Talk:Jared Fogle/Archive 1

Clarification
The article says: "It is worth noting that during this time he also began walking to all of his classes on campus."

He /began/ walking... what did he do before!?
 * According to the story, took the bus. Jake b 00:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe he had one of this riding scooters... Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 05:13, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Jared Fogle was recently stabbed in the eye, and now wears a glass eye. I was going to put this in, but it is unconfirmed --XxNeXuSxX 03:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Give me a break. Please go away. Jake b 00:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I heard this too, but I can't find a source.

Does Jared work for Subway or for SFAFT which is the advertising trust fund owned by the franchisees see also http://adage.com/article.php?article_id=108782 Eeeddd 23:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Calories
A 1000 calorie diet is actually 1000 kilocalories, so it would be 4,184,000 joules. See Calorie Zig 22:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but in terms of nutrition, "calorie" is used to refer to kilocalorie. Nik42 08:54, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Same kind of banality that plagues the idea of 'weight' versus 'mass'. Piepants 18:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)Piepants

Who Wrote This?
The whole thing sounds like a Subway press release... Jake b 00:13, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

- That's what I'm saying. I remember an earlier version of this article that seemed more neutral or at least had a criticisms section.


 * Given that the entire article is now referenced from one book which appears to be a loose collection of anecdotes based on asking, wait for it... the subjects themselves, it's one step away from an autobiography, with all the usual revisionist fantasies that involves. The only reason I'm not going to flag the article as unreferenced bullshit is that the best way to deal with Jereds is to simply ignore them. I say let Subway and their meat puppet just fade into obscurity. Rogerborg 22:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Jared will never fade away into obscurity. His fame has already been set in stone. --99.181.115.165 (talk) 10:51, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Autobiography Notice
I removed the NPOV and Autobiography notices because there is no real evidence that Mr. Fogle wrote the article, and there has been no discussion of that or the NPOV issue. I think it's possible that someone in the Subway PR department is responsible for this artical, but that's just speculation. I do think the article needs work, but Mr. Fogle is in fact a part of popular culture (no comment on that...)... Jake b 23:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure Jared didn't write the article. Otherwise it would have things about him other than subway. Doesn't sound like NPOV problems. Just lack of info on him so all that shows up here is Subway stuff making it sound like a press release. It's too poorly written to be professional. Ahimsa52

1000 'calories' a day?
Is that safe? Piepants 18:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)Piepants

Its not preferred. But for most folks its safe for a while. The PSMF is around 600 kcals a day
 * It's not bad for some people. For me to lose any weight at all, I'd have consume 1000 calories or less (with exercise) as only 1,200 a day keeps me at my current weight. However, for Jared, it was likely not very healthy given his original weight and height. Then again, nor is losing that much weight in four months. --pIrish 20:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Recently?
Fogle, who is Jewish, recently spoke at the grand opening of the first Kosher Subway in Cleveland. - when was recently? Was it recently two years ago; is it still recently? We need a source and a precise date. 83.233.84.90 01:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * According to PrWeb, http://www.pr.com/press-release/13250, it happened on or about June 06, 2006. Jake b 02:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Jared's Religion...
... is noted in the infobox as "Judaism". But Jared spoke at the opening of the first Kosher Subway, meaning he was eating non-kosher Subways all the time before that. So is it correct to say he practices Judaism? --Jquarry 02:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm no expert, but I know many Jewish people who don't keep kosher. Like any religion, there's a wide range of orthodoxy in Judaism. -Kubigula (ave) 04:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean he's Jewish or not. I'm removing the category and description until we can get a source. 98.198.83.12 (talk) 03:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I assume he's reform or non-practicing. I used to eat lunch with him in high school, and he never mentioned anything about it, unlike many Jews I knew at the time.--Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 14:23, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Family details
I hardly think the names of Jared Fogle's parents, marital status, and the name of his ex-wife are notable enough to be included in this article. His parents and ex-wife are not notable, nor is their influence on the aspect of his life for which he's included. It seems like an unwarranted invasion of privacy. A birth year should suffice (i.e. I'm deleting that section) Unigolyn 01:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * While I agree that the names of his parents and ex-wife should not be included in the article, I think his marital status should be there. It's basic biographical information and is therefore appropriate for a biography. --Ddawn23 07:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Jared in pop culture
I thinned out the section on pop culture for several reasons--An interview (like in Super Size Me) is not popular culture. A person is ridiculed or lampooned; a work is parodied. The plots of television episodes that mention Fogle are not biographic and belong in the articles of the respective shows or episodes. When I finished the section only had one item, so I moved it to a more general section. --Ddawn23 07:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Birthdate?
According to this page, his birthdate is December 1st, 1977, but the Wikiquote page says he was born in August of 1978... Can somebody correct this? DocRocks1 04:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Q&A on Washingtonpost.com says he was 22 in March 1998, which suggests that neither date is correct.-- Kubigula (talk) 04:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Loose skin/body shaping
Does anyone know if Jared suffered from the loose skin syndrome that seems to affect many people who lose large amounts of weight? The online chat he gave with the Washington Post is ambiguous on this score. Peter1968 12:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

