Talk:James Franco/Archive 2

Viral videos "not important"
I'd like to discuss returning my paragraph on JF's viral videos. They were removed for not being "important," but his comedy videos have hundreds of thousands of views and are famous in their own right. If JF's bio is going to include his painting, which I believe few fans care about, then shouldn't this bio at least mention his videos? Some of them are produced exclusively for Funny Or Die, which is an official entertainment and comedy site. The Knocked Up "firing" was created by Judd Apatow, was a viral sensation, and has over half a million views.

Am I wrong? Any support for this? It seems strange to err on the side of NOT providing information when the subject in question is - to my mind, at least - quite significant and well-known.

Westcoastbrainiac (talk) 22:35, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * No one has objected in a week, so I've restored the paragraph.

Westcoastbrainiac (talk) 00:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: A link to YouTube violates copyrighted material, so don't add it, per here. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

The Wikipedia copyrights page does not mention YouTube, nor does it include the term "video." Further, the works in question were created for the internet and linking to them does not, in any sense, constitute a violation of copyright. There are links to YouTube throughout Wikipedia and I find it strange that this particular instance would be flagged. While this matter is pending, I am restoring the deleted sentence.

Westcoastbrainiac (talk) 05:37, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, what importance does your recent addition of that video have towards his career? If you must know, Wikipedia isn't a site to carry trivial facts, but you just main points. Also, you may see other articles that have YouTube links, the thing is that this article is a Good article, and should be maintained a Good article. The articles you've seen with the YouTube links, are probably not Good articles. If you see here, you'll see that the expected criteria for a Good article is that "it addresses the main aspects of the topic" and "it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail", exactly what I'm pointing out with the YouTube video link. Final point, is YouTube behind the video of Franco and that Hollywood tribute? If not, then it violates linking to copyrighted videos; "However, if you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work." --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 17:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I maintain that James Franco's viral videos are as significant as, if not more significant than, his painting. A Google search of "james franco" "funny or die" brings up 581,000 results. "James Franco" "painting" brings up under 72,000. It is my belief, and I understand that this may be subjective, that fans of James Franco, particularly younger fans, know him for his viral videos as much as for his "legitimate" work, and certainly far more than this painting, which is given four sentences in this article.

As to whether YouTube owns the copyright on a video, I can only answer that the video in question is meant to be a viral video, and by definition, any distribution is not only legal but actually encouraged. The first sentence in Wikipedia's entry on viral videos states: "A viral video is a video clip that gains widespread popularity through the process of Internet sharing, typically through email or Instant messaging, blogs and other media sharing websites." In addition, you may notice that the video, which appears to be available in its entirety on YouTube, does not show a copyright mark at its beginning or end.

I hope this addresses some of your concerns.

Westcoastbrainiac (talk) 18:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You bring up the point that the videos are important, because his fans recognize him? Doesn't make sense. So what? The painting was something that he did during his time in college, thus belonging in the PL section. You say that it is your belief he's famous because of these videos, that seems to be your point-of-view, which quite frankly isn't allowed in articles. Still, you haven't brought up a point as to how the videos are important. Specifically, the Hollywood tribute. If it were like Paris Hilton mocking John McCain in the Funny or Die.com video, since people wound up recognizing that Hilton is not your typical "dumb blonde", as she "responded" back to McCain's ad, and the fact that it attracted media attention, I would see the significance. Now, the tribute, don't see how that's "important" to Franco's article. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe James Franco is famous because of his viral videos, but his viral videos are famous and deserve mention. I suppose they could live in their own "James Franco's viral videos" entry or perhaps in the "List of Internet Phenomena" entry. By parodying himself and his industry, he has made himself more accessible and relatable to his fans than, say, Paul Rudd, another of the Judd Apatow ensemble. And yes, I think that adds to his fame.

If I can't convince you that viral videos are important in their own right, we may be at an impasse. I can only recommend that you read the Wikipedia article on the subject and perhaps research Lonely Girl, Chocolate Rain, the trailer for "Shining" (no "The), Leroy Jenkins, and the Star Wars kid. Viral videos are a pop culture phenomenon on par with TV shows.

