Talk:Japan/Archive 20

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160131154408/http://stats.oecd.org/ to http://stats.oecd.org/%23
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131214104438/http://www.kantei.go.jp/foreign/constitution_and_government_of_japan/constitution_e.html to http://www.kantei.go.jp/foreign/constitution_and_government_of_japan/constitution_e.html

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Please edit:
"Despite their historical tensions, in December 2015, South Korea agreed to settle the comfort women dispute with Japan by issuing a formal apology, taking responsibility for the issue and paying money to the surviving comfort women."

should read:

"Despite their historical tensions, in December 2015, Japan agreed to settle the comfort women dispute with South Korea by issuing a formal apology, taking responsibility for the issue and paying money to the surviving comfort women." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.0.7.210 (talk) 12:59, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Done Jameel the Saluki (talk) 13:17, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Can anyone make sure if this is a widespread problem or if it is just me.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2k6WYesl1VXZm1aR2pjdWYwWDg/view?usp=sharing There is this huge image blocking the article that prevents anyone from clicking the links in this article. Samurobai3000 (talk) 03:51, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Problem fixed. Somehow caused by the last edit. I will talk to editor responsible.Jameel the Saluki (talk) 04:07, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Problem now completely resolved. Related to Template vandalism.Jameel the Saluki (talk) 06:44, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Too many photos??
Hi All,

I'd like to highlight the increasing number of photos being used in this article - I counted 61 photos excluding infoboxes at the time of writing this. I would like to propose a drastic reduction in number of images being used to roughly 30, as the images are often over-illustrating points being raised. --User:WoodElf 11:27, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I note that the article is still rated as a featured article. I don't know when that occurred, but if there haven't been significant changes since large scale deletion of photos might not be appropriate. My own opinion is that the images look fine. Jameel the Saluki (talk) 12:18, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Reasons for disliking particular photo should be given, not the mere number.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.147.175.160 (talk) 16:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

British English or American English?
The top of the talk page states that this article uses American English, but the sixth line of the text says "Use British English|date=April 2015". The article itself uses British English too, with words like "recognised" in the sidebar.

Which is it? Is this article supposed to use American English, like the talk page says, or British English, like the article itself says? Please clarify.

Jade Phoenix Pence (talk) 22:26, 25 August 2017 (UTC)Jade Phoenix Pence


 * It should use whichever version the article was first written in. If it's not easy to determine that I'd say use the predominate version currently and update the rest of the article to match. Something tells me that the original version was actually American English. Canterbury Tail   talk  11:31, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You should use American English. This has been a long standing feature on the Talk page (since at least 2012) and reviewed by different editors. The reference to British English was introduced by User talk:Kkm010 in April 2015. This editor is not currently active and appears to have a history of unhelpful edits. I will remove the British English reference. Jameel the Saluki (talk) 13:33, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170202040038/http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2270.html to http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2270.html
 * Added tag to http://richard-hooker.com/sites/worldcultures/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041205020625/http://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/bcri-fr/h13-f1.html to http://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/BCRI-fr/h13-f1.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20020418125404/http://www.pressnet.or.jp/data/0202.htm to http://www.pressnet.or.jp/data/0202.htm
 * Added tag to http://www.nhk.or.jp/bunken/book-en/b41011e.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20020418105725/http://www.pressnet.or.jp/data/0101.htm to http://www.pressnet.or.jp/data/0101.htm

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TFA rerun
Any objections to throwing this article into the pile of potential TFA reruns for this year and next? Any cleanup needed? If it helps, here's a list of dead or dubious links. - Dank (push to talk) 23:24, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Whoa ... I wasn't expecting 18 bad links, looks like this may need some work before we rerun it. - Dank (push to talk) 03:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added tag to http://www.wbcsd.org/plugins/DocSearch/details.asp?txtDocTitle=kyoto%20protocol%20japan&txtDocText=kyoto%20protocol%20japan&DocTypeId=-1&ObjectId=MzQ4ODc&URLBack=result.asp%3FtxtDocTitle%3Dkyoto+protocol+japan%26txtDocText%3Dkyoto+protocol+japan%26DocTypeId%3D-1%26SortOrder%3D%26CurPage%3D1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110217084451/http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/milex/resultoutput/milex_15 to http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/milex/resultoutput/milex_15
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131121103417/http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/social_issues/jan-june12/9billion_06-12.html to https://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/social_issues/jan-june12/9billion_06-12.html
 * Added tag to http://www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/bare-statistics-mask-human-cost-of-japan%E2%80%99s-high-suicide-rate
 * Added tag to http://www.rep.routledge.com/article/

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police
I'd like to add a bit about police. Benjamin (talk) 19:56, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

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Orphaned articles
orphaned articles that may be linked through japan main page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.209.205.170 (talk • contribs)
 * List of animals in Japan
 * List of public universities in Japan

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2017
Change "Japan" in the infobox to "State of Japan" as that is the most faithful translation of the name Nippon-koku. 152.93.202.135 (talk) 09:52, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. The "State of Japan" translation of Nippon-koku is in the lead of the article. I'm not inclined to change the infobox title without consensus. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 14:35, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Duplication of content about Shinto
The content in religion section about Shinto (shrines, membership and other stats) seems to be duplicated. I can trim it and rephrase it. Any suggestions?--BukitBintang8888 (talk) 13:47, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