WP BIO
The following is a quote from WP:BIO

We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high quality references. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons — whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable — should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion, from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space.

This is why certain statements are being removed from the article and it's associated talk page. Please do not reintroduce them until you have read, and understand, the policy of WP:BIO. Thank you.

Sea photo Talk 18:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Death?
can anyone confirm or deny this website? http://jaredremembered.com/ aparently it claims that jared died yesterday... Bmc152006 (talk) 18:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Kevin Rose (from Digg) made a Tweet about it today 63.139.40.34 (talk) 19:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The "Jared is dead" claims have been on the net for years see http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/subway.asp for more information. Because of his high visibility, his death would be reported on traditional media. This site is yet another prank, not a particularly clever one at that. Sea photo Talk  19:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Kevin Rose has since rescinded the original tweet 63.139.40.34 (talk) 21:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

the whois info for jaredremembered.com goes back to march. that means the site's been around since march 2008. yeah, i'm not buying it. i'll be removing the death, and would like an admin to lock the page for now, if that's possible? Thisdude415 (talk) 00:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

nevermind, someone's already done it. i'll be adding it to my watch list, though. Thisdude415 (talk) 00:42, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

According to the LA Times, his death has been hoaxed more than once. Might be worth mentioning the death hoaxes on his page? -- Narsil (talk) 09:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Can we clean up the rather disjointed statements about his October 2008 demise? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.15.177.41 (talk) 04:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Given the 2015 allegations, I don't think there's any danger of anyone still thinking Fogle is dead. Xrlq (talk) 19:06, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Ad Campaign
I removed some of the more trivial appearances and mentions from this section. There is no reason to document every time Jared shows up on TV or is mentioned - is not noteworthy or for that matter, encyclopedic. Sea photo Talk 19:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Optimus Prime?
"Jared has since changed his name to Optimus Prime." I know someone did this, but I cannot find anything on Jared Fogle doing this, and there is no citation on this statement. Therefore, I am removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.108.120.81 (talk) 02:09, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Good edit. This BLP article is vandalized quite often, so if you see obvious nonsense be bold and remove it. There is no need to justify the action on the talk page unless you have a particular reason to do so. Sea photo Talk  03:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Nah, do make a mention of stuff like this on the talk page, it's totally worth it for the lulz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.108.73.13 (talk) 03:23, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

3RR on Punk'd Appearance
There seems to be a concerted effort to place a reference to Punk'd on this page. For some time, the alleged date was a year after the show was canceled. Since I pointed that out, another anonymous editor has restored it, but with an earlier date. A Google search shows no reference, but I am up against the 3RR rule here. I am open to reasonable proof of such an appearance, but without that WP:BLP applies.-- Sea photo

www.jaredremembered.com is a hoax site, please don't use it to reference his "death"
Maybe if this is in nice bold letters it may have some effect LOL. Reference the LA time article above...Talk 05:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)-- Sea photo Talk 19:41, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from EricT43, 16 June 2010
Edit the phrase "(free of fatening condiments such as mayo and mustard)" to "(free of fattening condiments such as mayonnaise)".

