Talk:James Stewart/Archive 3

Stewart was essentially Scottish American
Stewart was a Presbyterian (ie, origin Church of Scotland) of Scottish descent. His mother was a Jackson which, like Stewart, is a Scottish surname. Unlikely he had any significant English ancestors, and he certainly had NO Irish in his ancestry (otherwise he would be a catholic, wouldn't he?) (And one gets a bit sick of these ethnocentric Irish constantly making spurious claims on the ethnic origins of famous people around the world, based far too often on pure speculation and wishful thinking. Furthermore, they also have the audacity to falsely define protestant Ulster Scots as Irish - and Wikipedia should take measures to impede the continuation of this shameless practice which is far too common and does nothing to promote confidence in the authenticity of their biographical articles.) Stewart was a proud Scot in the US and was happily married to another Scot/American called McLean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.78.240.137 (talk) 17:54, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Jackson is an English surname, not Scottish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.175.13.142 (talk) 00:29, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Stewart was of Irish descent, not Scottish descent. (79.67.126.161 (talk) 14:40, 17 December 2015 (UTC))


 * There is absolutely no rationale for suggesting that anyone would NOT be Irish if they are not Roman Catholic. The Republic of Ireland has approximately 78% of its population declaring themselves as being Roman Catholic, and 5.6% as being various Protestant denominations. Northern Ireland has about 41% declaring Roman Catholic and 42% declaring various other Christian denominations. This means that, of the population of Ireland of what .. 6.6 million?.. only about 4.5 million declare themselves to be Roman Catholic. For other Irish Christians, the figure is around a million. That's a little under one in six of the population who are not Roman Catholic.

Further to that, 10% of people in the Republic of Ireland declared no religion at all, 2.6% gave no answer in the Census of 2016, and 3.7% were other non-Christian religions. In Northern Ireland,

About 87% of the population of the Republic of Ireland declared to be Irish nationals, with 13% of the population having other declared nationalities (though this is by no means cut and dried with regard to Irish ethnicity - some of those may have been born in Northern Ireland, for example). Of these emigrant populations, most appear to be Polish (who would be overwhelmingly Roman Catholic), then British (around 10% of the population of the UK is Roman Catholic) and other Eastern European countries which would have substantial Roman Catholic and Orthodox religions amongst them.

Around 90% of the population of Northern Ireland were Northern Irish born. Of the remaining 10%, the largest contingent were English, with about 60,000 English residents. Then there are the 30-40,000 people born in the Republic of Ireland, then the Polish and Scottish.

To jump to the conclusion that one cannot be Irish if one is not Roman Catholic is not only inaccurate and highly subjective, it is also extremely offensive.

I am reminded of what Graham Norton had said when this preposterous suggestion was put to him by a film star from the USA. The film star suggested that he was automatically Roman Catholic because he was Irish. Norton corrected him by telling him he was actually Protestant.

Furthermore, James Stewart has ancestry from Northern Ireland. His maternal great-grandparents were John McConnell Wilson and Ruth Goheen. John McConnell Wilson's parents were Robert Wilson and Sarah McConnell from Tyrone. That means he has roots from Northern Ireland, often labelled Ulster-Scot, Scots-(Scotch-)Irish or just Irish.

Stewart himself seems to have been more aware of his Scottish ancestry, probably magnified by the fact that he married another Scots-descended person.

The fact that Stewart had ancestors from Northern Ireland is not mentioned in the article as it currently stands. Perhaps it should be.

--90.253.59.118 (talk) 12:54, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

[Stewart's] Objection to Profanity?
On two separate occasions, I heard an anecdote about Stewart's later career -- namely, that he had accepted some of the 'corny,' 'poorly-written' Westerns because "They were the only scripts without indecency or dirty words in them." Typically this would be dismissed as 'trivia,' but I think it speaks to his character -- will try to hunt it down (possibly from an earlier edit of this very article). Sskoog (talk) 18:14, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Speaking of profane profundity... and Jimmy's poetry. One of the best -it was on Johnny Carson/the Tonight Show, too.. maybe theres a youtube video available- was the one entitled.. "The Top Step in the Hotel in Junin" by Jimmy Stewart. Had Carson, etc crying from laughter. 2602:304:CDAF:A3D0:8880:939B:D609:97C6 (talk) 01:06, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 2

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: article not moved Armbrust The Homunculus 14:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

James Stewart → Jimmy Stewart – I have never heard of this actor being referred to as James Stewart.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:01, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose – Yes, that was my initial reaction too. See Talk:James Stewart/Archive 2 for extensive past discussion of the issue. But then I looked at the article and found no fewer than five or six images with "James" in them, vs. none with "Jimmy". On that basis, I have to oppose. Wbm1058 (talk) 17:12, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Nothing has changed since the last move request. Binksternet (talk) 17:23, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I'm still not getting a significant amount to warrant a change, and thus I prefer the status quo. Looking at any Google search, there will be a mixture of both "James" and "Jimmy". As seen in the various free images currently on commons (such as here and here), he was frequently credited as "James". He is also referred to as "James" on IMDb, New York Times, |78233/James-Stewart/ TCM, on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, the TV special The American Film Institute Salute to James Stewart, Encyclopedia Brittanica and others. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences posted a video on their official You Tube Channel of "James" receiving an honorary Oscar. Therefore, I prefer to maintain the status quo and consensus that was achieved in the previous move request. Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:39, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose He was credited in every single film as "James Stewart". -- Loeba (talk) 19:42, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Exactly. This would be like moving John F. Kennedy to Jack Kennedy because of what his friends and family and many others called him informally.  Not necessary.  We have redirects from Jack Kennedy and Jimmy Stewart.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:49, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose. He is credited as "James Stewart" in the opening credits of every single film he ever appeared in. See here for previous discussion on the issue. Nothing has changed since then. Ejgreen77 (talk) 19:56, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose - per his biographers, sources, everything In ictu oculi (talk) 00:02, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This is a joke right? James Stewart is the name used on his film credits and is far more commonly used everywhere than the affectionate Jimmy. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:25, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Strategic Air Command career
According to Eric Schlosser, "Command and Control", Stewart became deputy director of operations at SAC around the late 1950s. This sounds like a surprisingly senior appointment for someone who wasn't a full-time military man and maybe the article should mention it? Barnabypage (talk) 07:33, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

On the subject of his military rank, the opening paragraph states that he rose to the rank of Brigadier-General, but he is shown as a Major-General in the side-panel listing his awards. Which is correct?46.7.85.68 (talk) 12:53, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Note on Stewart’s Final Rank: (Changed 4 October 2016) I have corrected this before I was a registered user and am doing so now that I am sense having found the issue resurfacing. Please know James M. Stewart, the actor and Air Force officer, was never a Major General (O-8.) This is a common misbelief/misunderstanding but one which Stewart himself addressed and explained in a documentary (It’s a Wonderful Life: The Jimmy Stewart Story) hosted by Johnny Carson which can be found on Youtube. Around 35 minutes into this 90+ minute feature Stewart explains he was on the campaign trail for then ex-governor (not yet president) Ronald Regan who mistakenly introduced him as a rally luncheon as “Major General James Stewart.” When Regan later found out Stewart was in fact a Brigadier General (O-7) and ask Stewart why he did not correct him Stewart sheepishly said something to the affect of “it sounded so good I hated to change it.” Therefore he was a Brigadier General upon retirement and remained so. It is incorrect then to say he was “promoted to Major General by President Regan” for several reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctordrew (talk • contribs) 21:19, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

The citation for James Stewart's final rank is a link to another Wikipedia post about the L.A. Times. Citations should be sources. This is the link for that article: http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/30/entertainment/ca-smith30 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:245:C100:F500:1872:8C13:B1A:3400 (talk) 15:47, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Starr Smith's book Jimmy Stewart: Bomber Pilot, cited in the bibliography, concentrating on Brig-Gen Stewart's air force career, written by a wartime comrade of Stewart's and with a foreword by Kelly Stewart Harcourt, makes clear in the list of promotions on p.273 that Stewart's last promotion was to Brigadier-General on July 23, 1959. In response to a previous query, note that on pp.197-200 Smith explains that, at the time of Stewart's nomination for flag rank by President Eisenhower in 1957, 'Stewart's reserve, or M[Mobilization]-Day, assignment was deputy director of operations for Strategic Air Command, a vital defense position.' He would, however, only do two weeks' active duty a year, besides any other spare time he cared to commit, and would actually 'understudy' the full-time officer in that role. (See p.6 of this Air Force document on the reserve program. https://www.arpc.afrc.af.mil/Portals/4/DRIO/RIO-History-of-the-IMA-Program.pdf?ver=2017-04-04-144539-657 ) Due to objections by Sen. Margaret Chase Smith (R-Maine, also a USAF Reserve officer), on the grounds that 'popularity should not be the yardstick by which we promote officers,' the promotion was denied at that time. Stewart was then appointed deputy director of the Secretary of the Air Force Office of Information, a PR role felt to be more suitable, and the Senate including Smith approved him as Brigadier-General in July 1959. The supposed promotion to major-general by President Reagan, though claimed in one or two sources, appears to be fictitious. Khamba Tendal (talk) 21:15, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

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Cary Grant's opinion
The lede should be a brief summary of Stewart's life and career. Cary Grant's opinion is not notable, as it is only one person's personal view. (79.67.126.161 (talk) 14:41, 17 December 2015 (UTC))
 * In my opinion, Cary Grant was a moderately notable figure in the film industry, and thus his statement has sufficient weight as that of an expert in the field, and not just the opinion of "one person." Collect (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I would hardly describe Cary Grant as "moderately notable", considering he was one of Hollywood's leading men for about twenty years. --90.253.59.118 (talk) 13:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Final Resting Place conflicts with "interred" in Death section
"resting place" on side panel says "Forest Lawn, Glendale, California" which I'm assuming was not his vacation home, but rather the "final" resting place where he was buried/interred. In the Death section, it states "Stewart is interred at Palapala Ho'omau Church Cemetery near the town of Hana, Hawaii"

No citation exists for either statement (in this wiki entry).

Pagelm (talk) 22:58, 4 May 2016 (UTC)


 * -- Fixed. Forest Lawn in Glendale is correct.  I added references, too.


 * Billmckern (talk) 02:06, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

James Stewart vs. Jimmy Stewart
He never went publicly by Jimmy Stewart. I think he should be called James Stewart minus the following sentence that says he was called Jimmy Stewart. Just because the press called him Jimmy Stewart doesn't mean he should be called that on his WP page. It's an encyclopedia. Richard Nixon was called "Tricky Dick" by the press, and other famous people have been called various things. I think it should list his full legal name, and that's it because he didn't use that name professionally. He might have used that nickname privately among friends, but that's not what should be used in an encyclopedia.NapoleonX (talk) 19:15, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Regarding the idea that "he never went publicly by Jimmy Stewart", I don't think that applies very well to when he starred in The Jimmy Stewart Show and when he wrote the book entitled Jimmy Stewart and His Poems. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:55, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Noting RfC on military careers
There is currently a discussion and an RfC on Mel Brooks's article about his so-called "military career," noted by an infobox module. Since his military service, similar to that of Don Rickles, was for a few years and before their actual careers began, inserting a massive module in the standard infobox, as in this article, seems both misleading and erroneous. For Stewart, his "military career" module takes up about 2/3 of the infobox, while the essence of his notability is for being an actor. --Light show (talk) 01:48, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure about that change. Stewart's military career was much more substantial and notable than Mel Brooks's. Stewart rose to colonel in active service, received two Distinguished Flying Crosses, was deputy commander of the 2nd Combat Bombardment Wing in Big Week, etc., and later became a brigadier general in the reserves. That's no joke. Yes, that's not what he's primarily known for, but it's OK for Wikipedia readers to learn things they don't already know when they see an infobox in an article. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree. I looked for a field that would allow a mention of his military service in the infobox but couldn't find one. But unlike the other actors who had "Military career" modules, Stewart's lead includes text that states his notable military career. The article also has a section about his service. However, his occupation in the infobox is for being an "actor," yet the military module was using up 2/3 of the infobox. --Light show (talk) 02:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Removing the information wholesale is inappropriate as well. If Stewart had been a B-movie actor, his military service would have made him notable in and of itself. I will agree that the infobox can be trimmed. I have inserted what I believe is an appropriate trimming. Remove the images and reducing the awards to his top two military awards were the easiest changes to make. To reinsert just make the appropriate syntax changes and copy/paste.EricSerge (talk) 12:18, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't think it was undue emphasis to include the previous (more detailed) version in the infobox. Stewart had a highly notable and distinguished military career – even if he hadn't been an actor at all, we would probably have an article about him on that basis alone. There is no reasonable comparison to Mel Brooks, who we would not know about at all if his notability depended on his military credentials. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2016 (UTC)


 * In balance with the full bio, giving more than 10-15% of the infobox to his military service would distort the the infobox in a number of ways. Naturally, there's no comparison to Mel Brooks, although they were both initially drafted. But over 90% of the article concerns his acting and non-military life. He made 92 films during his 60-year acting career. He spent about 6 in the active military, with about 20 in the reserve. He in fact didn't even like discussing his military service, as he thought of himself as an actor.


 * Devoting 2/3rd of his infobox to his military service would be misleading. His infobox size and detail for military service should not be the same size as Chuck Yeager's, for example, which it would be, even without all the illustrations. Even devoting over 1,700 words to his "Military service" section in the text seems over-weight compared to his acting sections. IMO, on first impression of the enlarged infobox, many readers would assume he was a career soldier who did some acting on the side, which is the opposite of his real career. --Light show (talk) 19:55, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
 * If we were talking about 2/3 of the article, I'd agree with you, but I don't think we need such close inspection of what percentage of the infobox is devoted to what. And the film-related content of the infobox could use some expansion as well. For example, we could add "awards = " and list some film awards. In fact, I just did that. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:15, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Units
This topic pretty clearly has strong national ties to the US, considering that Stewart was a US citizen and known for Hollywood performances. Therefor US customary units are primary, as specified by WP:UNITS and [[WP:STRONGNAT. I am correcting this. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 03:17, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

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Republican... or Democrat?
According to this article, Stewart was a Republican. However, the article also suggests that he was Democrat. He supported Democrat candidates towards the end of his life. Should he not be listed as a Democrat in the categories at the end of the article? John Wayne, for example, was a Presbyterian all his life, until he converted to Roman Catholicism on his death bed. He is listed as a Roman Catholic, but also as a former Presbyterian, if I recall the article correctly.

