Talk:James Monroe

Suggestion: Move quotation to Wikiquote
As the whole quotation part is only quotes, I suggest a move to Wikiquote and/or add of when, where and why he said certain words. --SakJur (talk) 18:13, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Elections
There is no section on his election. It should discuss how he was selected to be the candidate and why there was no serious opponent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.26.113.182 (talk) 15:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * A very good point. I have added a short section. Mangoe (talk) 18:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Slavery
In the section on Slavery, concerning the slave uprising in Southampton County in October 1799, the article says

“Monroe took pains to see that the charged rebels received proper legal treatment before they were executed, demonstrating a marked concern for their legal rights. He conducted an exhaustive investigation into the incident and saw to it the slaves involved received a fair trial.”

1) Who says these slaves received “fair trial”? And which slaves?

2) What “legal rights” did these slaves have?

3) What was “proper legal treatment” before they were executed, and how is that "concern"?

Concerning Gabriel's rebellion

"Monroe again took an unpopular position in supporting fair trials and attempting to explain and justify slave actions."

The writer failed to establish that the slaves actually received a fair trial in the fall of 1799, yet repeats it and now claims the slaves in Gabriel’s Conspiracy had a fair trial as well – and all at the behest of Governor Monroe.

Then it says Monroe, the governor, tried to "justify" a slave uprising? He tried to do so in 1799 and 1800?

The article then says "over 30 blacks were executed". And yet these are “fair trials” with “legal rights”?

How exactly did Monroe support human or civil rights in these cases?

There is no citation for these comments, and even then you'd have to justify these sentences.Ebanony (talk) 05:55, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The text follows the RS, specifically: Arthur Scherr, "Governor James Monroe and the Southampton Slave Resistance of 1799," Historian; 1999 61(3): 557–578 and Douglas R. Egerton, Gabriel's Rebellion: The Virginia Slave Conspiracies of 1800 and 1802 (1993). Rjensen (talk) 09:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Again, there is no citation in the article in this section, and these books here have no page number where Scheer make these claims. That's no 1.


 * No 2 someone wrote “He conducted an exhaustive investigation into the incident and saw to it the slaves involved received a fair trial”


 * Scheer says “Monroe thoroughly investigated the circumstances” of the 1799 revolt, which is true to an extent. But who makes the claim that these slaves were given “fair trials”? That’s the problem is many historians say the opposite.


 * Next problem “Monroe again took an unpopular position in supporting fair trials and attempting to explain and justify slave actions."


 * Exactly where do historians say claim the slaves involved in Gabriel’s Uprising were given “fair trials”. Says who? Where does Scheer say that? These were fair? That's not what I've read.


 * And when did Monroe ever “justify” a slave revolt? Who says this?


 * No 2 academic integrity. This is what the Wpedia article says:


 * Monroe's governorship is best known for the violent suppression of "Gabriel's slave conspiracy" in 1800, in which freedom-seeking slaves from Henrico and neighboring counties plotted to burn the capital, Richmond, kill its white slaveholders, and kidnap Monroe. The rebellion was quickly crushed, and over 30 blacks were executed in its aftermath.


 * Compare that to Scheer’s work:


 * James Monroe's governorship of Virginia (1799-1802) is best known for the violent suppression of "Gabriel's slave conspiracy" in 1800, in which freedom-seeking slaves from Henrico and neighboring counties plotted to burn the capital, Richmond, kill its white slaveholders, and kidnap Governor Monroe. The rebellion was quickly crushed, and over 30 blacks were executed in its aftermath.

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5001286103


 * I ask you, is this not blatant copyright violation? Does this meet Wpedia’s standards? So yes, the text does follow Scheer is some instances, namely where someone copied, but it deviates in other sentences widely.


 * Whoever made these claims needs to be say show where exactly (author, pg etc) these things come from, and not with vague titles. You didn’t address these questions, but someone has to. The copyright violation, without question must be deleted.Ebanony (talk) 10:02, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

In reading Wikipedia's page on possible Copyright Infringement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems), this paragraph seems to fit, so I followed the proceedure & placed the html code for it. Using the URL http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5001286103 one can see this article's 1st paragraph on "Slavery" copies the text verbatim from "GOVERNOR JAMES MONROE AND SOUTHAMPTON SLAVE RESISTANCE OF 1799 by ARTHUR SCHERR" an article posted on questia.com (same as bhis book). I'm asking others to look at this and see if this meets Wikipedia's policy (this is why I haven't deleted it), and determine this. I do not know who posted in on Wpedia (so I can't notify him/her on talk page). Today Rjensen added a citation to it, but it is to Scheer's book, but the text is still copied verbatim. Ebanony (talk) 11:58, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * the solution is to paraphrase the information, which I didRjensen (talk) 19:49, 13 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, Graeme Bartlett resolved the problem of the copyrighted text because he removed it from the article on 13 September 2010. Ebanony (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:58, 15 September 2010 (UTC).