Reasons: a) Correct spelling of "fattening" b)  Use proper name for mayonnaise, instead of the colloquial "mayo" c) Remove mustard because it is not considered a fattening condiment.  It contains no fat and low calories.  See http://www.subway.com/applications/NutritionInfo/nutritionlist.aspx?id=breadtop for nutritional information.  Additionally, the Subway website reports that he did in fact add mustard to his sandwiches:  http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/MenuNutrition/Jared/jaredStats.aspx

EricT43 (talk) 19:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed, mustard is in no way fattening. ✅ Thanks! Spigot  Map  19:33, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Bias
This article is clearly biased in favor of Subway and the ad agency that represents them. For example Jared's weight gain was heavily covered but it's only listed as People magazine, without a link to an article. This is intentional. Add a picture of Jared with recent weight gain, or is that bad for advertising???

Add back the neutrality dispute message or delete the whole article. I believe the article is locked because the authors actively sanitize the content, not because of occasional vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.211.59 (talk) 15:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the history and you'll see it's much more than "occasional" vandalism and a lot of it is potentially very damaging, libel, which is why some revisions have been deleted from the page history. As for it being "actively sanitised", well that's just absurd- the article attracts very little attention from legitimate editors, which is partly why it's protected. However, if you'd like to create an account and log into it, after 4 days and 10 edits, you'll be able to help Wikpedia by improving the article. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   15:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Please, you're embarrassing yourself and discrediting wikipedia. Many history entries complain about ad agency bias. Which one is paying you off to silence everyone legitimately complaining? Shame on you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.211.59 (talk) 08:59, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 99.138.181.76, 29 August 2010
Three requests, all concerning the "Personal life" section:
 * Change ref 6 to the proper Cite web format:


 * Add the following reference to the end of the first sentence of the second paragraph of the section:


 * Tag the second sentence of the second paragraph with:

99.138.181.76 (talk) 01:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅, done and done. Thanks, Stickee (talk)  03:15, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

How do you add this to a page?
What is the format for adding text so that it appears in the edit page but not on the actual article. I've seen it done before to assuage common false edits on other pages, I'm thinking it'll be useful here in stopping people from adding info from the jaredremembered website (which, by the way, links back to the website College Humor) FinalWish (talk) 06:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You can add add invisible text - here is the guide  Sea photo Talk  06:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Franchise is spelled incorrectly
Subway campaign line 4. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madsmadsmads2506 (talk • contribs) 13:01, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

South Park episode
hello. why isn't there any mention of the south park episode 'jared has aides' in this article? 77.8.227.53 (talk) 00:23, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

NPOV
This article has considerable NPOV issues - to be frank it reads like it's been written by a particularly poor recent recruit at an advertising agency. There were a great many claims in there, and few of them with references, or in Wiki style. Does anybody have any thoughts on how this article can be amended? Marty jar (talk) 01:44, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2014
Jared Folge made an short cameo as himself in, Ninos Ricos, Pobres Padres, a Colombian telenovela sponsored by Subway

Ralphbsmart (talk) 02:31, 8 February 2014 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Pictogram voting question.svg|20px]] Do you have a reliable source to back this up? Arjayay (talk) 18:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 19:34, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

North Central High School grad
Fogle graduated from North Central High School (Indianapolis).

