were 13,737 whites, free coloured 4093, slaves 192,787."  The sentence in History is obviously an error of some kind, but I can't see how the editor came to that conclusion, even after checking out the supplied reference.  I suggest removing the whole sentence - anyone agree? Santamoly (talk) 20:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

--

I've wanted to fly to Jamaica since I was 3. It was always the land of my dreams. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.164.101.122 (talk) 23:10, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Irish Slaves in Jamaica/Irish mixing with Africans
This article makes no mention of the Irish contribution to the Jamaican ethnos except for the brief listing of Irish in the Laundry List of ethnic groups contributing to bi-raciality. There are reasons Jamaicans love Guiness Stout. This is a poorly researched article to overlook a very important part of Jamaican heritage and world history. For more on this see http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/jamone.html Thanks, George, 'Y-0' USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.119.207.171 (talk) 23:43, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Many Irish slaves (poor indigents and debtors forced into indentured slavery by the British government) were sent to Jamaica and over time intermarried with African slaves. Many Jamaican towns today have Irish names. The Jamaican accent today has a little Irish in it. You can hear it if you listen.

98.245.148.9 (talk) 05:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I just added four citations to the article, noting the significant Irish heritage in Jamaica.

98.245.148.9 (talk) 06:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

North America
The sentence: "relative proximity to large markets in North America" suggests that Jamaica is not in North America. Can someone edit this to show that it is in NA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mistereliminator (talk • contribs) 04:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Merge from Constitution of Jamaica

 * Strongly Oppose. Most countries have a separate article to cover just the constitution of the country (see infobox at bottom of Constitution of Canada.) There is more than enough information to fill an article by itself. Deleting or removing content from this article would be similar to removing content from the Constitution of Canada or Constitution of the United States articles, and will be seen in the same light by me. (In other words, I will respond in the same manner as if someone tried to "merge" those articles.) The article is not even an hour old, give it time to develop. Int21h (talk) 01:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Especially since we already have an article on Politics of Jamaica. If the Constitution article is not expanded, that would be a suitable place to merge it to. - BilCat (talk) 02:30, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I point to the definition of premature: "Occurring before a state of readiness or maturity  has arrived".


 * I agree that a merge might be appropriate if the article stayed this small for a while, but saying as this merge was requested when the article was only minutes old. The merge was requested in the middle of my citations gathering for the article, which already surpasses the politics article. My guess is because people are getting reverted before they can even finish their macroedits, like what happened here.


 * I have been spending my time since then fighting this ridiculous merge request by a user who seems to only be removing material from Wikipedia and not adding anything. (This is my frustration showing.) I request that the merge requester formally withdraw the request since his only reason was that it was too small when it was in the process of being created. (Minutes, jeez...) Give the article a little longer. I cannot spend time expanding this article while I am actively fighting against its removal to an article with no citations, and in poor shape to boot. I will take this to the administrators if necessary to protect this fledging article. Int21h (talk) 18:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Given that the adder of the merge tag has not even bothered to add a rationle for the move, or comment here in any way, I'm considering closing the merge as Incomplete. I'll comment on page first, and give him a chance to defend his proposal. - BilCat (talk) 18:49, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Sports/Basketball
Why wasn't Patrick Ewing (born August 5, 1962) even briefly mentioned in the article under basketball? He is one of the 50 greatest basketball players of all time and most notably the best Basketball player hailing from Jamaica. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.251.156.12 (talk) 16:40, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

bobsled team
I'm pretty sure that the Jamaican team was never a "serious contender" like this article claims. Their best finish at any Olympics was 14th and even that was a complete shock to pretty much everyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.169.63.121 (talk) 17:21, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Jebrkala, 2 June 2010
Please change the population of Jamaica from 2.8 million people to 2.7 million people. According to information from the Statistical Institute of Jamaica, last updated on May 26, 2010, the population of Jamaica on Dec. 31, 2009, was 2,698,8000.

Jebrkala (talk) 18:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have a link to this?  — fetch ·  comms   21:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If you have a source, just change it and note the source. Much easier than trying to get others to do it. Santamoly (talk) 23:44, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

History
Hi everyone, I've recently joined wikiproject Caribbean and am working to fix up this article. In the history I've noted some inaccuracies, such as the bit about Runaway Bay. It is not named that because of the Spaniard Don Cortez Arnoldo de Yassi, but, according to this source, it's called that because it was once a route for runaway slaves source. I also cannot find a record of Don Cortez Arnoldo de Yassi. Bobby122  Contact Me   (C)  16:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

According to "Spanish Jamaica" by Francisco Morales Padron. Governor Don Cristobal Ysassi, was headquartered at Las Choreras (Ocho Rios) and was defeated at Rio Nuevo; he records him and his men leaving "from the North Coast" in 2 canoes with 76 men to Cuba.

Jahmusic (talk) 23:51, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

More vandalism
Lots of recent vandalism, some of it missed in reversions. I think it's time to semi-protect the article again, if PC is not an option. - BilCat (talk) 17:15, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 208.102.79.69, 30 January 2011
one jamaican name is ifari208.102.79.69 (talk) 18:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Not done: And I imagine there's several thousand more Jamaican names; nonetheless, this is not encyclopedic information belonging in the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:43, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Geography
The statement that the Port Royal earthquake formed the Palisadoes is probably incorrect. The Palisadoes existed before the earthquake even though Port Royal was an island at the time. Maps of the period clearly show the Palisadoes and Port Royal.

Jahmusic (talk) 20:42, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Energy
The reference to the Slowpoke reactor is misleading. While it is true that the University of the West Indies has operated it for many years, it is a research facility and not used to provide energy. The sentence should be rephrased to indicate this.

Jahmusic (talk) 23:32, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Jamaica
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Jamaica's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "cia": From Panama:  From Andorra:  From Norway:  From Nicaragua:  From Botswana:  From Argentina:  From Canada: </li> <li>From Maldives: </li> <li>From Saint Pierre and Miquelon: CIA factbook: Saint Pierre and Miquelon</li> <li>From Sudan: Staff writer (27 December 2010). "Sudan". CIA World Factbook. U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. Retrieved 14 January 2011.</li> <li>From Suriname: </li> <li>From Palau: </li> <li>From Languages of Papua New Guinea: CIA World Factbook: Papua New Guinea</li> <li>From Aruba: </li> <li>From Guyana: </li> <li>From Japan: </li> <li>From Guatemala: </li> <li>From Kenya: </li> <li>From Barbados: Barbados: People. World Factbook of CIA</li> <li>From Cocos (Keeling) Islands: CIA World Factbook</li> <li>From Navassa Island: Navassa Island - World Factbook</li> <li>From Senegal: </li> <li>From Belize: </li> <li>From El Salvador: </li> <li>From Guernsey: </li> <li>From Bermuda: </li> <li>From Falkland Islands: </li> <li>From Saint Barthélemy: World factbook Saint Barthelemy</li> <li>From Bhutan: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/bt.html World Factbook</li> <li>From Ascension Island: </li> <li>From List of sovereign states and dependent territories by population density: Population density calculated using surface area and population figures from CIA World Factbook. Republic of China (Taiwan) as of 2005; Serbia as of 2002, Kosovo excluded; Montenegro as of 2004.</li> <li>From Brunei: </li> <li>From World population: Population density calculated using surface area and population figures from the CIA World Factbook.</li> <li>From Uganda: </li> <li>From Algeria: </li> <li>From Guam: "Guam," CIA World Factbook, April 17, 2007. Retrieved April 19, 2007.</li> <li>From Hong Kong: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Emigration
This article describes high emigration from Jamaica to metropolitan centres abroad, then lists The Bahamas as having similarly high levels of emigration.

This is false. The Bahamas has high net immigration (among the highest in the world) and virtually no economic emigration to other countries. This is why it enjoys visa free travel to virtually all developed countries.

No mention is made of Jamaican immigration to The Bahamas, which is high. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robblaten (talk • contribs) 16:28, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

EDIT REQUEST - SPORTS
Cricket is NOT the most popular sport in Jamaica (http://www.jamaicans.com/culture/sports/index.shtml) - it was "once the most popular sport in Jamaica." Those days are long gone.

Football (soccer) is the most popular sport in Jamaica (http://wiki.jamaicans.com/index.php/Category:Sports_in_Jamaica) followed by athletics/track&field.

