Talk:James Townsend (New Zealand settler)

Alicia Burges
It looks like the spelling Burges, one "s", is correct. That is because some grandchildren have Burges as middle name.

Alicia's father therefore may have been Captain Henry Burges of the Earl of Chesterfield (1781 EIC ship). Charles Matthews (talk) 11:10, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

That then turns up the page of research, giving reason to believe that Townsend's date of birth is 1788. There is plenty more to check out on the WikiTree page. Charles Matthews (talk) 11:15, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Wine merchant
The WikiTree page states that James Townsend was a wine merchant.

If so, this London Gazette page from 1847 may be him. It mentions London addresses in Albany Street, Lime Street, and Gloucester Street, Park Street, Camden Town. In the article we have Townsend's address in Evershall Street, Mornington Crescent: I think Evershall Street is present-day Eversholt Street, but in any case Mornington Crescent is in the Borough of Camden.

The Townsend in the Gazette is "James Townsend the elder", and our James Townsend did have a son James (1815–1894), an amateur astronomer. The marriage date of 1820 in the article may well be wrong, as WikiTree says 1814.

Townsend was in the Gazette because he was a debtor. The addresses given are presumably for his business, which was going from bad to worse and downmarket. The Mornington Crescent address may have been the home address. In any case the proposed identification looks consistent with what we know so far. Charles Matthews (talk) 14:53, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

The debtor was actually in prison:. We can assume not permanently. In any case this would have been something to keep quiet about. Charles Matthews (talk) 14:58, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

An actual reference is via James FitzGerald (New Zealand politician), who arrived on the Charlotte Jane in 1850; and his "Night Watch Song of the Charlotte Jane" supposedly written on the voyage.


 * "The Night Watch Song of the Charlotte Jane" is a conventional type of ballad which crystallizes the way in which mid- Victorian musical culture transplanted itself to New Zealand. The words were by a brilliant young Irishman, James Edward Fitzgerald, and the music by a former English wine merchant, James Townsend, who was said to have resembled the Vicar of Wakefield. The words presumably were written on or shortly after the long voyage to Lyttelton, the music being a later, somewhat plagiarized addition." The Oxford History of New Zealand Music, p. 39.

I suspect the music might be by James Townsend the younger. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:36, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

How are you in these strange days? If you have time to look into census returns etc. for James Townsend, that would be great. Addresses in the north London area (Somers Town as it used to be called, Camden Town) could be relevant. The date of birth of the eldest son James is perhaps suspect in the NZ sources.

There is perhaps some "internal evidence" in the NZ references to The Vicar of Wakefield as a comparison for Townsend: a character who made a dramatic financial comeback. But that's tenuous enough. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:49, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

There is a faimly tree, says b. 12. June 1788, London, son of Edward Townsend (1756-1814) and Frances Layton (1754-1829), brother of Revd Charles Townsend (1789-1870)
 * m. Alicia Burges, 20 Sep 1814. St Andrew Undershaft London; Charles Townsend minister, Edward Townsend as witness
 * James (1816-1894) Mdx
 * Edward (1817-1892) Streatham
 * Frances (1820-1889) Sry
 * Henry (1825-1913) Wandsworth
 * Mary (1826-1869)
 * Charles (1826-1863)
 * Alicia (1827-1909) Wandsworth
 * William (1829-1913) Marylebone
 * Oriscilla Alicee (1831-1860)
 * Robert (1832-1886)
 * Marcia (1835-1915) London
 * Margaret (1837-1912) London (sourced, occupation give as gent, living Albany Street)

census
Name: 	James Townsend Age: 	50 Gender: 	Male Where born: 	Middlesex, England Civil Parish: 	St Pancras Hundred: 	Ossulstone (Holborn Division) County/Island: 	Middlesex Country: 	England Street address: Occupation: View image Registration district: 	St Pancras Sub-registration district: 	Regents Park Neighbors: Piece: 	684 Book: 	8 Folio: 	18 Page Number: 	33 Household Members: Name 	Age James Townsend 	50, occupation merchant Alicia Townsend 	40 James Townsend 	25 Government Cl. Edward Townsend 	24 do Charles Townsend 	15  do Mary Townsend 	15 Alicia Townsend 	13 William Townsend 	12 Percilla Townsend 	10 Marcia Townsend 	1 Margaret Townsend 	4 Mary Gribble 	20
 * 1841 England; Middlesex > St Pancras > Regents Park > District 9 > York St.

That sufficient? There some jury lists and provincial rolls. She him as a farmer in Rangiora/Mandeville. Would have been a little different from London. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:40, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


 * After some consideration, I have made use of the information, not asserting identification further than seems warranted for the debtor. Thanks for the research. Charles Matthews (talk) 11:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

369. James TOWNSEND, d. 12 Aug 1866 a 78. Also his wife, Alicia, d 5 Feb 1872 a 75.
 * Lyttlelton Anglican Cemetery, p. 27. Area C

Edward Townsend
I had thought this with a London baptism from 1751 of Edward Townsend could be the father; son of Edward Townsend, a cooper, and Priscilla. In which case with a 1747 marriage record of Edward Townsend and Priscilla Sleyart could be the grandparents of James. But if the family tree birth date of 1756 is correct, then that doesn't work.

The brother Charles Townsend (1789–1870), who was my route into this whole business, is mentioned in William Stewart Rose. He was a Cambridge graduate: see entry but it only gives "Middlesex" for background. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC) Charles Matthews (talk) 09:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Obituary
That's the shortest obituary for a prominent early settler that I've ever seen (died 12 August 1866). Bizarre. No mention in The Press, which is strange.  Schwede 66  18:09, 26 March 2020 (UTC)