For example, Chocolate Rain has almost 31 million views on YouTube; According to Nielsen, 1.72 million people watched "Everybody Hates Chris" on Friday, November 7th: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/11/08/friday-nielsen-ratings-cbs-makes-a-night-out-of-it/7832. Thus, As many people have watched one viral video as will watch an entire season of a sitcom produced by Chris Rock on a major TV network.

The reason I am trying to include James Franco's current viral video is just that; it's his current video making the rounds, with great mystery surrounding what he's promoting (an upcoming film, one assumes) and who is behind the video (again, suspicion falls on Judd Apatow). Obviously Wikipedia does not shy away from covering ongoing TV shows, sports seasons, and space missions, so I see no reason not to include it. It may not be important yet, but all of his other videos have become famous, so is it wrong to assume that this one will, too?

It seems that I'm advocating for more information, while you are arguing for less. You may think the extra information is trivial; I think his painting is trivial. Perhaps we should delete both sections?

Westcoastbrainiac (talk) 06:17, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The Lead
I edited the intro (lead) and it was reversed by ThinkBlue, so I figured we could discuss it here. My beef with the intro to this article is that it contains exact sentences from the Career section, and is far too detailed for the lead. A reader doesn't need to get a plot description of a movie in the lead section for an actor. Also, this intro contains nearly a full flimography for the actor. I'm all for a concise intro on pages for actors/directors/musicians. We don't need a complete list (with blue-links) in the first paragraph. Honestly, unless a person fought in World War II, it shouldn't be linked in their lead. And if the sentences in the lead are simply lists of all the movies and television shows Mr. Franco has starred in, it makes it difficult to read. The lead for an actor should list a few roles that they are most famous for, and let the character descriptions and plot summaries remain where they belong, in the body of the article. Peabody80 (talk) 15:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The intro should be brief, not thorough, and pithy, not indigestible.

First Film
Hello,

Just a bit of information for you on James Franco ... I distributed his first film "If Tomorrow Comes" Gerritt Steenhagen was the Producer and Director.

My company then was RGH Lions Share Pictures

Gloria Morrison 323-333-6111 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.129.204 (talk) 13:27, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

What Race is he?
I know he's an American but are his ancestor's Spaniard or Mexican? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faradism (talk • contribs) 01:46, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * His father is Swedish and Portuguese (hence the surname), his mother Russian Jewish. This is in the article. His race is caucasian. All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 23:01, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

He is a Jew after his mother. Not Caucasian. Like Arabs - semitic race. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.168.243.227 (talk) 19:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Flaws
Does this guy have any flaws? Because either that or him being humble are the two ways to reach people and gain more fans. Even I could nit pick a flaw and ask why he didn't do acting school and university school at age 18 instead of 28 or so. However, the main point is why would males like this guy whereas females might like someone who is flawless... males might need to like him because he is also humble or he can be related to as a male. TY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.69.9 (talk) 01:44, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Physically? No. Acting-wise? Yes. He's horrible at it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.47.15.38 (talk) 14:12, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Saturday Night
The article says
 * Franco produced and directed a documentary titled Saturday Night documenting a week in the production of an episode of SNL.

but there's no mention of the documentary in the filmography. 184.153.110.113 (talk) 19:52, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Green Hornet
Does anyone know of a credible reference that confirms he played Danny "Crystal" Clear? 65.102.211.54 (talk) 05:30, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Commencement speaker error...
"He was selected as the commencement speaker, the youngest, at his alma mater, UCLA, on Friday, June 12, 2009. On June 3, 2009, a press release announced Franco's cancellation as UCLA's commencement speaker due to a scheduling conflict, making it the second year in a row..."

The way this is written it sounds like he was selected to speak on the 12th, which clearly isn't the case - that's the date of the ceremony itself (and nine days after his cancellation, heh). Also, the source given for this is useless: a link to the Daily Bruin's homepage rather than the specific article. I'm fixing both issues. 98.254.42.152 (talk) 14:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

extremely pretentious but workaholic
There were an article of some psychologist, maybe his past psychologist, OR maybe a professor describing him as extremely pretentious. This is important because he himself, as view on multiple aspects, does not seem pretentious. I mean pretentious in a way that he thinks he is super special so says a psychologist or is it a professor? Either way, I also read from the some article and person that he is a workaholic and hence, that is why he gains good and stays ahead in all around productivity. SOMEONE PLEASE FIND THE ARTICLE. I KNOW KNOW I READ IT. 96.247.79.87 (talk) 03:29, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Franco is an absolute phony. A sense of inferiority drives him. His publicist(s) and other supporters have spent a lot of time crafting the most flattering wiki page of any I have ever seen...not a single blot on his record despite great criticism. He is neither a great actor, nor an intellectual. He's completely fake and it is transparent to anyone who follows him closely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.25.20 (talk) 23:09, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