Cricket is a distant third. Even the site that is referenced no longer claims that cricket is the most popular sport (although it incorrectly claims that cricket is the second most popular sport). http://www.my-island-jamaica.com/sports_played_in_jamaica.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkduggan (talk • contribs) 19:44, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from, 13 October 2011
the reason why i want to edit this page is  the fact you have the percentage of racial diversity wrong it is actually 85.2% afo jamaica,10.2% afro caucasian,2.1 afroindian, 1.1 indian,1.1 chinese and 0.2 others

Ryan mccalla (talk) 03:17, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please provide a source to support the change you are requesting. Monty  <sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845  15:46, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 December 2011
Please remove the claim in the second paragraph of the article that Jamaica is the third most populous anglophone country behind the US and Canada because it is blatantly incorrect. England, for example, has a population at least 25 times that of Jamaica.

129.133.198.192 (talk) 23:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Not done: It says "third most populous anglophone country in the Americas". I'm pretty sure England isn't part of the Americas?--Hazel77 talk 23:48, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 December 2011
As a Jamaican and former student of advanced history there are details that have not been mentioned and various areas could be expounded upon. I can provide accurate/credible info and references.
 * For example where transportation is mentioned I think there could have been some mention of the 'Kendal Tragedy of 1957' which is of historical significance, which explains why the railway system became unused until the recent introduction of limited transportation in April 2011. [I could provide you with the info and reference if necessary]
 * Additionally where the weather and major hurricanes were mentioned, there should have been mention of the 'Port Royal Earthquake of 1692' and the '1907 Earthquake' which were major historical events. Geographically, Jamaica lies on a stretch of plates that are connected to the Caribbean Plate, hence we have experienced major seismic activities. There ought to be more details about Jamaica's geography i.e. land terrain, info on the plains, mountains, and rivers in Jamaica (most of which have Spanish names due to previous Spanish colonization).
 * Where tourism and bauxite is mentioned, there should also be some info on cattle breeding in Jamaica which was a significant area I touched on whilst studying. This led to the development of Jamaican hybrids such as the Jamaican Brahmin, Red and Black which have been dubbed some of the finest sources of beef in the world and have been reared in other parts of the Caribbean and Latin countries.
 * Under culture there should also be an entire section on the music and art forms i.e. the traditional dances and there roots e.g. bruckins, kumina, pole dance/may pole etc.; jonkunu; evolution of the music from the days of ska and mento right up to reggae and dancehall. The birth of poems influenced by our colonial past.
 * Also under the section which mentions our ethnic origins, I believe Igbe should be removed. Most of our Afro people came from West Africa but predominantly from Ghana (Akan, Dahomey and Asante tribes). A small amount came from Senegal and Ivory Coast.
 * Under history, the genocide of the Tainos by the Spaniards should be mentioned, after all, they are our first settlers and this was a major part of our history. This is also partly why there is barely any remnants of them today and why Africans were introduced.
 * Also where indentureship was mentioned, there were NOT only Chinese and Indians. There were White indentured labourers who were Irish/Scottish/German and Europeans (hence the large number of mulattoes in places such as St. Elizabeth).
 * More details should be given about our local diet and the food in general(origins/cultural influence), as Jamaican cuisine is popular worldwide and is particularly embraced by the British society. Mention the national dish and the origins of ackee. Also mention foods that are extremely popular worldwide e.g. festival, escoveitched fish, oxtail, rice and peas, stewed peas,coconut pastries (drops, gizzada, grater cake), 'blue draws'. We are not only famed for the coffee and jerk seasoning but also our rum. * pictorial illustrations could be added*

JamaicanGirl89 (talk) 09:37, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This cannot be handled as an "Edit request", since you have not explained exactly what needs to be changed and have not provided the sources. I suggest you make another eight edits, and then you will automatically be given "autoconfirmed" status and be able to begin editing the article yourself. If you can't think of eight useful edits to make, I suggest you click one of the links at Lists of common misspellings/P and fix a few spelling mistakes. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:45, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Monarchy VS. Independance of 1962
I believe at a minimum, a source for the "independence in 1962" is required. In my research, I've located their highest political figure as Queen Elizabeth II, and a Prime Minister (Jamaican) coming in 2nd. There must be more emphasis on this relationship.. as it is not easy to determine the ruler of this island.

Twillisjr (talk) 18:36, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Added Monarchy of Jamaica http://www.royal.gov.uk/monarchandcommonwealth/jamaica/jamaica.aspx and http://www.jis.gov.jm/special_sections/Independence/symbols.html as sources to further assist Wikipedians in this confusion.

Twillisjr (talk) 18:47, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Jamaica doesn't have a "ruler", it's a parliamentary democracy. Try reading that article, Commonwealth of nations and Jamaica for an explanation. <span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 14:23, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hold on, how can you say it is a parliamentary democracy - who elected the Queen? Is she an MP? 86.41.2.94 (talk) 13:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Twillisjr, according to that source, it is the exact same conditions of that of Australia for example. In other words there is no independence of 1962, especially if it hasn't been sourced on this page. Independence implies that they are self-governing without foreign representation. This country is still of the crown but with self-government in place. Savvyjack23 (talk) 04:01, 1 May 2014 (UTC)


 * All of the Commonwealth countries, including Jamaica and Australia, are completely independent of the UK. Some of those commonwealths, such as India, are republics The others are commonwealth realms, meaning that they share a monarch with the UK and each other, but they are still independent of the UK. Jamaica can chose to become a republic by ammending its constitution,and get rid of the Queen without UK approval. In fact, they are considering doing just that. - BilCat (talk) 05:39, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 January 2012
Just a grammatical error:

When the Spanish arrive in 1494

should be

When the Spanish arrived in 1494

Umop (talk) 06:47, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks. Dru of Id (talk) 07:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request: clarifying a generalisation
Under

Geography and environment > Flora and fauna

Please change

"The Jamaican animal life... Lizards such as Anoles, Iguanas and snakes such as racers and the Jamaican Boa (the largest snake on the island) are common."

to "The Jamaican animal life... Lizards such as Anoles, Iguanas and snakes such as racers and the Jamaican Boa (the largest snake on the island) are common *in some areas such as the Cockpit Country*."

Reason: Iguanas and snakes etc are only found in some rural parts of Jamaica as noted in the referenced article footnote '42' which is about the 'Cockpit Country' not the whole island.

Thank you. SEM2012 (talk) 22:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 July 2012
An addition should me made in the Religion section to reflect the 5,449 members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints living in Jamaica.

sourced: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/jamaica/

Thesaent (talk) 00:42, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:58, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 August 2012
Christianity is the largest religion practised in Jamaica, but it has an "island flavor" that some continental Christians might not recognize or approve of. "For example, Jamaican women, Christian and otherwise, often have more than one child from more than one father before settling down to traditional marriage". This is not a religious practice in Jamaica or any country in this world, this is very insulting.

Sonjie11 (talk) 03:28, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. RudolfRed (talk) 04:40, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Prime Minister
The intoduction states that the "Prime Minister of Jamaica... holds full legislative power of the country". Surely that is wrong? Parliament is the legislative body surely? Unless she is a dictator? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.42.39 (talk) 19:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Last Sentence of Religion Section
The closing sentence of the section on religion is bewildering at best:

"These numbers reflect the fact that general Jamaican culture does not lend itself much to fundamentalist approaches to religion and life."

What does this mean exactly? There is no mention of fundamentalism elsewhere in the article--or in the focus article on Religion in Jamaica for that matter. Moreover, it is unclear what, if anything, "these numbers" have to do with the presence or absence of fundamentalism. Reading quickly, it looks like a jab at the two religious groups last listed.

If someone is attached to this sentence and can clarify it, please do so. If not, I will probably just delete it in a couple of days, unless someone beats me to it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom Allen (talk • contribs) 03:33, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 August 2012
Please add this picture of the Jamaican High Commission in London, located at 1 Prince Consort Road London SW7 2BZ, United Kingdom, to the 'Government and politics' of the Jamaica Wikipedia entry.

Link: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Jamaican_High_Commission_in_London.jpg

Araymore (talk) 17:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ but not by me; I am only closing the edit request. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:56, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 August 2012
Please change the official language to just English. Spanish is not an official language, I know it was spoken by a large majority in the 1800 but it is no longer. English is our ONLY official language, get it right.

