Talk:Japanese ironclad Kōtetsu

Discussions 2004-2007
Look at http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/japan/japsh-a/azuma.htm for an assortment of much better pictures. Stan 23:28, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Indeed. I took the opportunity to upload a higher-resolution version of the picture used here. Gdr 23:50, 2004 Nov 2 (UTC)

".. surprise night abordage by the rebel Kaiten, essentially thanks .. "

abordage points to an empty stub. What does the term mean? Kaiten points to ??WWII?? suicide torpedoes. From the context this seems to be unlikely to be related. I assume this section describes a night attack by some sort of "special forces" group since on board Gattling guns are credited with sucessful defence. This is far from certain from the explanation. I have no basis to resolve the uncertainty, and have thus made no change to the published article.


 * Of course, you're right. Article on the "Japanese warship Kaiten" coming up soon. PHG 12:52, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Should this be merged with the entry for the CSS Stonewall? They are, after all the same ship, and with, to be entirely honest, not a complicated enough (or long enough) history to make the combined entry unwieldy.

I could do it... LordAmeth 05:31, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree that they should be merged, as a lot of the information on these articles is pretty redundant. RMG 22:07, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've merged the two. There really wasn't much on the CSS Stonewall page anyway. LordAmeth 12:52, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

'Moved from my Talk Page. It is more relevant here.' Hello Msr iaidoka! I am very interested by any information you may have on the Cuban purchase and the Danish proceedings around the Kotetsu. Could you put the information in the article, with references if possible (we cannot just put up the flags with no information in the article itself). Looking forward to the information. Best regards PHG 10:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

PGH, I am working on that now. The Cuban information should be up now. I should have the Danish information posted by tomorrow. msr_iaidoka 0651, 15 April 2007 (EDT) UPDATE: Just checked my sources. Despite having flown Danish colors it appears that the vessel was never officially added to the lists. So the vessel was de facto a Danish vessel through its flying of Danish colors and christening with a Danish name, though not de jure. Would you say this warrants a Danish flag on the profile? msr_iaidoka 0702, 15 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Thank you for your great addition of information! PHG 14:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

At least one contemporary image shows the Azuma flying the "meatball" http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h02000/h02906.jpg (the bow flag shows a faded "meatball" http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h86000/h86930.jpg (retouched) msr_iaidoka 1937, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

gatling guns
Shoudent the gatling guns be listed under armanet.Nhog — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nhog (talk • contribs) 18:39, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Details
Reading the article, some bits seem unaddressed:


 * 1) the infobox says it was scrapped in 1888, but the article cuts off after its success in the Japanese war a few decades before. What happened after that, and why was it scrapped?
 * 2) the Union paid $16k to Cuba to get it, but then apparently sold it to Japan for $40k ($30k + $10k if I'm reading it right). Why did Japan pay more than twice as much as the Union? Did the Union get a big discount from the Cubans or were the Japanese that desperate for an iron-clad or just bad bargainers, or what?

A little more detail on the rationale of involved actors would make the account more logical. --Gwern (contribs) 17:45 18 January 2015 (GMT) The InfoBox States that the Main Gun is a 300 pdr Armstrong?! Yet the only source online (https://books.google.com/books?id=68uU_1PqcKYC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=300+pdr+armstrong&source=bl&ots=R92oTNKoVm&sig=ACfU3U2-KUx9pLpugAJZFBc87vyEtK2cWA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjIraSfx4jgAhVCON8KHRM8CH0Q6AEwDHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=300%20pdr%20armstrong&f=false) I could find of such a giant was of 1-2 test models that were never sold, as they had the same issues of the mass produced (9-110pdr) Armstrongs (blowing out the vent piece) If any more info can be found, should an Article on the 300lb be created?69.204.81.15 (talk) 09:27, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:26, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 * AzumaColorized.jpg

Arman Brothers
There were no any Arman Brothers (L’Arman Frères)

The ships were ordered by Lucien Arman (officially Jean-Lucien Arman) He has only one sister Sophie.

L.Arman and Mazeline et Cie merged on 14.12.64 to Société Anonyme des Chantiers et Ateliers de l'Ocean (Stock Company). And that company delivered the ship. Ottmarshart (talk) 19:22, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Cite?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:29, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That comes from early editions of Gröner "Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe"
 * Sources
 * 1) Le Monde illustré 8 Oct 1864
 * 2) Le Monde illustré 17 Sept 1864
 * 3) Hubert Coureau "Courau. historie, portraits de famille" Paris 1977 Privat publication
 * 4) Alain Clouet "Lucien Arman, un constructeur de navires à Bordeaux au XIXe siècle." 2019 Privat publication
 * Lucien father Jean Arman (+1846) married Adele Courau (1793-1818)
 * Courau was a Familly with long Shipbuilding traditions. (see 3 and 4 above)

More you could find there Thema: Lucien Arman und die deutsche Flotte https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,23615.0.html

Ottmarshart (talk) 22:51, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

PS vs HP
The given engine power as 1200 PS (Pferdestärke = Horse Power) is metric horse power.

1200 PS was never measured, In early 1872 per Order of the Admirality, all German ships received their metric horse power values replacing used nominal horse power.So PRINZ ADALBERT was given 1200 PS. So it is a fiction, as a ratio ihp/nhp could be from 2 to 5. The only known power of SPHINX is 300 nominal horse power.

You heve to write English text metric HP or HP(M).

Ottmarshart (talk) 22:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC)