Talk:James Madison University/Archive 1

WikiProject
It is time we get serious about improving JMU's pages. I think we should start a WikiProject devoted to James Madison University. What does everyone think? Kilroy55 00:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that's a good idea if you're still up for it. I created a project proposal here: . PAE2008 (talk) 02:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent idea! SchuminWeb (Talk) 10:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Awesome, anyone want to do a meet up at JMU to coordinate, or see if we can get other people interested? SADADS (talk) 16:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Fight song lyrics
Lyrics to songs, even to television theme songs, are often copyrighted. If it can be demonstrated that these lyrics are not, then they should be moved to wikisource. SchuminWeb (Talk) 08:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Template
I think it is time we start a JMU template. Started it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:James_Madison_University Kilroy55 00:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ordering of "Famous Alumni" section
Our "Famous Alumni" section seems to be growing at a decent pace, and we probably should address the question of how we ought to order the list. I see two ways of sorting it: By last name, or by graduation year. Both have equal value, and so I'm wondering what the rest of the group thinks... SchuminWeb (Talk) 03:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Other famous alumni articles are ordered by last name, which I find logical. Rtcpenguin 05:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. SchuminWeb (Talk) 22:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Membership of "Famous Alumni" section
Phil Vassar never actually graduated from JMU and never recieved a degree. It should probably be noted that eventhough he attended JMU briefly that he did not complete his requirements and dropped out. I also emailed the Media Relations Office and they replied that there was no record of him ever recieving a degree. If it is kept then I would suggest also adding NASCAR Winston Cup series driver Elliot Sadler to the list. He attended JMU for one year. --Strothra 20:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the section is poorly named if we are going to include people who attended but never graduated. I think only alumni should be listed, not notable people who came but failed to graduate. This could be easily remedied by creating one section with a different heading (Notable Former Students and Alumni) or two sections (Notable Alumni and Notable Former Students). -- Kilroy55 11:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No, it's not poorly named. See Alumni.  Alumni means someone who graduated as well as someone who attended.  Metros 15:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Example--UVa claims Edgar Allan Poe as an alumni despite that he never graduated.

Music in Athletics??
Why is the Music subsection in Athletics? Schumin you put it back after someone deleted it... I think it was deleted because it doesn't fit where it is now...

TRL 17:11, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, goodness... I see now. I don't know when it got demoted to a third-level heading, but I went ahead and promoted it back to where it belongs.  That is a bit odd... SchuminWeb (Talk) 22:13, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

MRD
Can we talk about the national awards and recognitions given to the Marching Royal Dukes marching band? Most of them can be found here: http://www.jmu.edu/music/mrd/about.html

I agree. If the brass band has a section, the MRD's should have one too!


 * Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).  The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. SchuminWeb (Talk) 16:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Censorship
Schuminweb, please do not censor entries which have been cited. Entering cited articles is not vandalism. In the future, please do the courteous thing and request dispute mediation from other users. Due to concerns over article content I have requested dispute intervention from Wikipedia admins on this issue. Strothra 11:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

True, the article was cited, but the author was clearly not being serious. Rtcpenguin

Perhaps, but that source is cited. Can you prove with a counter-citation(s) that Dr. Rose has, in fact, not done those things? Since the citation is a published media source the burden of proof falls on the individual(s) who denies the claims of the article. Strothra


 * Here's my counter-citation for you. See this article.  Take the hint.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:42, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Yo Schuminweb! I see you are going down the nasty route. Please do not forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks thanks bro!!

The comments made on the James Madison University entry are cited in a published source. It is now up to you to go through the proper channels to prove the article itself invalid. I am disappointed that you, as the objecting party, are unwilling to prove the article's accusations to be false but would rather resort to such implied personal attacks. The task is a possible one to undertake but the process of debate over source validity is an important part of Wikipedia. I encourage you to undertake the process. Further, to the above poster, please include your ID next time. Strothra


 * All I have to say is that if the shoe fits... SchuminWeb (Talk) 11:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I will quote the article you linked to by saying "[t]elling someone 'Don't be a dick' is something of a dick-move in itself..." Anyway, I feel that your recent behavior of attempting to erase entries for "vandalism" when they were not vandalism and of making a personal attack highlight serious concerns regarding your judgement.  You seem as if you only pretend to uphold Wikipedia's procedures and rules.  I simply asked you to prove the article wrong and you either will not or cannot.  If you do then there is very good reason to strike the article citation.  If you do not then there's reason for you to complain.  Strothra

Mediaton Request
It has been requested that this issue go to mediation. You can find the mediation page here Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-02-23 James Madison University. I will message all users later on. Cameronian 13:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Cameronian has dropped the case. Is there currently any need for mediation? --Fasten 17:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. The case was originally brought up by Strothra, whose entire edit history consisted of less than fifty edits, and has made no edits at all since February 28.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I wasn't the one who made the request. I had taken it on as a mediator. I had also never dropped the case. It was my intention to carry on as mediator in this case, to tie up before leaving Wikipedia completely. However it seems YOU think you own the place. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cameronian (talk &bull; contribs).


 * Cameronian: Your user page states that you left wikipedia not that you were going to leave wikipedia. If a mediator leaves Wikipedia it is the responsibility of other mediators to take care of the open cases ve leaves behind. If you had the intend to continue mediation you could have stated that intend before announcing your departure. --Fast e n talk 10:25, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Information
Undergraduate enrollment source: http://www.jmu.edu/instresrch/notes/Vol19no5.pdf

I can't find a definitive source as to whether the motto is "Knowledge is Liberty" or "All Together One". For now I'm leaving it as is. Rtcpenguin 04:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I personally am leaning towards "Knowledge is Liberty" as being more the "official" motto, but of course I need some definitive source. Still, "All Together One" was first introduced my freshman year, and I never quite understood what that was about...  SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:34, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * "All Together one" is a slogan President Rose used in his 1999 inaugural address to describe the spirit of the university. In past years it's been "The Spirit of Blue Stone Hill," "The Madison Way," and "The JMU Way."All Together One History.  According to the website, "All Together One" is the offical university theme.  The commencement website is  a reference to KiL being used as a motto but I can't find anything stating it as official.  I would assume that's the case though. --Strothra 17:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I found that the phrase "All Together One" is actually the official university theme, and they specify official usage for it on that website. Kyre Elsion 20:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, I remember that area of JMU's site. Any time I needed quick access to official JMU graphics, that's where I would go.  In this case, though, we still haven't determined "theme" vs. "motto", which can be two different concepts.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The motto is "knowledge is liberty" -- come on guys, not that hard to find. http://www.jmu.edu/commencement/Seal.html

Famous??
I think we need to analyze if alumna are actually famous before listing them in the famous alumni section. I don't think Colin Pine should be in the famous alumni section.(Slate123 05:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC))


 * Considering the recent discussion regarding Phil Vassar having never actually graduated from JMU and being listed there, I think it's probably about time we look at revamping the section. SchuminWeb (Talk) 07:58, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Colin Pine is still in the news and anybody who know about Yao Ming or the Houston Rockets knows who he is. That makes him famous in my book. He spent more than four years there.(azileretsis 20:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC))


 * Slate is correct. Pine is a translator whose name hardly precedes his reputation.  Being a glorified personal assistant to a famous individual does not make that person famous himself.  Before someone is listed as famous they should, at the very least, meet the same general standards set aside in WP:BIO. --Strothra 12:03, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I have changed the section title to Distinguished Alumni. I don't think it is important to have Famous alums only, but instead alums who have accomplished themselves in thier respective area.I think that it is important to consider that some accomplished peoploe may not be "famous" and that "famous" may not be the distinguishing factor we need to use. TRL 02:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Once again, I will state that the individual should still meet the general standards set aside in WP:BIO regardless as to whether you use the terms "famous," "notable," or "distinguished." Further, please keep the list in alphabetical order when adding alumni.  --Strothra 11:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Are following people really notable alumni to merit that meest the standard set aside in WP:BIO?
 * Kenneth Bartee: CEO of a company that doesn't even have a section in Wikipedia.
 * Mike Thomas: Being an executive at a large company does not meet the standards in WP:BIO. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.235.176.86 (talk • contribs).
 * Why is Phil Vassar still listed in the alumni section? He is not an alumnus of the university, and should be removed from this section. --TRL (talk) 21:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Inclusion of Subsections in Athletics
Is it really neccesary to have a profile of the football and basketball teams? The profiles of individual selected teams is not encyclopedic. What is encyclopedic are the notable accomplishments of JMU athletics. Not to mention the fact that by selecting certain teams to profile you are inevitably leaving out others. JMU has more sports teams than that. I propose that the section be updated accordingly unless there are objections. --Strothra 22:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * If you're going to redo the athletics section, restyle it to match the one for Virginia Tech. SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll try that. I'm a little busy right now so it may take a while.--Strothra 00:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Why not do a profile of each team? Encyclopedias are used to provide information. When I added the Athletic section, I only had time to add some sections, then they were expanded. I haven't had a chance to add the other teams. I would suggest, rather than trying to be like VATech we instead profile our athletic programs, and their accomplishments. TRL 02:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I can see that getting to be a bit overpowering and making the article really long. As it is, I don't think that our athletics section is a "good read" as it currently stands.  It doesn't "flow".  SchuminWeb (Talk) 09:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Well we can consider it a work-in-progress but it seems that it would be rather lengthy and something of that magnitude would befit its own article entirely. I don't know if there are any sort of guidelines for article length and superflousness.  --Strothra 04:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * See Article size for guidelines on article length. SchuminWeb (Talk) 09:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't delete my post regarding COB ranked # 35
According to Wikipedia:

"If you cite college and university rankings, be precise and honest. Claims that an institution "places highly" in rankings are just as vague as claims that it is "prestigious" and "excellent," and are more dishonest in that they seem to cite an authoritative source. Where possible, rankings should be reported as numeric values, with years and sources provided; and as they are such specific facts, they should not occupy an article's lead section."

The numbers are precise, do not delete my section again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.219.88.140 (talk • contribs)

I deleted it because it is an inappropriate section for such things not to mention that there is a good bit of controversy over that particular study as it has since been shown to be skewed and leaves out many of the major schools in the Mid-west and West Coast. If you would like, then you may create a section for rankings but it will be removed again if you do not include multiple rankings. This article must have some standards. Further, do not presume to tell me what to do in my edits especially since you are both a vandal and not signed in. See WP:Bold. In standardizing this article with articles of most universities, please realize that most university articles do not include rankings. You don't see Princeton posting up their rankings. It cheapens the article which is supposed to be encyclopedic, not an advertisement. --Strothra 17:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with Strothra about not including the ranking on the basis that the study is flawed or controversial. BusinessWeek has been publishing graduate business school ranking since 1988 while this is the first time they have published undergraduate business school it does not mean that the study is flawed or controversial. I have not read anything that implies that this study is flawed or controversial and Strothra haven't post anything to back his claims. Most universities do include rankings in their wikipedia articles including the current undergraduate BusinessWeek ranking and Princeton University do post their ranking if you read their wikipedia article. I do feel that including the ranking information is inappropriate as a separate section but I feel it is appropriate to include the ranking as a part of the Academics section.(Slate123 17:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC))


 * I apologize for the confusion I may have created regarding my decision to leave it out of the article. I was not using that as a sole or even large reason for leaving out a ranking.  My primary reasoning is that it is not standard form for Wikipedia articles concerning universities to include such rankings.  Further, if we were to decide to include such a ranking then it should be accompanied by other rankings of the university.  No attempt to be made to edit the article to include the ranking unless that edit includes a good faith effort at researching all other rankings and including them. Further, please note that this was, in fact, BusinessWeek's first business school ranking which it claimed to be "comprehensive." Such a claim naturally brings controversy.  I actually read two news articles criticizing BusinessWeek's approach to creating the ranking after it came out and I'm trying to relocate them.  I will post them if I can find time to do so. In the meantime, you may wish to review this article which discusses the natural controversy over business school rankings. Also, this website from Boston College has a section at the top which delves into general controversy concerning university rankings.  --Strothra 22:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the opening section of the article is an appropriate section for listing selected rankings. This practice is typical in articles for other universities and I see no reason rankings should be omitted in this one. Rtcpenguin 13:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * "In standardizing this article with articles of most universities, please realize that most university articles do not include rankings. You don't see Princeton posting up their rankings. It cheapens the article which is supposed to be encyclopedic, not an advertisement." --Strothra 17:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC).


 * True, Strotha, but as of this moment Cornell University (a featured article here on Wikipedia, something that Princeton is not) includes its academic rankings and statistics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.126.140.199 (talk • contribs)


 * If that is true, then we should put a few up there, don't you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.111.196.107 (talk • contribs)

Info Box
Could someone edit the info box so that "Graduate Students" actually shows up when you view the article? I don't know how to do this but it needs to be done. --Strothra 15:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Athletics website punctuation error
This is somewhat pedantic and doesn't belong in this article, but the JMU athletic department persists in describing Dukes fans as "Dukes' Fans" (Dukes-apostrophe-ess fans). [] Sure, you could argue that the Dukes own the fans, but if "the Beatles' fans" aren't "Beatles' fans" and "the Knicks' fans" aren't "Knicks' fans" (they are not: they are "Beatles fans" and "Knicks fans"), then why are the Dukes' fans called "Dukes' fans"?


 * I'll give you that. It does seem somewhat absurd.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 03:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The apostrophe implies belonging to in a word that already has an 's' on the end, eg. Those are James' shoes

It's time - a references section is needed
I think it's time that we converted all our little inline link citations to a formal reference section using tags. We certainly have enough of them that it would not be wasted. SchuminWeb (Talk) 08:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Removed section on the COB due to copyvio
I've removed the section on the College of Business, as it was lifted directly from here. Please do not re-add it. SchuminWeb (Talk) 02:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

JMU and Harrisonburg
The "JMU and Harrisonburg" section of the article is an embarrassment. You could at least add something that discusses the following:

The Princeton Review's 2006 guide, Best 361 Colleges, in its profile of JMU, quotes students as recognizing the school's "welcoming environment," "friendly and outgoing" student body, "well-ranked academics" and ability to deliver "more fun than you can have anywhere else." JMU faculty are praised for their "willingness to extend learning outside of the classroom" and their "realistic method of teaching to prepare students for real-world job applications." http://www.jmu.edu/news/TheNewsroom/natl_recognitions.shtml It contradicts the "snobby" depictment and does not mention rankings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.175.112.177 (talk • contribs).


 * So far, you have described the James Madison University community, rather than the citizenry of Harrisonburg at large. Unlike many college towns, Harrisonburg is a thriving city on its own, even when JMU is not in session, and thus does not become a "college ghost town" during the summer.  As an alumnus of JMU, and someone who lives relatively close by, I agree with the factuality of what you mention, but disagree that this illustrates your point.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 17:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

"Friendly and outgoing" contradicts "snobby". That is the point. I didn't mean to include each sentence as part of the argument. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.175.112.177 (talk • contribs).


 * Well, I still see it as an apples vs. oranges comparison. In your original message, you said, "The Princeton Review's 2006 guide, Best 361 Colleges, in its profile of JMU, quotes students as recognizing the school's 'welcoming environment,' 'friendly and outgoing' student body..." (and blah blah blah you get the point).  Note my boldfacing of "students".  That's my key.  You're discussing student perceptions of JMU the institution.


 * Compare with the article, that states, "JMU students are generally regarded by Harrisonburg residents as 'snobby.'" Again note my boldfacing.  This is why I consider it to be apples/oranges.  You're taking two different sets of opinions on different things and making it appear as one.  In one, students of JMU are commenting on JMU the institution.  In the other, Harrisonburg residents are commenting on students of JMU.  So it's not the same thing by any means.


 * That's more what I'm trying to address here. It's two different things altogether, like "Homer Nixon" (referring to Homer Simpson), where Smithers said, "They spell and pronounce their names differently, sir," indicating that it's a different thing entirely.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

You're so smart, SchuminWeb, yes you are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.175.112.177 (talk • contribs).


 * Since the anonymous user didn't do much in the way of providing something cogent, how about this for an argument?: there is nothing in the article that cites a Harrisonburg resident describing a student as "snobby", or as anything else similar for that matter. Saying "generally regarded" is probably a good example of weasel wording.  I assert that the whole paragraph should be removed unless proper citations can be provided by an editor.  --Takeel 13:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I'm new to wiki, so I'm not sure how to edit this correctly.  Can SchuminWeb edit the paragraph?  I dare not out of fear of crashing the website.


 * Why not try your hand at it? It's practically impossible to screw up the site, and even if you do make a mistake, the wiki format ensures that it's reversible.  See WP:BOLD for more information.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Potential featured article?
I've done a bit of an overhaul on our article, converting all the references to the format, adding information about a previous attempt in 2001 to cut the athletic teams, adding a lot more wikilinks, and generally giving the whole article some much-needed attention.

With that done, has anyone given any thought about making this article into a featured article? I think we're well on our way, and it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility. SchuminWeb (Talk) 06:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The most well done articles on colleges and universities on Wikipedia, in my opinion, have a lot of pictures of various points across the campus. Could we post some additional non-copy protected images of JMU before we submit as a featured article?


 * You're looking at someone who did a lot of photography of JMU throughout my four and a half years there (I loved it so much that I stayed an extra semester, ha ha). As a result, I've got lots of photos of campus dating from 1999-2003.  I also have some photos from later on.  Let me go digging.  Besides the image of Wilson Hall, I've also got one of Potomac Hall already on Commons at Image:Potomac hall.jpg.  I'll upload a bunch to Commons so we'll have something to pick and choose from.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Mmmkay... I've uploaded a bunch of shots of campus that I've taken over the years. I've also added a link to a Commons category of such shots.  It's also inspired me to do an all-day photo shoot at JMU.  And I'm not afraid of the parking Nazis, since they have nothing to use to make me pay, so I will feel free to park wherever I wish.  Any areas in particular that you'd like to see?  SchuminWeb (Talk) 07:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, not having a car here saves me from them. I'm a bit afraid of what I can look forward to next year...As for picture taking, I'd suggest the following places:


 * ISAT
 * The new stadium turf (so much better than the old kind)
 * Marching band practice field
 * Convo center
 * D-Hall and some of the newer food places on campus (Top Dog, C-Store East, etc.)
 * Any other places that you haven't taken pictures of, or any of the same locations you have older pictures from


 * I can't think of anything else. You don't need to get all of these, but at least then there is a large pool to choose from to be included in the article. -- Johnny06man 20:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * To add onto what Johnny06man had said, I suggest some images of the Bluestone area, though I'm aware that we already have one photo of Wilson Hall (and I wish we could get NEWER shot of that building, too). Such beatiful stone architecture should not go unnoticed!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.126.183.37 (talk • contribs)


 * To touch on what both people have commented, I like the idea of doing ISAT and Convo, since my only decent ISAT exterior photos are low-resolution. I have no photos of the Convocation Center.  Also, re: Marching band practice field, do they still practice in front of Hillside Hall?  If so, I've got that, kind of, at Image:Hillside Hall (JMU).jpg.  That photo, though, is more to illustrate the Hillside area than the field.  The field itself is not particularly photogenic unless the band is actually practicing on it.  As for bluestone, agreed 100%.  A lot of my campus photos are decent photography, but crappy resolution (for instance, see Image:Converse Hall (JMU).jpg).  Blame an old camera for that, but I consider most of the low-res shots unsuitable for an FA on Wikipedia.  Also, regarding the new stadium turf, are you referring to the new field near the College Center, or did they re-turf Bridgeforth Stadium again?  And as for food venues, just what is "Top Dog"?  Back when I was at JMU 1999-2003, Festival was new, as was C-Store East (and quite different than their present appearance), and D-Hall was renovated to its present form the summer before my junior year.  Now as for when I'll be able to do new photos, I don't know, as it looks like my planned photo date will be rained out.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 22:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The marching band is supposed to use the field for practice, but this year the athletics department is pretty good about letting us use the football stadium for afternoon practice. The stadium turf I was referring to is in fact the football stadium. They put in a new turf over the summer. I'm not sure what type it is, but it definitely looks different than the old one. Top Dog opened either last year or this year. I remember them building it a year and a half ago when I was at the campus. It is above PC Dukes, across from Grafton-Stovall. Another location possibly could be Memorial Hall, the old Harrisonburg High School. I haven't really been over in that area this semester so I'm not sure how good it would look, but it might be nice to have if we add a section to the article about JMU buying the property (I think the local population wasn't too happy about how the deal was made). -- Johnny06man 04:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Regarding the stadium, it could be the new FieldTurf, which, if I'm not mistaken, has basically replaced AstroTurf in the field. Prior to the replacement last summer, the turf on the field had dated from summer 2000, after someone had set the old turf (that would make it two turfs ago) on fire.  If I can get into Bridgeforth Stadium, I'll certainly get some overview shots.  As for the old Harrisonburg High School, getting some shots will certainly work, though it's likely I'll just take some outside shots and move on.  But my understanding is that you're right - the locals weren't pleased about how JMU ended up owning the property outright.  Of course, on that note, we probably ought to expand the history of JMU section in the article a bit.  As I mentioned, there's a book about JMU history that I am planning to read when I finish the book I'm currently reading.  As for "Top Dog", I find the fact that it's there to be slightly amusing.  That was known as "PC Ballroom" back then, because that space was a modestly-sized ballroom.  Most people then knew it as the place where you bought and sold back your books before the Bookstore moved to its present location in the fall of 2002.  But it's certainly worth a look, and perhaps a few shots while I'm at it.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 08:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, it certainly is possible, but we do still have a lot to do. Before going for FA, we should submit the article for peer review. This should give us more ideas on what is lacking. Also, I agree with the above poster that more pictures could be used. If I can get my girlfriend to lend me her camera, I could probably get some more taken. What locations would we want pictures of? -- Johnny06man 03:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As I mentioned above, I've already got a bunch, and I'm going to upload some of those. Also, yes - we need a peer review.  I'm somewhat familiar with the steps to featuredom, but not all that well-versed on it.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I also have a book that is on my to-read list called Rooted on Blue Stone Hill by Nancy Bondurant Jones that I got at the Green Valley Book Fair. When I read that, I'll see what's worth citing.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 07:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * This article has a long way to go before even being close to Featured Article quality. The layout and content of the entire article is fairly inconsistent and certain sections (school of music, notable alumni) could (and probably should) be moved into their own articles. Also, sections like "History" and "Academics" need a lot more elaboration and additional content. The introduction is overlong (see other university articles like featured article Cornell and UVA), and should be divided into new sections (Student Life for example). Rtcpenguin 13:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I will nominate this article for GA status...that should bring us on our way to FA status in the future. Chrisfortier 04:19, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Andy Perrine
I noticed that a user named Andy Perrine has edited the article. While usernames do not necessarily reflect a "real life" identity, I feel that it may be important to note that a man named Andrew Perrine is Associate Vice President of Communications and Marketing at JMU. --Takeel 20:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