JamaicanMD (talk) 17:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I know nothing about Jamaica, but the language shouldn't say "Patois" on its own. It has to say "Jamaican Patois", otherwise it's meaningless, since a "patois" is a type of language.

Is Jamaican patois used on official forms and in official correspondence, or do they use English?

--72.51.87.156 (talk) 19:10, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Standard English is used everywhere, in law, in administration, and the media. Patois is a vernacular spoken variation used in casual conversation.  Some effort is made, especially by academics, to find a written patois, but success is elusive.  Santamoly (talk) 05:44, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

the national flower and national tree are mixed up.
the national flower and national tree are mixed up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.35.61 (talk) 02:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * According to this page by the Jamaican Information Service, and this one by the National Library of Jamaica, the national flower is the Lignum vitae, and the national tree is the Blue Mahoe. This is what is listed in the National symbols section of this article. Do you have reliable sources that dispute this? - BilCat (talk) 03:15, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Jamaica: "Irish English"?
I've requested a citation for the dubious statement "Some archaic features are reminiscent of Irish English", and if nothing appears in a week, I'll just delete the entire sentence. Santamoly (talk) 09:03, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Crime
I am requesting that the phrase, " prompting human-rights groups to call Jamaica "the most homophobic place on earth," be removed. Firstly, Tim Padgett's hyperbolically titled article, "The Most Homophobic Place on Earth?" is listed as a reference to back up the statement. Yet, if you read the article,it does not say human rights groups have called the country that. He refers to a US official, Rebecca Schleifer of a US-Based Human Rights Group, who states that Jamaica is "the worst any of us have ever seen." There is no reference to a global study that ranks Jamaica as the most homophobic place on earth. This Padgett article has been over-used and over-interpreted in the conversations about LGBT rights in Jamaica, and the statement about the country being the most homophobic place on earth has been repeated over and over. Many, including local gay rights activists have since rejected this label, though homophobia continues to be a problem.

I do not think Wikipedia's informative purpose is served by reliance on that hyperbolic, subjective and very untrue description, made popular by Tim Padgett's Time magazine article. It is important to always avoid hyperbole and be nuanced when dealing with sensitive issues like these. I also think that hyperbole does not serve the interests of LGBT people in Jamaica.

I do hope that this edit can be made.

Thanks.Mandisa Morgan (talk) 22:25, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree. Certain activists/interested parties seemed to have made rounds on all articles a few years ago and gave undue weight to the topic of homophobia in Jamaica and Jamaican music which had to be pared down on a number of articles. That statement does reek of hyperbole, and Jamaica is hardly unique in the Caribbean for having anti-homosexual laws on the books, though I'm not opposed to a mention in a general sense.--Chimino (talk) 23:03, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * FWIW, Jamaica's "Offences Against the Person Act" is not "anti-homosexual", it's anti-buggery. The law says, in part, "Whosoever shall be convicted of the abominable crime of buggery, committed either with mankind or with any animal . . .". It's nothing to do with homosexuality but focuses on buggery which is often harmful to humans, male or female, as well as livestock.  Female persons, of course, are not equipped to bugger other creatures.  The Jamaican law is focused on assaults against persons and livestock; it's not focused on homosexuality. Santamoly (talk) 08:41, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 September 2013
The fifth line of the document indicates that "Jamaica is the fifth-largest island country in the Caribbean." This is incorrect! If Jamaica is the third largest Island (which is correct)and the second largest island (Hispaniola), comprises two larger Countries(Dominican Republic and Haiti). Then, it stands to reason that Jamaica would be the fourth largest island country(following behind 1.Cuba, 2. Dominican Republic, and 3. Haiti.)

Therefore, the document should read; "Jamaica is the fourth largest country in the Caribbean behind Cuba, the Dominican Republic, and Haiti."

Writing it this way will also avoid ambiguity. Puerto Rico would be the fifth largest country and fourth largest island.

Please make this change as soon as possible.

Ragamuff01 (talk) 19:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done:. The article means it has the fifth largest population, it doesn't mean fifth largest in square miles.  RudolfRed (talk) 01:24, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 06 Febuary 2014
From the article: "Independence, however widely celebrated in Jamaica, has in more recent years been a topic for discussion. In 2011, a survey done showed that approximately 60% of Jamaicans would push to once again become a British territory; citing years of social and fiscal mismanagement in the country."