Sources:

The Lebanon Reporter: http://www.reporter.net/news/local_news/slideshow-federal-state-agents-raid-home-of-subway-spokesman-jared/article_5907f922-24af-11e5-b30a-d3c7980a2974.html "Fogle graduated from North Central High School in Indianapolis and moved to Bloomington to go to IU…"

Indianapolis Monthly: http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/news-opinion/jared-fogle-business-subway-star/ "And the North Central High School and Indiana University alum still seems enamored with a life that includes meeting two U.S. presidents and hanging with Hollywood A-listers." --12.180.133.18 (talk) 18:06, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

References to the search of his home includes references to being in conjunction with Taylor. The citations DO NOT support this. The feds have said NOTHING, officially or off the record and anything else is speculation at this time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.116.193.115 (talk • contribs)
 * I had proposed that, no one responded. I made the change although your request was not formatted properly. You could have voiced your opinion above also Jadeslair (talk) 23:43, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Subway affiliation
First paragraph should add "former" in front of Subway spokesman ref:  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/07/feds-police-search-home-subway-pitchman-jared-fogle/, http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/07/police-investigation-jared-fogle-subway-pitchman/29808241/ , http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/subway-suspends-relationship-jared-fogle-807206

Current text: Jared Scot Fogle (born December 1, 1977), also known as the Subway Guy, is known as a spokesman for Subway through appearances in the company's advertising campaigns. He gained fame for significant weight loss (now known as the "Subway diet"), attributed to eating Subway sandwiches, which led to his role promoting the company.

Proposed text: Jared Scot Fogle (born December 1, 1977), also known as the Subway Guy, is a former A B C spokesman for Subway through appearances in the company's advertising campaigns. He gained fame for significant weight loss (now known as the "Subway diet"), attributed to eating Subway sandwiches, which led to his role promoting the company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.168.132.23 (talk • contribs)


 * ❌ He was suspended, not fired. That means he could return to his position as spokesman after the suspension.  None of the sources say he is a "former" spokesman.   Marteau (talk) 16:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2015
Eternityky (talk) 07:09, 9 July 2015 (UTC) On July 7th FBI agents led by Indiana's internet Crimes Against Children Task Force raided Fogles home.They confiscated computers, media storage devices, DVDs and documents. One law enforcement officer entered the home with a dog capable of sniffing out micro SD cards, typically used to store photos and videos,Eternityky (talk) 07:09, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 07:34, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
 * He's innocent until proven guilty and this is breaking news, and Wikipedia is not a newspaper, this may blow over, maybe only his friend who ran his foundation is guilty, that doesn't mean Jared is. There are reliable sources but they don't say all that such as dogs sniffing for certain kind of cards. Popish Plot (talk) 15:59, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Current related template request
I certainly can understand why WP:BIO keeps us from publishing details about the recent accusations, but this will be notable guilty or innocent. For now, I feel that posting Current related would be a good compromise. Oldag07 (talk) 18:19, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

"Fogel" to "Fogle" (misspelling)
Two spelling errors in the last bullet point of the "In popular culture" section need to be corrected; both are spelling "Fogle" as "Fogel", which is incorrect.

"Fogel makes a cameo in the 2014 Community episode "Basic Story". When Greendale Community College is purchased by Subway to be converted into Subway University, Fogel arrives to inspect the facilities."

should be

"Fogle makes a cameo in the 2014 Community episode "Basic Story". When Greendale Community College is purchased by Subway to be converted into Subway University, Fogle arrives to inspect the facilities."

71.165.73.244 (talk) 10:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ thanks for pointing those out - Arjayay (talk) 12:43, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Uh oh.
I think this page is about to be popular and busy with lots of reverts.  freshacconci  talk to me  13:53, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Yep. I bet it stays very busy over the next few days. Indy (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * certainty, hopefully we can keep it accurate. They news agencies will publish anything to be the "first" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jadeslair (talk • contribs)


 * Per both WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLPCRIME, this is wholly improper at this time. I am not trying to edit war, but I will be removing the bit about the warrant again as it is an obvious BLP violation.  We don't generally even discuss arrests without convictions, why in the name of all that is right would we report this sensationalist crap that we really know nothing about?  We have ONE source, and it is FOX, a source that is frequently considered unreliable.  All the other coverage I see is based on their report.