B class rating
I rated this article at B class because it fulfills the criteria listed WikiProject Virginia/Assessment. I think that this could easily pass for GA status maybe A class. This article still has a ways to go before it becomes features. It could work on being more comprehensive in some area, especially the Academics section. The administration section is also a bit short. T REX speak 20:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Football stadium
I noticed Bridgeforth Stadium has its own article. Can anyone think of a good place to link to it from this article? There really isn't all that much about the football team so it seems a little strange to add a footnote about the stadium. Rtcpenguin 19:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Academics
Should we open new pages for each college in the academics section featuring those schools' rankings plus major and minor offerings, traditions, notable alumni and faculty, and other unique college features? Then is it possible to summarize the pages in the main page? Chrisfortier 16:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Title IX
Where does the Title IX segment belong? Does it better fit the James Madison University article, or the James Madison University Dukes article? Currently, the same text is in both locations. I believe that the main chunk of text should go in one or the other, and the other one should be shortened and main used to direct people to the other if nothing else. Thoughts? SchuminWeb (Talk) 06:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I was just about to comment on this as well. I think the entire Title IX text should be removed from the JMU article as it isn't very significant to the university in the grand scheme of things. Also, I'd like to see the entire athletics section shortened in the JMU article and the detail be moved to the sports article. Rtcpenguin 17:07, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

School of music
The section on the school of music is too long. It either needs to be shortened or placed in its own article. Rtcpenguin 14:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I would have no problem forking it out. SchuminWeb (Talk) 15:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Should we then put it as part of a new College of Visual and Performing Arts page? Chrisfortier 03:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd put it on James Madison University School of Music unless you want to write about the other areas in that college. SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll start a stub that lists the majors and you can move the school of music on there. Chrisfortier 03:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Failing GA
I am failing this for a very simple reason: inadequate referencing. Once I got through the history section and didn't see a footnote until the last graf, I knew I would have to do this. If anything in an article should have solid sourcing, it should be the history section. There are other things, like the bit about the campus moving in the campus section, where the absence of a citation is conspicuous.

Also, it's not fatal to a GA nom, but I would consider separating the non-grad alums from the grads in the alumni list (and maybe spinning that one off as a separate article entirely).

Otherwise, this is a broad article that is well-organized and presented. Given an equivalent level of sourcing, I believe this could easily be successfully renominated. Daniel Case 14:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with the alumni section suggestion, this would solve the Phil Vassar issue.--TRL (talk) 21:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Peer institutions
An anaomous user added some "peer institutions" that were apparently from the Princeton Review. However PR does not list any of those schools as peers and the admission statistics for a few don't match up at all. It should be taken into account that most college pages do not use specific schools to compare themselves academically, simply because its incredibly subjective and not encyclopedic. There is a list of "peer institutions" from the state that can be found here (Miami University is an official peer institution, the others are not). Stick with published rankings (which they have plenty of) since they can be verified. Bvjrm (talk) 18:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggest Re-Write Construction Section - DIRECT COPY
The information about construction projects on campus is almost a direct copy from an old JMU Press Release. The section needs updated to reflect the actual projects on campus, and those that have been completed.


 * Several new construction projects on the campus of James Madison University have been included in Governor Tim Kaine's $1.65 billion higher education bond package. Governor Kaine's proposal designates more than $96 million for JMU projects. Among the projects included in the proposal are the construction of a new biotechnology building, Centennial Hall, ($44.8 million) and the renovation and expansion of Duke Hall ($43.4 million). The proposal also includes $8.6 million as the final installment payment for Rockingham Memorial Hospital.

