Talk:Japanese clock

"Balance Wheel" rendering
I have changed the Japanese rendering of "balance wheel" from the older form 天桴 to the more modern and more commonly used form 天符, which is how it appears in the Japanese Wikipedia article.Grammarian3.14159265359 (talk) 11:14, 21 August 2017 (UTC) Grammarian3.14159265359 (talk) 11:12, 21 August 2017 (UTC)Grammarian3.14159265359Grammarian3.14159265359 (talk) 11:12, 21 August 2017 (UTC)|Grammarian3.14159265359]] (talk) 11:10, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposal to split off Traditional Japanese Time into own entry
I propose breaking out the subsection on Japanese Time and use it as a stub for a fuller article on traditional Japanese (and Chinese) hours of the day, and focus this article on the clocks themselves and their attempt to achieve the fascinating technical/engineering feat of tracking the uneven hours of Japanese Time.

Arguments for:

 * 1) This entry on Japanese Clock focuses on the clocks themselves. I question how many people consider time of day to be a topic about clocks.
 * 2) Japanese Time is explained somewhat in passing, but not fully. For example, how are Hour of the Rabbit and Hour of the Bird (or Cock) defined? How do the hours adjust during the seasons to accommodate longer days in summer and shorter days in winter?
 * 3) Japanese hours as an entry fills a gap in coverage of Japanese time and measurement. We have pages for the Earthly Branches, the [Sexegenary Cycle], the Lunisolar calendar, the Japanese Calendar, the Japanese era name, the List of Japanese era names, Japanese units of measurement, but nothing that explains the hours, why the exist, or how they work.

Considerations:

 * 1) Balkanization of information. I do not believe this would be an issue. This proposed article could link to the Japanese clock, as well as to the Lunisolar Calendar, the Sexegenary Cycle, and other pages explaining concepts of Japanese time.
 * 2) Japanese-specificity. This could be broader as a Japanese and Chinese hours topic, with subsections.
 * 3) Improve the attitude, please!
 * "The isolationist period meant that Japanese clockmakers would have to find their own way without significant further inputs from Western developments in clockmaking."
 * The Swiss had to isolate themselves in order to make their watches and clocks, too. You have to sit in a workshop, and not be bothered or disturbed by others, in order to build something delicate and technical like a timepiece. It's all highly proprietary, and they had plenty of guards to put their competitors out of business, too. 24.237.158.224 (talk) 01:00, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Sources:

 * 1) * — which has a clear description in Appendix 3.


 * The Appendix 3 of the above work is clear but very superficial one-page description of timekeeping. Here's everything it says about the subdivisions of a day: "The day was divided into twelve hours, named after the zodiacal sign, each approximately 120 minutes long. The day began at midnight with the Hour of the Rat (11 p.m.–1 a.m.), and proceeded through the zodiac cycle to end with the Hour of the Boar (9–11 p.m.).  Noon was at the Hour of the Horse."

- Meredith McKinney Note that this describes the timekeeping in Heian period which is basically identical to pre-Song Chinese, not the much later (adopted in Tenpō calendar, although Japanese Wikipedia says it was in use since Muromachi period) temporal system used in wadokei described here, although those still had earthly branches on their faces in addition to numerals. –MwGamera (talk) 14:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I certainly would not object. but I would keep much of the current information here as well, if only because it explains the problem being solved. I recently linked the page Ushitora Gongyo to this one because the explanation of the hours was here.  A lot of historical explanation would be better dealt with elsewhere.  The info presented here is mostly to enable people to read the dials. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 14:08, 31 July 2021 (UTC)