 * @, just because the foundation was redirected here does not make this article about the foundation. The arrest of the dude is only marginally proper in an article about the foundation. Any copy that does not relate directly to Fogle does not belong here now or ever. If enough info comes out on this that we can use without violating BLP, perhaps you may wish to recreate the article on the Foundation. Until we know more, this should not be in here either.  Most certainly, the names need to come out.  I realize this is your hot issue, but still...innocent until proven guilty, etc..... John from Idegon (talk) 19:45, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * THe foundation name redirects here for convenience of those searching for it. It does not have sufficient notability to warrant its own article and can be adequately covered in this biographical article.--RadioFan (talk) 02:34, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe there's a great deal of leeway given in terms of edit warring when it comes to BLP. So far there's an investigation, nothing more. To suggest anything else in the article, especially labeling the subject in any way to imply guilt is libelous and we can remove it immediately. Since Wikipedia isn't the news we are in no rush to add any info on this situation and can wait until something substantiated appears in reliable sources. I think this discussion and a quick consensus of editors can justify removal of BLP violations without edit warring issues.  freshacconci  talk to me  19:57, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * don't worry about an edit war from me unless someone goes on a wild free-for-all. I have not read the articles since earlier but there are already multiple sources. I do not see any that stated he was arrested. The USA today article seems to be the most accurate because they checked with multiple government officials. I do not see any connection to the foundation, it probably should not have been added to that section (yet, depends on how it all rolls out). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jadeslair (talk • contribs)


 * This page is going to be crazy enough. Please, please sign your posts by typing four tildes at the end ( ~ ). John from Idegon (talk) 20:20, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * And I have posted at WP:RPP requesting full protection until the sources stabilize. John from Idegon (talk) 20:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * John from Idegon, yes, I reverted you, with a followup note. I reverted you because what you removed was not a WP:BLP violation; neither is this bit you opted to remove upon my restoration of the text you cut out. If you think that these aspects are a WP:BLP violation, you are free to query that matter at the WP:BLP noticeboard. I mentioned the Jared Foundation because this is the article that the Jared Foundation is covered in (it doesn't have its own Wikipedia article; nor does it need its own Wikipedia article; WP:Notable and WP:Spinout apply there), and you removed the fact that Russell Taylor, the director of the Jared Foundation, was arrested on child exploitation, possession of child pornography, and voyeurism charges. And the fact that "Fogle severed all ties with Taylor immediatelly following the arrest." Yes, almost all of what you removed belongs in this article. And what do you mean "[you] realize this is [my] hot issue"? What, because I am clear about WP:Child protection, child sexual abuse and pedophilia on my user page? Don't be so presumptuous. This Fogle matter is a hot topic for many people right now. I did not state that Fogle was guilty of possessing child pornography, and neither did the article. In fact, I am likely to take this matter to the WP:BLP noticeboard if you or no one else does. Also, there is no need to WP:Ping me to this talk page, considering that the article/talk page is on my WP:Watchlist. Flyer22 (talk) 20:24, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * That stated, I agree that, per WP:BLPCRIME, the "in connection with a child pornography investigation" part should remain excluded at this time since it can suggest that Fogle was in possession of child pornography. Flyer22 (talk) 20:37, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree, that part (in connection with a child pornography investigation) should not be in there but the raid should be part of the article.Jadeslair (talk) 20:41, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I see that, with this edit, RadioFan restored the name "Russell Taylor"; I'm not sure how I feel about that since WP:BLPCRIME suggests that we don't include the names of relatively unknown people in a case like this. RadioFan also added this material. Flyer22 (talk) 20:48, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Regarding the name bit, I mean WP:BLPNAME; it doesn't suggest that we exclude the name for a case like this. It's the opposite since the name "Russell Taylor" has been reported in various reliable sources in this case. Flyer22 (talk) 20:53, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Russell Taylor is relatively unknown, though; I don't see that we need to mention him by name. Flyer22 (talk) 20:57, 7 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Taylor has been the subject of media reports for months and is linked to Fogle. WP:BLPCRIME does not apply here.  Omitting information about Taylor from this article would be unfair to Fogel as it could imply guilt which is very inappropriate at this point in the investigation.  Should Fogel be charged with a crime, which is has not as of the day the warrant was served, the article can be updated.--RadioFan (talk) 02:43, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * As of Tue evening, Russell Taylor is mentioned in thousands of media reports on the subject. Even before Tuesday's FBI raid, Taylor was the subject of numerous regional media reports on his arrest.   In fact, Taylor, through these charges as well as his position in the foundation could be argued to meet wikipedia's notablity standarrds himself.--RadioFan (talk) 02:50, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * RadioFan, I didn't object to you re-adding information about Russell Taylor; above, I clearly stated that the material should be in the article. I questioned the fact that you re-added his name. Despite Russell Taylor being reported in news media, he is still relatively unknown; by that, I mean I highly doubt that the general public would know who you are talking about if you stated, "Russell Taylor." And, per WP:ONEEVENT, he is not WP:Notable. Flyer22 (talk) 14:19, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