"Unsigned," your entry is an example of such raging, rampant,unsupported, and (on the face of it) envious POV that I'm surprised that it wasn't instantly removed. Personally I think there's ample evidence that Franco is an actor with serious gifts, not only in the showstopping performances like "127 Hours" and "James Dean" but in the obscure indies like "Camille". As for his pursuing a dizzying variety of cultural and educational projects, he may be overdoing it a little, but his wish to live an intellectual and artistic life is laudatory, if anything. You say he's driven by an inferiority complex? I think this is true of almost every actor, male or female, who ever lived. Younggoldchip (talk) 21:47, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Akaminsky3, 5 May 2011
At the end of Early Life and Family section there is this sentence:

While working at the establishment, for his acting classes, he would practice accents on costumers.

It should be customers instead of costumers

Akaminsky3 (talk) 03:35, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks. -- Neil N   talk to me  03:38, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

main picture
The main picture is awful. Just saying.

CrocodilesAreForWimps (talk) 14:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

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WHY ALL THE UNSIGNED NEGATIVE POSTS?

Why be afraid to sign your Wikipedia name to your opinions of the subject? About the worst that can happen is that someone will disagree with you. And possibly prove you wrong.

Hmmm...I seem to have answered my own question. Younggoldchip (talk) 16:46, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

How about some clean-up ???
I think this article needs some serious clean-up. He is only 34 years old. I do not think it necessary to describe every little thing he has ever done. There are major actors who are much more accomplished and their bios are much less descriptive which is fine.

For example : the following is a paragraph in the article

He was subsequently cast as the title role in director Mark Rydell's 2001 TV biographical film James Dean.[24][25] To immerse himself in the role, Franco went from being a non-smoker to smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, dyed his dark brown hair blond, and learned to ride a motorcycle as well as play guitar and the bongos.[24] To have a greater understanding of Dean, Franco spent hours with two of Dean's associates. Other research included reading books on Dean and studying his movies.[24] While filming James Dean, the actor, to get into character, cut off communication with his family and friends, as well as his then-girlfriend. "It was a very lonely existence," he notes. "If I wasn't on a set, I was watching James Dean. That was my whole thinking. James Dean. James Dean."[24] Despite already being a fan of Dean, Franco feared he might be typecast if he'd captured the actor too convincingly. Ken Tucker of Entertainment Weekly wrote: "Franco could have walked through the role and done a passable Dean, but instead gets under the skin of this insecure, rootless young man."[26] He received a Golden Globe Award and nominations for an Emmy Award and a Screen Actors Guild Award (SAG).[27][28][29]

Do you really need a whole paragraph to describe his role and preparation for his James Dean movie? I don't think so. All of the paragraphs in the article have too much indepth description and definitely an overabundance of quotes by Franco that I think are completely unnecessary. The article as written is very tedious reading. Mylittlezach (talk) 19:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Too much of this article reads like someone's obsessive concern with detailing every moment of this man's life for no other reason than a drive to dwell on it.  There is far too much fluff and it gets in the way of the material that really matters, which is not quite so much as some may try to suggest there is.  KDS 4444  Talk  17:48, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Blood Meridian film adaptation
Has anyone commented in a significant source on whether the film should be made? I'm looking for something like my forum post called "Please Mr. Franco, don't shoot "Blood Meridian" except that is a forum post so we obviously can't use it here. Have any significant film/literature critics commented? 175.38.205.106 (talk) 04:42, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The "Fucking James Franco" Fan-fic
Are we still pretending this never happened? Franco read it, acknowledged it, and it prompted a back-and-forth that went viral. --2600:100F:B106:84F3:0:46:E42F:CB01 (talk) 07:04, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Regarding this categorisation, please see Talk:List of Jewish actors. 84.203.43.181 (talk) 23:58, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * From The Boston Globe, 2009: "After the ceremony, the actor said the bar mitzvah was "actually really touching. I'm Jewish, my mother's Jewish, but I wasn't raised Jewish. I guess I wasn't a man until tonight."" All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 03:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * BTW, though this other reference is not Franco, but Franco's mother, I did find it interesting: "BF: My kids know that I’m Jewish; they know they’re Jewish." All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 03:48, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Why is Jewish hyperethnocentrism "interesting"? I don't see this emphasis on ethnicity {or religion if we want to pretend "Jewish" is 'just a religion'} for ANY other group. It's not a strength of wikipedia.