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Etymology in lead
The etymology in lead was way too detailed. I have edited it to the original version at the time of the FA review. This is better than this one which is way too detailed. Personally I wouldn't mention the etymology in the lead at all, but I am open to views of others.--BukitBintang8888 (talk) 14:08, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with the shortening of it, however I do think it needs to me mentioned in the lead. Most countries etymology is not that important, however for Japan it's part of a very well known aspect of its name so I would make an exception in this case. Land of the Rising Sun is a incredibly famous alternative name and as a result should be covered. Canterbury Tail   talk  14:56, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That's reasonable by me. I am fine with the current one sentence description as well.--BukitBintang8888 (talk) 13:36, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Japan
I noticed that most infoboxes have the formal name of a state translated as well, but Japan is persistently referred to as solely as Japan. Shouldn't the infobox read "State of Japan" instead? --190.141.154.66 (talk) 03:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Japan's official and formal name in English is Japan. State of Japan is an unofficial direct translation of it's Japanese name. 115.66.203.56 (talk) 21:16, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 February 2018
240F:18:84CE:1:BDE6:1E33:F0D1:D64A (talk) 08:39, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ChamithN   (talk)  08:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Infrastructre - Transportation
In the Transportation Section, on the right side, it has an image of the L0 Maglev (Magnetic Levitation) train. the caption says "A JR Central L0 Series shinkansen (bullet train)". Although, The L0 Maglev train is not an shinkansen. Please change "shinkansen" to "bullet train", "maglev train", or anything that represents the L0 maglev train.
 * ✅ for the sake of clarity. And, by the way, "bullet train" is how "shinkansen" is colloquially known in English, so there's no point in changing the caption from "shikansen" to "bullet train". - ChamithN   (talk)  12:46, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2018
As of 2018, Japan does not have the 3rd largest economy by nominal GDP, it has the 4th. Additionally, Japan does not have the 4th largest economy by purchasing power parity, it has the 5th. This is represented on the nominal GDP wiki page and the purchasing power parity wiki page, making the Japan wiki page inconsistent. Please change "The country has the world's third-largest economy by nominal GDP and the world's fourth-largest economy by purchasing power parity" to "The country has the world's fourth-largest economy by nominal GDP and the world's fifth-largest economy by purchasing power parity."Parkiedoodle (talk) 19:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 19:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

28 people have babies there every 10 minutes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.231.82 (talk) 05:20, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2018
2.50.28.120 (talk) 08:55, 19 April 2018 (UTC) Square watermelons are grown by japanese farmers for easier stack and store.In japan,90% of mobile phones are waterproof because youngsters use them even in the shower.


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. AntiCedros (talk) 09:11, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Section of agriculture should have uploaded data.
The section should have updated data, shown in bold.

The Japanese agricultural sector accounts for about 0.97% of the total country's GDP. Only 12% of Japan's land is suitable for cultivation.[149][150] Due to this lack of arable land, a system of terraces is used to farm in small areas.[151] This results in one of the world's highest levels of crop yields per unit area, with an overall agricultural self-sufficiency rate of about 68% by output value on fewer than 56,000 square kilometres (14,000,000 acres) cultivated.

Japan's small agricultural sector, however, is also highly subsidized and protected, with government regulations that favor small-scale cultivation instead of large-scale agriculture as practiced in North America.[149] There has been a growing concern about farming as the current farmers are aging with a difficult time finding successors.[152]

Rice accounts for almost all of Japan's cereal production.[153] Japan is the second-largest agricultural product importer in the world.[153] Rice, the most protected crop, is subject to tariffs of 777.7%.[150][154]

In 2015, Japan ranked fourth in the world in tonnage of fish caught.[155] Japan captured 1,103,235 metric tons of fish in 2015, down from 4,987,703 tons in 2000, 9,558,615 tons in 1990, 9,864,422 tons in 1980, 8,520,397 tons in 1970, 5,583,796 tons in 1960 and 2,881,855 tons in 1950.[156] In 2003, the total aquaculture production was predicted at 1,301,437 tonnes.[157] In 2010, Japan's total fisheries production was 4,762,469 fish.[158] Offshore fisheries accounted for an average of 50% of the nation's total fish catches in the late 1980s although they experienced repeated ups and downs during that period.

Today, Japan maintains one of the world's largest fishing fleets and accounts for nearly 15% of the global catch,[159] prompting some claims that Japan's fishing is leading to depletion in fish stocks such as tuna.[160] Japan has also sparked controversy by supporting quasi-commercial whaling.[161] Zbttp (talk) 04:44, 12 June 2018 (UTC)12 June 2018

Population section in demography should be updated.
Table on Largest cities or towns in Japan should have the latest data.

1 Tokyo 9,272,565 2 Yokohama 3,726,167 3 Osaka 2,691,742 4 Nagoya 2,296,014 5 Sapporo 1,953,784 6 Fukuoka 1,538,510 7 Kobe 1,537,860 8 Kawasaki 1,475,300 9 Kyoto 1,474,570 10 Saitama 1,264,253 11 Hiroshima 1,194,507 12 Sendai 1,082,185 13 Chiba 972,639 14 Kitakyushu 961,815 15 Sakai 839,891 16 Niigata 810,514 17 Hamamatsu 798,252 18 Kumamoto 741,115 19 Sagamihara 720,914 20 Okayama 719,584

Zbttp (talk) 05:49, 12 June 2018 (UTC)12 June 2018

Ships
The English name for Nihon, "Japan" derives from the word "ships" in reference to a "shipping people" (ref. innernigerklas.textleck.ic.ofform) -Inowen (nlfte) 06:18, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Environment section should be edited.
Environment section says: Current environmental issues include urban air pollution (NOx, suspended particulate matter, and toxics), waste management, water eutrophication, nature conservation, climate change, chemical management and international co-operation for conservation.[87] It should be changed as: Current environmental issues include urban air pollution (NOx, suspended particulate matter, and toxics), waste management, nature conservation, climate change, chemical management, international co-operation for conservation, and lack of maintenance in plantation forests.[87] Eutrophication is not a significant problem in Japan and lack of maintenance in plantation forests is not recognised despite its significance.

Advertising language
Quote Chapter 'Military':

''The 21st century is witnessing a rapid change in global power balance along with globalization. (... long justification bla, why ?? ... ) Japan, including its Self-Defense Forces, has contributed to the maximum extent possible to the efforts to maintain and restore international peace and security, such as UN peacekeeping operations. Building on the ongoing efforts as a peaceful state, the Government of Japan has been making various efforts on its security policy which include: ( .... some facts at east ...) These efforts are made based on the belief that Japan, as a "Proactive Contributor to Peace", needs to contribute more actively to the peace and stability of the region and the international community, while coordinating with other countries including its ally, the United States.''

Come on, guys, what is that ?? Is wikipedia a state run propaganda platform ???

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2018
103.199.26.69 (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D (☎ • ✎) 20:36, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

"Recognised regional languages"
As has been pointed out earlier, the phrase "recognised regional languages" is supposed to refer to languages with some legal recognition and (limited) official use, not "languages that Ethnologue recognizes as existing in the regions". Unless a source can be provided that shows how some or all of the listed languages are recognized on a regional level, the category needs to be deleted. VonPeterhof (talk) 08:27, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2018
Under the last paragraph in climate it says the highest temperature was 105.6. This recently happened but Japan was just hit with a heat wave so the highest recorded was 106. There is also a Wikipedia page on it if you want to link it (2018 Japan Heat Wave) 71.184.20.50 (talk) 12:46, 26 July 2018 (UTC)


 * ✅. See Special:Diff/852143953. Thanks for catching that!-- SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 23:02, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

First paragraph out of place.
Maybe it is my phone and browser, but I doubt it. Upon opening the article, the first paragraph under the title is one about archaeological evidence. It is not an introduction. This paragraph seems out of place and belongs somewhere near the end of the introduction. Chris.alex.gomez (talk) 23:03, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

replace "loose" with "lose" in Foreign relations section of Politics
"causing many peasants to loose their land." should read "causing many peasants to lose their land." Parsec96 (talk) 17:22, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -AntiCedros (talk) 17:36, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Dominant party state?
I’m not sure it’s accurate to call Japan a dominant-party system. A different party held power less than ten years ago, and the LDP isn’t really kept in power through institutional means (formal or informal), but because the opposition genuinely isn’t popular enough to beat them. What do you guys think?Jogarz1921 (talk) 14:36, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree it should be removed, but for slightly different reasons. They government section is for what form of government they are, and dominant party system is too specific (and as said above) can imply institutional means. Garuda28 (talk) 17:10, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Dominant party may be how it goes, but that's not actually the governmental system. Canterbury Tail talk 00:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2018
In the Geography section, can you please change the hatnote of Climate of Japan to Geography of Japan#Climate? 192.107.120.90 (talk) 14:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Random character sequence (talk) 19:07, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

FA concern images
We have a small problem with some images.....as this is an FA article there are some image problems that should be fix as per our MOS.... random one off galleries instead of images being beside relevant text.... and of course the accessibility concern of Squish text. Should we revert to before the images were placed?--Moxy (talk) 23:00, 3 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I've removed some of the excess images. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:25, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Great start.. sandwich of text is a serious accessibility concern...only real problem is 2 galleries.....there is room beside the relevant  text and they should be moved.  Having 2 galleries for subsections gives it undueweight and simply looks out of place considering more important sections don't have them.--Moxy (talk) 00:41, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * lets build consensus before changing established content. The images have moved to other sections. Either we reduce the images and remove the galleries or keep the images and gallery. I support keeping it as it is. However, the community consensus is paramount to both our views. (Highpeaks35 (talk) 01:09, 4 September 2018 (UTC))
 * ec÷2 ✅ all fixed only lost one image that was not mentioned in text anyway. All good....need a bit of sources in other sections....will work on that now....can't loose FA status because of small things.--Moxy (talk) 01:22, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Looks like we now have the Great Wave caption twice? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:04, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * My bad.....fixed. Sorry a bit fustrated.....dealing with image spam in many coutry articles.....last month someone went crazy and add hundreds of images all over the country articles......text sandwich and random out of the blue galleries all over.--Moxy (talk) 02:13, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Not sure why a gallery keeps being added to the food section. It causes format problems for many readers as seen by the pic ...let alone the WP:UNDUE. As an FA article we should follow WP:GALLERY and make sure we don't have accessibility concerns. What if we pic 6 or 9 images and rotate them in 3 random item templates? ......this was the soulution at India a FA  article as seen here....I do think 8 in one is excessive but it does solve all the FA, accessibility,  sandwich of text problems. ... still gets the Picture lovers their images in the article.   -Moxy (talk) 14:11, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2018
Please change "State of Japan" to "Nation of Japan". Reasoning: The kanji for kuni is translated as "nation" or "country" in the present age. Translating it as "state" is archaic. dictionary cited: https://jisho.org/search/%E5%9B%BD%20%23kanji  Walking52 (talk) 01:03, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:32, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

There is no source cited for the claim that 日本国　nihon-koku "literally means state of Japan". So, at the very least, this claim should be erased from the page until one can be provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenskies19 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

The introduction in mobile version
The introduction in the mobile version starts with "Archaeological research indicates that Japan was inhabited as early as the Upper Paleolithic period. The first written mention of Japan is in Chinese history texts from the 1st century AD. Influence from other regions, mainly China, followed by periods of isolation, particularly from Western Europe, has characterized Japan's history." Is there any way to fix this, thanks. SharabSalam (talk) 14:50, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * In other words, it's missing the first paragraph, from "Japan..." to "over 38 million people"...? Ian.thomson (talk) 16:04, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * No, the paragraph, from "Japan..." to over "38 million people" exists but it's not at the beginning. The article starts with "Archaeological research..." paragraph not "Japan..." paragraph. This problem is only in the mobile version, Thanks. SharabSalam (talk) 20:34, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I can't see why it's all meesedup....so metioned this at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical).--Moxy (talk) 20:50, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

European Parliament resolution on relations between the EU, China and Taiwan and security in the Far East 07.07.2005
15. Urges all countries in the Far East to seek bilateral agreements to resolve the outstanding territorial disputes in the region, in particular: a) 	the return to Japan of the 'Northern territories' that were occupied by the then Soviet Union at the end of World War II and are currently occupied by Russia, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.47.169.101 (talk) 18:09, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

BOMBA DE AUMENTAR ROLA
ELES PRECISAM MUITO — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.95.133.188 (talk) 18:35, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Flag in infobox.
The flag of japan consists of a red circle on a white background. Attempting to show this on an infobox which itself has a white background clearly isn't working, since the border, though just about shown, is almost invisible, and leaves the reader wondering what exactly the box is trying to show.. Either the infobox needs fixing (i.e. a background of another colour), or some means of showing the border more clearly is required. 86.133.149.192 (talk) 18:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Well, at least on a PC browser, the background of the infobox is light grey and there is a border around the flag. Seems clear to me, but others may have a different opinion. Canterbury Tail talk 19:14, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh I see someone did an update, that's why it seems clear. Canterbury Tail</b> <i style="color: Blue;">talk</i> 19:15, 15 June 2019 (UTC)


 * This is pretty ugly code for an infobox, but it will work - you can change border colour/width (any html color, width in pixels). You might want an even lighter gray for example. Pinging who was also playing with this. Another option is to create a separate image file just for this usage, with the border in the image - that would only take a few minutes and I'm happy to do it if you all want it and someone pings me. (but I probably won't see any pings until I wake up tomorrow) -- Begoon 19:54, 15 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I think, per Colour contrast that any grey border needs to be fairly dark if it is only a single pixel wide. On a high-resolution screen, a single pixel line is very narrow, and not all screens show subtle differences in contrast very well. Probably better to err on the side of making the border too obvious for some than to make it invisible for others. 86.133.149.192 (talk) 21:01, 15 June 2019 (UTC)


 * EDIT: just noticed that the border has now been revised. Much better. 86.133.149.192 (talk) 21:02, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Law enforcement editions
I have removed the following copy pasting as unsourced and a bit much.....what can we incorporate into the article....or should save ?-- Moxy 🍁 22:24, 8 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The first three paragraphs can be shorter, more summarized. You added a lot of "citation needed", but the related pages Law enforcement in Japan and National Police Agency (Japan) don't have so many references either. The Japanese page 日本 only has references for UN statistics.


 * There should be information about law enforcement on the Japan page. Since almost every page about a country has information about Law enforcement and police/crime, this is basic information that should be added to the Japan page. For example on the United States page it's called "Law enforcement and crime". On the United Kingdom page it's "Law and criminal justice".


 * I was working on the initial version with paragraphs that were a work-in-progress and references of the United Nations statistics and the Special Assault Team. The information is similar to the original on the Japanese page about Japan: 日本. The Japanese version doesn't cite any sources except United Nations crime statistics. So it should also be added to this English language page about Japan. Information from the related pages can be changed to make it more suitable. The current removal of these paragraphs is unfair. So please kindly re-add the useful information. - Artanisen (talk) 22:37, 9 July 2019 (UTC)


 * We would need sources before anything is added back and where this is copy pasted from needs sources aswell.....also would like to point out our FA articles do not have a section of this nature.....it's one of the things we move or summarize iIncorporating into othrts section during the FA review. -- Moxy 🍁 22:56, 8 July 2019 (UTC)


 * I was working on adding the UN references and one source for the Special Assault Team. How can you demand 15 times more sources when the referenced pages don't have that? The referenced pages Law enforcement in Japan and National Public Safety Commission (Japan) were approved without so many references, so your requirement is too stringent. The original Japanese page 日本 does not have sources other than the UN statistics. Why is was it approved on the Japanese language page without so many references? - Artanisen (talk) 23:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)


 * We dont care that where you copy pasted this from has no sources not our problem. The problem is we need sourced here WP:Burden and in fact I think the addition is excessive and needs to be greatly consolidated. FA level article may not be the best place to learn the Wiki ways. ... it may be frustrating.-- Moxy 🍁 23:14, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Your request for 15 times more references is unreasonable given that the referenced pages do not have so many references either. As explained earlier much of that was translated from the Japanese Wiki page. Apparently they don't have such strict reference requirements. For example in the first paragraph you want 4 references, but on the corresponding page there are not 4 references.- Artanisen (talk) 23:19, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok lets start with some basics pls review WP:CIRCULAR... and if you still want to copy paste see WP:TFOLWP. All this has to be done under the umbrella idea of Verifiability. -- Moxy 🍁 23:31, 8 July 2019 (UTC)


 * I've improved the paragraphs with only referenced information. Can we add this to the article? See below: (Artanisen (talk) 00:37, 9 July 2019 (UTC))


 * ✅ great job....let's implement it see what others say.... under "Domestic security".-- Moxy 🍁 03:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for adding that. It would be good to change the level 2 heading "Military" to "Security" then add a level 3 heading for "Military" below that. (Artanisen (talk) 05:07, 9 July 2019 (UTC))

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2019
Change "The country has produced one NBA player, Yuta Tabuse." to "The country has produced 3 NBA players: Yuta Tabuse, Yuta Watanabe and Rui Hachimura.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuta_Watanabe, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rui_Hachimura 160.32.193.101 (talk) 00:04, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done --Trialpears (talk) 17:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

State of Japan
In Italian Wikipedia says the official name of Japan is "State of Japan". Is correct? --Davi Gamer 2017 (talk) 23:50, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes in translation technically right ....but in English with title are articles with the most common name used in literature and what people will most likely  search for. We cover official long forms of country names in the article itself.-- Moxy 🍁 01:01, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for

—240A:6B:1280:23BB:118B:692E:C03A:58B4 (talk) 01:15, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * You haven't said what is wrong with the coordinates in the article. If you think that there is an error, you'll need to provide a clear explanation of what it is. Deor (talk) 19:05, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Sport image
Not sure the image we have are the best...but not sure we need another martial arts one with no description. Any suggestions on how to help the problem?-- Moxy 🍁 04:15, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ... karate is a VERY popular sport globally and very practiced in the country. Good luck finding some help, boy. --Shyobyus (talk) 04:23, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Baseball is more popular within Japan. It's the most popular sport.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 04:26, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Agree I suggest a baseball image with a capton as per MOS:Images. Perhaps hall of fame? ..-- Moxy 🍁 04:29, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Plz stop sabotaging other users and making biased reverts in Japan/Canadian style "counter-Conservative" pages, Z Generation manly boys. --Shyobyus (talk) 04:32, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * And moving forward...what about File:Tokyo Dome-2.jpg that would give us the opportunity to link Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame that lists all the major players.-- Moxy 🍁 04:35, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:UCRN, but can we add kawaii videogames championships? --Shyobyus (talk) 04:41, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Not sure what your saying.....do we have an article on that?-- Moxy 🍁 04:45, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * EDIT:, added quotes for you to understand --Shyobyus (talk) 04:51, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Still not sure what your saying....is English Wikipedia the best place for you?-- Moxy 🍁 04:59, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Updated cover page
The statement "Japan is renowned for its striking art, historical and extensive cinema, influential music industry, manga, anime, video gaming, rich cuisine and its major contributions to science and modern technology." doesn't really sound academic or encyclopedic at best. I would suggest something like "Japan is renown, both historically and contemporaneously, for its art, music, popular culture, cinema, cuisine, technology and science." The reason for this is to reduce bloat and move away from Japan's tight association with "manga, anime and video games" since these are specific niches from the broader "otaku culture" which itself belongs to pop culture anyway. 84.92.62.40 (talk) 16:00, 11 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Wonder how that ended up here. It is mostly WP:Peacock, and the sources given actually refer to life expectancy and belong with the previous statement. Neither is there any reason why these would be considered the most important parts of Japanese culture. If you take away the peacock terms, the sentence is essentially reduced to nothing, so I'll just remove the whole thing. Averell (talk) 18:31, 18 November 2019 (UTC) Somebody deleted my fact and I want someone to reply to this massege please

Flag in infobox II
Six months ago, the flag file used in the infobox was changed to following this talk page discussion.

I reverted this change today because I believe that it is misleading about the design of the flag. As mentioned in that discussion, the infoboxcountry template already includes a thin border, which I believe is sufficient for separating the flag from the light gray background without compromising accuracy.

This revision is an example of an HTML border, which accomplishes the same purpose in what I believe is a better way. I am not personally in favor of any additional border, but I wanted to start a discussion on the topic. — Goszei (talk) 01:04, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2020
117.237.209.243 (talk) 09:59, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Majavah (t/c) 10:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2020
As stated many times in the previous edits, the official name of Japan is just "Japan", not "State of Japan". "State of Japan" is just a direct translation from the official Japanese name, but not its official name. The whole world, including Japan itself, use "Japan" as an official English name for Japan. 124.122.253.250 (talk) 16:52, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:58, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Name
Do you have any reliable sources stating that the official name of the state in English is "State of Japan"? Many sources, eg UN, list it as "Japan". Nikkimaria (talk) 22:59, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The article for the Constitution of Japan states that the japanese same for its constitution is 日本國憲法, Nihon-Koku Kenpō, with Nihon Koku meaning State of Japan. This name also appears on the picture of the preamble used on top of the article. The etymology-section of Japan has also included this claim since at least 2018 or earlier and there is a wiktionary-article for the term which reads "De facto official name of Japan under the Constitution of Japan (1947-)". This reference also supports Nihon Koku . Your source from the UN, which is not an authority on country names, neglects that Burkina Faso is officially the Republic of Burkina Faso, as well as Libya being the State of Libya, Saint Kitts and Nevis being the Federation of Saint Christopher and Nevis, Turkmenistan being the Republic of Turkmenistan and it is also enough out of date to refer to the Republic of North Macedonia as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. So clearly this UN-source isn't perfect! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 23:49, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * We have talked about this a few times....simply no academic sources for the claim. Just search the term....all you get is wiktionary. Do not support a translation that is not used by English sources..-- Moxy 🍁 00:04, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Never has the Japanese government called its own country in English as "the State of Japan". The State of Japan is a Wikipedia invented Japanese name translation that has never existed in any official government sources or academia. It has been named "Japan" since the time of Douglas MacArthur. The term has similarities to a calque.111.65.70.231 (talk) 06:35, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Mason
Citation number 23 in this article just says "Mason". Does anyone know who Mason is? I can't find any other mention of it in the article. -AsianFire- (talk) 23:06, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Ethnic groups
Why did you regard my editing as possible vandalism? Japan has some ethnic minorities, for example Ainu, Ryukyuan, Nivkh, Orok, Amerasian, and others. So, we should mention about them. I'm sure it's not possible vandalism. Jin0508 (talk) 01:16, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The only issue I see is that it makes the infobox too wide.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 01:22, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply. I understand the reason. So, should I make it compact? Jin0508 (talk) 02:24, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It is a WP:BOLD edit. I reverted again following WP:CYCLE. You should achieve consensus for it here first before adding it again. Your edit is inconsistent with formatting used across countries on Wikipedia. TrailBlzr (talk) 05:09, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you mean. You mean my edit is controversial because the ethnic issues are sensitive topics or it just makes the infobox too wide? Jin0508 (talk) 11:51, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Citation format
I propose to standardize the citation format to use sfn for short cites and the cite family for full references. If there are no objections I will make this change in a few days. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:41, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * No objections here.....can you trim so image spam at the same time!-- Moxy 🍁 13:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I hate those things with a passion, and think they discourage participation. I won't object to you doing it, if you are willing to update this article, but sfns do mean that I am usually less able to help in the cleanup phase, and I fear it could mean less people will participate.  I believe this article has to come to FAR no matter what cleanup occurs, since most of the text is unvetted.  (Unless you are able to get it back to around 7,000 or 8,000 words via summary style.)  If I am the only person who hates sfns, please ignore me and proceed ! Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  15:13, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Sandy, there are relatively few short cites in the article currently - will see if it makes sense to accommodate all refs as full instead. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:17, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I trust your judgment :) Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  15:20, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Currently sitting at just under 10k words after a major cull. Expect the byte count will climb back up as references are added, but will hold off on that for a few days to give time for others to weigh in on citation format. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:10, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the cull; my only complaint is that the article is still over 10,000 words, though 10,000 words was the recommended maximum in WP: Article Size, so it could/should be cut even further. As for the citation format, I favour the system used in Ulysses Grant where the short-form references link to the full citation in the bibliography. Nic T R (talk) 09:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Featured article?
This article is currently ranked as wikipedia's worst featured article, being in more clean up categories than any other. The article is made worse by the addition of an unnecessary sentence sourced to a poor source that does not support the claim it is adjacent to. If this article is not improved, it should be taken to Featured article review. DrKay (talk) 07:58, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The article last passed FAR at 6,000 words of prose; it has since become bloated to almost 14,000 words, so most of the text has not been vetted in a review process. This article should go through FAR even if someone cleans up the error maintenance categories.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  08:10, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I support taking it to FAR as well. I'm sure that there will be some editors at WP:Japan willing to help on such a high-profile article. — Goszei (talk) 05:46, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I still see lots of problems, but I only get one FAR nomination every two weeks, just like everyone else. If you are willing to type up the list of issues, you could submit it to FAR.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  11:26, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

"にっぽん" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect にっぽん. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 22 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 🌸 1.Ayana 🌸 (talk) 10:31, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Questions about the article
Why is there no introduction that Japan is a highly developed country? I think it's better to describe it in the first summary section. Speedman12345 (talk) 14:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the fourth paragraph of the lead covers that. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:58, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Speedman12345 (talk) 15:31, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

However, I still feel that the explanation of a highly developed country is not enough. I feel that it is not a necessary and sufficient condition. Therefore, I think it is better to add the word highly developed country. I just wanted to tell you this. Thank you for everything. See you again. Speedman12345 (talk) 04:04, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Names of Japanese people in English
Japan has officially adopted the policy of using the same word order for Japanese persons’ names as is used in Japanese, i.e. surname first followed by given name.

Checking the use of Chinese and Korean names, I see that the Chinese and Korean system (also surname followed by given names) is very widely adhered to. The only exception I found was ‘Syngman Rhee’, former Korean president. But this usage failed to adhere to any standards of spelling of Hangul words in English as well.

It is time for Wikipedia to follow the standard set by Japan and switch to following the recommended Japanese practice. Ugetsu53 (talk) 05:02, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia. This talk page is for improving this specific page about the nation of Japan.  For all Japanese related articles, a better place for this message would be Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan. Ian.thomson (talk) 05:07, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Ryukyu Disposition & Hokkaido Development Commission
Hello, I tried to add links to Ryūkyū Disposition and Hokkaidō Development Commission - and have just been reverted with the edit summary "trim". Is this history not relevant, contra eg History of Japan, where I amended from "After consolidating its control over Hokkaido and annexing the Ryukyu Kingdom, it next turned its attention to China and Korea" to "After consolidating its control over Hokkaido (through the Hokkaidō Development Commission) and annexing the Ryukyu Kingdom (the "Ryūkyū Disposition"), it next turned its attention to China and Korea." Thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 15:31, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Maculosae tegmine lyncis, because this article is written as a summary of a very broad topic, it's not necessary nor appropriate to include every detail here that is covered in the more specific History of Japan article - the intention is to give an overview here, and allow readers to drill down to more specific articles if wanted. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:55, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Climate change japan
I noticed that people removed climate change japan. I dont get why as it is not anywhere in the article. I think it is important to add it so people will know the governments goals involving climate change and that people will know the effects of climate change in japan.Finn.reports (talk) 07:28, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a personal blog or soapbox for promotion or advocacy. This is one general overview of a country, and that things are covered into body of the article already. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.128.142 (talk • contribs)
 * I dont use it as that and this information is not in the article yet. There is something about environmental issues but not about how the japanese government responds to climate change and what kinda effects it has.Finn.reports (talk) 11:52, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * As this is a broad summary article, we can't cover there is to know about everything here. There is already material relevant to climate change in the Environment subsection, and I don't see a strong rationale to add another section that at least partially duplicates that. Would you like to propose a sentence or two to add into the existing Environment section? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I could add just 2 sentences about the goals of the japanese government and 1 sentence of the effects of climate change. And also add the main article of environment climate change in japan after the now already main article of enivornment. Would this be okay?Finn.reports (talk) 14:26, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Could you post here what specific sentences and sources you want to add? Nikkimaria (talk) 22:18, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Japan is the world's fifth largest emitter of carbon dioxide. The Japanese government has pledged to reduce emmisions by 26% in 2030 comparing to 2013 levels and reduce emissions by 80% in 2050.

According to the Environment Ministery heavy rainfall and increasing temperatures have caused several problems in the agricultural industry and other parts of life in japan. Finn.reports (talk) 10:29, 24 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I have made some additions to the article based on your proposal. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:07, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I added some more information. Hopefully it is good now.Finn.reports (talk) 13:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2020
ADD: Most of the critical questions regarding how to interpret Article 9 emerged in the first Diet debates of 1952-54 over the creation of Japan’s postwar military.(Nishi.2018) Even though Japan had to confide in the rules of Article 9 which stated that Japan can not declare war, they were still able to practice self-defense. As their politicians argued that every nation had a right to defend oneself. (Smith, 2019) Japan’s existing defense policy was made in the 1950s with the signing of the bilateral US–Japan security treaty in 1951, the establishment of the Self-Defense Forces (SDF) in 1954, and adoption of the Basic Policy on National Defense by the National Defense Council and the cabinet in May 1957.(Smith, 2019) Both the NDPO and the Defense Guidelines survived the end of the Cold War and  would not be revised until the breakdown of the Cold War system.(Smith, 2019 The NDPO was revised in November 1995, emphasizing the importance of international cooperation, including military cooperation. The Abe Cabinet has motioned in 2014 to reinterpret Article 9 so that the SDF would be allowed to operate with and alongside the other national militaries. (Smith, 2019) In 2019 Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party has pushed to build a greater military that is self-reliant.  There is ongoing debates about Article 9 as people question why it has never been revised.(Smith, 2019)

Westernization and Mindset of Japanese Military: From the 1950’s, Japan aimed to have one of the strongest militaries in the world. Their mindsets were altered and they started to maintain a mindset in which defense was unacceptable. When they were pushed to the brink of defeat and had no other choice, they were ordered to launch counter attacks however they could (Ford, 2009). A lot of their military mindset was due to the new ideas of Western culture and Westernization that was becoming popular in East Asia. From around the time of the Pacific War, it became a high priority for Japan to train their troops and officers with Western techniques. From their uniforms to their technology, the Japanese military underwent mass amounts of change (Smith, 1976). As a result of Westernization of their military forces, promotion of how they modernized cultural change took place. And the growth of their military starting in the 19th century promoted urbanization for many years after. Military modernization also propelled music, drama, literature, the arts, and most popular culture. Most importantly, the living standards and health care improved for the common people, and those who were once known as “disadvantaged” people could join the military – which boosted their numbers and the war effort (Smith, 1976).

Bibliography

Ford, D. (2009). US Assessments of Japanese Ground Warfare Tactics and the Army's 			Campaigns in the Pacific Theatres, 1943–1945: Lessons Learned and Methods Applied. War in History,16(3), 325-358. Retrieved October 8, 2020, from 					http://www.jstor.org/stable/26070693 Nishi, M. (2018). Reflections of a practitioner: Strategic adaptation in Japan since the 1970s. International Affairs, 94(4), 905-909. doi:10.1093/ia/iiy056 Smith, R. (1976). REFLECTIONS ON THE COMPARATIVE STUDY OF MODERNIZATION 		IN CHINA AND JAPAN: MILITARY ASPECTS. Journal of the Hong Kong Branch of 		the Royal Asiatic Society, 16, 12-24. Retrieved October 8, 2020, from 				http://www.jstor.org/stable/23886743

Smith, S. A. (2019). Rhetoric and Realism: The First Diet Debates on Japan’s Military Power. Columbia Journal of Asian Law, 33(1), 64-83.doi.org/10.7916/cjal.v33i1.5452 Calagao (talk) 00:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. This is apparently WP:UNDUE and WP:COATRACKing.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:13, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

on edit reversion
Thank you for this input. I actually cited four sources regarding the matter, all of which are specific and verifiable, as all have been published by reliable institutions. But if your concern is that there should only be one specific source, I'm fine with that as well, since just one is enough to back the reverted statement. PCommission (talk) 11:33, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * PCommission, I looked at the sources you provided, but they were not specific enough to allow verification. What specific chapters or pages from those sources do you believe support the content you want to add? Nikkimaria (talk) 11:39, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * All of those sources support the statement, but thank you for putting this question out. I also think that a source should be more specific. As to comply with consensus, I propose this edit: Throughout areas colonized by Japan, many abuses were committed against natives, notably those who were forced to become comfort women. PCommission (talk) 11:50, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I would suggest instead the use of the term 'locals' rather than 'natives'. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:13, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that actually sounds better. And thinking about it, some non-natives also became comfort women, so I totally agree. I'll go ahead with the edit. PCommission (talk) 12:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

FYI to everybody: PCommission has been blocked as a sockpuppet. Feel free to revert any of their material per WP:Block evasion (and if you're unsure, keep in mind that the editor is known to push POVs and misrepresent sources). I suggest keeping an eye out for them in the future, as they are a repeat offender. Crossroads -talk- 04:16, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

The founding is problematic.
Obviously, there was an emperor before Emperor Kinmei. It's not like he appeared out of nowhere.

There are sources showing that the Yamato existed before the 500 A.D.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/topics/reference/japanese-monarchy/

https://www.britannica.com/place/Japan/The-Yayoi-period-c-300-bce-c-250-ce#ref276120

I found some sources claiming that the Yamato clan was once the Yamatai and first arrived around 250 A.D. From this book here.

CycoMa (talk) 16:17, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * What change specifically are you proposing, and what citations support that specific change? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:50, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I think that the date of formation should be removed entirely. It's true that Emperor Kinmei was the first Japanese emperor whose reign dates are universally agreed upon by historians, but that's not the same thing as a date of formation. There were lots of emperors before Kinmei who indisputably existed, such as Emperor Keitai, though the precise dates during which they reigned are disputed. Anyway, nobody except Wikipedia has ever claimed that Japan was "formed" on the obscure year of 539. Japan wasn't formed on a specific known date. However, better possible dates would be either 660 BC, which is the official formation date per Japanese mythology, or 1947, when the current constitution of Japan came into effect. I'm fine with either of those dates, or else removing the date entirely. Tikisim (talk) 20:44, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I think using 3 dates works well to paint a short picture for the infobox: the start of the feudal era in 1192, the Meiji Restoration in 1890, and the post-war era in 1947. Evidently, there isn't a suitable date for the first emperor (Jimmu in 660 BC is legendary, and Kinmei as the first verifiable in 537 is fairly meaningless). At the very least, I think that 1890 and 1947 should stay in the infobox, because they are the most important to the formation of "modern Japan", and listing constitution dates is in line with other country articles. — Goszei (talk) 01:47, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm okay with listing those two dates. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:56, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

I can understand mentioning the most vital parts in the country’s history. But it’s unfair to say the country was founded around 1000 AD or founded around 500 AD.

Because we have good evidence of the imperial family and even the Yamato clan ruled before those dates. Sources for the Yamato go back as far as 200 AD to 300 AD.

Maybe the founding should mention the mythical founding and mention the oldest reliable evidence of the Yamato’s existence or ruling. It doesn’t have to be an exact date. Maybe say 300 AD.

Sources here.

https://books.google.com/books?id=1RcFEAAAQBAJ&newbks=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PT80&dq=Yamato+clan+history&hl=en&source=newbks_fb#v=onepage&q=Yamato%20clan%20history&f=false

https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_History_of_World_Societies_Value_Editi/5js9DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Yamato+clan+history&pg=PT76&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Voyages_in_World_History/VckaCgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Yamato+clan+history&pg=PA238&printsec=frontcover

CycoMa (talk) 05:28, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: the field doesn't say "founding", it says "formation". An event can be formative without being foundational. — Goszei (talk) 05:39, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I suppose but mentioning the oldest evidence of the country’s existence or mentioning when historians speculate it was formed. Seems a good course of action. CycoMa (talk) 05:46, 1 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I have added back the dates for the legendary founding and the Meiji restoration, as both are considered important to Japanese history. Reasons: The founding is ahistoric (and I have referred to it as such) but is a national celebration in the country. The Meiji Restoration's importance is self -evident. User:WoodElf 09:44, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * And I've reverted. As discussed above, this date is problematic in terms of calling it "foundational". Its importance as a national celebration should be discussed in the body. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:50, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Best avoid fairytale dates in the infobox.-- Moxy 🍁 13:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * There are two dates under discussion: a. The date of the Meiji restoration: This is considered the premier founding event of modern Japan, so I think this date should definitely be included. b. The legendary founding date by Emperor Jimmu: The date is only "problematic" if we consider it to be history. As I clearly marked it as "legendary founding", it is clearly not intended to be considered historical. However, it forms the basis of the nation's self-identity and is considered a significant date, hence the aforementioned national celebration. A fairy-tale date may be included if it forms part of the nation-forming narrative, imho. User:WoodElf 16:16, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The Meiji constitution is included; the disputed date is the legendary founding, which again, I think is better contextualized in the text. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:26, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree..the celebration of the mythical founding of Japan needs to be explained and the info box is not the place for details.-- Moxy 🍁 01:47, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Editing details
Can I edit the some trivial parts (like sentence structure) of the preface? If my editing is too much, please use the view history to restore it to its previous state. One&#61;Bright (talk) 10:52, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * While your account is still new you can request specific changes here on this talk page on the form "Please change X to Y". – Thjarkur (talk) 13:18, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Uhh no that’s not how this works. Just meet the minimum requirements it’s not hard. FluffSquad (talk) 19:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Formation Date should Include First Imperial Rule and First Shogunate

 * 1) In the infobox the earliest formation date says "First constitution: November 29, 1890". However, when using historical references, Japan was historically already a country since the Nara period. The first permanent Imperial capital was established in Heijō-kyō or Nara, in 710 CE (one of the earliest verified imperial rule). Afterward in 1192, during the Kamakura period, the first Shōgun Minamoto no Yoritomo usurped power from the historical Emperor (e.g. Emperor Go-Toba) and established a military government with the Kamakura Shogunate. These dates are very significant in history and should be included.
 * 2) (As for imperial rule, it's possible to go back further in time with the Yamato dynasty, but the Nara period and the imperial capital Heijō-kyō, Nara are more important historical achievements.)
 * 3) By comparison, China has in the Infobox: Formation = First pre-imperial dynasty - c. 2070 BCE. First imperial dynasty - 221 BCE. The Thailand infobox has the Sukhothai Kingdom 1238–1448 as the earliest formation date. The Vietnam infobox has Formation = First royal dynasty - c. 7th century BC, Kingdom of Nam Việt - 204 BC. So it should also be included on the infobox of Japan. - Artanisen (talk) 01:25, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Artanisen, see the discussion above. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:38, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion does not include earlier historical dates of the formation. It's misleading to only include the date of the first constitution. Many other Asian countries pages also mention the first kingdom or first imperial rule in the infobox. - Artanisen (talk) 02:46, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * There are many dates that could potentially be included, but they are better expanded on in the article body rather than having them all shoehorned in here. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:53, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I completely disagree. As shown above, the pages about Thailand, China, Vietnam and South-Korea (Korea), include the dates of the first kingdom or dynasty in the Infobox. Those country pages have multiple important dates about the formation so it should be listed. It is insulting to only display the Constitution (1890) in the Infobox, because that is an incomplete depiction of history. - Artanisen (talk) 03:04, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * As I've said, we can't expect to include every potential date here, since there are multiple others that could be used. Alternatively we could take all the dates out of the infobox and just let it all be explained in the body, rather than arguing about it every few weeks. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:11, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * As I stated, it is absolutely insulting to only include the date of hte constitution in the formation, because that is a false depiction of history. Your argument that other important historical dates don't fit in the Infobox is false, because Thailand, China, Vietnam and South-Korea and many other Asian countries also list the first kingdom or dynasty in the Formation. -Artanisen (talk) 03:14, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The infobox is not meant to show history, but the status/formation of the polity in question (in this case the Japanese state). A discussion about that can be had about what that means, but other pages of worse quality are not good examples. CMD (talk) 03:15, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The formation of the polity the first historical date is in the Nara period with the first permanent Imperial capital was established in Heijō-kyō, Nara and thereafter the Kamakura period (Kamakura Shogunate). Those other pages are not of worse quality either. They fairly show important historical dates of the formation of the country. Another example France infobox has: Reign of Clovis I as King of the Franks 500 CE. Russia has in the infobox = Novgorod built - c. 862, Kievan Rus' - 879, Duchy of Moscow - 1283. Spain's infobox has = De facto - 20 January 1479, De jure - 9 June 1715. Egypt has in the infobox = Unification of [[Upper and Lower Egypt|Upper

and Lower Egypt]] - c. 3150 BC. Poland's infobox has = Christianization of Poland - 14 April 966, Kingdom of Poland - 18 April 1025. -Artanisen (talk) 03:17, 22 December 2020 (UTC)