 * Your words
 * "Monroe's governorship is best known for the violent suppression of Gabriel's slave conspiracy in 1800. There was no actual uprising, but slaves from Henrico and nearby areas plotted to burn the capital at Richmond, kill white slaveholders, and perhaps kidnap the governor."


 * The copyrighted text　you use I highlight here:
 * "James Monroe's governorship of Virginia(1799-1802) is best known for the violent suppression of "Gabriel's slave conspiracy" in 1800, in which freedom-seeking slaves from Henrico and neighboring counties plotted to burn the capital, Richmond, kill its white slaveholders, and kidnap Governor Monroe. The rebellion was quickly crushed, and over 30 blacks were executed in its aftermath.


 * Rjensen, your "paraphrase" doesn't match Chamber's definition. It's "a restatement of something using different words" You still copied some of the words verbatim, as I show them bold letters. This is not a quotation, so you can't copy directly from a source. This is from Scheer's article, not book like you claimed. I had to rewrite the section. The source is here for anyone to see http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5001286103 Please don't post more copyrighted work.Ebanony (talk) 09:58, 15 September 2010 (UTC)


 * In Slavery under the 1799 & 1800 revolts. I had to delete the references to "fair trials", as historians say these specific trials were not fair; that was also not quite what Egerton said, though his work does take a POV towards that. To claim a segregated court system governed by slave codes like that of the 1692 & 1705 was was some "fair" because of Monroe is inacurate. He didn't have the authority to overide the law, and made a point to follow it closely (he says so himself).


 * A thorough investigation? Hardly. Fair? Only if you call 30+ blacks were hanged without even a jury trial based on laws in slaves codes fair. James Sidbury in Ploughshares disagrees, and so do others. Yes, Monroe did prevent some others from being hanged, but historians say it wasn't for humanitarian reasons. These were mass executions, not a shinning example of goodness.Ebanony (talk) 10:13, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism Prptection needed?

 * Seems there've been 6 or 7 attempts just this month, almost all the edits for this time. How do other editors feel about increasing the level of protection?

2:nd is the talk page. I'd say this need to have auto-archiving, since many of the posts seem to be older ones. Any input? I'm not sure of the code to do it or I'd have done these already.Ebanony (talk) 10:12, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

removed section
I removed 2 sentences from the lead-- "His mother was a sexually active widow who, at James 5 years of age, consistently has men over to amuse her. She was aroused by different males, and this trait was said to have been passed down to James. While in the White house, James was said to have had many different women over behind the first lady's back."---given the nature of the subject matter and this is a biography article, I felt the need for citations. I was going to just throw a tag on the sentences, but after going through the article the sexually active mother and subsequent adultery in the white house is not mentioned. Since the lead is supposed to be summarizing what I'm going to read I expected more on this matter. If there are references for it by all means please put it back in, though if this is the only mention we're going to make about it then I recommend it be moved into the Bio section of the article. Or I could be wrong and it was just some slightly more clever than usual vandalism. But assuming good faith. tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 09:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Monroe and powdered wig
No picture of Monroe proves that he wore a powdered wig, however there are some Monroe´s pictures, depicting his head from the profile, which attest the fact that he wore his hairstyle according to the old fashion of the 18th century (the hair was worn long, brushed back from the forehead and tied back at the nape of the neck with a black ribbon in a queue or "pony-tail"): http://www.ashlawnhighland.org/se--weddings.htm  and  http://www.flickr.com/photos/afagen/2069754826/  and http://www.flickr.com/photos/purplepeanut/3923808135/ and http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XJCSXX8WL.jpg and http://www.travelpod.co.uk/travel-photo/karenallen/2/1282089542/1_ash-lawn-highland.jpg/tpod.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.127.65.18 (talk) 11:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * K the question here is about a powdered wig. No one is saying he did not use a queue.  These pics only prove a queue not wig.  Stop using this as a dump area for links please. tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 19:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Of course, this claim does not refute the statement that he wore a powdered wig. In fact, he actually did wear a powdered wig. But he was never portrayed with a wig.