There's no source for this, I was going to add a "citation needed" but I'm not allowed ;_;


 * Yes check.svg Done. --User:Anon126 (talk - contribs) 16:46, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Tourism in Jamaica
Hi! It would be great if you could create this article: Tourism in Jamaica!

Perhaps you can draw some inspiration from Tourism in Brazil. :) Thanks & all the best, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 15:43, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

YES, I agree that Tourism in Jamaica would be a wonderful topic! It is a hot tourist destination, and many tourists do their "research" before planning a trip out. Perhaps the Tourism place could have the tourist hot spots in each of the 14 parishes. Pcvjamaica (talk) 03:07, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Edit request: politics section
"However, there are several minor parties, whom have yet to gain a seat in Parliament; ... "

The word "whom" should be "who". It's the subject of the verb "have", and should be in the subject (nominative) case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 13:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Jamaica never had the one drop of Black blood slave master rule as in the United States. We have have Black which is around 90% of Population and Brown( people of noticeably mix of European and African and many cases of Asian mix also. f you research Jamaican history "Brown"/"Colored" (6.1-7.0%) has their own identity in Jamaican history. To lump Black and Brown/Mulatto Jamaican into one category is false, our history can prove your fallacy. Research and correct the demographics instead of putting what sounds nice to you. The rest of the Caribbean and Latin neighbors have their racial group separated for distinctions. In fact many Brown(Quadroons) owned slaves in Jamaica and was just as bad as their White fathers. In addition, these Brown people also received preferential treatment in Jamaican society while the pure Africans were looked down upon.We are not Americans, but West Indians. The author who input this data is clearly bias. Prove this data wrong!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Creolehombre2 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

prehistory
Please can the subtitle prehistory be replaced on this page. it is a redundant and colonial term implying Jamaica had no history prior to colonisation Jodie rees (talk) 02:46, 22 November 2014 (UTC)


 * ❌. The term implies nothing of the sort. See our article on the subject for more information. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> IgnorantArmies  12:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Grammar correction needed
Someone else already said this, but edit request has been ignored. Last sentence of "Government and Politics". The word "whom" is grammatically incorrect here. The correct word is "who". Box345 (talk) 11:12, 9 December 2014 (UTC)


 * ✅ Thanks, <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> IgnorantArmies  12:51, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Edit request
The natonal language of Jamaica is English, not patois. I am a Jamaican student and have learnt that it is English. Thanks. HorseHeadMask (talk) 23:21, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The official language is English. A national language is a commonly spoken language that may not have official status. In Jamaica, that is Patois. It doesn't mean national in the sense of a national bird or flower, as those are official. - BilCat (talk) 04:12, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * "A national language is a commonly spoken language that may not have official status." Do you have a source for this statement?  It has a vaguely home-made feel to it, so it would be nice to have some clarity.  FWIW, Jamaican patois is irregular and undocumented; it's entirely verbal.  English is written and spoken everywhere, in the media, in schools, in the courts, and in business.  It's very difficult to find somewhere in Jamaica that English cannot be used. Santamoly (talk) 06:28, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The comments were in regard to the "national language" field in Template:Infobox country. I was paraphrasing the template notes, which state, "Country/territory-wide languages recognised but not necessarily in country/territory-wide law, etc", hence what you called "a vaguely home-made feel". For "Official languages", it states "Languages recognised in legislation, constitution, etc". And no, Patois is not "entirely verbal", as documented in Jamaican Patois. They are even publishing Bibles in Patois now. - BilCat (talk) 06:50, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * "They are even publishing Bibles in Patois now." Bwoy, mi nevah see such a ting yet. But mek ah tell yu dat when unu see such a ting, unu mus bring it come. Santamoly (talk) 04:56, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * A tru ting dat, man. Di Jamiekan Nyuu Testiment: Jamaican New Testament Kindle Edition. - BilCat (talk) 05:26, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Foreign Aid in Jamaica
I suggest that a topic on Foreign Aid in Jamaica be started. Jamaica is a nation that is not only heavily dependent on foreign aid, but is a popular destination for do-gooders being so close and accessible from the United States. Perhaps the Foreign Aid topic can highlight efforts of USAID and The United States Peace Corps. Pcvjamaica (talk) 03:09, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Free education
The article read "Education is free from the early childhood to secondary levels", but there's no such a thing as "free" education, because people have to pay for it. It is just financed by taxes. Unless there's a person (or an organization) who pays for the teachers, buildings etc. Tashi   Talk to me  12:38, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Invalid Markup
The Revision as of 06:59, 16 August 2015 causes incorrect markup due to a missing close to the language bulleted list.

69.8.116.4 (talk) 17:26, 16 August 2015 (UTC) ✅ Thanks for pointing that out - Arjayay (talk) 17:34, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 11 one external links on Jamaica. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100925160737/http://jnht.com/heritage_site.php?id=217 to http://www.jnht.com/heritage_site.php?id=217
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070607011458/http://www.royal.gov.uk:80/output/Page4923.asp to http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page4923.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20141129080609/http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/country/?CountryID=55 to http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/country/?CountryID=55
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100818071928/http://www.americanrugbynews.com:80/artman/publish/rugby_league/Jamaica_to_Tour_UK.shtml to http://www.americanrugbynews.com/artman/publish/rugby_league/Jamaica_to_Tour_UK.shtml
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110511195601/http://www.rleague.com/db/article.php?id=36827 to http://www.rleague.com/db/article.php?id=36827
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110511195543/http://www.rleague.com/db/article.php?id=36730 to http://www.rleague.com/db/article.php?id=36730
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110511195556/http://www.rleague.com/db/article.php?id=36351 to http://www.rleague.com/db/article.php?id=36351
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071123064227/http://www.jis.gov.jm:80/education/html/20041212T090000-0500_4438_JIS_MORAVIAN_CHURCH_CONTRIBUTING_MUCH_TO_EDUCATION.asp to http://www.jis.gov.jm/education/html/20041212T090000-0500_4438_JIS_MORAVIAN_CHURCH_CONTRIBUTING_MUCH_TO_EDUCATION.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080217022409/http://www.jamaicaobserver.com:80/magazines/Business/html/20070428T200000-0500_122373_OBS_NO_GAS_FROM_TRINIDAD__VENEZUELA_BY_____.asp to http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20070428T200000-0500_122373_OBS_NO_GAS_FROM_TRINIDAD__VENEZUELA_BY_____.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070607224738/http://www.pcj.com:80/industry_stat.htm to http://www.pcj.com/industry_stat.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20101202075147/http://www.myjpsco.com:80/about_us/power_plants.php to http://www.myjpsco.com/about_us/power_plants.php

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Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2015
Change: Marlon James (1970),novelist has published three novels: John Crow's Devil (2005), The Book of Night Women (2009) and A Brief History of Seven Killings (2014), winner of the 2015 Man Booker Prize.

To: Marlon James (1970),novelist has published three novels: John Crow's Devil (2005), The Book of Night Women (2009) and A Brief History of Seven Killings (2014), winner of the 2015 Man Booker Prize.

Changes: Correct link to Marlon James page, links to his two novels

Macieklew (talk) 11:16, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅ - thanks for the suggestion - Arjayay (talk) 16:32, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Photo of Dunn's River Falls
Has anyone looked carefully at what's going on in that photo? It might not be the best representation of the place. 81.27.106.213 (talk) 05:04, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

CUDJOE
MAROON LEADER IN THE REVOLUTION - SEE WIKIPEDIA

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2016
I would like to add some information about Jamaica.

If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
 * ❌ This is not the right page to request additional user rights.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Jamaica. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160101043423/http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20070428T200000-0500_122373_OBS_NO_GAS_FROM_TRINIDAD__VENEZUELA_BY_____.asp to http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20070428T200000-0500_122373_OBS_NO_GAS_FROM_TRINIDAD__VENEZUELA_BY_____.asp
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20081210080622/https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/world-leaders-1/world-leaders-j/jamaica.html to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/world-leaders-1/world-leaders-j/jamaica.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100122124019/http://virtualtravel.cz:80/jamaica/portland/winnifred-beach/beach.html to http://virtualtravel.cz/jamaica/portland/winnifred-beach/beach.html

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Jamaica. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160101043423/http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20070428T200000-0500_122373_OBS_NO_GAS_FROM_TRINIDAD__VENEZUELA_BY_____.asp to http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20070428T200000-0500_122373_OBS_NO_GAS_FROM_TRINIDAD__VENEZUELA_BY_____.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070926232147/http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20051117T220000-0500_92733_OBS_PORT_AUTHORITY__MAERSK_IN_MAJOR_DEAL.asp to http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20051117T220000-0500_92733_OBS_PORT_AUTHORITY__MAERSK_IN_MAJOR_DEAL.asp

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Broken Link
hello

I'm a big fans of wikipedia. I usually use wikipedia for my reference to build website.

