Talk:Jan Janszoon

Name
So his name was changed from Murat Rais to Reis Mourad in sep 2020 -- and I have only ever seen him referred to as the former. I don't want to start an edit war, but can folks weigh in? Cglenn3932 (talk) 20:50, 15 April 2021 (UTC)cglenn3932

Toponymic =\= upper class
"His surname was toponymic, indicating his family was from the upper class.[2]"

This is spurious.

A toponymic surname may sometimes indeed indicate membership of an upper class, landed gentry. But it's also quite common among, well..., commoners, very often applied to make a distinction between people sharing what are very common names (like "Jan" and "Janszoon").

"Jan" was - and is - indeed a very common name in the Netherlands. It was not uncommon to even have multiple sibblings of the same family to be called "Jan", creating the need for specifiers often based on age, physical attributes, or indeed place of origin.

"van Haarlem", if anything, is an indication that Jan Janszoon was not living in Haarlem when he acquired this epithet, since it would make no sense to use a toponym to distinguish one person called Jan, son of another person called Jan, from other people going by the name Jan, quite possibly also sons of yet other persons called Jan, when all these "Jan"s live in the place indicated by the toponymic epithet.

So unless there is other evidence supporting the "upper class origin" assertion, it has to be removed entirely.

The reference provided is not specific, points towards a book that provides no support for the claim at all.

For those reasons, the claim is removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.157.96.160 (talk) 12:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Turkey project?
Aloha,

I'm curious, why is he linked to the Turkey project? What is his connection to Turkey? Wouldn't a Morocco project be the one to connect him to? (assuming a Morocco one exists)

I have been trying to follow this guy for some time, and I must warn that some of the assertions claimed here can have alternative interpritations, I have just begun to list some of them at my (admittiedly disorganized) page on him (http://members.fortunecity.com/gecko_g/gen/vanhaarlem.html)

please pardon my typo's, but I am pressed for time at the moment, Thank you. Gecko G 20:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm adding him to Morocco's wikiproject as well as adding Morocco to the 'reqphotoin' part, but I'm going to leave the Turkey wikiproject and such in there in case whomever originially placed it there did have a good reason, though at this time I still do not see why. I just hope I correctly added him, I'm new to editing wikipedia.

--Gecko G 06:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I can think of two reasons why it has been put in the Turkey wikiproject. One reason is that Turkey was once the head of the greater Ottoman Empire which reached well over the Barbary coast. The abductes from The Turkish abductions were for an example sold to slavery in Algiers. Another reason could be that Janzoon conducted what is called in Iceland the Turkish abductions. During this time the word Turk in Europe could refer to anyone living within the Ottoman Empire. So name is a bit misleading today. But the first reason more than justifies having this article within Wikiproject Turkey.

--Jóhann Heiðar Árnason (talk) 02:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Aloha,
 * Thank you for your input. I had forgotten about my original questioning of this as I now further suppose that in his brief time operating out of Algiers that would of been under the Ottoman Empire and thus be sufficient to qualify this page for part of the Turkey project.
 * Gecko G (talk) 00:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Turkey Captain
Barbarossa, Oruj and Hadressin Pasa were turkish captains, most of them had a rank like "reis" that is mean a Captain.... He is converted to the islam and hold a rank "reis"bij Ottomans. In many Turkish history books you can find a information about him... Ok maybe he went to sale... but.... In the early modern age, to have or a hold rank in the ottoman empire was one of the best carier jobs..... thanks Emirdagli (talk) 15:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Simon de Danser
The article states that its subject converted to Islam in 1618 and afterward served under Simon de Danser. According to Wikipedia, this Simon died about 1611. How do we reconcile the seeming contradiction? Firstorm (talk) 17:51, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Reykjavik
Reykjavik was founded in 1786, so there is some problem here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamin Trovato (talk • contribs) 05:29, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Baltimore
The article claims that "the women did not complain". The implication of that is at variance with the book "The Stolen Village" - ClemMcGann (talk) 00:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

needs expert attention
Good afternoon everyone,

I've put up an expert flag on this because it seems to have multiple issues, but not minor or easily-solved ones.

The list of sources in the citations seems very short, and in some places rather reliant on popular and semi-fictitious material. (I mean, come on -- Sex and the City? With no backup? Just a little bit lightweight for a historical piece...)

This subject was active during a lively and important period in Dutch and Mediterranean history. The article looks good superficially, but it needs and IMHO deserves more 'source meat'. If I knew any historians of the Dutch Golden Age, I'd propose it to them.

Just a personal 2p

Pufferfyshe (talk) 13:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, I'll have a look at the Baltimore paragraph, but I'm not tackling the rest - ClemMcGann (talk) 16:15, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

This article is irresponsibly written. Several statements are exaggerations or distortions of their sources. Hurmata (talk) 04:32, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

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Portrait?
A number of places seem to mention this as a portrait - is there any genuine connection?--Pharos (talk) 02:33, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I have now raised this question at c:File talk:Mola Pirata.jpg.--Pharos (talk) 00:23, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

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Dates for Soutgen Cave
There seems to be an internal inconsistency. The "early life" section says she died around 1600. But a later section says that, in 1622, she and their children begged him to return to Holland. They can not both be true. Jpg1954 (talk) 14:07, 7 May 2020 (UTC)