Monroe did not wear a powdered wig. He powdered his hair. Big difference.

DNA
Just thought I would mention, just in case anyone was interested, that Y-DNA testing of a living relative of James Monroe has proved that the president was descended from the Chiefs of Clan Munro. Specifically chief Robert Munro, 14th Baron of Foulis. QuintusPetillius (talk) 14:02, 20 August 2011 (UTC) :>

Photography
So was Monroe the last President who was never photographed ? Eregli bob (talk) 10:38, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, he was the last president who was never photographed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonofhistory (talk • contribs) 18:40, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Panic of 1819
Wasn't there the Panic of 1819 during the Monroe administration? This needs to be discussed as a seperate section. How did Monroe respond? Cmguy777 (talk) 00:50, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Big Balls?
Why does the article start with he had big balls?! The author looks serious, so I wonder... Can anyone sort this out?Super48paul (talk) 16:23, 6 May 2013 (UTC) Sorry, can any reviewer sort this mess out? Seems to be protected now.... (PC).Super48paul (talk) 16:31, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Slavery expanded
I added a bit more on Monroe's "Oak Hill" plantation and other plantations. I added information on Monroe and his overseers treatment of slaves and on one specific runaway slave named Daniel. I added references. I believe the section needed to be expanded and I believe the edits are neutral without bias. Cmguy777 (talk) 20:09, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Cabinet Posts
The section on his time as a cabinet secretary under Madison is woefully underdeveloped. (2 Dec 2013) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.126.178 (talk) 20:49, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't get it
 In addition to the acquisition of Florida, the landmark Treaty of 1819 secured the border of the United States along the 42nd Parallel to the Pacific Ocean and represented America's first determined attempt at creating an "American global empire".

I don't get it. What does the treaty of 1819 have to do with creating a "global empire"?

CJK (talk) 18:33, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Reflist template
The Reflist template has been misplaced under the 'Notes' section! The 'References' section contains details of two books that should have come under the 'Bibliography' section. It is humourous that such an error has occurred in a such a long and quality article. The article being semi-protected prevents most users like me from correcting it. 120.59.36.40 (talk) 14:58, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing has been misplaced. The Reflist is used for specific citations, which sometimes are called notes (when a notelist is not used). The references list two general references. The Bibliography is an exhaustive list of sources, some of which may have not actually been used in writing of the article.  I can understand your confusion, as Wikipedia blends terms and methods from APA, MLA, and Chicago.  Please see WP:CITE.  In any case, this dis-congruity is no reason to edit the article. The article has been semi-protected because of repeated vandalism from school children.  Sadly, this prevents well-meaning IPs from contributing.  You can, of course, register for an account and then edit the page.  Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 19:06, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Request relabeling and removal of File:James Monroe (1758-1831).jpg from the article "James Monroe"

The image, erroneously described as "The earliest preserved portrait of James Monroe as Minister Plenipotentiary to France in 1794” is in fact the image of Mr. James Monroe’s cousin, the son of Judge Joseph Jones of Fredericksburg, maternal uncle to James Monroe. The issue has been repeatedly dressed by Dan Preston, founder and curator of The Papers of James Monroe at the University of Mary Washington, and the information is consigned in his "James Monroe: An Illustrated History” Pictorial Histories Publishing; First Edition edition (2008). ISBN-10: 1575101386. For corroboration of the facts Ms Heidi Stello, assistant to Mr. Preston could be contacted at The Papers os James Monroe: Heidi Stello, Editorial Assistant hcarlson@umw.edu  The Papers of James Monroe (540)654-5992 University of Mary Washington 1301 College Avenue, Fredericksburg, VA 22401

Wikimench100 (talk) 04:49, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Request correction of facts on "Post-presidency"

"When his presidency ended on March 4, 1825, James Monroe resided at Monroe Hill, what is now included in the grounds of the University of Virginia.”

James Monroe could not have resided at Monroe Hill when his presidency ended because the farm located in Monroe Hill was in fact sold in 1806. It was not Mr. Monroe who sold it to the University of Virginia because it was not his to sell, nor did the University of Virginia existed as such at that point. It was in fact The Central College, prior to the creation of the University of Virginia that purchase 43 acres from Mr. Perry at $12 per acre from the original 800 acres own by Mr. Monroe. At the time of his presidency, and upon retirement, Monroe Hill officially resided at Oak Hill.