50.136.53.238 (talk) 04:48, 21 March 2014 (UTC)ned

Adjunct professor status
Citation 4 does not support the statement that he is currently Adjunct at UCLA. The UCLA's English Department's faculty pages does not list him as a professor or even a lecturer. However, he is listed as a Visiting Assistant Professor in the School of Theater, Film, and Television. TFT page: http://www.tft.ucla.edu/2013/02/james-franco/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neighboc (talk • contribs) 02:02, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure he's a PhD candidate and not still just a PhD student?
The lead says specifically PhD candidate, and this phrase is often used wrong. PhD candidate does not mean the same thing as PhD student. A PhD candidate is specifically someone who has completed all the course work of a PhD program and is waiting on the approval of his dissertation/thesis, not just someone enrolled in a PhD program. Every source listed in the article just says he's a PhD student and I can't find any information saying he's finished all the course credits of his PhD program. The lead should be changed to say he's enrolled in a PhD program unless you can find a specific source regarding the amount of coursework he's completed.173.56.23.222 (talk) 03:23, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This distinction is not trivial and a claim of Ph.D. candidacy is one that requires a viable source in order to stand on its own.  KDS 4444  Talk  17:52, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 October 2013
Acting career 2008-2010: Please change the "$57.5 million" to "$60.7 million" in the sentence "To date, 127 Hours is one of his most well-reviewed movies[38] and was also a commercial success, earning $57.5 million against an $18 million budget.[60]". Refer reference 1. of the Wikipedia page of the movie 127 Hours.

Acting career 2011-present: Please change the "$90 million budgeted" to "$93 million budgeted" in the sentence "In May 2010, he was cast to star in Rupert Wyatt's $90 million budgeted Rise of the Planet of the Apes, a reboot of the Planet of the Apes series[65] which was released on August 5." Refer reference 1. of the Wikipedia page of the movie Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

Du LeCram (talk) 20:36, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅. References verified, numbers changed. —  Reatlas  (talk)  03:20, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2013
Please change "These arrests led to him briefly becoming a ward of the state." to "These arrests led to his briefly becoming a ward of the state." because the sentence requires a possessive pronoun.

Rose Parsons (talk) 02:55, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done, thanks! -- El Hef  ( Meep? ) 03:18, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Personal life - controversy. Really necessary?
An entire paragraph in the personal life section is dedicated to the controversy, but i really don't believe it needs to be or should be included in the article. Francos actions were not illegal, the controversy itself lasted for only a few days and wasn't really that big of a deal in the longer run. I believe that the incident is not notable enough to be mentioned on here, especially not dedicating over half the personal life section towards. Thehack771 (talk) 03:42, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 May 2014
James franco has won the award for 'best bed selfies' in the 2012 Movie Weeklys award giving ceremony.

Alliegreen65 (talk) 10:38, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 11:48, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Controversies
Recently, Franco has been involved with multiple eyebrow-raising events, especially over the internet. Should't these be added? -- Gourami Watcher  (?) 12:54, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Will these events have long-lasting notoriety or impact on his life? -- Neil N  talk to me  13:02, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2014
Poor grammar and unclear message at end of Early Life & Family: "Knowing that the aspiring actor was doing his best to follow his passion, Carnegie told Franco to pay him what he could and later on pay him back." Hoping it can be corrected. Cheers

Nowherebear88 (talk) 23:22, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done I opted for removal of this rather terse bit of info. Sam Sailor Sing 07:15, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Metamodernism
Hello, I added a small subsection on Franco and metamodernism, I hope this is all right with other editors. Franco is being associated with metamodernism a lot now and especially after his defense of Shia LaBeouf and what The Huffington Post says may be a manifesto by Franco on the subject. The speculation about whether Franco is doing metamodernist performance art like Shia, and maybe even writing a manifesto on it as Shia has, seems important.Vjdiju89 (talk) 15:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I have removed references to the manifesto and the Huffington Post article, as concerns have been raised on the Metamodernism talk page that it is a hoax. There don't appear to be any other sources that mention the manifesto. I am also not sure that metamodernism should have its own subsection here, since I see no evidence that he has ever actually used the term himself. Esmeme (talk) 15:29, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I reverted the change, sorry. My addition only said huffpo had talked about that website, not that the authorship was definite. I'm sure that if it is a hoax or not more will be written about it one way or another to settle the issue. Vjdiju89 (talk) 17:11, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Why add allegations? We should wait and see if the story has legs and confirmation. --Neil N  talk to me 17:16, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I do see your point but isnt the story in huffpo indicating a larger trend of associating Franco with metamodernist stunts? It seems the link to the "manifesto" thing is only there to support the huffpo article, not to make a claim. Its a third level source in support of a secondary one, it seems like. Vjdiju89 (talk) 18:14, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * See WP:NOTNEWS. There's no need to report on an allegation (especially in a BLP) unless it is widely reported and will have an impact on the subject's life. --Neil N  talk to me 18:21, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Having looked through the sources given, I've removed this section for now because is just a blog that says "I have no idea what a meta-modernist is. But I bet James Franco is one" and  does not explicitly describe Franco or his projects as metamodernist. The New York Times article   doesn't associate Franco with metamodernism either. The only thing we can say, then, is that Franco has written publicly in support of the performance art of Shia LaBeouf, which I've reworded as such here, and given a secondary source to. Esmeme (talk) 09:14, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * As an update, Vjdiju89 turns out to be one of several confirmed sockpuppets of Festal82, and has been blocked indefinitely. Esmeme (talk) 13:54, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

The Interview?
What, no reference to The Interview? 84.93.55.161 (talk) 07:44, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

is a skit about him in SNL really about him in Wiki?
This sentence 'This led to the actor being parodied in an episode of SNL '​s Weekend Update segment, which an Entertainment Weekly writer deemed "clever"' has got to be one of the weakest lines in any Wiki article. Is there any reason to keep it?

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2015
This information about Franco's 2014 exhibit at the Pace Gallery should be added to the 'Other projects' section. Also, his 'Other projects' section should be divided to organize said projects into specific categories (Directing, Writing, Photography, Art, etc.) to make the page cleaner and more accessible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smokygoddess (talk • contribs) 19:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

In April 2014, Franco exhibited a series of photographs at the Pace Gallery called New Film Stills, in which he restaged twenty-nine images from photographer Cindy Sherman's series, Untitled Film Stills. The exhibit garnered mainly negative reviews, calling Franco's appropriations 'sophomoric,' 'sexist' and 'embarrassingly clueless.'

Smokygoddess (talk) 19:10, 7 March 2015 (UTC) 21:34, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Extraterritoriality
Look. The Age of Consent in New York is 17. I know that. What that means given overriding Federal law, however, is that the consent of a 17-year-old is considered binding (not statutory rape) if and only if both individuals involved are New Yorkers (no Americans from other states, no foreigners) and all interactions take place in person, not online. This 17-year-old was a Foreign Citizen who spoke to Mr. Franco online.

Relevant Federal laws: Communications Decency Act of 1996, PROTECT Act of 2003, Child Online Protection Act of 1998

The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 06:29, 3 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The relevant federal laws you provided do not necessarily indicate that what James Franco did violated federal law. The PROTECT Act of 2003 in this case only applies if the activity is already illegal under federal or local law to begin with and if the person travelled to another place with the intent of committing the act.  The Child Online Protection Act of 1998 was struck down in 2009, before this fiasco ever happened.  The Communications Decency Act of 1996 does criminalize "communication which is obscene" via telecommunications, but what is classified as "obscene" is up to legal discussion.  Franco would have violated federal law if he (who is from California, where it is 18) deliberately went to New York to hook up with someone under 18, but I have yet to find anything that states that this was the case.  Sega31098 (talk) 03:07, 5 September 2016 (UTC)