--TRL (talk) 21:34, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Centennial Info
Please add information about the centennial celebrations and events... these are pretty significant in the history of the university. --TRL (talk) 21:35, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No one's stopping you from adding it. Cite something and go for it!  Be bold!  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:40, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

JMU Wiki-organization
Anyone interested in a JMU Wikipedia student organization?SADADS 18:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

"Mecca"?
"JMU's reputation as a party school also further strains its relation with the community, as student housing surrounding the university has long been a mecca for underaged drinking. Many in the community stereotype the students because of this reputation, leading to further strain between each group"

I won't disagree- there are Harrisonburg residents who are concerned about the relationship between the city and the university, but I can't help but think the above statement is overkill. The first clause, "JMU's reputation as a party school also further strains its relation with the community", seems suitable enough to make the point (despite being grammatically unstable). The second bit, "It has long been a mecca for underage drinking" is inappropriate, however.

Mecca is a city in Saudi Arabia, regarded as the holiest meeting site in Islam, and it is not an accurate literal description of social life around JMU. The use of the word "Mecca" in this context could be offensive regardless of any religious affiliation.

Again, I acknowledge that there is tension between the community and JMU due in part to excessive partying, but still- that entire paragraph is based largely on opinion. I would appreciate knowing specifically what these community stereotypes are, and how they are known.

Hopefully I am doing this right... sorry if this seems like a "personal attack". Never done the Wikipedia thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.254.234.25 (talk) 08:52, 2 January 2011 (UTC)


 * When you said "Mecca", the first thought that crossed my mind was about my old hall director in Potomac Hall, Mecca Marsh. Don't scare me like that.  :-)


 * Otherwise, though, "a mecca for" appears to be a fairly common term outside of a religious context, and so I think we can get away with using the term in that way.


 * However, we have a problem with that statement entirely, since it currently has a big fact tag at the end of it. Thus I'm pulling that entire passage unless we can find some citations for it.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 15:28, 2 January 2011 (UTC)


 * SchuminWeb is correct for both. Saying something is a "mecca" ("that place is a tourist mecca") is very common and has no religious meaning.  It obviously comes from the holy Islamic city of Mecca and the fact that all Muslims are required to make the Hajj pilgrimage there; in other words, Mecca draws a LOT of people, so applying "mecca" means something is very popular and attracts lots of people.  In this case, though, it's much more of a point of view term that is unsourced, so removing the statement is correct.  Living in a college town similar to Harrisonburg, it is difficult to write about the relationship between "town and gown" with reliable sources unless someone has actually written about it in a reliable source.  There are definitely strains between the two, but often those are more in line of what you hear around town or an article about a disturbance here and an article there.  To be honest, the above paragraph is common for any college town that has a large public university (I could substitute my hometown of Kent, Ohio and Kent State University in that paragraph and it would be true or even Athens, Ohio and Ohio University).  --JonRidinger (talk) 18:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Facebook Integration to Wiki page
I noticed that if you are currently a JMU student and you click "James Madison University" it references this wiki page. However there isn't an image on the facebook page. I have tried making the image in the listbox a gallery image in hopes of facebook recognizing the image. Its puzzling since so many other universities have an image from their wikis on their facebook page such as UCONN and UW Madison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Webpage88 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The page you referenced was automatically created by Facebook using the Wikipedia article. The university's actual Facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/jamesmadisonuniversity.  At the top of your Facebook link, it says just below the title "Did you mean James Madison University?" with a link to the official JMU Facebook page.  Adding "gallery" won't change anything on a Facebook page, but does make a box around the image here and places it off center.  Infoboxes aren't set up to hold galleries.  --JonRidinger (talk) 21:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

That's true, and I understand that a gallery might not work. However the issue is still weird considering other schools have similar pages but also have a wikipedia page with an image. What is different about our page is that the connection isn't being made to Facebook, leading me to think the images aren't tagged or setup correctly. If you look at the UW Madison page it has an image on the wiki page but also suggests the other UW Madison page, while ours is blank. Most people visit the page with the wiki information because it's the link on every JMU student's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Webpage88 (talk • contribs) 21:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
 * To the best of my knowledge, we don't do anything special whatsoever in any of our articles to make them accessible to Facebook or otherwise integrate the two websites. So your guess is as good as mine as to what is different about these articles and Facebook pages.  But without a really good guess (i.e. one supported by solid evidence) we shouldn't blindly change or experiment with our articles.  It might be quicker and better to find someone at Facebook so you can ask them for solid answers so we don't spend our time spinning our wheels. ElKevbo (talk) 21:56, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

The U?
Does anyone have any evidence that this university is referred to as "The U" by anyone? An unregistered editor is edit warring to include this in the lead but providing no evidence or justification. ElKevbo (talk) 23:02, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I take the lack of response to mean "no" and I've removed the nickname from the article. If someone believes it should be readded, please discuss it here - and bring evidence! ElKevbo (talk) 01:43, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Community Relations
While I agree with what was written, the so-called "Community Relations" section is just unacceptable. I don't see anything about JMU's actual community relations, I read a couple sentences about the city's antipathy towards the university's expansion with the remainder being about the riots. I understand those are upfront and current issues, but they don't deserve the title of "Community Relations". If we are going to really include a section about this topic, we should have edited it to Wikipedia's standards. Straight from Wiki: "Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view." Considering the stretch of time (over a century) the university has existed, with all of its dealings of students, faculty, administration and alumni with the city and surrounding area through performances, charity, conventions, lectures, forums, among other events, you would think that there would be something positive that could have been written about the subject at hand. There wasn't, and so it remains unfair and disproportionate because the author has failed to represent the majority of students, faculty, administration and alumni that have worked hard over the decades to establish and improve community relations. This section was not authored from a neutral point of view, and must be re-edited, or at the very least must be renamed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.12.77.53 (talk) 06:00, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

''The community relations section is dominated by one negative incident. The riot subsection unnecessarily had a timeline of events from the 2010 disturbance, and has been condensed but includes all original citations. Also, the community relations section has been moved under the Athletics section and above Notable Alumni so that all happenings within the university are discussed before the reader moves onto happenings off campus. '' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.4.197.115 (talk) 15:49, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I was going to express the same sentiments above. Since it has already been done for me, I see no reason why the entire Community relations heading shouldn't be deleted, if not heavily revised. Timothysandole (talk) 20:23, 3 April 2013 (UTC)


 * While the section might require some trimming and editing, it's going too far to remove it entirely. It's fairly well-sourced and the topic is germane and important.  It seems to violate NPOV to completely remove all of this material leaving the entire article a paen singing the praises of this infallible institutional font of light and sweetness.  How about this:

Community relations
The University's rapid expansion has created tension in the city-university relationship with issues such as growth planning. In 2006, the local ABC affiliate reported that the university had nearly doubled in size in the last 20 years, including purchases of several local properties.

The student body has also occasionally clashed with local police in a popular off-campus block party. In 2000, the party with about 2,500 students grew out of hand and required a police presence at the Forest Hills townhouse complex on Village Lane. Ten years later, police equipped with riot gear used force to disperse a group of 8,000 college-aged individuals at the party. Several participants were airlifted to a Medical Center in Charlottesville to treat their injuries. The university has condemned the behavior of the block party attendees.

That ensures that readers are informed of (a) the university's rapid and continuing expansion that has required coordination with local government and citizens and (b) a regular party largely put on by students off campus that has grown very out of control several times requiring police in riot gear and medivac flights for participants. ElKevbo (talk) 16:33, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I would recommend integrating this into the history section rather than making it a "community relations" section since the concern is that it really doesn't reflect community relations. I live in a college town very similar to Harrisonburg and we've had many of the same issues mentioned in this section regarding out of control parties (many of which are attended by non-students or students from other schools) and the strain that and just regular university growth can put on "town-gown" relations. I think the title "Community relations" gives it undue weight. In just about any similar setup--smaller-sized city or town with a large public university--you're going to see stuff like this. --JonRidinger (talk) 12:47, 6 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Good idea. I'll do that. ElKevbo (talk) 18:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

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"The U" nickname
Can the editor(s) who keep adding the nickname "The U" please provide some sources for this unlikely nickname? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 16:38, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

This is always necessary
Avoid academic boosterism

Edith J. Carrier Arboretum at James Madison University
Hello, My name is Joe Stephens and I am a Marketing Assistant here at the Edith J. Carrier Arboretum. I would like to add a section about the “Edith J. Carrier Arboretum” to this page but since I am a conflict-of-interest, I violate Wikipedia’s policy. With that being said, I was wondering if it would be ok if I could submit a section made up of a couple of paragraphs explaining what the arboretum does, where we are located, and maybe some key features along with our logo to this page. I am currently in the works of a submission so I do not have the final draft ready but I just wanted to run it by first before proceeding to submit the request.

Also, what is usually the time frame for a submission to be accepted? A couple of days? A week?

Please let me know whenever you are free.

Thanks! Joe JoeAtEdithJCarrierArboretum (talk) 20:04, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Moving of images and creating an image gallery
When I looked at this page I noticed that there were a number of images that did not directly relate to the text in the section that they were imbedded in. For example there was a photo of Varner House but no reference in the text. Rather than just remove them I created an image gallery at the bottom of the page and moved those images there. I believe that some of the other images in the text should be moved to the image gallery alongside some new images. Gusfriend (talk) 23:48, 11 March 2022 (UTC)