WP:ONEEVENT is a useful guideline in determining whether a person meets notability guidelines for a dedicated article, not mention in another article. The litmus for whether or not a detail, even an individual's name, is appropriate for an article is not whether or not the general public knows who you are talking about. It's references in reliable sources, which has been met here. In the spirit of WP:BIO and its focus on protecting individuals, we should be as specific as possible when writing about the situation Fogel is involved in. --RadioFan (talk) 14:43, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * RadioFan (last time WP:Pinging you to this section because I assume that you will check back here if you want to read replies or that this page is on your WP:Watchlist), I didn't state or intentionally imply that WP:ONEEVENT is a useful guideline in determining whether a person should be mentioned in an article. You stated, "In fact, Taylor, through these charges as well as his position in the foundation could be argued to meet wikipedia's notablity standarrds himself." I argued that, per WP:ONEEVENT, he does not meet WP:Notability. I don't see that he warrants his own Wikipedia article at all. You also stated, "The litmus for whether or not a detail, even an individual's name, is appropriate for an article is not whether or not the general public knows who you are talking about." Well, WP:BLPNAME begins with, "Caution should be applied when identifying individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event." It then goes on to advise whether we should include a name that has not been widely disseminated, and so on, and whether to include a name on the basis of its "publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts" and that this "should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories." John from Idegon having removed the name Russell Taylor before you restored it, WP:BLPCRIME mentioning the aspect of relatively unknown people, and what WP:BLPNAME name states, is why I noted that Russell Taylor is relatively unknown. I also stated, "Regarding the name bit [...] it doesn't suggest that we exclude the name for a case like this. It's the opposite since the name 'Russell Taylor' has been reported in various reliable sources in this case." So I clearly don't see a big problem with including his name. But do I see that we need to mention his name? No. Flyer22 (talk) 15:19, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

I believe, because the foundation is completely related to Jared, it is reasonable to mention the arrest of the employee, the reasons why and their suicide attempt, and that Fogle severed ties. I believe it is more appropriate to hold off on the other extraneous additional information that violate the rules of the site regarding living people. It isn't entirely necessary to include harmful information within hours of it being published. That being said, every single time this information is removed, it is going to be readded by people that dont realize it should not be there. I did not put the information there initially, it was already there, I simply moved it to the section regarding the Foundation (which was an error, I should have removed it), and I made an attempt to balance the information so that is was more neutral.MeropeRiddle (talk) 21:36, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I got his address off the Indiana court records. I pulled up his property from the State GIS I would like to take a screenshot and have the satellite imagery of his Zionsville house added to this article. It's all in the public domain I just need the article unlocked or to give the image to someone that will add it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:804:0:3AA8:604F:6738:25BA:1F43 (talk) 04:54, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Propose
I propose that the article state something similar to what it states now. "On July 7, 2015, FBI and Indiana State Police investigators widened their investigation searching Fogle's Zionsville, Indiana home, removing computers.  Fogle was not arrested at the time. With USA TodayfoxCNN as the sources. Please vote agree, disagree or comment with any appropriate rules. WP:TALKDONTREVERT Note that the current section spells his name wrong Jadeslair (talk) 21:25, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

