Talk:Jane Wyman/Archive 1

Discussion
I think I saw her in the part of the Academy Awards this year where they feature everyone who died in the last year. Is she still indeed living?Steven 04:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Where did she get the name "Wyman" from? Gamaliel 20:31, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Not sure.

Other info. to be added: is it generally accepted that her marriage to Reagan ended because she was carrying on with Lew Ayres. Ellsworth

What's the source for the name of her third child (Christine Reagan)? --Joeljkp 21:35, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Found it myself: Genealogy.com --Joeljkp 21:57, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

POV or Vandalism
Whoever wrote this version has some axe to grind with Ms. Wyman and there are a number of things in this article that probably count as Vandalism. Whatever it is, it needs to be cleaned up or reverted but I think I know enough about her to tell what information belongs and what does not. -The_Blue_Moose


 * I'm all for being nice to editors, but a lot of this really does earn a "who gives a sh-t?" It's written with Ronald Reagan in mind, not JANE WYMAN (who the article is about, for Christ's sake), and it all reads like a People magazine article. And what the hell is up with a Playboy picture of Patti Davis in the JANE WYMAN article? Mike H (Talking is hot) 04:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Reverted to a pre-POV version. That sh-t should go in BJAODN. Mike H (Talking is hot) 04:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Falcon Crest
The Falcon Crest section could really be trimmed down, considering most (if not all) of that information is already in the Falcon Crest article. Falcon Crest was a highlight of her career, yes, but reading this article makes it sound as if it WAS her career, which it most certainly was not. Mike H (Talking is hot) 08:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

This section needs major clean-up. There is a long discussion on her relationships with Susan Sullivan and Lorenzo Lamas that are pure speculation - has whoever wrote this actually spoken to the people involved and confirmed they all 'prayed together' for an improvement in Wyman's health? I seriously doubt it. None of it can be verified and very little of it is relevant. Smurfmeister 09:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Who wrote all that dribble about Lamas and Sullivan. It reads like a child wrote it and I question its importance. A simple statement such as "Sullivan found a mentor in Wyman during the run of FalconCrest and the two remianed close throughout the remainder of Wymans life" As for the Lamas part it should be dropped —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chazran (talk • contribs) 20:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed the horrid Sullivan/Lamas stuff, which sadly was pasted back [5 kilobytes worth], after being removed earlier. It's unfortunate that some think dribble such as that makes for a good encyclopedia. It doesn't. Rcej 00:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Rcej: "rhetoric" is "the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing", not an insult term. - Walloon 01:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Walloon: Actually, the word rhetoric has an alternate definiton as well. I used it properly... click on it and you can check with wiktionary. - Rcej 07:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Jane Wyman website
There is a Jane Wyman website; http:www.//meredy.com/jane wyman/ The lady doing this website is very good friends and e-mail sent to Jane Wyman on the death of Maureen Reagan was sent to this website and then to Miss Wyman.I was going to add it as an external link but thought you would get upset. Richard-


 * Go ahead and add it. If other editors don't think it should be in the article, the worst that can happen is that the link can be taken down. Just go ahead and put it in. Mike H (Talking is hot) 21:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I got the Jane Wyman website linked up.You will find it interesting.Let me know what you think.Thanks-Richard-

And I have added Tough Love, reminisces by Michael Reagan about his mother. Asteriks 09:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Her true birthdate?
After doing a bit of research it looks very much like the January 4 1914 birthdate often attributed to Miss Wyman is fictitious. There are several sources which give her birth date as January 5 1917: the ancestry website lists her family tree and gives this as her DoB, whilst also giving the date of her parents marriage as May 17 1916 (also covered at ). This is confirmed in Anne Edwards' book "Early Reagan" and in Bob Colacello's 2004 book "Ronnie and Nancy", which apparently mentions something about Jane adding three years to her age. I've also heard from another internet user who has located her on the 1920 census which gives her age as 3 years. I believe this information wont be properly acknowledged until after Miss Wyman's passing. Does anyone know any more about this? Crisso 15:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * These sources -, - also support 1917 as her birth year (though they stick with 4th January). The most telling of the sources is the 1920 census, though I have not seen it myself but it must be available online somewhere. This supports the stoy of Jane adding three years to her age because of an early marriage, thus explaining where 1914 comes from. Crisso 15:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

If January 5, 1917 is in fact Jane's true date of birth, why hasn't the article yet been changed? Are people waiting for Ms. Wyman's death to prove the accuracy of the date? Hotwine8 22:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I guess I should have been a bit more objective in presenting the evidence. It certainly looks from what I've seen/heard that it's her true birth date (well, the year at least). I don't think this evidence is good enough as far as Wikipedia is concerned. If the actual census results can be found then I think then we might be able to change the date: the 1910 census is the one source for Joan Crawford's birth date being listed on WP as 1905. Crisso 17:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * FYI According to American genealogist William Addams Reitwiesner (www.wargs.com), Wyman's birthdate is truly 4 January 1917, which he sourced through census and birth records. He also provides what he calls a "plausible" reason she adopted the name Wyman. He also apparently has found no evidence to indicate that Wyman married anybody named Wyman or Weymann. Also through other research in contemporary newspapers, I determined that her father was not mayor of Saint Joseph -- her foster father, Richard Fulks, was. And her mother's first name was spelled GLADDYS, with two ds. Reitwiesner further has established that her parents were married in May 1916. 204.126.251.245 17:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no record of a Mr. Wyman Jjmillerhistorian 20:50, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I found two sites and  which confirms, yet most say a first marriage to a Ernest Eugene Wyman was a rumor.  There is no proof she married at the age of 16 or 19.  The second site shows a birth year of 1914. Jjmillerhistorian 22:01, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Like Wikipedia, the IMDB is a work in progress site and takes it's info from the general internet public. Therefore it is only as reliable as the sources it uses and should not be regarded as a reliable source in it's own right. Crisso 16:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just looked up in "The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents" (the date has been torn out, but it goes up to George H. W. Bush) and it shows she was born in 1914. Of course, it still isn't concrete proof if she actually did lie about her age whether she married some alleged Mr. Wyman or not.  She could have lied about her age to for acting reasons.  Nancy Reagan also had two birth years, 1921 and 1923, 1923 being her official year of birth.  Here is another site showing 1914  for Jane Wyman. In fact I'm finding more sites showing 1914 just type "Jane Wyman january 4" in a search engine.  This site  which I stole from above, shows her parents were either 19 and 18, or 22 and 21 when she was born.  I think genealogy pages will be more accurate. Jjmillerhistorian 19:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

In the book "Early Reagan" by Anne Edwards (p. 188-190), there is proof that Miss Wyman's birthday is January 5/1917. See this link Hotwine8 20:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You may be right on an earlier post, we might have to wait until she dies to get the real birthdate. Of course, the way the media is we will probably hear the two different dates. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jjmillerhistorian (talk • contribs) 23:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC).


 * I think that answer is to obviously quote the birthdate that has supporting evidence - and this has already been done. However, a brief comment saying that there are several conflicting sources re: the birthdate would also be a good addition. NickBurns 17:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

A release on her official site states that January 5, 1917, is her birthdate as listed on her birth certificate. In addition, the reasons for her using the older date were given and are consistent with previously cited sources. Spicy 18:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I found her family on the 1920 Census living in Philadelphia, and she is listed as being born in 1917. However, on the 1930 Census for Los Angeles, she is listed as being born in 1912 which is the error of the enumerator. Stutzey (talk) 13:42, 4 April 2010 (UTC)stutzey

Can't have it both ways
If we have 1914 in the infobox, as we do at the moment, apparently based on a recently discovered birth certificate, we have to fix "Early Life", which goes into detail about why 1914 is wrong. --  Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   18:59, 3 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I keep reverting these edits as this user has presented no evidence whatsoever. I've checked Wyman's official site and there's nothing about this and a google search has resulted in nothing. Crisso (talk) 19:13, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Early Life needs cleanup
The early life and carrer section is very confusing. First it says her father died, then it says "after her father disappeared, leaving Sarah Jane and her birth mother in desperate straits." Which is it? This whole section needs to be more clearly written. Magdela 16:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Names
As with the evidence regarding Miss Wyman's birthdate, there is some odd confusion here regarding her names. The text twice shows her birth name as "Sarah Jane Mayfield"; the info-box shows "Sarah Jane Fulks"; then "[s]he assumed the name Sarah Jane Fulks in honor of her neighbors"; then she was calling herself "Jane Durrell"; finally she "legally" changed her name from Durrell. First, which was actually her birth name? Second, is it known were Durrell came from? Third, did she make it a legal name? Fourth, if not, what was her name legally before it was Jane Wyman ~ or was Wyman also just an assumed name? I certainly don't have answers, but needed to ask. Cheers, Lindsay 08:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I was just coming here to raise many of the same issues that, after a month, have still not been resolved. The infobox now says that she was born "Mayfield", but the first sentence of the article says "Fulks".  It still goes on to say that her name was LEGALLY changed from "Durrell" to "Wyman".  How many names does this chick have?  69.253.193.234 05:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Indult
Wyman never remarried, and after her conversion to Roman Catholicism, both she and her best friend Loretta Young obtained special indults from their bishop to receive communion despite being divorced.
 * I inserted the "despite being divorced" text, but on reflection that's probably not true. My understanding is the Roman Catholic church does not recognise divorce - not even one contracted in a non-Catholic church - so, as far as they're concerned she remained married to her first husband Myron Futterman until his death in 1965.  Then she was free to marry again legitimately in the church's eyes, but by then she'd married and divorced Reagan (once) and Karger (twice).  What the indult was probably about was that, in the church's eyes, she'd become a bigamist (or, indeed, a trigamist) by marrying again while her husband, Futterman, was still alive; and by having had adultery with 2 men.  On the other hand, what prevented her from doing whatever the church demanded in terms of penance and receiving remission of these "sins", and thus being able to receive Communion without the need for an indult?  Are there any religious experts out there who can comment on this?  --  JackofOz 03:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is not true that "the Roman Catholic church does not recognise divorce"; in fact, a civil divorce is required before a church annulment of a marriage will be granted. It is not the divorce that is forbidden; it is the remarriage when the previous marriage was recognized by the church. The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize a marriage (and a subsequent divorce) conducted outside the Catholic Church. Thus, in the church's eyes, she was never married to Futterman or Reagan. I don't know if her marriages to Karger were in the Catholic Church. - Walloon 01:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

her death
is it just me, or does the opening sentence of the death paragraph read like she died because she had arthritis (and diabetes)?

lmao, it's not a killer! well as far as i know...

diabetes, yes maybe, but definitely not arthritis.

i think it needs to be reworded, no? 77.101.18.129 19:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

First marriage
At present, it seems that there are two alternate explanations of where Jane Wyman got the name "Wyman" from: one, that she married Ernest Eugene Wyman in 1933; the other, that Weyman or Wyman was the surname of her foster siblings. May I suggest a synthesis between the two theories: Ernest Wyman may have been a relative of her foster siblings. More research is needed, starting with what information about Ernest Wyman appears on the 1933 California marriage certificate. — Walloon 04:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The source("Dutch: A Memoir of Ronald Reagan") for Jane Wyman's first marriage to an Ernest Eugene Wyman in 1933 is a partially fictional biography of Ronald Regan, unless it can be verified from another source it should be removed. Gfunkj (talk) 20:45, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Picture removal without consensus
According to WP:IFD, image removal of this type follows discussion then consensus. I assume administrators are exempt from protocol on the fly, because Nv8200p deleted the file of the photo from Maureen's funeral in lieu of WP:IFD... yet he didn't seem to be interested in any discussion whatever. But, I guess that's that. sigh-- Rcej 04:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Indult from bishop
I removed the following bit:

Wyman never remarried, and after her conversion to Roman Catholicism, both she and her best friend Loretta Young obtained special indults from their bishop to receive Holy Communion.

Please back it up with a credible sources, since this anecdote seems to be highly unlikely. Jane Wyman had no need for any such "indult" to receive Holy Communion. Divorcees are allowed to receive the sacraments as long as they are not living in a partnership not accepted by the church (be it a remarriage or not). And just for the record: A bishop has no faculty to grant an exception from the rule that remarried divorcees (living together with their new spouse) cannot receive Holy Communion. Gugganij (talk) 12:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Manning Jefferies Mayfield birthyear
On 15 May 2013 and IP made several changes, including changing the birth year of Manning Jefferies Mayfield from 1895 to 1888. No RS was included.

My brief search did not identify an RS for either date. However, the photo of the [Manning Jefferies Mayfield tombstone] clearly supports 1895. It is my impression that a tombstone doesn't qualify as an RS, it is a bit of OR, but absent an RS for 1888, I think 1895 makes more sense (or someone can argue for unknown.) If anyone has better information, please post it, however, I am planning to change 1888 back to 1895.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  15:50, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Just A Reminder: Jane Wyman and Jane Wyatt -- Two distinctly different Actresses
Although their last names look and sound somewhat alike, Jane Wyman and Jane Wyatt are two distinctly different actresses. Any changes and updates made to their respective Wikipedia pages should first be carefully researched to make sure that the submitted info is indeed related to the actress in question.

Thanx-A-Lot Fgf2007 (talk) 15:22, 12 July 2016 (UTC)