Where it says "He had operated the family farm from 1788 to 1817, but sold it in the first year of his presidency to the new college” should also be reconsidered on the basis of the fact that a. Monroe Hill, not know then as Monroe Hill but rather as “The Farm near Charlottesville” was sold in 1806, and that as of 1799 Mr. Monroe, his wife and children are living in Highland Plantation, closer to Monticello, in the location known today as Ash Lawn Highland.

Both facts can be verified by contacting:

Sara Bon Harper Executive Director at Ash Lawn Highland University of William & Mary 2050 James Monroe Parkway Charlottesville, VA 22902 (434) 293-8000 | info@ashlawnhighland.org

Wikimench100 (talk) 04:59, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Footnotes and bibliography review underway
I am undertaking a comprehensive review and edit of the footnotes and bibliography using Harvard citation style where possible and to otherwise cleanup cites per Citing sources. The collaboration of editors is welcome. Hoppyh (talk) 01:32, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Detail about children
I am moving the following detail about the Monroe children as lacking adequate pertinence to the article. Their daughter, Hortense, was named in honor of her childhood friend, Hortense de Beauharnais, step-daughter of Napoleon. Eliza alienated most of Washington society for her refusal to call on wives of the diplomatic corps, as was the custom, and caused another social furor in closing her sister's wedding to all but family and friends. For all her apparent vanity, however, she demonstrated genuine compassion during the fever epidemic that swept Washington during her father's Presidency. She spent many sleepless nights selflessly caring for victims. Following the deaths of her husband and father, Eliza moved to Paris, France, where she died on January 27, 1840. Citation-->February 3, 1840, The Observer (London, England), page 1: "BIRTHS, MARRIAGES, AND DEATHS...DIED... [January] 27th, at her residence in the Champs Elysees, Paris, Mrs. Elizabeth K. M. Hay, relict of the late George Hay, Esq., of Virginia, and daughter of the late James Monroe, Esq., formerly President of the United States of America." Hoppyh (talk) 14:05, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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File:MONROE, James-President (BEP engraved portrait).jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:MONROE, James-President (BEP engraved portrait).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on April 28, 2018. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2018-04-28. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:41, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

The George Washington tell-all book
Monroe wrote a book in 1798 ripping General Washington "a new one" it was an important work, akin to several recent works on Trump and in fact the first of the genre. It's available on Amazon and everything.Arglebargle79 (talk) 00:07, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * scholars do not characterize it this way. It did not tell very much. It did not attack Washington personally. See Ammon pp 165-67. Rjensen (talk) 07:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

1824 election
Should the article say something about which of the four candidates outgoing President Monroe supported? Alekksandr (talk) 21:44, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Photography revisited
Rather than edit the existing entries on this subject, I thought I'd restart it.

"He is also the last president to have never been photographed.[151]"

The citation doesn't support this statement. In the case of William Henry Harrison the familiar portrait is said to have been a daguerreotype created circa 1850 by a studio which wasn't formed until after Harrison's death in 1841. Other citations I saw stated it was a daguerreotype of an oil painting. While if a painting, it appears to be a very good one, it also strikes me as a painting and not of the stark nature of such photos from the period. The citation ([151]) merely states that John Quincy Adams was the first President to have been photographed, which I presume is true. Ealtram (talk) 00:29, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

I should say that I only looked for a photographic portrait of Harrison. He could very well happen to be in a photograph for which he was not specifically the subject. He also could have been the subject of a photograph which has not survived. Ealtram (talk) 00:45, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Computer Integrated Manufacturing
— Assignment last updated by Brianda (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:28, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Louisiana Purchase
The article incorrectly states that Barbe-Marbois was French Foreign Minister at the time of the Louisiana Purchase. That is incorrect. Talleyrand was French Foreign Minister and he opposed the Louisiana Purchase, so Bonaparte conducted his negotiations through Barbe-Marbois, who held the position of director of the Public Treasury, which was not the same as being Finance Minister. 2601:700:4180:7900:E5F8:33D9:5BD0:4CB1 (talk) 13:56, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Updated Photograph of James Monroe Statue at Highland
I visited James Monroe's Highland home earlier this year and took an updated photograph of the statue, which has been cleaned up with trimmed vegetation. Jameskincaid (talk) 02:38, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Author correction
The citation to the Near Duel Between James Monroe and Alexander Hamilton should cite to Dr. Cassandra Good as the author, rather than Heidi Stello. Stello is listed on the blog as the publisher because she has the admin access to post, but Dr. Good is the author of the post. The content on the post corroborates this. Heidi Stello/UMW 173.72.186.3 (talk) 23:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)