Actually I found a broken link in one of wikipedia page url https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica

and the broken link is http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20051117T220000-0500_92733_OBS_PORT_AUTHORITY__MAERSK_IN_MAJOR_DEAL.asp

I found a similar page that even has a link in wikipedia. if you want to update the link http://traveler4u.com/jamaica-all-inclusive-resorts/

Keep up with your excellent work

Sidqi Arif Mustofa — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidqi Arif Mustofa (talk • contribs) 06:06, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Jamaica. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120920160534/http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchAndCommonwealth/Jamaica/Jamaica.aspx to http://www.royal.gov.uk/monarchandcommonwealth/jamaica/jamaica.aspx

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Jamaica. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110511105031/http://www.iomlondon.org/doc/mapping/IOM_JAMAICA.pdf to http://www.iomlondon.org/doc/mapping/IOM_JAMAICA.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090717100529/http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/pages/history/story0033.html to http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/pages/history/story0033.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060619153047/http://www.jis.gov.jm/special_sections/This%20Is%20Jamaica/symbols.html to http://www.jis.gov.jm/special_sections/This%20Is%20Jamaica/symbols.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.pcj.com/petrojam/associate_text.htm

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"Import" terminology
I wanted to bring attention to the phrase "Spanish imported slaves". While it is true that the Spanish and British commoditized human lives during the time, and considered African slaves as objects to be imported, I believe that it is improper to use this language in the article. It is not made clear that this was the viewpoint of the Spanish/British, and when reading, it appears as though we (Wikipedia) are placing this terminology on the events. Smarie563849 (talk) 03:08, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * We are not here to correct the errors of the past......all we can do is regurgitate the terms used in the sources. --Moxy (talk) 06:00, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

But isn't Wikipedia supposed to be a new source of information that doesn't rely on the errors of the past? The whole purpose of Wikipedia is to produce information that is immune to the historical biases seen in the past history texts, so I do not think that it is correct to simply regurgitate these errors in this new forum. Smarie563849 (talk) 16:31, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Disappointed to see that there was no proper discussion about this...

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2017
Change Southeast Asian to South Asian in reference to Indian laborers under British Rule (1655-1962) section. 2602:306:8064:5510:8CFA:797B:1528:6A07 (talk) 03:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done, along with an extensive revision to the paragraph, which was confusing and poorly sourced. Rivertorch   <sup style="color:#FF0066;">FIRE <sub style="color:#0066FF;">WATER   05:12, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Jamaica. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100926083214/http://jnht.com/jamaica/hist_spanish.php to http://www.jnht.com/jamaica/hist_spanish.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090220161140/http://jamaica.gov.jm/ to http://www.jamaica.gov.jm/

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Request for comment
An editor has requested comments from other editors for a discussion about Charles, Prince of Wales in its talk page, under RFC: What should be in the article lead, concerning the royal succession? Feel free to go there and join the discussion. Thinker78 (talk) 22:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Jamaica. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110101132644/http://jamaica-gleaner.com/pages/history/story0058.htm to http://jamaica-gleaner.com/pages/history/story0058.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090908034804/http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR38/004/2007/en/496206cb-d39d-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/amr380042007en.html to https://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR38/004/2007/en/496206cb-d39d-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/amr380042007en.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090327080958/http://www.eiu.edu/~historia/archives/2005/Elam.pdf to http://www.eiu.edu/~historia/archives/2005/Elam.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110510014048/http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20030610/mind/mind2.html to http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20030610/mind/mind2.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090717101044/http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/pages/history/story0070.htm to http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/pages/history/story0070.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080607085034/http://ucblibraries.colorado.edu/govpubs/for/jamaica.htm to http://ucblibraries.colorado.edu/govpubs/for/jamaica.htm

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