Should Stewart not be listed as a Democrat and former Republican? --90.253.59.118 (talk) 13:12, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you find any reliable sources that say one way or the other? The only source in the article is newsmeat.com, which only shows that he donated mostly to federal Republicans, with 2 exceptions over 17 years. I don't think that tells us enough. Station1 (talk) 18:22, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Struggle with PTSD
Other media make reference to Stewart's struggle with PTSD as a result of a horrendous military disaster: "Stewart felt responsible for the death of his men and especially one bloodbath where he lost 13 planes containing 130 men who he knew well. Stewart's anguish is laid bare for the first time in author Robert Matzen's Mission: Jimmy Stewart and the fight for Europe, published by Paladin Communications."

Should this information be included in this article? Santamoly (talk) 23:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Wiki isn't supposed to rely on the Daily Mail, and Matzen's book, the actual source, may be a little over-coloured. One can't say that Stewart suffered PTSD unless a reliable source says that he was treated for it or those close to him said he showed signs of it, which does not seem to be the case. The Gotha mission of 24 February 1944, in which the 445th Bomb Group lost 13 of 25 B-24s dispatched, including 7 out of 8 from Maj Stewart's own 703rd Squadron, was one that Stewart himself did not fly on, though no doubt he was appalled to get only one crew back. (It was just the wind: because of an unexpected wind, the bombers reached the fighter-rendezvous point 11 minutes early and proceeded without escort, which was fatal.) It's true that, as Matzen claims, Stewart's film performances were darker and less light-hearted after the war, but one would need a well-grounded citation to link that to his war service. His reluctance to talk about the war, at least to those who weren't there, was quite normal for anyone who had seen action and does not really mean that he was 'flak happy' or unbalanced as Matzen and the Mail seem to suggest. Khamba Tendal (talk) 00:03, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Military service
Does anybody else think that the military service section of this article is much too long? It's about 2,000 words and the page itself is only 8,000 which means that the military service section alone makes up 25% of the article. This is unnecessary. His military service is, of course, important to include in this article but should not be given such undue emphasis. He is most notable because of his acting career, not his military service.

Having worked on this article for a few weeks, it's become clear that this article is more of a hodgepodge of information from random editors rather than a strong article with consistent and coherent organization or prose. I am going to continue trying to improve this vital article and would appreciate any help trimming the military service section, adding citations, and combing through the article for repetitive elements while improving organization and prose quality. Skyes(BYU) (talk) 21:11, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

that's right
...military section can be shortened. Indeed, many words about his military service, yes, but the section lacks substantial information, anyway: how many missions he flew and with which outfit exactly ? --2001:A61:2B66:7E01:9CBB:1839:2698:574 (talk) 09:04, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

date of enlistment
The third paragraph says he enlisted "soon after the United States entered the Second World War in 1941" -- the U.S. entered the war in December 1941 -- but elsewhere the article says he enlisted in February 1941 and reported in March 1941. So one of these must be wrong.Iglew (talk) 12:30, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Childhood photo
I think a photo of him as a child would improve the article, but I have had a difficult time finding one without copyright. Please upload one if you can find one! Skyes(BYU) (talk) 17:24, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Cause of death?
The NYT reported that the AP reported the cause of death was pulmonary embolism. Do we know for sure it was a heart attack and not a pulmonary embolism, presumably that progressed from a deep vein thrombosis (DVT)? (I'm currently revamping the DVT article, and I'd like to make sure I get things right.) Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 20:12, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * According to two biographies published after his death, it was a heart attack caused by a pulmonary embolism. "at the age of eighty-nine...an embolism lodged in his lungs. The clot caused a heart attack that killed him instantly" (Eliot 2006, p. 409). and "James Maitland Stewart died in his home of a heart attack brought on by an embolism on July 2, 1997" (Eyman 2017, p. 311). Typically, I find print biographies are generally more reliable for life details. His biographies, as I recall, don't mention DVT, but they obviously aren't meant to be medically technical. Hope that helps a little! Skyes(BYU) (talk) 20:42, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It helps! Thank you very much Skyes(BYU). Biosthmors (talk) 02:27, 20 February 2020 (UTC)