The article info oz says his employer is Subway. As reported in the reliable source already quoted, they mutually parted ways. Plz fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.170.43.139 (talk) 03:08, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Investigation and charges
If he's going to be serving a sentence of at least 5 years, it won't be in jail, it will be in prison. This should be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.49.221 (talk) 01:53, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed and done.-- Mojo Hand (talk) 03:09, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

17 is the age of consent in New York and 16 in Indiana
17 is the age of consent in New York and 16 in Indiana isn't saying their underage inaccurate? Or at least elaborate on the crimes if the girls were 16 in Indiana and 17 in New York it wouldn't be illegal keep in mind 18 isn't the common age to legally have sex it is 16 in 30 states. Obviously something else occurred that was a crime and those other reasons should be addressed. I think the article should mention 16 is the age of consent in Indiana and 17 in New York. So the the charges were for other reasons and those should be put on the article. I believe because the act was paid for in New York it was illegal because federal law prohibits engagement of commercial sex act with minors. This information should be put in the wiki article https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/19/why-jared-fogles-child-porn-plea-deal-ma. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.99.125.7 (talk • contribs)
 * age of consent is for in-state only. if either party crosses a state line in furtherance of the act, age of consent automatically becomes 18 per the Mann Act.  and even where that doesn't apply, "underage" is still usually linked to 18 -- sentences like "underage but above the age of consent" are not uncommon. 209.172.23.2 (talk) 04:53, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Sex with minors - age 16 or 14?
I think the article should be clearer about the age of the girls involved. There were 16 year olds. That's clear. Anything lower than 16?

The Chicago Tribune article says:

Between 2011 and 2013, Fogle also repeatedly sent text messages to escorts, "soliciting them to provide him with access to minors as young as 14 to 15 years,"

So he asked them to find 14 year olds for him, but I don't see anything saying that he slept with any 14 year olds. And the NBC article is the same:

Witnesses from Florida, Georgia and Washington state told investigators Fogle also allegedly contacted them to have sex with minors as young as 14 and 15.

So would it be right for the intro to say he's pleaded guilty to paying 16 year olds for sex? Gronky (talk) 03:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It should say exactly what he pleads to. according to the NBC article: illicit sexual conduct with a minor and one count of distribution and receipt of child pornography. Jadeslair (talk) 03:30, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Pleas are limited to using the terms of the law. The law he broke is called "sex with a minor", so that's all his plea can say.  Wikipedia isn't his plea, so it doesn't have this restriction.  If he had sex with eight year olds, Wikipedia can say he was put in prison sex with a minor because he had sex with eight year olds.  Or if it was 14 or 16 year olds, Wikipedia can say that. Gronky (talk) 03:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia says whatever the sources say, nothing more. § FreeRangeFrog croak 03:39, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * So, 16 then. (Or sex with 16 year olds, seeking sex with 14 year olds, and receiving porn including children as young as 6 years old. Source for "6": ) Gronky (talk) 03:53, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * the article says the charge and then details about the plea deal, I think the difference should be clear so the reader does not get confused. The plea deals include the age information. Jadeslair (talk) 04:28, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you clarify what you're suggesting be done to the article?
 * What if a part of the intro was changed from:
 * Fogle was investigated for allegedly paying for sex with minors and receiving child pornography
 * to
 * Fogle was investigated for allegedly paying for sex with minors (16 and 17 years old) and receiving child pornography
 * Would that be accurate? Gronky (talk) 04:45, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think something like "Fogle has agreed to a plead guilty to the charges of one count of child pornography and one count of traveling to engage in commercial sexual acts with minors, court documents say he sent text messages to older prostitutes "soliciting them to provide him with access to minors as young as 14 to 15 years" and has viewed child porography with children as young as 6 years of age." Does that  easy to understand?  Jadeslair (talk) 05:21, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's in the right direction. From the sources I read, the allegations about child porn are that he "received" it rather than "viewed" it.  And, why do the numbers 14 and 6 get included but not 16? Gronky (talk) 05:28, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I did not exclude anything on purpose, you may have gone through the articles better than I have. Feel free to be Bold. If there is an issue we can discuss it. Jadeslair (talk) 05:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC)